General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

[Gareth3]

Thanks for the feedback on the Fair Folk NPCs, I'll put some more thought into them.

[meschlum]

I've been reading up on the Fair Folk, and I'm surprised that there aren't any fully statted NPCs anywhere, aside from a couple of generic ones in the core that aren't even named. It strikes me that the game needs some signature Fair Folk NPCs - starting noble characters with names, backstories, and full stats. I'll have a go at making them myself, but I have a copy of questions:

First, four of the castes have an obvious "slot" in the setting: a Warrior from the East, who's part of the Opal Court and the Church of Balor, and so forth. This would save effort, but might come out a little too neat and simplified. So is it worth mixing it up a bit?

Second, what about Grace magic? Do all the characters need spells, oaths, and so on, or can most of them just use their charms? The core NPCs don't have any.

The core Fair Folk aren't eevn valid, anyway. The Errata gets in the way, to begin with. And, more importantly (or not) both of the core Nobles have access to a Charm that does not exist . By the book, Fair Folk cannot protect Creation-born from the Wyld. Or they can do it perfectly, at will, and at no cost. Either way, the Wyld Ward 'Charm' referred to in the core does not exist.


All the courts have (almost) countless numbers of commoner Fair Folk, so you have as many Diplomats, Entertainers, Warriors, and Workers as is convenient. And they all look and behave however the story dictates, because (barring heroic ones) they can't Shape so they exist as props in the Wyld.

There are twelve different sorts of Noble (well, sixteen if you count powerful Nobles, twenty to thirty if you count the Way Grace), so that's a lot more templates to consider - even if many of them are more a matter of mindset than aptitude.

The Raksha are drawn to narratives, and the tales of Creation are remarkably powerful. Thus, Fair Folk who live somewhere for an extended amount of time begin to resemble each other, as their stories interact and feed on one another. Whoever is dominant has a higher impact on the outcome, but they all contribute.

What this means is that the Fair Folk can be as type set or diverse as is convenient, and have perfectly good reasons for being thus. Or even being both at the same time.


The sample NPCs lack Grace Magic, and are incredibly fragile. Sane (er, long living) Fair Folk find that access to Grace Magic is crucial to their survival, and take full advantage of it.

Someone wrote a whole lot about the kinds of things that can be done with Grace Magic, and it may be worth using for inspiration. More to the point, you get the following outlines:

Inward Facing Oneiromancy is extremely cheap, and gives you access to social powers and a few neat tricks - many of which are fairly expensive to use as Charms, while the Oneiromancy is basically free. Enjoy.

Outward Facing Oneiromancy is a bit more expensive, and has two main uses: giving you dice pools that make the GM throw books at you, and turning everyone nearby (where nearby is the current nation) into enthusiastic participants in a re-creation of your favorite MLP epsiode. There are other options, of course, but the core premise of "I say that the current laws of reality are thus" remains.

Adjurations are things you pick up early in your career, and discard later. Almost all the charms you get from Adjurations are easy to get, and once you have them you don't need to commit your (precious few) motes to having them. There are a few outliers for certain specialized builds, but their main long term use is saving ~9 committed motes by giving you an Assumption form for 1 mote rather than 10. Assuming you don't want to have a permanent Assumption (0 motes), that is.

Behemoths are minions. Mostly. They're either copies of yourself with a slightly stronger physical focus, or nightmarishly powerful weapons of large scale war and social domination. As a common third option, they can convey fun powers to the Creation-born (and not you).

Wyld Treasures are placeholders. They do whatever normal artifacts do, barring magical material bonuses (mostly), meaning you can get your favorite 'core' artifacts anyway.

Chancels are new, and come from the Errata. If allowed, you will have one. End of discussion. They let you travel freely through Creation, use Wyld only Charms at will, escape danger with minimal effort, summon infinite wealth and armies... for a 1 dot item.


All that said, a thesis I enjoy asserting is that there are no Sidereals, only Fair Folk (and Zuul). In other words, Grace Magic (and Fair Folk) are so much of a toolbox as is, it's possible to build... many things (no, more than that) with them. And power levels are erratic (they tend to generate a lot of flames when higher tier options are contemplated).

So creating sample Fair Folk is certainly an interesting idea, and I'll be happy to help as opportunity presents itself. Just be warned that the Wyld allows for lots of options...

[Story Time]

...at some point one gives up and decides that all complete and healthy raksha have Way.

[TheCountAlucard]

The core Fair Folk aren't even valid, anyway.

That was something that really disappointed me; when I first saw their section on Fair Folk in the core book, I was left saying, "Is that all?"

Wyld Treasures are placeholders. They do whatever normal artifacts do, barring magical material bonuses (mostly), meaning you can get your favorite 'core' artifacts anyway.

That was something that puzzled me in Graceful Wicked Masques; after all, if you can have conventional artifacts with Artifact, then why did they feel the need to say otherwise in the Scroll of Errata?

[meschlum]

That was something that puzzled me in Graceful Wicked Masques; after all, if you can have conventional artifacts with Artifact, then why did they feel the need to say otherwise in the Scroll of Errata?

Conventional artifacts are boring. Ergo, the Errata says you can have some, but the value of your mundane artifacts must be your Artifact rating in dots, at most.

Thus, no starting with Death at the Root and a powerful 4-dot artifact.

Instead, get Unshaped Ring Transformation, Death At the Root and 4-dot Shaping Armor. Then transform your Wyld treasures into the artifacts you want. If you're in a hurry, apply Soul Carving Artifice, and do it in a single scene.

[Lord Raziere]

Hm, it doesn't seem that Raksha can make actual illusions….they can make good lies, good mind-affecting stuff, but not pure illusions…..

might be worth making a Shaping Stance or a charm to make cool illusions with….hmm...

[Rikandur Azebol]

They all need Dragon King ring, 2 dots, to make illusions.

But Yeah, canonically Raksha suck at making illusions wich seems weird.

[aetherialDawn]

Hm, it doesn't seem that Raksha can make actual illusions….they can make good lies, good mind-affecting stuff, but not pure illusions…..

might be worth making a Shaping Stance or a charm to make cool illusions with….hmm...

This isn't true.
They use a Behemoth which is the illusion - except is is ALSO real. Remember, for Raksha the barrier between 'fake' and 'real' is fairly meaningless. Their illusions can kill you; their reality is false.

[meschlum]

Hm, it doesn't seem that Raksha can make actual illusions….they can make good lies, good mind-affecting stuff, but not pure illusions…..

might be worth making a Shaping Stance or a charm to make cool illusions with….hmm...

Veil of Glamour. Lets you create whatever you want, and have it be more or less real (MDV check, basically), lasting for a fair while if you've done the illusion right. Why bother with false illusions when you can do the real thing?

Gladdening Visage and a few others are Illusion effects, and generally useful if specialized. "I'm not a Raksha", "I'm not alive" and the like.

An Oneiromancy with Fall of Night Shadows the Truth can be, effectively, an extremely potent illusion - it conceals things extremely well, and adds in memory wipes to make sure the deception is consistent. "There is no floor" is fun. "The spiked pit does not exist" is also traditional for manse crawls.

Monstrous Conceit lets you make things that are real for one person. Again, impressive illusion potential, if requiring a little creativity.

Wyld stunts enabled by Style and suitably forged Fantasies (or Translucent Dream Sheathing Technology) make for excellent and versatile illusion material.

[Gareth3]

Huh, I had a post which described some character concepts I had come up with for the Fair Folk NPCs, but it seems to have disappeared. I'll start a new thread once I have a bit more. In the meantime, I'd like at least one of the NPCs to be based on an elf (or "fairy", whatever) from actual mythology. Any suggestions?

[Rikandur Azebol]

The Goodfellow from Shakespear's immortal fairy work. Exalted could use some more satyrs.

[Gareth3]

The Goodfellow from Shakespear's immortal fairy work. Exalted could use some more satyrs.

I like it. He's from "real" mythology too, not just Shakespeare. Although the play is probably the best source for character details.

[Turalisj]

Huh, I had a post which described some character concepts I had come up with for the Fair Folk NPCs, but it seems to have disappeared. I'll start a new thread once I have a bit more. In the meantime, I'd like at least one of the NPCs to be based on an elf (or "fairy", whatever) from actual mythology. Any suggestions?

I would suggest elves from Nordic lore, but Artisan Jadeborn are pretty much them. Same with Nordic dwarves being the other types.

[Yuki Akuma]

Hmm.

What happens when a Fiend learns an out-of-splat charm, then goes all Devil Tiger and changes his anima power? Does he lose all his learned charms? Simply lose the ability to learn new ones?

And could a Devil Tiger who used to be a Fiend keep the Eclipsoid "learn other charms" anima power, or does he have to change it?

[Lord Raziere]

I sometimes wonder this question myself.

The White Wolf Exalted forums are experiencing an unusual period of mellowness due to 2.5 not being out yet, so I think It'll be safe to ask them about it.

I'll go make one over there.

[Lix Lorn]

Hmm.

What happens when a Fiend learns an out-of-splat charm, then goes all Devil Tiger and changes his anima power? Does he lose all his learned charms? Simply lose the ability to learn new ones?

And could a Devil Tiger who used to be a Fiend keep the Eclipsoid "learn other charms" anima power, or does he have to change it?

Not sure. Personally, I'd say he could keep them, but not learn new ones, but I'm sure some STs would convert them to experience.

For the second part, there are two ways to look at this.

One: The Eclipse anima power is OP. Fiends shouldn't get it anyway so it doesn't come up.
Twp: The Eclipse anima power is totally perfectly balanced! You can keep it, but the other parts of your anima have to be on par with the other parts of the Fiend.

[Andreaz]

Hmm.

What happens when a Fiend learns an out-of-splat charm, then goes all Devil Tiger and changes his anima power? Does he lose all his learned charms? Simply lose the ability to learn new ones?

And could a Devil Tiger who used to be a Fiend keep the Eclipsoid "learn other charms" anima power, or does he have to change it?

There's no official answer I know for either question. For the former, my approach is "You get the xp back".

For the latter, the whole thing is literally up to the ST, with no regulation other than what your group deems appropriate.

[Xefas]

What happens when a Fiend learns an out-of-splat charm, then goes all Devil Tiger and changes his anima power? Does he lose all his learned charms? Simply lose the ability to learn new ones?

Just throwing in my two cents, as there's no official answer.

If the out-of-splat Charm was something interesting that you used regularly and had a defining role for your character over the course of their adventures, then it gets converted to XP... but since it was such an important part of you, you could totally innovate a similar Primordial-tier charm in your own Primordial charm set, and spend the converted XP on that.

If the out-of-splat Charm was something boring and inconsequential, then who the hell cares, and why did you spend 16xp on it?

[Yuki Akuma]

Just throwing in my two cents, as there's no official answer.

If the out-of-splat Charm was something interesting that you used regularly and had a defining role for your character over the course of their adventures, then it gets converted to XP... but since it was such an important part of you, you could totally innovate a similar Primordial-tier charm in your own Primordial charm set, and spend the converted XP on that.

If the out-of-splat Charm was something boring and inconsequential, then who the hell cares, and why did you spend 16xp on it?

This is a good answer.

[Lord Raziere]

Yea, the guys over at the White Wolf forum are basically saying the same thing as Xefas, so…yea, thats the answer, by mutual agreement.

[DeadManSleeping]

If the out-of-splat Charm was something boring and inconsequential, then who the hell cares, and why did you spend 16xp on it?

Because it was the prerequisite to the Charm you really wanted.

Though, personally, I think that if your game is at the point where your characters are incomprehensible overbeings that can only manifest in the physical world by fractions, and you're still counting XP, you've got more than a few things going wrong.

[aetherialDawn]

A query, good Playgrounders:
Can Paramagnetic Tether Beam be used to wield weapons at range? How so?
Is there errata or stealth errata available for this topic?

Help!

[Turalisj]

I don't think you can manage the manual dexterity needed to whip weapons around with the PMTB. So my answer would be no.

[TheCountAlucard]

Though maybe a custom submodule could help in that regard.

[Lord Raziere]

Weapon Manipulation Extension (Dexterity 5, Essence 4)
This submodule allows the Alchemical to wield weapons with Paramagnetic Tether Beam at range as if the weapons were in their hand. However the Beam can only do this with one-handed weapons, as two-handed weapons are too heavy and unwieldy to wield at range with such fine control.

[Yuki Akuma]

If I were to make a PMTB submodule that allows you to use weapons, I'd make it similar to Mind-Hand Manipulation - treat your Essence as your Dexterity and use some other ability as the "weapon" ability.

On the other hand, PMTB is an Alchemical charm, so it shouldn't be quite as potent as a Primordial charm.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Yuki, I think You make mistake thinking that Yozi are still capable of using Primoridal charms. They use Solar-level charms, since they were forcibly made into "equals".

[Andreaz]

Yuki, I think You make mistake thinking that Yozi are still capable of using Primoridal charms. They use Solar-level charms, since they were forcibly made into "equals".

It could very well be the other way around.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Why so Andreaz ?

[Lord Raziere]

actually….the Yozis aren't really metaphysically different from when they were Primordials- the term Yozi is considered purely a political one and refers to Primordials that are imprisoned in Malfeas.

Their power level is the same, its just that the kind of powers they have aren't what they used to have, more of a change of focus rather than a lessening of what they once were.

its just that Primordials and Solars are just naturally on the same level of power, no strengthening or lessening, they just always been on the same level of power.