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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    I wrote a set of macros for the tabletop utility Maptool, if you're familiar with it.
    I'm not. I'll look it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    If you need help with setting up any of the basic formulas, then I can see if I've already worked it out.
    the most intriguing, at the moment, is applying damage to the health track. Handling overflow damage isn't done yet. I already have a dice roller set up somewhere, so I'll likely use that. Dunno where to start on the battle timer :p
    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Are you including the ability to save characters? Without that feature in Maptool, it would have been a pain to keep track of the stats for whatever form the Lunars were in at the time, and while I didn't have any Infernals, they would cause the same sort of issue. Since character data is preserved, I created duplicates of the variables that held their human statistics and made a unique set of macros for each Lunar that set the main attribute values to the proper amount, drawing from the copies I made for returning to human form.
    I won't do that, at least for now. I'm not bothering with charms, knacks or rules that deviate from the norm until I'm comfortable with the standard code. Actual character builders are much more complex and already available in ways that beat my ability (for now >:D), so I'm making live assistants.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    Yes.
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    Well, when you reach something relevant, send me a private message. I'll, one, tell you what I think, two, won't talk about it with anyone without your permission, and three, continue to think that home-brew is the very best medicine for Exalted. Your project counts as that. So really, let me know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Since character data is preserved, I created duplicates of the variables that held their human statistics and made a unique set of macros for each Lunar that set the main attribute values to the proper amount, drawing from the copies I made for returning to human form.
    That just sounds...so very cool. I've investigated MapTool, but never really used it consistently. I guess what I'd really need is someone who uses it regularly for some reason so that I'd be repeatedly exposed to it.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Thanks.
    But I don't think I'm doing anything new. It's just a take on things I'm having fun writing.
    I have also to decide whether I want it as compact as possible, to make a single file, or an actual folder with stuff. The biggest obstacle for the former right now is that I'm using images for the health levels.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    I'm not. I'll look it up.the most intriguing, at the moment, is applying damage to the health track. Handling overflow damage isn't done yet. I already have a dice roller set up somewhere, so I'll likely use that.
    The way I managed that was making damage an entirely separate script from the damage calculation. Each player (and NPC) would calculate how much damage their attack did, but I would be the one to actually inflict the damage using the second script, which would account for soak, hardness, and piercing attacks. You'll need to think of a different way to do the health tracks since you aren't keeping persistent character data, but I set it up so that each character token kept track of how many total health levels they had and how many -0s, -1s, -2s, -4s, and Incapacitated. From there, it was just a matter of checking whether the character was below any of those thresholds each time damage was inflicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    Dunno where to start on the battle timer :pI won't do that, at least for now. I'm not bothering with charms, knacks or rules that deviate from the norm until I'm comfortable with the standard code. Actual character builders are much more complex and already available in ways that beat my ability (for now >:D), so I'm making live assistants.
    That was kind of a mess with Maptool since it was designed for a D&D-style initiative system. I set it up so that each Join Battle roll gave a positive number. The counter then just started counting down indefinitely into negative numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    That just sounds...so very cool. I've investigated MapTool, but never really used it consistently. I guess what I'd really need is someone who uses it regularly for some reason so that I'd be repeatedly exposed to it.
    There are both pluses and minuses to using Maptool. One thing that's a pain is actually having maps. Either you have to spend forever building one in Maptool or spend forever looking for a premade one on the internet. And when it finally comes time that you have to reuse a map, the players will joke about having this feeling they've been there before. It certainly speeds up calculations for games like Exalted where there are entirely too many variables to keep track of sometimes, but that's only if someone dedicates enough time to create a macro for each unique Charm effect (thankfully there are only a dozen or so), piece of equipment, and alternate form. Never let anyone play a Lunar weapon master. Now, the group I was running that used Maptool eventually stopped using it for two reasons: 1) It was constantly taking me longer to get new maps; 2) The dice roller hated them. Still, it's not necessarily a bad utility to use, even if it's just the ST running it to keep track of all the battle calculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    I have also to decide whether I want it as compact as possible, to make a single file, or an actual folder with stuff. The biggest obstacle for the former right now is that I'm using images for the health levels.
    If you know what you're doing, you could always upload the images to an online location and have the utility cache them when it starts up. That way, you could have the best of both worlds. Of course, I couldn't even tell you how to begin to do that. Still, I don't think you'd have that much of a problem with a folder. There are a few tricks you can use to minimize image size, so it won't necessarily be that bad.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    The way I managed that was making damage an entirely separate script from the damage calculation. Each player (and NPC) would calculate how much damage their attack did, but I would be the one to actually inflict the damage using the second script, which would account for soak, hardness, and piercing attacks. You'll need to think of a different way to do the health tracks since you aren't keeping persistent character data, but I set it up so that each character token kept track of how many total health levels they had and how many -0s, -1s, -2s, -4s, and Incapacitated. From there, it was just a matter of checking whether the character was below any of those thresholds each time damage was inflicted.
    The data is persistent during any given execution, it just won't hold over from this session to the next time you refresh the screen. Currently applying damage is done like this: Put the entire health matrix in a single array, add the damage applied, sort (agg : 3, lethal : 2, bashing : 1, 0 is undamaged) and reapply to the matrix. Overflow damage...it's what i'm figuring right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    If you know what you're doing, you could always upload the images to an online location and have the utility cache them when it starts up. That way, you could have the best of both worlds. Of course, I couldn't even tell you how to begin to do that. Still, I don't think you'd have that much of a problem with a folder. There are a few tricks you can use to minimize image size, so it won't necessarily be that bad.
    Just having the urls stored is enough for the browser to cache them. It's a way.
    Last edited by Andreaz; 2012-02-12 at 10:38 AM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    There are both pluses and minuses to using Maptool. One thing that's a pain is actually having maps.[...]1) It was constantly taking me longer to get new maps; 2) The dice roller hated them. Still, it's not necessarily a bad utility to use, even if it's just the ST running it to keep track of all the battle calculations.
    I tend to go to Random.Org for my numerical randomness.

    Yeah, the abstract nature of Exalted doesn't lend well to the tactical feeling of map simulation. It can be done by really good role-players, but hasn't struck me as the norm. If I ever had the opportunity to play in a D20 game that did, I'd probably try MapTool for it.

    ...every once in a while I get the urge to mess around with a character sheet generator software. Hm.

    Also, and completely unrelated to the current topic, I...might have to take a recess from the Fluff Patch.
    Last edited by Story Time; 2012-02-12 at 11:42 AM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Chirality Prohibition Index should have an upgrade called Supersymmetry-Preserving Membrane. Or possibly Higgs-Deflating Truths.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Chirality Prohibition Index should have an upgrade called Supersymmetry-Preserving Membrane. Or possibly Higgs-Deflating Truths.
    There's a physics joke in here somewhere.

    I hate physics jokes.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    There's a physics joke in here somewhere.

    I hate physics jokes.
    D:
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    I agree with Tavar's comment on the other board but don't have anything else to add and continue to refuse to make an account there.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    I agree with Tavar's comment on the other board but don't have anything else to add and continue to refuse to make an account there.
    Why is that exactly?

    That you won't make an account there, I mean.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Why is that exactly?

    That you won't make an account there, I mean.
    Partly because about half the members outright refuse to listen to reason, partly because everyone won't stop patting Holden on the back, even when he's just making a lulzy comment or more or less trolling (and I dislike Holden as a person even if I respect his talent; see below). It's not that I want to hang around people who all share my opinion as my various kerfuffles with Tavar, Alucard, and Bookworm show, so much as that I refuse to argue with someone who outright refuses to try to understand a foreign position, no matter how silly he might feel it is. I cannot join the board, simply because I know I would bash my head in against my desk. How a game manages to acquire ironclad adherents on par with politics and religion is beyond me; I'd swear Fitter Happier is Peleps Deled himself.

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    If a thread ever gets too hot to touch, I'm always willing to discuss the matter privately.
    No homebrew here. It's all too dreadful in hindsight.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    This board isn't exactly better in that regard: if anything it's simply that the outright hostility is swapped for passive aggressiveness (though I think it's reputation as a bomb waiting to blow is undeserved, now at least: it's cooled down quite a bit). Well, it doesn't have Holden, but I'm not quite sure what your complaint is with regards to him: the fact that the forum laughs when he makes a funny comment?
    Last edited by Tavar; 2012-02-12 at 11:14 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    The White Wolf board pretty much flatly refuses to consider anything an Ink Monkey creates to be in any way bad. Take the new Exalted they announced in Masters of Jade. I hate them because they are being forcibly injected into my game without my permission. If I were to post that opinion on the White Wolf boards, I'd be laughed at as a backwards hillbilly. Likewise, my position on Glories of the Most High, Samsara, and Sol Invictus's insane behavioral constraints is ridiculed every time I mention it, as if hating the idea of super-fate that can bind the actions of things specifically beyond fate is somehow badwrongfun.

    For how it gets into my games without my permission? Stating something as canon adds it to the preconceptions people bring to a game. Unless I specifically call it out as not existing, they assume it is there. I have to specifically remove it from my game to get rid of it once an Ink Monkey has put it in text form.

    The main reason I go over there is that, like the Wyld, they occasionally spew forth ideas that are worth paying attention to. Half my ideas on what Lunars should be and what they should not be were formed while listening to Inugami and Revlid duke it out over Heart's Blood and shapeshifting.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    I hate them because they are being forcibly injected into my game without my permission.
    They are? I don't recall someone holding a gun to your head telling you to use them or else...
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    The White Wolf board pretty much flatly refuses to consider anything an Ink Monkey creates to be in any way bad.
    This...isn't true. There have been things that the forums have criticized, and done so heavily.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    Take the new Exalted they announced in Masters of Jade. I hate them because they are being forcibly injected into my game without my permission. If I were to post that opinion on the White Wolf boards, I'd be laughed at as a backwards hillbilly. Likewise, my position on Glories of the Most High, Samsara, and Sol Invictus's insane behavioral constraints is ridiculed every time I mention it, as if hating the idea of super-fate that can bind the actions of things specifically beyond fate is somehow badwrongfun.
    I'm not so sure about that. First off, I don't think they're that likely to do such an act at first. I think it would only really get that bad after a bit of discussion. Secondly, I think that's because your view seems, well, wrong. You've brought up these arguments before, and they seem to mostly rely on twisted meanings/preconceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    For how it gets into my games without my permission? Stating something as canon adds it to the preconceptions people bring to a game. Unless I specifically call it out as not existing, they assume it is there. I have to specifically remove it from my game to get rid of it once an Ink Monkey has put it in text form.
    Oh. I get it. Your problem is that someone else is in charge of the gameline, instead of you, and thus you don't get veto power over what goes on. And, I guess, that the gameline is still active, instead of dead.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    I think that taking an immediately disapproving stance on something we have so little information on is silly.

    Edit: Tavar said what I wanted to say much nicer and with less nonsense. Let's go with that.
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2012-02-12 at 11:48 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    I agree that the WW forums are hostile, problem is they are the biggest experts on the mechanics. If they were just a bunch of hostile arguers no one would pay attention to them. Sometimes though, they are right.

    But then there are also places like RPG.net that has its own flaws, where they are completely hostile against Exalted, Holden and the Ink Monkeys even when they doing things right, and I've heard an argument similar to Kyeudo's about how new content is somehow forcing people to use it which I find nonsensical.

    As usual, balance and moderation is key….too bad it seems people seem to lack this in this situation.

    and of course, no one likes people like me who want to do things like get rid of Resonance and put in elemental celestial Exalts….but I'm mostly over those things. I can play the canon stuff, but stuff I prefer would be even better.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    This board isn't exactly better in that regard: if anything it's simply that the outright hostility is swapped for passive aggressiveness (though I think it's reputation as a bomb waiting to blow is undeserved, now at least: it's cooled down quite a bit). Well, it doesn't have Holden, but I'm not quite sure what your complaint is with regards to him: the fact that the forum laughs when he makes a funny comment?
    But passive-aggressive one-upsmanship is so very entertaining. <3<

    My beef with Holden is that it all goes to his head. He swaggers, as much as that is possible with an online persona. He thinks he's a big man, and while he does sometimes make legitimately helpful, insightful, or clever comments, there's a massive clump of people licking his boots when he misses the mark entirely. I just feel it's behavior unbefitting a designer, though it's not like I'm not used to it from Monte Cook. Of course, as I've said, I can generally trust him to write well, which is more than anyone can say for Monte.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    The White Wolf board pretty much flatly refuses to consider anything an Ink Monkey creates to be in any way bad. Take the new Exalted they announced in Masters of Jade. I hate them because they are being forcibly injected into my game without my permission. If I were to post that opinion on the White Wolf boards, I'd be laughed at as a backwards hillbilly. Likewise, my position on Glories of the Most High, Samsara, and Sol Invictus's insane behavioral constraints is ridiculed every time I mention it, as if hating the idea of super-fate that can bind the actions of things specifically beyond fate is somehow badwrongfun.
    While I won't claim the game as my own, I certainly have a certain vested interest in keeping the game the way I like it; everyone does. While I may joke about being a defiler, arbitrarily changing things up like they are with the Chernozem is exactly the sort of thing that grinds my gears. Similarly, the given personalities of the Incarnae are one of the things that I never use in-game, as those I've played with have completely raged at them. They even changed to the same perspective as I do that maybe it was the Primordials who were in the right, if those who lifted up humanity are such terrible people, because at least the Primordials can't help themselves. That sort of decision shouldn't be something that an entire circle jumps on all at once. Though my version of Luna numbers on their top 3 favorite NPCs list.

    You can dance~
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    Watch that scene~
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    Of course, I'm not sure how Samsara got past Holden at all, what with his infamous stance on Cthulhu. That we before he took over, I believe, so I guess they just made sure not to tell him about it until it was already there or something. He is already here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    For how it gets into my games without my permission? Stating something as canon adds it to the preconceptions people bring to a game. Unless I specifically call it out as not existing, they assume it is there. I have to specifically remove it from my game to get rid of it once an Ink Monkey has put it in text form.
    To be fair, a lot of what they write are things that either should have been published already or blend seamlessly. Sometimes they outright contradict what has been published, and it's fun. Sometimes it isn't. Still wondering what in the shadow of the Ebon Dragon could have possessed someone to include a black hole punch in Solar Hero Style. I mean, seriously, they could have just said "sun" instead of "black hole," and it would have made sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    The main reason I go over there is that, like the Wyld, they occasionally spew forth ideas that are worth paying attention to. Half my ideas on what Lunars should be and what they should not be were formed while listening to Inugami and Revlid duke it out over Heart's Blood and shapeshifting.
    I do check once a week or so for that reason.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    My beef with Holden is that it all goes to his head. He swaggers, as much as that is possible with an online persona. He thinks he's a big man, and while he does sometimes make legitimately helpful, insightful, or clever comments, there's a massive clump of people licking his boots when he misses the mark entirely. I just feel it's behavior unbefitting a designer, though it's not like I'm not used to it from Monte Cook. Of course, as I've said, I can generally trust him to write well, which is more than anyone can say for Monte.
    Can you provide examples? I haven't really seen this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    While I won't claim the game as my own, I certainly have a certain vested interest in keeping the game the way I like it; everyone does. While I may joke about being a defiler, arbitrarily changing things up like they are with the Chernozem is exactly the sort of thing that grinds my gears.
    I'm not sure we can really call it arbitrary yet: there's so little out about them that it really feels like people complaining about how Dare Holden and the rest of the Developers/Freelancers working on Exalted actually Work on exalted!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Similarly, the given personalities of the Incarnae are one of the things that I never use in-game, as those I've played with have completely raged at them. They even changed to the same perspective as I do that maybe it was the Primordials who were in the right, if those who lifted up humanity are such terrible people, because at least the Primordials can't help themselves. That sort of decision shouldn't be something that an entire circle jumps on all at once. Though my version of Luna numbers on their top 3 favorite NPCs list.
    Can you explain why this is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Of course, I'm not sure how Samsara got past Holden at all, what with his infamous stance on Cthulhu. That we before he took over, I believe, so I guess they just made sure not to tell him about it until it was already there or something. He is already here.
    I think people place too much importance on Samsara: it's a frighteningly good number cruncher, that 5 people can really consult to a great degree, even limited as they are. And even then, it can simply give the result: Cloudy, come back later.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    I like the idea that Samsara is a giant Magic-8 Ball that the Maiden's take waaay too seriously.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    I like the idea that Samsara is a giant Magic-8 Ball that the Maiden's take waaay too seriously.
    They've essentially stated that's what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holden
    There's no mind guiding it. It's just procedurally generated information naturally arising out of the rule of cool. It's a random script generator, designed by nobody, with a native bias toward dramatic events. It is, in all seriousness, a magic eight-ball with ten quintillion answer-surfaces rather than a dozen.
    That's it.
    And it is powerless if left alone.
    Last edited by Tavar; 2012-02-13 at 12:34 AM. Reason: Found a better quote
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  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Can you provide examples? I haven't really seen this.
    Unfortunately, I can't, as I only browse occasionally. It might just be that I'm too used to picking up minor things in text that no one else pays much heed (all those lit classes, as mentioned).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    I'm not sure we can really call it arbitrary yet: there's so little out about them that it really feels like people complaining about how Dare Holden and the rest of the Developers/Freelancers working on Exalted actually Work on exalted!
    But they broke the naming pattern! Once the symmetry of the Perfected Principle of Hierarchy is broken, it can never be restored! I am simultaneously joking and being dead serious here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Can you explain why this is?
    Sol's defining trait is the struggle to maintain opposing Virtues. Instead of playing him up like Superman (who has had several different writeups himself) or really making his character about the struggle itself, they've made him about failing to rise to the challenge. He's not Exalted, but he is the archetype of perfection from which they are modeled. He should be everything they strive to surpass, even if they decide to go on the world-explody route, not some lazy, arrogant, foolish prick that even the decidedly "good guy" Solars want to off.

    Luna...still manages to not really be defined well. I mean, that's kind of the point to her character, but should we really be learning more about her from her brief dialogue with Laashe in an Ink Monkeys essay than in Glories: Luna?

    The Maidens are likewise not defined well, but in this case because they're supposed to have an air of mystery about them. They certainly have well-developed personalities in the fanon, but canonically, most of what we know is that they lie around Samsara like the Princess Leia cosplayers to its Jabba the Hutt.

    As far as circle morality goes, it's one thing for players to sit down, look at the books, and decide on what sort of morality they want to play. It's quite another for all the players to up and say "You know, Sol is actually kind of a ****. I feel bad for Malfeas," as a personal viewpoint. Siding with the Yozis should require the same sort of grim conviction as Master Asia (even though he decided he was wrong).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    I think people place too much importance on Samsara: it's a frighteningly good number cruncher, that 5 people can really consult to a great degree, even limited as they are. And even then, it can simply give the result: Cloudy, come back later.
    The problem isn't with Samsara per se, so much as Sacheverell. Turning the concept of a railroading ST into an actual game construct is silly.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    They've essentially stated that's what it is.
    I prefer the idea of Samsara as the Metaplot of the game (by which I mean the individual game as run by the ST, as opposed to the game line). It may not be fixed from the perspective of the characters or players, but Samsara is what you write down when you go and do a campaign journal, and it was "always fated to be that way."
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Instead of playing him up like Superman...
    The Unconquered Sun is not Superman. Superman does not have 5 in every Virtue, and even if he did, it wouldn't affect him the same way it does the Sun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Most of what we know is that they lie around Samsara like the Princess Leia cosplayers to its Jabba the Hutt.
    Reduced to the position of living sexual trophies, all while resisting at every turn, and filled with loathing for their new "master?"

    Oh, wait, cosplayers. Still don't think the analogy fits, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    The problem isn't with Samsara per se, so much as Sacheverell.
    Sacheverell is not Samsara, nor is what the Maidens do the same.

    Also, if Samsara is not the problem, then you shouldn't have said that Samsara was the problem.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    The problem isn't with Samsara per se, so much as Sacheverell. Turning the concept of a railroading ST into an actual game construct is silly.
    Sacheverell is not a railroading ST by default; look upon him more as the horribly powerful telepath in a comic book, who even asleep has a mind powerful enough to disturb everyone... And if he were freed from his cell deep beneath the earth, would spread a hive mind across the planet in days, subsuming civilians, heroes, and villains alike into eternal torment. He's not something that's meant to happen in actuality, he's a potential that the players strive against, much like the Ebon Dragon subsuming all of Creation into his personal playland of eternal darkness. I wouldn't want to play in a game ruled by the Ebon Dragon, nor one ruled by Sacheverell. Sure is a good thing the plotline is going to consist of me working against them, rather than the description of what they WOULD do if freed being somehow real.

    Always remember that 'If they could, they would do X' and 'X will happen' are very different things. Goals don't always succeed.

    (As for Samsara being the metaplot: It is at most the metaplot of things under Samsara, and can always fail to come up with an answer. If the ST says "This exists outside Samsara" then it DOES. If he tells the players that Samsara says they will do X... Then that was pretty damn dumb of him, because the players can say "No" - Samsara has no ability to control anyone, save the Maidens when they choose to consult it. It has no mechanics for controlling everyone because there are no mechanics for controlling everyone.)
    Last edited by aetherialDawn; 2012-02-13 at 01:59 AM.
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    I think we can pack it up and move to a different thread. aetherialDawn has won this one.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Unfortunately, I can't, as I only browse occasionally. It might just be that I'm too used to picking up minor things in text that no one else pays much heed (all those lit classes, as mentioned).
    I'm pretty sure that's it: I've never seen him really swagger unless he's playing a part. And in that case, it's a joke, so taking it seriously is a bit odd.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    But they broke the naming pattern! Once the symmetry of the Perfected Principle of Hierarchy is broken, it can never be restored! I am simultaneously joking and being dead serious here.
    I can't really answer this, as I realize that people have different standards. But, I think I can definitively say that it's already broken: Green Sun Princes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Sol's defining trait is the struggle to maintain opposing Virtues. Instead of playing him up like Superman (who has had several different writeups himself) or really making his character about the struggle itself, they've made him about failing to rise to the challenge. He's not Exalted, but he is the archetype of perfection from which they are modeled. He should be everything they strive to surpass, even if they decide to go on the world-explody route, not some lazy, arrogant, foolish prick that even the decidedly "good guy" Solars want to off.
    Failing a struggle does not mean that their isn't a struggle. Further more, I don't really see a way to escape the fact that he's failed: it's canon that he didn't help during the Crusade or Contagion.

    Also, here's a piece I wrote, that I think answers you perfectly.
    This has to do with the relationship between Solars and the Unconquered Sun, and why it informs his character. Many berate the Sun for staying in virtual seclusion, but I think at least some of this can be answered by how he viewed the Solars in the First Age.

    I think all of the Incarna view the Exalted a bit similar to how parents view their children. And, the Sun saw the solars grow in power such that they dwarfed him. More than that, he saw as their power increased they became divorced from Humanity, and at this point I think he started seeing echo's of the Fallen Primordials in them as well. But, of course, he couldn't do anything: not without breaking his word that Creation was for the Exalted.

    So he turned his face from them, as they grew ever worse.

    Then the Usurpation happened, and this is what really sealed his course of action. Because, he knows that part of what drove the Sidereals to put forward the prophecy was that he turned his back from his chosen. And thus, he is partially to blame for the death of his children. Not just that, even: to continue his promise, he can't be involved, even when his children are brutally murdered for century upon century. Moreover, he's not even sure if, had he not promised, that he should become involved.

    So, he stays away, consigning his children to death after death after death, because that is the will of those he left the world to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Luna...still manages to not really be defined well. I mean, that's kind of the point to her character, but should we really be learning more about her from her brief dialogue with Laashe in an Ink Monkeys essay than in Glories: Luna?

    The Maidens are likewise not defined well, but in this case because they're supposed to have an air of mystery about them. They certainly have well-developed personalities in the fanon, but canonically, most of what we know is that they lie around Samsara like the Princess Leia cosplayers to its Jabba the Hutt.
    That's...what? First off, you said before that " It might just be that I'm too used to picking up minor things in text that no one else pays much heed (all those lit classes, as mentioned)."

    Why then did this not happen for either of the books? There's plenty of characterization there, it's simply not spelled out by first saying "the character of Lunar is as follows". Even then, there's parts where they clearly define the different characters.

    As for the Maidens...bwa? There's quite a bit of personality revealed on pages 5-7, more than enough for beings meant to be mysterious, especially coupled with the fact that the ST is meant to have leeway with the characters.

    And, well, yes, they aren't nice, in Human Terms. But asking someone to be nice in that way when their job is to make sure everyone dies at their appointed time is...somewhat demanding, to say the least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    As far as circle morality goes, it's one thing for players to sit down, look at the books, and decide on what sort of morality they want to play. It's quite another for all the players to up and say "You know, Sol is actually kind of a ****. I feel bad for Malfeas," as a personal viewpoint. Siding with the Yozis should require the same sort of grim conviction as Master Asia (even though he decided he was wrong).
    True, but you haven't really show that this applies to the Incarna.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    The problem isn't with Samsara per se, so much as Sacheverell. Turning the concept of a railroading ST into an actual game construct is silly.
    Lucky thing that there are only conjectures about his power, and the fact that he's one thing that Heaven and Hell work together to keep quiescent.

    Anyways, calling it railroading makes it sound silly. Well, duh, railroading is a pejorative term. What Sacheverell does is turn the world from one with Free will into one without: making everything predefined. That sounds much worse for me.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    This...isn't true. There have been things that the forums have criticized, and done so heavily.
    And for that, those that have, have been frequently roasted.

    I think a guy named Shyft is making some "friends" at the moment by expressing his dislike of how the current freelancers do things, in a thread that's probably still there. Or how, when Reminescent Oasis disliked what MoJ had to say on Lunars, people were basically calling him "mindless Chicken Little that needs to have his butt wiped to think" even as the actual writers came and explained. Thankfully, he had the Lunar Fan Contingent in there to help him.

    Basically, in the WW forum, don't mention something negative about the freelancers unless you are ready to defend your argument with blood and fire and for the thread to go to twelve pages. People like EarthScorpion or Inugami, who have really strong convictions about the game, are willing to do this, but most people just don't feel it worth the hassle. This was a bit of a problem, incidentally, given I never seemed to agree with Neph on anything, ever. I'm pretty sure that if you gave us both a tuned atomic clock and asked us the time, each of us would see different times .

    There's a reason I rarely post twice in the same thread there. I'm not willing to get into a dicussion in the WW forums. I just do random commenting, and even that took me a while to do rather than lurking, after I was basically cussed out the door by a few "forum bigs" on my third post in the old forum before the site change.
    Last edited by Drascin; 2012-02-13 at 03:49 AM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    For how it gets into my games without my permission? Stating something as canon adds it to the preconceptions people bring to a game. Unless I specifically call it out as not existing, they assume it is there. I have to specifically remove it from my game to get rid of it once an Ink Monkey has put it in text form.
    And I'm sure there are quite a few of us that are aware that just because something is canon doesn't mean it's a good idea or makes any kind of reasonable sense.

    ...the official contributors probably make things because they think those things are good ideas in some way and will further...improve ( this is used for the lack of a more appropriate word ) Exalted. And if that is their intention then that's good. I can be glad that they're at least trying. But really having too many chefs in the kitchen is a recipe for disaster.

    I was once educated by someone with a degree in psychology. The point of one particular lesson was that with selective polling the greater the number of people that contribute to a poll the more accurate it is ( within the demographic being polled ). But that equation doesn't work when applied to contributors, official or not.

    Really, the diversity and contradiction in the canon of Exalted is exactly the reason why I like newbie games. The fewer the preconceptions in the players the more fun everyone has discovering the game.
    Last edited by Story Time; 2012-02-13 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Grammar

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