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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mud View Post
    Well, HMs are the regular flashpoints but beefed up for level 50s. BT specifically isn't THAT hard, and you should be good to run it if you have some Champ gear/orange modded gear with Corellia Mods, or some cheap purples from the GTN. From there, you mostly progress through the HMs as you did when you leveled. BT > Athiss > Hammer > etc. As for raiding, if you haven't tried it before I'd give it a whirl. It's not as hard to get a functional group as it was in WoW with 40 man's.
    Actually, not the order you want to go in on the Republic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valaqil View Post
    I can't think of a good system that isn't either exploitable or easy to avoid. No criterion seems to be foolproof. That said, I do hope there's _some_ kind of requirement because I agree that vote-kick systems are prone to abuse.

    Separately, what's the deal with HM Flashpoints? For the most basic example, just how hard is BT that you need multiple 50s to do it? I'd like to grab some nice PvE gear for my Consular, but I'm not sure how much effort I want to spend on it. (After all, I'm not likely to 'raid' anyway...)
    Valaqil, since you're a Sage, you'll have a pretty easy time finding groups (you heal, right?). You'll want to be in mostly all orange gear with at least some of the daily purple mods from the Ilum and Belsavis daily quests. So, those are the Grade 50 and 51 mods (Hilt/Mod/Enhancement/Crystal Rank 22/23 on mouseover). Or roughly rating 126 if you go by hilt/barrel. If you're into PvP, having mostly all Centurion gear is a suitable alternative to the daily mods route.

    Hard modes for the Republic are basically mandatory all 50s with at least some basic entry-level purple gear. Nearly all of them have some sort of DPS race as the first or second boss, so that acts as a gear check for the rest of the Flashpoint. Ultimately, they're not hard if you have a good party. I met a phenomenal group, and we end up skipping half the mobs in each Hard Mode (we found some interesting tricks). I'd suggest you start with them in this order:

    Taral V -> Maelstrom Prison -> Kaon Under Siege -> False Emperor -> Ilum -> Directive 7 -> Esseles

    They're all pretty easy, except for Esseles. Every HM has a DPS race built into one of the bosses. Esseles is probably the hardest, because the last boss bugs out, but beyond that, it's pretty straightforward.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Salur View Post
    Well, all flashpoints after Black Talon/Esseles (normal mode) need 4 people of about the right level for the quest, and all the hardmodes are level 50 FPs, so it's not surprising you'd need multiple 50s to do it. I'd think of the Hard Modes as "Level 50 flashpoints, that happen to have the same story" and not as "Black Talon, now 20x harder!".
    I... actually didn't know that. Until Mr. Mud's post, anyway. I just knew "Hard Mode" > "Normal Mode". "It's harder." Sounds silly, but I haven't seen a single bit of info about HM's _in game_. I just hear it talked about on forums or maybe in General chat. There's a few mechanics/systems like that, too. I do my reading and don't mind it, but you have to go looking for info on some of this because it's not explained up-front, that I've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mud View Post
    1600 of your main stat
    Good grief. (I think mine is ~1175?)

    Thanks for the info guys. Looks like I won't be bothering with them for a while -- I'm more interested in leveling an alt for more story/content -- but this will help when I decide to start doing more end-game type stuff down the road.
    Last edited by Valaqil; 2012-02-20 at 01:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Waaait a second. I am calling shenanigans on that at least 1600 main stat number, as I just barely have that (1740 with a stim active, 1618 without) and have been running hardmode operations, which are just a bit higher on the difficulty ladder than flashpoints.

    This'd be my gear, for references. Mix of columi and rakata, with a champion implant/earpiece since I haven't gotten PvE replacements yet. The gun and helmet are oranges for personal reasons (I refuse to wear a bucket helmet, and the gun sounds awesome), the belt is orange because I can get better stats out of an orange than the purples I have encountered.
    Last edited by NEO|Phyte; 2012-02-20 at 02:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Whoah, 1600 is way overestimating it. I started HMs at 1150 main stat with no problems. I'm at about 1300 main stat and we're clearing HMs ridiculously quickly now.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Generally speaking, I would recommend you have most of your orange gear filled with the daily mods (The weapon mods and the armorings), and at least some of them with the epic enhancements and modifications. That should be enough to get you started on the hard mode and pvp.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't Succeed, Reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Valaqil View Post
    Separately, what's the deal with HM Flashpoints? For the most basic example, just how hard is BT that you need multiple 50s to do it? I'd like to grab some nice PvE gear for my Consular, but I'm not sure how much effort I want to spend on it. (After all, I'm not likely to 'raid' anyway...)
    They aren't that hard, but you're also not going to be able to faceroll the HMs solo just by bringing out your healer companion. You'll need at least one or two real humans who know what they're doing and are geared in 49/50 blues & purples. You can use companions to suppliment a role, though... healing companions work best. They don't do any priority management, but they'll definitely spam the hell out of everything if you have them on med watch.

    But, understand that everything's level 50+, so those champion enemies have a hell of a lot of HP and if they have self-healing/regen, it's turned to 11. Their tactics aren't any better, and there aren't really any surprise powers, but for example, Mandalorian Raiders is a major PITA when that little jerk starts running around and the turrets come on. Anything with a healer probe is likewise maddening...

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    If you took the automated defenses section as a Trooper in the Bastion on Corellia, then you've just seen the tip of the iceberg with how irritating it can be.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload



    I got that 1600 from a forum post a while ago, maybe it's for some of the nightmare modes?
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't Succeed, Reload

    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo View Post
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    If you took the automated defenses section as a Trooper in the Bastion on Corellia, then you've just seen the tip of the iceberg with how irritating it can be.
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    What was so hard about that? I'm honestly curious what you found about that section to be difficult, as I didn't have much problem at all with my severely under-geared (45 greens are among my better mods) trooper with healer companion. The only really hard spot, the one that made me spend a medpack, was the guys who spawned in after you activated the item halfway through.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    I've been Running Hard mode with pretty bad gear for a while. Mostly because I have been bad about running my dailies. I think the gear and stat reliance some people believe in are do to:
    1. Not well optimized builds
    2. Not well executed builds
    3. Bad tactics

    I have done up to Foundry with nothing but level 45 gear, as a DPS sorcerer, and contributed fine.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Some food for thought:

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    Totally looks like:

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    Last edited by Sith_Happens; 2012-02-21 at 03:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't Succeed, Reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Binks View Post
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    What was so hard about that? I'm honestly curious what you found about that section to be difficult, as I didn't have much problem at all with my severely under-geared (45 greens are among my better mods) trooper with healer companion. The only really hard spot, the one that made me spend a medpack, was the guys who spawned in after you activated the item halfway through.
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    Not difficult. Irritating. The probes healed each other/their tended droids/turrets very quickly, and if you weren't DPS specced (I was pretty solidly a tank), they'd go from 1/5 health to 4/5 health every couple of seconds. I was never in danger of death for the whole of Corellia (only died on the one boss fight where there were two giant gold star droids that powered up, and that was only because I didn't realize there were two droids and didn't really notice my companion getting chewed up until the words "your companion has fallen" popped up on the screen). It just seemed like it took forever. The final fight with Rakton was also more of this, but only with his two Lts (the General himself fell in short order).

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    So, I've played WoW for years and very much enjoyed it, but I've been getting bored recently and I think I'm going to cancel my account. I'm wondering if I should move to SWTOR.

    So my question for people who have played both is: how does TOR stack up against WoW? Is the combat more fun/less so? Is the story better? I've heard that it plays kinda like an MMO version of a Bioware RPG, is that true?
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Combat borrows heavily from WoW. You can actually line up the Jedi Guardian/Sith Juggernaught with the Warrior tank from WoW (at one point, at least), and you can see the similarities. That being said, most tanks (besides the guardian and the juggernaught) have pretty decent damage capabilities, as do the healers. Leveling (via the main plot) can be done solo in 95% of all cases, and the remaining 5% are usually do to bad gear on you/your companion or poor tactics.

    I've never played Wow, so I can't comment on the story. But yes, it plays a lot like a bioware RPG that you can periodicly decide to pick up other players and complete quests with.

    Group content falls into a couple of categories;
    Heroic Quests (2+ or 4; These are intended to be done by groups of players, and can be found scattered throughout the planet. Most 2+ heroics can be solo'd after a few levels, though)
    Flashpoints (4 player self contained stories. Some have more plot than others)
    Operations (8 or 16 man raids, essentially. Some setup and debriefing, storywise)
    World Bosses (Giant enemies who generally require an Ops group to defeat. Each world has 1 (or two, in Hoth's case))
    Warzones (8v8 objective based pvp games. Currently 3 of them; Huttball involves a single heavy ball that you must take over the opponent's line to score, while trying not to be killed by obstacles and other players, Alderaan involves capturing and maintaining control of 3 turrets to destroy the opposing team's ship, and Voidstar is an attack/defend map involving a raid on a lost prototype ship. Voidstar and Alderaan are cross-faction pvp only, but Huttball often involves 2 imperial groups fighting. A fourth warzone with same-faction pvp is coming soon)
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't Succeed, Reload

    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo View Post
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    Not difficult. Irritating. The probes healed each other/their tended droids/turrets very quickly, and if you weren't DPS specced (I was pretty solidly a tank), they'd go from 1/5 health to 4/5 health every couple of seconds. I was never in danger of death for the whole of Corellia (only died on the one boss fight where there were two giant gold star droids that powered up, and that was only because I didn't realize there were two droids and didn't really notice my companion getting chewed up until the words "your companion has fallen" popped up on the screen). It just seemed like it took forever. The final fight with Rakton was also more of this, but only with his two Lts (the General himself fell in short order).
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    Ah. That's probably the difference. I'm very DPS spec'd so the probes went down fast. I think one got off a heal once during the entire automated section, it wasn't happening very often (that and I focused fire of them because I hate enemy healers). Rakton's Lts were very annoying, had to use my 60s stun on one just to have a chance to kill the other one they had so much healing...
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    So, it's still a while before I'll actually get this game (I'll need to escape the Sarlaac pit of Mass Effect 3 first), but I'm curious: How is it doing? Is it being swallowed up by WoW like everything else or might TOR actually become a lasting contender?
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    As a WoW player, I'll tell you that Star Wars will last for quite a while. Most of the features are remarkably similar so it feels familiar, and many of the WoW players I roll with play SWTOR as well.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight13 View Post
    So, I've played WoW for years and very much enjoyed it, but I've been getting bored recently and I think I'm going to cancel my account. I'm wondering if I should move to SWTOR.

    So my question for people who have played both is: how does TOR stack up against WoW? Is the combat more fun/less so? Is the story better? I've heard that it plays kinda like an MMO version of a Bioware RPG, is that true?
    Being an infant compared to WoW, TOR is missing some crucial parts of WoW that I loved, namely arena (Your Mileage May Vary), guild bank/other neat guild features, and a LFG tool. Surely these will come in time. The story in TOR is better than a lot of regular RPGs I've played. I think you should invest in it

    PS- If I find my trial card, I'll send it your way .
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mud View Post
    Being an infant compared to WoW, TOR is missing some crucial parts of WoW that I loved, namely arena (Your Mileage May Vary), guild bank/other neat guild features, and a LFG tool. Surely these will come in time. The story in TOR is better than a lot of regular RPGs I've played. I think you should invest in it

    PS- If I find my trial card, I'll send it your way .
    Guild banks are en route. What I'm hoping for is a guild hall in the form of a battle cruiser / star destroyer.

    I've noticed one stark difference in terms of the questing between WoW and SWTOR: no quest lines end in a flashpoint. For example, in WoW when you were questing in the zone where Blackrock Spire resided (we're talking vanilla here), you were eventually given quests that required you to go into LBRS or UBRS to finish the quest lines. Sure, SWTOR has the flashpoint quest givers but they are one-shot quest lines that tie into the overall narrative by proxy. There's really no story-related or quest line-related imperative to go into the flashpoints.

    I feel that's unfortunate. I would have traded away a HEROIC 4 quest for a reason to go to flashpoint if it was rolled into the story of a given quest line. But that isn't the case and the flaspoints feel more like challenging treasure hunts on the side rather than capstones to a more engaging story.

    It's small potatoes, I know, but the effort to better tie these dungeons to the rest of the game would have been appreciated.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by polity4life View Post
    Guild banks are en route. What I'm hoping for is a guild hall in the form of a battle cruiser / star destroyer.

    I've noticed one stark difference in terms of the questing between WoW and SWTOR: no quest lines end in a flashpoint. For example, in WoW when you were questing in the zone where Blackrock Spire resided (we're talking vanilla here), you were eventually given quests that required you to go into LBRS or UBRS to finish the quest lines. Sure, SWTOR has the flashpoint quest givers but they are one-shot quest lines that tie into the overall narrative by proxy. There's really no story-related or quest line-related imperative to go into the flashpoints.

    I feel that's unfortunate. I would have traded away a HEROIC 4 quest for a reason to go to flashpoint if it was rolled into the story of a given quest line. But that isn't the case and the flaspoints feel more like challenging treasure hunts on the side rather than capstones to a more engaging story.

    It's small potatoes, I know, but the effort to better tie these dungeons to the rest of the game would have been appreciated.
    Bioware REALLY didn't want to force people to do flashpoints if they didn't want to. So that was out.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by polity4life View Post
    I've noticed one stark difference in terms of the questing between WoW and SWTOR: no quest lines end in a flashpoint.
    Ilum does. It's also more or less the one case where the flashpoints are related to the planet in question, whereas the other flashpoints are all "we found this thing, come look into it"
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeivar View Post
    So, it's still a while before I'll actually get this game (I'll need to escape the Sarlaac pit of Mass Effect 3 first), but I'm curious: How is it doing? Is it being swallowed up by WoW like everything else or might TOR actually become a lasting contender?
    I love TOR, but it's really hard to say.

    For me, leveling a character is 1000x better than it was in WoW. I feel like there's basically no grind in leveling and there really is a lot to do. PvP, space missions, all of the various worlds and storylines, bonus series after you finish a planet, flashpoints... (Oh, and as non-essential as it is, I really do like crafting!)

    Is TOR as polished and feature-complete as WoW? No. But it hasn't had that time to get there either. However, they are fixing bugs very quickly, responding to the community and even adding content _early_. The first major content release is supposed to arrive next month in Patch 1.2. Sure, TOR has its problems, but I really think it could be a lasting contender if they manage to keep this up and hold on to their playerbase. On the other hand, if enough people rush through the content, get bored or annoyed at perceived faults and quit...

    For an example of an issue that may cause problems if it's not fixed in the next major patch or so: There are various complaints about bugs and operations on the official forums, but the major one I keep hearing is that PvP isn't set up well.
    --At first, 50s in full PvP gear were in the same bracket as level 11's fresh off the fleet. Now it's 1-49 and 50s, but fresh 50s are having trouble against those who have been 50 and PvP'ing for a month. Also, now it's 49s against those 11s. We need a bit more variation in brackets, but they're working on it. (Personally, I think at least a couple of the brackets should be separated by your valor rank, i.e. how much PvP you've done.)
    --PvP progression is a little screwy. It's both complicated and slow since the RNG is not in your favor. You need commendations and then turn some (though not all) of those commendations into _other_ commendations and then trade enough of both types to get a bag and the bag may have a piece of what you want or not. Again, supposedly they're working on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mud View Post
    Being an infant compared to WoW, TOR is missing some crucial parts of WoW that I loved, namely arena (Your Mileage May Vary), guild bank/other neat guild features, and a LFG tool. Surely these will come in time. The story in TOR is better than a lot of regular RPGs I've played. I think you should invest in it .
    We don't have a LFG tool -- How long did it take WoW to get one of those? -- but I think that's coming. Guild banks and other guild features are supposed to be in 1.2, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Bioware REALLY didn't want to force people to do flashpoints if they didn't want to. So that was out.
    And I'm glad they didn't. I like the way class and planet storylines are kept separate but the over-arcing story is supplemented/continued in flashpoints. It's nice to see more info and things happen without feeling like I "have" to do it to finish everything.
    Last edited by Valaqil; 2012-02-22 at 09:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Being an infant compared to WoW, TOR is missing some crucial parts of WoW that I loved, namely arena (Your Mileage May Vary), guild bank/other neat guild features, and a LFG tool. Surely these will come in time. The story in TOR is better than a lot of regular RPGs I've played. I think you should invest in it
    I was never interested in the endgame in WoW much, so it doesn't worry me if that's not fully developed yet in TOR.

    PS- If I find my trial card, I'll send it your way .
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Bioware REALLY didn't want to force people to do flashpoints if they didn't want to. So that was out.
    As someone utterly sick of MMO's but in love with RPG's I am very grateful for this.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    My issue with the lack of tying what's going on with the story on a planet to what is happening in a given flashpoint is that they don't seem to have any larger meaning.

    Let's take Athiss for an example, on the Empire side. You're tasked to go there because of the suspicion that the station is going to be used as a superweapon. How neat would it have been if, while on Balmorra, you're tasked to go there by some planet-side quest giver to investigate as the Republic having that would turn the tides for the occupation of the planet; Malgus confirms the suspicion (tying in the daily flashpoint quests provided on the station, keeping the existing flashpoint-quest relationship), and off you go. Now you finish, have the story-related turn in on Balmorra, and you feel like you had an even greater impact on the outcome of the struggle for that planet. All of this is being done as an option, like any given Heroic-difficulty quest. The normal story lines would proceed uninhibited.

    Just an opinion really. All it amounts to is a bit more voice acting and another different set of tasks required to obtain higher quality loot, all in lieu of a Heroic 4 quest.

    On an unrelated note, it's AMAZING how many videos people have made and posted on Youtube, complaining about this game. It honestly seems as though this game's very existence offends them. Have any of you seen this junk?
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    People are upset that this wasn't exactly what they envisioned it to be, I guess. Also there's a fair number of people upset by the bugs, but that's the sort of thing that happens to every big MMO at launch.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by polity4life View Post
    There's really no story-related or quest line-related imperative to go into the flashpoints.
    As story driven as the game is, I imagine Bioware didn't want people to feel left out if they didn't get the opportunity to finish a class/planet story if they weren't able/inclined to get people together.

    That being said, the flashpoints and operations have an arc within themselves related to the game's metaplot, so there is a "story reward" to playing those, it's just not as personal/in your face as your class' story arc. There are a lot of references/similarities to the "other side's" flashpoints, so there's also a hook to get you to play the other faction.

    Quote Originally Posted by polity4life View Post
    On an unrelated note, it's AMAZING how many videos people have made and posted on Youtube, complaining about this game. It honestly seems as though this game's very existence offends them. Have any of you seen this junk?
    Sometimes freedom of speech, pervasive entitlement, and mass idea distribution have a down side.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    So, sort of on the subject, who's the Republic's person-who-constantly-jumps-you-with-holomessages-recruiting-you-for-flashpoints?
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    So, sort of on the subject, who's the Republic's person-who-constantly-jumps-you-with-holomessages-recruiting-you-for-flashpoints?
    Satele Shan, the chick from two of the cinematics.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Idle curiosity - do Republic characters still have the Preferences check button to Show Sith Corruption, and does it do anything on, say, a Jedi?
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic II: If at First you don't succeed, reload

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Idle curiosity - do Republic characters still have the Preferences check button to Show Sith Corruption, and does it do anything on, say, a Jedi?
    I could double check, but I'm almost positive it does, seeing as it's actually DS corruption. After all, it applies to Agents and Hunters.
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