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  1. - Top - End - #1111
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Druness View Post
    My local comic book store has all the books except SSaDT. They just got them from their gaming supplier, so anyone waiting to buy the books from Ookoodook may want to check your local stores.
    This is actually what upsets me.

    I'm in the $139 group - the unsigned set of reprinted books. The one that Ookoodook is dragging their feet on. Originally we were supposed to get our books in April, then that got pushed back to May, then June... I totally understand that, these things happen.

    But a little over a month ago my LGS got back in stock multiple copies of all the out of print books they haven't had for years. I asked if they were part of the Kickstarter project too, but they said no - they got them from the distributor.

    Oookoodook made the choice to make the books available to merchants before supplying them to the people that made the reprints possible in the first place. They already had our money (via the Giant) so the heck with us... we'll get our books when we get our books.

    I do not regret helping The Giant get his works back in print, and I still can't wait until I get mine. Before seeing them in my LGS, I was prepared to wait until December, if that's what it took. But now that I know distributors got them LONG before the Kickstarter supporters?

    I think I've spent my last dollar with Oookoodook. I suppose I shall have to purchase any further OotS merchandise second-hand, when it becomes available.
    Last edited by Joringel; 2012-07-12 at 11:01 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #1112
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Joringel View Post
    I do not regret helping The Giant get his works back in print, and I still can't wait until I get mine. Before seeing them in my LGS, I was prepared to wait until December, if that's what it took. But now that I know distributors got them LONG before the Kickstarter supporters?

    I think I've spent my last dollar with Oookoodook. I suppose I shall have to purchase any further OotS merchandise second-hand, when it becomes available.
    I don't understand this. It's not that I disagree - I can't understand it at all, so I don't even know if I agree or not.

    Did anyone promise us that the Kickstarter rewards would take priority over commercial distribution? Was it somehow implied? Is it considered "good form" and taken for granted? And if so, why?

    And even if it would be preferable (for whatever reason), doesn't it make sense that distributing books in bulk over already established channels is much easier than preparing and sending customized parcels for each of the 15,000 backers, with a wide variety of contents? Especially if we consider that the huge number of backers - and extra rewards - were not anticipated in any way, so neither the Giant nor Oookoodook could be prepared for it in advance?

    It's an honest question.

    P.S. I just received the $68 package (SS&DT, W&XPs and assorted goodies), in Europe. Yay!
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  3. - Top - End - #1113
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    I would not be the least bit surprised if there is a system set up separate from Ookoodook for the gaming stores such that shipping to the stores could be accomplished by just sending a note to the printer saying X number of each book should go to this other place instead of Ookoodook. In fact, that probably is how it's arranged - Ookoodook handling custom small orders, usually submitted through their web site, while some other company handles wholesale shipments to businesses.

    In that case it would involve a completely separate set of resources, and when the books show up in local stores would have nothing to do with the priority or effort put towards shipping Kickstarter rewards.

    I don't have any definite knowledge on this, but you should learn more before making a decision like that.
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  4. - Top - End - #1114
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by HeadlessMermaid View Post
    Did anyone promise us that the Kickstarter rewards would take priority over commercial distribution? Was it somehow implied? Is it considered "good form" and taken for granted? And if so, why?
    We were promised no such thing, but the expected date of delivery kept being pushed back further and further over time, and we were told the reason for this was because Ookoodook was moving them at a finite speed.

    In reality, the reason that shipping was taking so long for our orders was because that books that could have been going to kickstarter supporters - without whom there would have been no reprinted books in the first place - were going to distributors to get them back on the shelves.

    The extras aside, I could have purchased the four books from my LGS for less than the Kickstarter support level and would already have them on my shelf instead of sitting here wondering when they're finally going to get around for shipping them.

    So yeah, from where I sit, it's pretty bad form. It's akin to ordering a pizza and watching it go in the oven, only to have another customer come in who's a friend of the owner and order the same pizza. Then, the pizza shop gives them your pizza and you wait as they put a fresh one in the oven.

    I'd be angry, and I'd buy my pizza somewhere else from now on. That is, essentially, why I'm upset with Ookoodook.

  5. - Top - End - #1115
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Joringel View Post
    In reality, the reason that shipping was taking so long for our orders was because that books that could have been going to kickstarter supporters - without whom there would have been no reprinted books in the first place - were going to distributors to get them back on the shelves.
    I just don't think that's the case. As douglas points out, the system for getting books back to the stores is probably "press a button on a website", whereas "individually package and mail 15,000 unique orders" isn't quite the same thing. In addition, the books will all have been printed in one run--it's not like they printed a bunch, sent them to distributors, then printed another batch to fulfil the Kickstarter orders.

    Or do you think that Ookoodook can wave a magic wand and get all those orders packaged up and sent in a couple of hours without human intervention? Sure seems it from what you're saying.

  6. - Top - End - #1116
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Every Kickstarter order the Ookoodook staff fills is potentially different - people added books to their base order, got different arrangements of extras, etc. All that has to be specially packed and double-checked to make sure what's in the box lines up with what you ordered.

    A retailer gets a whole bunch of books - probably a round number just to make things simpler - stuffed into a box and off they go.

    Which of those do you think is easier and quicker to fulfill?
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  7. - Top - End - #1117
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Even more to the point, the stated goal of the Kickstarter drive is to put the books back in print. It's hard to remember, but back at the beginning Rich was just hoping to get WAXPs back on the shelves.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kickstarter Project Page
    The goal, listed over in the top right corner, represents the amount of money we need to raise to print the minimum number of copies of War and XPs to place it back in stock on our website and in local gaming shops around the world (plus enough extra to cover domestic shipping for the pledge rewards and such). If we reach that goal, then I’ll call the printer up at the end of this pledge drive and begin printing almost immediately.
    While it's unfortunate that we helped him exceed the goal by so much that his usual fulfillment folks had to hire extra temporary workers just to deal with all the rewards promised to his unexpected fifteen legions of backers in a time frame much longer than he could have anticipated when he established the estimated delivery dates[/irony], the fact remains that when you pledged it was for the purpose stated above. The fact that those books are in those stores means that we collectively succeeded. The rewards are the delicious icing on the victory cake.
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  8. - Top - End - #1118
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    I have to agree with @Joringel. It is bad form when the Kickstarter backers are the ones responsible for Ookoodook being able to sell them at all. (This is not directed at Rich at all)

    It doesn't effect me directly since I have no local gaming store around here and will patiently await my $87 order.
    Last edited by mindx2; 2012-07-13 at 08:32 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #1119
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Joringel View Post
    So yeah, from where I sit, it's pretty bad form. It's akin to ordering a pizza and watching it go in the oven, only to have another customer come in who's a friend of the owner and order the same pizza. Then, the pizza shop gives them your pizza and you wait as they put a fresh one in the oven.

    I'd be angry, and I'd buy my pizza somewhere else from now on. That is, essentially, why I'm upset with Ookoodook.
    To me, it's more like the pizza place has five pizzas currently baking. You come in and order four pizzas, all with tons of different toppings including some toppings that aren't even available to regular customers. Someone else comes in just after you and orders one plain pizza. The owner pulls out one plain pizza and gives it to him so he can leave instead of making him wait twenty minutes while he ensures you're getting exactly what you ordered.

    Except instead of four pizzas, it's fifteen thousand different book orders, and the other guy just wants a package of books redirected.

    And like someone said, the books were all printed at the same time. So you have two sets of books. One set has to be unloaded, unpacked, and repacked into 15,000 different varieties of packages, along with a bunch of other goodies they may or may not have even received yet. The other set just has to be shipped out as-is. Shipping may very well have started around the same time, but it's obviously going to take a lot longer for individual packages to make their way out.

    On another note, got my $68 package yesterday. It's awesome, and incredibly worth the wait.

  10. - Top - End - #1120
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    I've dealt with Ookoodook in the past, on an order that didn't go as well as to be expected, and I found them to be very gracious and accommodating.

    Until they weigh in on what happened I'm going to assume that the books shipped directly from the printers to the bricks-and-mortar stores.

    Even if the books went to Ookoodook directly it makes sense that they would ship the larger orders first. I doubt they have enough floor space as it is, and they would need to make as much room as possible to process the Kickstarter orders.

    For me, being a part of the pledge drive was not about getting the books. It was about helping Rich grow his business. Books in the BMS's help bring more fans to the web site, which makes Rich more money, which brings us more free stuff.

    The money I pledged was a thank you to Rich for all the free stuff. I see the books and swag is a thank you from Rich. It just seems wrong to complain that my thank you didn't arrive before someone else's.

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  11. - Top - End - #1121
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Are the posters supposed to come separately? I got my package yesterday, and it didn't have the poster in it. (The invoice looked correct, though). I don't know if it's a packing mistake or if tubes with posters just take longer to mail for some reason.

  12. - Top - End - #1122
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by mindx2 View Post
    I have to agree with @Joringel. It is bad form when the Kickstarter backers are the ones responsible for Ookoodook being able to sell them at all. (This is not directed at Rich at all)
    Indeed, it is bad form to do the thing you said you were going to do.

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  13. - Top - End - #1123
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordae View Post
    Even more to the point, the stated goal of the Kickstarter drive is to put the books back in print. It's hard to remember, but back at the beginning Rich was just hoping to get WAXPs back on the shelves.
    This is an extremely fair point, and in light of this I am probably overreacting. (Though much less so than the three other KS backers I was with that day who came to the same conclusion.) Nonetheless, I sent an e-mail to 'dook's CS last night before my post to get their take on it and will still wait for that answer.

    It's just frustrating is all, waiting for books that other people are buying at the LGS right now, when you were part of what made it possible to get those books back on the shelf.

    It also makes you think twice about joining another KS project of this nature - "well, I'm sure enough people will support it, I'll just buy the book from my LGS once it's available and get it before these guys." So I don't know that this is a really good thing.

  14. - Top - End - #1124
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Anyone whose reason for pledging was, "This means I will get this book before it's back in stores!" is someone who should rethink joining another Kickstarter of what they believe the nature of this one to be--enough to confirm or deny that that is actually the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  15. - Top - End - #1125
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Joringel View Post
    This is an extremely fair point, and in light of this I am probably overreacting. (Though much less so than the three other KS backers I was with that day who came to the same conclusion.) Nonetheless, I sent an e-mail to 'dook's CS last night before my post to get their take on it and will still wait for that answer.

    It's just frustrating is all, waiting for books that other people are buying at the LGS right now, when you were part of what made it possible to get those books back on the shelf.

    It also makes you think twice about joining another KS project of this nature - "well, I'm sure enough people will support it, I'll just buy the book from my LGS once it's available and get it before these guys." So I don't know that this is a really good thing.



    In my opinion, you could not possibly be more off-base. You've clearly never worked in any sort of fulfillment environment to understand the basic concepts of how these things work.

    To break it down as simply as possible:

    Step 1: Order is placed with a printer for 150,000 books. Printer ships 150,000 books to warehouse.
    Step 2: Warehouse divides books into sections, hypothetically 75,000 for game store distribution and 75,000 for individual distribution.
    Step 3: One section of warehouse workers who are dedicated to game store distribution begins packaging books to go out, usually in predetermined lots, sometimes even presorted into these lots by the printer. The other section of warehouse workers who are dedicated to individual distribution (plus additional staff due to demand) then start sorting and packaging the thousands of individual packages to go out.

    The bottom line is that Ookoodook's entire operation cannot cease simply for the Kickstarter drive and Rich. There are parts of the business that will still function normally just to accomplish everyday tasks that keep the lights on. I would imagine that they did divert additional staff over to the Kickstarter drive project, but even still, they have to do the day-to-day things that keep them in business on top of the Kickstarter. Couple that with the fact that sending out a few hundred or even a few thousand shipments to game stores is exponentially simpler than sending out 15,000+ packages to individuals, all of which are different in some form or fashion.

    I understand wanting your items sooner rather than later, but there is zero logic or realism in that frustration.

  16. - Top - End - #1126
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Yeah, I'm really impressed by Ookoodook and Rich through this. They have been very helpful and careful, plus Rich has made sure we know the status of fulfillment. All this, even though they're swamped with so much more than they ever expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidEel View Post
    Are the posters supposed to come separately? I got my package yesterday, and it didn't have the poster in it. (The invoice looked correct, though). I don't know if it's a packing mistake or if tubes with posters just take longer to mail for some reason.
    You mean the art print? It should have been inside a thin cardboard container-thing.

    Or were there actual full-size posters available that I completely forgot about?
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  17. - Top - End - #1127
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    The Kickstarter project was intended as a drive to get the books back in print, not to serve as a pre-order service. If you take it solely as the latter, you've completely missed the point.

    Also, my $25+book package arrived this week. Hoody hoo!
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  18. - Top - End - #1128
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazaril View Post
    The Kickstarter project was intended as a drive to get the books back in print, not to serve as a pre-order service. If you take it solely as the latter, you've completely missed the point.

    Also, my $25+book package arrived this week. Hoody hoo!
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  19. - Top - End - #1129
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    I don't have my package yet either. It's not for the same reason -- I already had all the books, but not the game, so I took that option and that last itty bit of bar on the Sticky Schticks is a mite slow in coming. It does make me a little sad. Not angry or disappointed with anyone, but it does make you feel a little left out hearing about all the other people reveling in their goodies when you can't share in the fun. (Yet.) To come second to retailers, who weren't involved in the project, I can understand how that could get under a person's skin.

    I would just reiterate what others have said in that I think retailers probably didn't get any kind of priority over KS supporters, but KS orders were much more varied and complicated than later retail orders were. We all saw how crazy that right margin got by the end of the drive, and even all THOSE variations didn't cover the almost-endless possibilities of differing books people were opting to put into their packages. But bulk stocking for retailers is another matter entirely. I think even if the KS packages got a head start at the warehouse, it would make sense we'd be seeing stock in retail shops before everybody's order was filled, just because it's so complicated.

    If so, the only way to stop this would be to just force retailers to wait for their product until ALL the KS orders had been shipped. Not give them a lower priority but just flat out make them wait for the sake of waiting, because if they got their stuff before any KS supporters then the drive supporters might have hurt feelings. That seems an impractical method of operation.
    Last edited by B. Dandelion; 2012-07-13 at 11:50 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #1130
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    I saw on one of the recent updates a mention of there being misprinted coloring books, but I don't quite understand what the misprint is that I should be looking for. Is it just a case of repeated/missing pages?
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Anyone whose reason for pledging was, "This means I will get this book before it's back in stores!" is someone who should rethink joining another Kickstarter of what they believe the nature of this one to be--enough to confirm or deny that that is actually the case.
    Actually, there are quite a few Kickstarters out there that explicitly state that backers get the goods before they hit the stores.

  22. - Top - End - #1132
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Okay. And?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  23. - Top - End - #1133
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Not to take the conversation away from arguing about pre-orders or something, but does anybody know what "Electronic Shipping Info Received" means? I got my shipping e-mail almost two weeks ago, it changed to that message when tracking on July 8, and I have yet to receive anything. I know two weeks isn't a long time, but it seems like everybody else has received their package within days of getting the e-mail.
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by onthetown View Post
    does anybody know what "Electronic Shipping Info Received" means?
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  25. - Top - End - #1135
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    OK, there is a lot of misinformation going on here.

    Ookoodook has no part in the process of getting books to retail stores. None. They never touch them. Those books went straight from the printer to Impressions, the company I use as my broker for retail channel sales. Impressions then solicits orders to distributors like Alliance and Diamond, who buy the books in bulk and sell them to game stores. Ookoodook is never involved. So if you want to be mad about books on game store shelves, be mad at ME, not Ookoodook. Their only crime is not shipping faster, and they're doing the best they can.

    Now, I held the books for two extra weeks after I shipped them to Ookoodook before I shipped to Impressions, because I thought shipping out to backers would take about a month total, and it would take that long for the books to work their way down the chain to stores. As it turned out, Ookoodook's task was a lot harder than anyone thought, and it took way longer. But once I shipped those books to Impressions, I had no control over them anymore. I can't call up Alliance and tell them, "Hey, stop taking orders because my direct mail partner can't keep up." Alliance is in direct competition with online sales channels like Ook; they have every reason to get those books out as fast as possible. And given that they're a huge company and Ook has like 4 employees, they succeeded.

    So no one ever made the choice to send books to stores before sending out KS rewards. I (and I alone) made the choice to send them out to Impresstions with only a slight delay from Ookoodook, and the efficiency of those larger companies erased that lead and then surged past it. There's nothing I can do about that, except try to give them more of a gap next time.

    But all that being said, if you supported the KS drive because you thought you were going to get products first, that's on you. I never promised that. I never even hinted at that. What I said was that you would get them, and by getting them you would help put them back on store shelves. And you would get a bunch of bonus goodies in the process. All of that is still true. It's not my fault if anyone made assumptions otherwise, and if the lesson learned is to read Kickstarter projects more carefully to understand exactly what is (and what is not) being promised? Good.
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  26. - Top - End - #1136
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    To use the pizza analogy that's going around: I order five pizzas, each with a different configuration of toppings, and tell them to be sent to five different locations all over town (when they have only one pizza oven and one delivery boy). Then, twenty minutes later, I call a completely different pizza shop with a bigger oven and ask them to send five plain pizzas to the location across the street. If the plain pizzas arrive before the others do, how is that the fault of either pizzeria? Blame me, if you want, for ordering the plain pizza too soon. But don't blame the people eating the plain pizzas (the game stores), or the people who were making the complicated pizzas (Ookoodook).
    Rich Burlew



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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    I saw on one of the recent updates a mention of there being misprinted coloring books, but I don't quite understand what the misprint is that I should be looking for. Is it just a case of repeated/missing pages?
    I too am wondering, what was misprinted. Is there specific page(s) that are misprinted, or a description of the misprint(s) so that we know what to look for?
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  28. - Top - End - #1138
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    The misprint is very obvious. It consists of having half the book repeating twice, with the other half missing. If all of your pages are different, you don't have a misprint.
    Rich Burlew



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  29. - Top - End - #1139
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    I am still waiting for mine, but that is OK because it has Sticky Schticks and it's overseas. However, I am GLaD that Rich has come to clear the issue. The only nagging thing with all that conversation is that now I crave some pizza.

    I ordered at the $16 level (upgraded from $10 when Sticky Shticks was offered), but mainly because I already own all the books so far, and I couldn't afford a lot. If anything, I was thinking on rebuying No Cure, because I have the early one missing a couple of Haley's translations. I decided against pledging for that because being overseas made it too expensive with shipping (which again, is not Rich's fault).

    In any case, what we achieved in this campaign is great. Let's keep it great, ok?
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  30. - Top - End - #1140
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

    Quote Originally Posted by Brahamut View Post
    Keep in mind that the tracking program sometimes doesn't update correctly (if at all), so your loot may be in transit. If it's been at this status for two weeks, I'd be concerned. I'd contact USPS first to see if the system just hasn't updated yet.
    I called the customer service line and could only talk to a machine, which told me that tracking information (or confirmation) for my package, since it's international, is unavailable. So I might head down to the post office tomorrow and see if they have anything, but I haven't received any sort of card in the mail that would indicate somebody tried to deliver a package...
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