The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

[Ted The Bug]

I heard there's sometimes a doodle along with the signature, was that the case? (I already had the books, so I just got the $25 package)

[Savannah]

Yep, an OotS character with every signature.

[factotum]

I got Roy with mine, along with the text 1/13--which I assume is a date, rather than something indicating I got 1 out of 13 Roys?

[Lissou]

I got Roy with mine, along with the text 1/13--which I assume is a date, rather than something indicating I got 1 out of 13 Roys?

Yes, the month and year appear, so in your case January 2013.

[Ted The Bug]

Yep, an OotS character with every signature.

Dang, wish I'd had the funding for more. Totally would've gotten a SSaDT or SoD signed. Any chance there's a picture of one floating around these parts?

[Kobold-Bard]

Dang, wish I'd had the funding for more. Totally would've gotten a SSaDT or SoD signed. Any chance there's a picture of one floating around these parts?

Here's the Thog from my War & XPs

Spoiler

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[Procyonpi]

I got Elan in NCfBP and Belkar in WaXP.

[TLhikan]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but will there be a place that we can buy the bonus PDFs etc. if we arrived late to the OOTS and couldn't contribute?

[factotum]

It's been suggested that they might be bound into a book K at some point in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath for that--the Giant's thumb injury last year put a major spanner in the works, which is why we didn't get the Belkar PDF until relatively recently. He certainly can't think about producing a book of that material until it's all been provided to Kickstarter backers.

[ChristianSt]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but will there be a place that we can buy the bonus PDFs etc. if we arrived late to the OOTS and couldn't contribute?

The most recent official comment on this topic I remember was right after the Kickstarter finished:

Now, in an attempt to get one of the most frequently asked questions out of the way: if you missed the pledge drive deadline, no, you can't pledge now. I'm sorry about that, but I don't have the means to take your pledge and include it in the Kickstarter system—and even if I could, I'm not sure it would be fair to the people who may have struggled to get their pledge in on time.
All of the books will be available on Ookoodook once they are reprinted, so you can still order them then. If you're desperate for the swag, we will be putting whatever we have leftover once we fulfill all the orders up on Ookoodook, so keep an eye out for any leftover stickers, notepads, and coloring books over the summer. But the patches are not going to be available to non-backers at all; we may have a way for backers to buy extras if we have any left over, but that's it.
As far as the PDF stories, I'm sure most of them will be available in print at some point, even if they are spread out over a few different books.

Short:
PDFs: Someday - hopefully - in book-form (go, Book K!). I haven't heard a comment about whether it will be possible to buy them in pdf-form.

ETC.: You can buy some at Ookoodook

[Procyonpi]

I'm pretty sure Rich has said he's not really comfortable with the PDF model because it's not secure. In any case, I like to be able to hold things when I'm reading them.

[theangelJean]

Actually:

• These stories will be available in print someday for everyone else who didn't back, so if you don't have them now and you think you're likely to buy the book in which they appear...don't read any further!

So you will be able to read the bonus stories eventually - when they come out in book form. However the Giant has also posted (on Reddit) that he does not intend to make any of the printed material generally available in digital format (even for sale), and I assume he intends the same for these stories - ie. for the PDFs to remain exclusive to backers. He gives detailed reasons for not selling PDFs on his reddit page here. (This is reddit so there is one political comment and a swear word there which you won't find on giantitp.com.)

[ChristianSt]

I know what the Giant has said about selling PDFs (though I haven't heard anything about security issues in this regard).

But since these exists already in this form (and a large(?) chunk of people (already/will) have them), I think it is possible that enough parameters have changed to make an exception in this case (and opinions can change). [For the record: I also like books, I would instantly buy a book K - but I'm not such a big fan of exclusive stuff, so I would like if anybody would be able to buy the PDFs]

But the only one that can tell us that is the Giant himself, speculating about it doesn't do really that much. (So for now I would say: I wouldn't plan on it, but as with many things, nothing is set in stone)

[Cerlis]

I know what the Giant has said about selling PDFs (though I haven't heard anything about security issues in this regard).

But since these exists already in this form (and a large(?) chunk of people (already/will) have them), I think it is possible that enough parameters have changed to make an exception in this case (and opinions can change). [For the record: I also like books, I would instantly buy a book K - but I'm not such a big fan of exclusive stuff, so I would like if anybody would be able to buy the PDFs]

But the only one that can tell us that is the Giant himself, speculating about it doesn't do really that much. (So for now I would say: I wouldn't plan on it, but as with many things, nothing is set in stone)

the only risk of the exclusive pdfs is if someone contributed for the sole reason of copying and reselling the pdfs, or if someone later became inclined to do so.

If they where online for anyone to buy you just need one professional scammer to hear about it and you are -Guaranteed- to have it pirated. And judging by how many people download DnD books it would probably be fully capable of killing the selling of the books (as opposed to the notion of a rock star losing enough money that he has to sell one of his jets).

Cynical side of me aside, I can honestly say that i think everyone who Did contribute and watches their emails enough to get the stories appreciates it enough to not do that.

[TLhikan]

Short:
PDFs: Someday - hopefully - in book-form (go, Book K!). I haven't heard a comment about whether it will be possible to buy them in pdf-form.

That works for me; I would actually rather have them in book form anyway. Thanks for the answer .

[ChristianSt]

the only risk of the exclusive pdfs is if someone contributed for the sole reason of copying and reselling the pdfs, or if someone later became inclined to do so.

If they where online for anyone to buy you just need one professional scammer to hear about it and you are -Guaranteed- to have it pirated. And judging by how many people download DnD books it would probably be fully capable of killing the selling of the books (as opposed to the notion of a rock star losing enough money that he has to sell one of his jets).

Cynical side of me aside, I can honestly say that i think everyone who Did contribute and watches their emails enough to get the stories appreciates it enough to not do that.

The problem with this argument is: Anti-pirating stuff isn't really going to work. There is enough products with DRM* of all kinds that still gets pirated nevertheless (and being exclusive online doesn't help either, there is more than enough stuff pirated that isn't regularly available online). I think everybody would be much better by just putting their resources in something useful and stop worrying about pirates instead of trying to enforce DRM that doesn't do anything useful at all (and sometimes even causes real trouble). [Although I can't say for sure that the bonus-PDFs will be pirated, I wouldn't be really surprised if they will]

*I know that the Bonus story don't have any kind of DRM (which is good!). But I think DRM is bad enough (and close enough to the pirate topic), that ranting about it doesn't hurt.


Rich's Argument on the other hand is perfectly reasonably: I can't judge whether an online-version of the books would cripple the paper-sales, BUT I can understand that this could happen (and before risking to have no paper-books, I find it much better to have no online-books - maybe in the future it could be worth to try it, and I think this already somewhat-available-online content could be the right time to try it).

[ThePhantasm]

I'm pretty sure Rich has said he's not really comfortable with the PDF model because it's not secure. In any case, I like to be able to hold things when I'm reading them.

Rich has given his reasons for disliking digital PDF downloads, and his business model is not up for discussion here.

Suffice to say, digital pdf downloads are not in the works at this time. My concerns are not piracy; the majority of people who are not willing to pay for content simply don't read the stuff that doesn't get posted here, and the rest, I can't stop. No, my concern is that printing is a very difficult business with very, VERY thin margins of profit compared to the amount of money invested. And those margins are mostly dictated by the economy of scale: printing 5000 copies of a book may only cost 30% less than printing 10,000, and printing 20,000 may only cost 60% more. But they all sell for the same price. So, my printing business only functions if I can sell ALL of the copies that I print, and I estimate the print run as exactly as possible.

Releasing books digitally messes with both of those needs. I can't predict how many people will buy digitally (polls are worthless), and I can't sell a paper copy to someone who has bought a digital one. If half of my predicted customers buy digital instead of paper, then the cost of each paper copy skyrockets and I can't afford to print them anymore. And contrary to what people think, not everyone wants to buy digital.

In the end, I want my books to be, well, BOOKS. I am therefore willing to sacrifice the few digital sales (and I do believe them to be relatively few, since my work is online already anyway) in order to keep my paper business in business.

Now, having answered that: This thread is not about my business model. I am not looking for business advice, and I'm not keen on people tell me I'm doing something wrong just because I'm not doing what they want me to do. Stop it.

[Roland St. Jude]

Rich has given his reasons for disliking digital PDF downloads, and his business model is not up for discussion here.

Sheriff: Well-said. Let's drop that particular part of the conversation now.

[Duskranger]

I wonder how the rest of the rewards are going. I mean it's spring again so perfect time for summer/autumn mini's in a short time. I can't wait.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hmm... We're at 50 pages. Do we start a new Strip 882 thread?

[factotum]

Hmm... We're at 50 pages. Do we start a new Strip 882 thread?

Not sure how that would help, considering this is the post-Kickstarter discussion thread...

[Sunken Valley]

Is the Kickstarter still happening? We haven't had an update for over 6 weeks, haven't heard how the thumb's doing after 5 weeks and haven't recieved any commentary on it's progress since Early March (end of the 9 in a row). Does anyone have any knowledge of it still running (autographed packages dated 3/13, stick it to you's, crayon drawings)

I assume Rich is focusing on the comic as we have had two double pagers and got a new comic last week but I would like to know.

I'm not angry, it is a query.

[Roland St. Jude]

Is the Kickstarter still happening?...

I'm not angry, it is a query.

Yes.

I'm not angry either, but this question strikes me as needlessly provocative. As asked, this question suggests that one possible answer is that Kickstarter fulfillment is not happening any more and been abandoned somehow. Perhaps you meant "has anyone received anything lately?" or something similar that doesn't imply Rich has closed shop.

Sheriff: Please let's not have any more comments like that, well-meaning or otherwise.

[Sunken Valley]

Perhaps you meant "has anyone received anything lately?" or something similar that doesn't imply Rich has closed shop.

I did. That is better wording. Thank you.

[Chronos]

Y'know, I was just looking over my new druid character (first session is this Friday), and thinking, hm, he could really put a lot of creatures on the battlefield, between his animal companion and summons. I could just borrow miniatures from my gaming buddies, but they never have quite the right ones, and using a krenshaw for a dire badger just isn't satisfying.

But then I said to myself, wait, what about that PDF of monster minis I got from the OotS kickstarter?

Thanks, Giant! These are perfect for a druid! It's really fortuitous that the first batch was the one with all the woodland critters and fey, straight off the Summon Nature's Ally lists. I'm sure to be the envy of my table with these!

[Chronos]

Oh, I should also add that the male dwarf druid in the set looks exactly like my mental image of my character. Well, exactly like a Stickified version of my character, at least.

[Procyonpi]

I should confess that I've never played DnD with actually miniatures, just coins and bottlecaps.

[R00kie]

Is the Kickstarter still happening? We haven't had an update for over 6 weeks, haven't heard how the thumb's doing after 5 weeks and haven't recieved any commentary on it's progress since Early March (end of the 9 in a row).

Simple answer. 'Yes'. I take any quiet time as good news because it means he's busy doing other stuff - like Backer Choice pdfs, or taking a break and letting ideas percolate. Like you I'm still waiting, but I appreciate that great work takes time and that stuff which benefits the most people should come first.

It will be a pleasant surprise when my stuff does turn up - so I'm not worried - I trust Rich.

Also, I personally cant think of anything worse than having a million dollars worth of stuff I'm committed to delivering and being constrained from delivering them (by Sir Thumb's defeat). Give Rich a break.

[theangelJean]

On the comments page for our Kickstarter, someone has reported receiving their Stick It To You digital package.

(Edit: I only just noticed - after reading the comment a few times - that they used the digital portrait as their Kickstarter avatar. Yay!)

I hope some people will show theirs here! Although I guess I'm really hanging out for people to post their crayon drawings (which are less likely to include real people), and I'm guessing Rich hasn't started on those yet.

Plus, I'd love to know where the $750 "Wink, Wink" donations went/are going.

[Lissou]

I wonder how it would work for them, legally, actually. I mean, I would love to see the digital and crayon drawings that were sent specifically to one person, but I wonder, is it considered "theirs" so they can show it online to anyone they want, or is it Rich's, since he's the artist after all, and if so is his permission needed to share it with so many people at once? I don't know how copyrights and trademarks work with commissions and original art...