In a zombie apocalpyse

[SDF]

Not at the army base.

[Cobra_Ikari]

...I have -48.3 degrees Celsius as the lowest recorded temperature at Fort Wainwright, Alaska. >.>

[Tyndmyr]

I missed the original temperature quote, but there's a difference between locally observed temperature and record cold temperature.

For instance, I had the dubious pleasure of living in northern minnesota when a local weather station recorded a -60 F temperature, and with wind chill in the local area, temps approached -100 F. However, a certain number of stations must record a temp for it to be an official record, so it wasn't counted, IIRC. Also, wind varied notably from location to location, so felt temperature varied pretty strongly. IIRC, the way effective temperature has been calculated has also changed, so there's a certain amount of squishyness depending on when we're talking about a given temp recording.

Regardless, minnesota is frigging cold, and you seriously shouldn't be spending notable time outside in weather like that unless you've prepped extensively for it. It can be assumed that zombies will not be at all functional in such weather, even if they continue working normally afterward.

[dehro]

oddly enough I've found that I "function" better at -10/-15°C than I do at 0°C... is that a thing, or was I just feeling particularily perky that day?

[Karoht]

oddly enough I've found that I "function" better at -10/-15°C than I do at 0°C... is that a thing, or was I just feeling particularily perky that day?

Your body is burning more energy as well as probably boosting certain hormones as well. The two together make many people feel better.

[Ravens_cry]

Not to mention that temperature that cold tells your body to get moving keep warm, huddling and shivverring won't cut it.
So basically you're probably on a bit of an adrenalin buzz as well as other hormones.
***
I've sad this before and I'll say it again, screw cars and motorbikes which are noisy, which in many setting attracts the undead hordes, mechanically complex and require resources that is in increasingly short supply in a post apocalyptic scenario just to basically function.
Instead, the smart survivor rides bicycles. They are, simply put, over roads the most mechanically efficient means of transport. With minimal effort you can out pace any lurcher and even a normal human and you're not making the kinds of noises that attract the hoards. And if you find yourself in gridlock from all the people trying to escape town, you can ride between, around and to the side of car clogged roads.
And unlike walking or running, no one is going to mistake your exhausted form for a lurcher.
I mean, when was the last time you saw zombies ride bicycles?

[Karoht]

Not to mention that temperature that cold tells your body to get moving keep warm, huddling and shivverring won't cut it.
So basically you're probably on a bit of an adrenalin buzz as well as other hormones.
***
I've sad this before and I'll say it again, screw cars and motorbikes which are noisy, which in many setting attracts the undead hordes, mechanically complex and require resources that is in increasingly short supply in a post apocalyptic scenario just to basically function.
Instead, the smart survivor rides bicycles. They are, simply put, over roads the most mechanically efficient means of transport. With minimal effort you can out pace any lurcher and even a normal human and you're not making the kinds of noises that attract the hoards. And if you find yourself in gridlock from all the people trying to escape town, you can ride between, around and to the side of car clogged roads.
And unlike walking or running, no one is going to mistake your exhausted form for a lurcher.
I mean, when was the last time you saw zombies ride bicycles?

Mountain Bike + Moped FTW!

[Objection]

And unlike walking or running, no one is going to mistake your exhausted form for a lurcher.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Still, you make an excellent point. It's a shame I can't ride a bicycle without training wheels.

[Ravens_cry]

Still, you make an excellent point. It's a shame I can't ride a bicycle without training wheels.

Time to get a learning. It's also pretty good exercise.
No one wants to be the out of shape guy or gal who slows down the whole group.

[Karoht]

Pedal-powered 4 wheel cart? Tricycles are also making a comeback these days.

[Solaris]

You are claiming a degree colder than the record low temperature on record, which occurred during the 1960's

And yet pretty much everyone I know who was in Wainwright at that time (winter of 07-08) remembers that day - and that very temperature. This leads me to believe I'm not misremembering it.

...I have -48.3 degrees Celsius as the lowest recorded temperature at Fort Wainwright, Alaska. >.>

I'm American. I use Fahrenheit until I start talking in the hundreds of degrees. Considering I know it got colder than -55 pretty much every winter... I think the emphasis should be on 'recorded'.

I'd have to say that what Tyndmyr said about the minimum number of stations reporting accounts for the discrepancies. It's the only thing I can come up with.

[Ravens_cry]

Pedal-powered 4 wheel cart? Tricycles are also making a comeback these days.

The only advantage for those quad-cycles I can see is potentially having more 'motors'. Been much less popular than bicycles, finding parts is going to be a doozy and you lose massively on the manoeuvrability.

[Killer Angel]

Step one: Clear the area. Find infected and deal with them. Find zombies and deal with them. Given our recent specialization in urban warfare, this would be easier for us than most other militaries.

The only real actual threat in urban warfare, could be posed by a well developed guerrilla tactic, made by local paramilitary civilian-look militia.
And I doubt the zombies qualify.

[Solaris]

The only real actual threat in urban warfare, could be posed by a well developed guerrilla tactic, made by local paramilitary civilian-look militia.
And I doubt the zombies qualify.

More the 'keep alert because it could suddenly be leaping out at you from inches away' type of paranoia you need to do well in that kind of a fight, combined with the familiarity of what to do in that kind of terrain. Moreso than other turf, urban turns three-dimensional real quick - and it comes with it the understanding that you'll be in hand-to-hand combat with little to no notice. Fighting in woodlands is almost relaxing compared to city-fighting.

[Traab]

More the 'keep alert because it could suddenly be leaping out at you from inches away' type of paranoia you need to do well in that kind of a fight, combined with the familiarity of what to do in that kind of terrain. Moreso than other turf, urban turns three-dimensional real quick - and it comes with it the understanding that you'll be in hand-to-hand combat with little to no notice. Fighting in woodlands is almost relaxing compared to city-fighting.

This. I wouldnt be surprised if there were several casualties a day from guys kicking down the doors only to find a zombie right alongside it lunging at them. It wouldnt be heavy losses, or even moderate, but there would be losses. And considering the annoyance of basically having to check every room, closet, basement, and attic of every building in the city, it would take a long time. Oh yeah, and resealing each building afterwards so nothing could wander in after you move on.

[Tyndmyr]

The only advantage for those quad-cycles I can see is potentially having more 'motors'. Been much less popular than bicycles, finding parts is going to be a doozy and you lose massively on the manoeuvrability.

I suppose there's a greater carrying capacity, allowing you to lug larger objects than solo bicyclists can, I guess. This is strictly theoretical, I've only ever used regular bikes, but hauling heavy things post-apoc is definitely a niche for those with some sort of vehicle operating. Not being fuel reliant is kind of nice for that.

[Ravens_cry]

I suppose there's a greater carrying capacity, allowing you to lug larger objects than solo bicyclists can, I guess. This is strictly theoretical, I've only ever used regular bikes, but hauling heavy things post-apoc is definitely a niche for those with some sort of vehicle operating. Not being fuel reliant is kind of nice for that.

Assuming I had the expertise to take care of them, I'd get some oat burners if I needed to haul lot's of supplies.

[dehro]

I suppose there's a greater carrying capacity, allowing you to lug larger objects than solo bicyclists can, I guess. This is strictly theoretical, I've only ever used regular bikes, but hauling heavy things post-apoc is definitely a niche for those with some sort of vehicle operating. Not being fuel reliant is kind of nice for that.

there are means of transport that aren't fuel reliant and can carry craploads of stuff

horses.

[Solaris]

there are means of transport that aren't fuel reliant and can carry craploads of stuff

horses.

They are, it's just that their fuel is more widely available.

[Solaris]

there are means of transport that aren't fuel reliant and can carry craploads of stuff

horses.

They are, it's just that their fuel is more widely available.

[dehro]

They are, it's just that their fuel is more widely available.

true of course...then again, that was kind of my point. I see a lot of advantages in taking a horse over a quad, fuelwise.

[Solaris]

true of course...then again, that was kind of my point. I see a lot of advantages in taking a horse over a quad, fuelwise.

I work for LTs. Unless it's actually stated, I can't take for granted that he knows it. Common sense being uncommon and whatnot. A horse's food requirements are not inconsequential, especially if you're moving a lot.

[Murska]

Zombies might freak horses out too. Or maybe they can get zombified.

[Traab]

I would just stick with a regular bike. Maybe find a way to modify it to hold some extra baggage. Motorcycles of any type are LOUD. Loud is bad when you are trying to avoid attracting a zombie swarm. Plus there are a million ways they can break down that the average joe cant fix, while bikes are generally much easier. Bring a spare tire tube and chain and thats 90% of all potential bike problems fixed. Plus getting fuel for a motorcycle is harder simply due to the fact that it means you will have to head back into residential areas. Areas that are likely going to be choked with vehicles all over the roads, and zombies. Bikes are very slender and can more easily weave in and out of any traffic snarls or go offroad when needed.

[dehro]

I work for LTs. Unless it's actually stated, I can't take for granted that he knows it. Common sense being uncommon and whatnot. A horse's food requirements are not inconsequential, especially if you're moving a lot.

I've owned horses in the past.. yeah..they eat a lot, but grazing covers much of that need. provided of course you don't live in the desert or somesuch.

Zombies might freak horses out too. Or maybe they can get zombified.

I'm kinda suggesting horses also because of their keen senses... their reaction at smelling zombies could work as early warning system..then again, they do need to identify a zombie as a menace to do so, which isn't a given.


also, I've just come to the realisation that if zombies have a "shelf life" of weeks, a month or 2 tops, I don't really need to plan anything other than going home and locking the door.
the windows in my house need a hammer or pickaxe to be broken, and the front door can only be opened by a locksmith or someone armed with a big bag of tools. I can use the fireplace for heating and/or cooking, I've got enough supplies to last for several weeks, a month maybe if I stretch things out and start rationing immediately... I live on top of a hill with about another 20/30 families in walking distance..so..not all that many zombies, all considered..also, they're likely going to be attracted by the more populated areas.. I have a pile of books that need reading...
assuming zombies don't operate tools, I can just wait for them to move off and/or die out, in the comfort of my living room.

[Solaris]

I've owned horses in the past.. yeah..they eat a lot, but grazing covers much of that need. provided of course you don't live in the desert or somesuch.

Right, and it follows that the horse is gonna need a fair amount of space to graze in which you need to secure if you want to keep your horse. I assume you're using the horse to move from Point A to Point B, which necessitates ensuring a steady supply of food for the horse while you're moving.

I'm kinda suggesting horses also because of their keen senses... their reaction at smelling zombies could work as early warning system..then again, they do need to identify a zombie as a menace to do so, which isn't a given.

They tend to go for flight more than fight, don't they? I think I'd prefer a dog. At least the dog will think "Oh crap, gotta go - where's my person!?", while I don't trust a horse to think beyond "Oh crap, gotta go!"

also, I've just come to the realisation that if zombies have a "shelf life" of weeks, a month or 2 tops, I don't really need to plan anything other than going home and locking the door.
the windows in my house need a hammer or pickaxe to be broken, and the front door can only be opened by a locksmith or someone armed with a big bag of tools. I can use the fireplace for heating and/or cooking, I've got enough supplies to last for several weeks, a month maybe if I stretch things out and start rationing immediately... I live on top of a hill with about another 20/30 families in walking distance..so..not all that many zombies, all considered..also, they're likely going to be attracted by the more populated areas.. I have a pile of books that need reading...
assuming zombies don't operate tools, I can just wait for them to move off and/or die out, in the comfort of my living room.

Yeah, but where's the fun in that?

[dehro]

Right, and it follows that the horse is gonna need a fair amount of space to graze in which you need to secure if you want to keep your horse. I assume you're using the horse to move from Point A to Point B, which necessitates ensuring a steady supply of food for the horse while you're moving.

They tend to go for flight more than fight, don't they? I think I'd prefer a dog. At least the dog will think "Oh crap, gotta go - where's my person!?", while I don't trust a horse to think beyond "Oh crap, gotta go!"

Yeah, but where's the fun in that?

in inverted order:
true that

there are ways to stop horses from randomly bolting, but I wasn't really supporting the cause of using a horse as a zombie detection mechanism..just as one way of getting around without having to get into towns for fuel.. which neatly brings me to the next issue...

yes, I would need to be careful about the whole letting the horse graze bit.. but there's the thing... if I were to grab a horse to use as transport towards my safe haven (more accurately, the nearest harbour from which to steal a boat), I'd stay clear from the roads as much as possible (also to keep the feet of the horse in working order..asphalt plays havoc with hoofs)..and zombies aren't likely to be scouting the countryside...since their main prey would still be in towns and such. there's plenty of open countryside where I expect to be at the very least able to see them coming, should I even encounter a zombie.
that, and in a few days of careful travel on horseback I'd reach the shore. it's not like I'm conquering the West or somesuch.. I won't be underway for weeks...horses can deal with a few days of nibbles instead of full meals.

[Coidzor]

Horses also have the advantage of being able to turn on you or panic at any time, even if it's the best trained horse in the world.

And there's few times where you want to be alone and with a broken back because the horse randomly panicked at encountering the long-since passed scent of a wolf or cougar than while zombies are in the woods.

The funny thing is that my friend's mom who is still having life-long medical issues from the horse throwing her and her barely surviving still loves that particular ass of a horse despite that being only one of multiple occasions where it tried to kill her dead.

Horses are insane and as dangerous to their riders and keepers as an entire pack of shamblers at least.

[dehro]

I've been bitten, kicked and had my foot stepped on a few times, by horses..
still love them
on the whole the majority aren't quite as messed up and skittish as you depict them.

[Ravens_cry]

I think your exaggerating *just* a little, or humans wouldn't have used them as a prime mover for the past several thousand years.