LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!

[The Shadowmind]

I have nothing to report, other than that I am still alive.
Rain, is still being updated.

Got my new Headset finally. First USB one I've had, always had analog before.

[Arachu]

*sneaks up to Arachu*

*stealth-snuggle*

... I think I just failed a Spot - OH GOD ASSASSIN NOT IN THE FACE! *judo-glomp*

What if you're too stealthy and she doesn't notice D:

*joins*

~ ♅

*Distributes snuggles appropriately*

Drunk = Wild Card, personalities can be 200% more fun, or -200% more fun. 50% violence is also possible.

Hell, even the violence can be fun sometimes - ever see a guy angrily stabbing a dart into a dartboard he can't hit?

But I... And... Lonely...

How dare we not know about this in advance - *tackleglomp!*

Sometimes I'm awestruck that I can't bother to make a new avatar. I've had this one for a year now.

Now I just want to change to Inspector Cabanela...

I've had this one for like... Two years? Since a little while before my laptop died.

I've been meaning to make a more feminine version (technically not "female version", considering how (as an Elf) she may be one already ), but I keep getting distracted from figuring out Inkscape. :shrug:

Good lord! *Hits ground faster than ground ever has been hit*.

I think that technically you'd only hit the ground if she happened to be moving towards it during the glomping, though you could also hit the ground on some other planet in the way eventually...

I'm gonna force my brother to take at least one picture of Andrew and I kissing.

Yes.

[Coidzor]

Hell, even the violence can be fun sometimes - ever see a guy angrily stabbing a dart into a dartboard he can't hit?

Granted. Still, it's probably not the best thing for a St. Paddy's Day Date.

[golentan]

Granted. Still, it's probably not the best thing for a St. Paddy's Day Date.

Right. St. Paddy's day dating should be about wondering whether your date has dyed ALL their hair green.

[Astrella]

*snip*

Ooh, ooh, I want to make you an avi!

[Kindablue]

Drunk = Wild Card, personalities can be 200% more fun, or -200% more fun. 50% violence is also possible.

Old Bill Cosby joke is old.

[Arachu]

Ooh, ooh, I want to make you an avi!

I wanna say yes, but I don't know what to swap around...


Gah! I just bit my tongue for the first time in years! D:

[Lea Plath]

Sounds like it is gonna be a good date. Don't let anyone ruin it!

And I have never seen a Saint Paddys anything. Might because I think in yorkshire.

[golentan]

So, random question. Are lesbian couples more likely to be open about it than gay couples? I see a lot of openly lesbian couples in my area, but seeing two guys who are obviously into each other is rarer (and thus more of a d'aaw moment for me). By open I mean things like holding hands, flirting, making with the puppy eyes, etc.

Ah, memories. I'd like to see "pretty eyes guy" again.

[Heliomance]

...so, I've been a moron.
Playing Hanako's path made me realise something important. Spoiled for spoilers:

Spoiler

Show

I didn't spot the main issue until it was spelled out right at the end. I didn't realise that Hisao's white knight behaviour was part of the problem, because that's exactly how I would have reacted. Aside from the awkward sex of awkwardness, I would have done pretty much everything he did in that situation.

I have a driving need to help my friends when I see them in pain. But I don't treat them as friends when I do that. I treat them as fragile, delicate creatures that need to be protected. And I can't help but think it stems from a need to be needed in myself. Playing that path reminded me that friendship needs to be a relationship of equals - and that bending down to lift someone out of the dirt is not equality.

This should probably have been in the RWA thread, but frankly, this is my home on Giant a lot more.
Thanks to whoever first linked KS. Without it, it would have taken me a lot longer to come to this realisation, if I ever did.

[golentan]

...so, I've been a moron.
Playing Hanako's path made me realise something important. Spoiled for spoilers:

Spoiler

Show

I didn't spot the main issue until it was spelled out right at the end. I didn't realise that Hisao's white knight behaviour was part of the problem, because that's exactly how I would have reacted. Aside from the awkward sex of awkwardness, I would have done pretty much everything he did in that situation.

I have a driving need to help my friends when I see them in pain. But I don't treat them as friends when I do that. I treat them as fragile, delicate creatures that need to be protected. And I can't help but think it stems from a need to be needed in myself. Playing that path reminded me that friendship needs to be a relationship of equals - and that bending down to lift someone out of the dirt is not equality.

This should probably have been in the RWA thread, but frankly, this is my home on Giant a lot more.
Thanks to whoever first linked KS. Without it, it would have taken me a lot longer to come to this realisation, if I ever did.

Something I'll say from my experience. You can be the Knight, and still be the Friend. I will admit, I get off on helping people. I've taken beatings for strangers, I always feel like there's something I should do to help my partners, I signed up for a Bone Marrow Donor registry today, etc. etc. You don't have to, and in fact shouldn't stand idly by while friends suffer. If you see a friend's fallen, you can give them a hand up. If you see someone about to beat a friend down, you can take that hit for them. The trick is to, when the crisis is past, make sure that the friend knows how to take care of themselves. Teach them how to pick themselves up next time, teach them how to take the hit. The time after that, let them deal with it on their own, but be there to help if they still REALLY need it (not just because doing what needs to be done is hard, but because they can't). They'll usually learn from the judicious use of example and trial and error, and pretty soon you're there as a mutual failsafe system for each other rather than a mother hen and dependent.

Then, when the next crisis hits, you can both be knights for the victim. And having someone to go kick some backside righteous paladin tag-team style is the bestest thing ever.

[Last_resort_33]

I have a driving need to help my friends when I see them in pain. But I don't treat them as friends when I do that. I treat them as fragile, delicate creatures that need to be protected. And I can't help but think it stems from a need to be needed in myself. Playing that path reminded me that friendship needs to be a relationship of equals - and that bending down to lift someone out of the dirt is not equality.

Yeah... This...

What is harder is when you build a relationship on this principal... And then you need help yourself...

But it feels so nice being the Level 20 paladin with armour of shining +5!

Ohai... I'm in this thread now... I've never actually posted in it before... I usually just lurk...

[pffh]

So, random question. Are lesbian couples more likely to be open about it than gay couples? I see a lot of openly lesbian couples in my area, but seeing two guys who are obviously into each other is rarer (and thus more of a d'aaw moment for me). By open I mean things like holding hands, flirting, making with the puppy eyes, etc.

Ah, memories. I'd like to see "pretty eyes guy" again.

Ah pretty eyes they are indeed awesome. That's why I love my deep blue eyes that apparantly can hypnotize random people that fall into the trap of staring deep into them even if I'm not even looking at them. Why yes I'm proud of having incredibly pretty eyes

[KenderWizard]

What. I mean, I say misogynistic things as a kind of ironic humor, but I do my best to show that I'm being sarcastic. (Of course then there's the problem of extremist views and satire of extremist views being very similar in appearance.) But making a sexist joke and then saying, "Oh wait but it's okay because you're not a real girl," is totally different. I'd rather they just make the sexist jokes and leave it at that.

Usually it's more generalisations than jokes. Like "Gamer girls are no good at X". And I'm like "I'm right here!"

It's the difference between support and commitment. A person can (and typically will) support many more causes than ze is committed to. I support feminism and the fight against racism, sanism, ablism, etc... but I'm really only personally committed to battling transphobia. And the reason is very simple - there are only 24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week. It's more effective to divide the labor and specialize in one or a few fields. And then have a few who transcend the boundaries between fields and coordinate when necessary.

But I'd like to discuss to what extent we should accept that people are imperfect and will have irrational prejudices and to what extent we should cleanse our organizations of prejudiced people. Any thoughts?

How about: You can think what you like, although we encourage you to reflect on your own privileges, but your rights end where the next person's begin. Everyone's welcome and you have to at least try to be polite.

Your initial statements suggested a scenario more along these lines to me.

Feminist: Trans people are welcome here.
Trans person: *goes online, reads some blogs*
Bigot: *poorly spelled, inarticulate hate speech blog*

Trans person: You're [redacted], Feminist.
Feminist: wat

That, and if a feminist space is actively reaching out to trans people then it stands to reason that it would be unlikely to actively be out to waste its efforts by being bigoted to them as a body or to sanction members of that body doing it individually.

Yes. I'm reasonably sure this one happens less often.

This dovetails beautifully with the discussion of nonwhites in nerddom. In theory, they're embraced with open arms. So long as they understand that they'll be judged against stereotypes by every new person they meet. And tokenized the hell out of. And understand that they're always peripheral to discussions about the people who really matter.

I'm not even touching on the race/culture intersection, where someone who grew up in an overwhelmingly latino community will come from a different place than someone who grew up in an overwhelmingly korean one. Only pointing out that "welcoming" means a lot more than leaving out a welcome mat and dialing back the obvious slurs.

Very good points. And applicable to a lot of theoretically-welcoming groups and how they behave towards a lot of people.

One could point out that both women and children are generally seen as ornamental. And check their assumptions by asking how often it happens to female CEOs, really twinky gay guys, dwarfs, etc. But anybody asking for more than the anecdotes (pardon, "lived experiences") of a few women is clearly a pawn of the patriarchy, seeking to silence women's voices.

You know, I'm thinking you preempt any actual engagement with feminists by being needlessly aggressive so then they don't like you and you can feel satisfied that "feminists are angry and irrational". Because would it really have been so hard to say "Is it documented that women are told to smile by strangers more often than average/other disadvantaged groups?", rather than assuming if you did, I or another feminist would get cross with you.

And you know what? Even if it "just" happens to girly women, "twinky" gay people, children and other disadvantaged people, and it doesn't happen to "tough" women, that is still a feminist issue! Clearly it happens to plenty of women. Street harassment is well documented, if you need more than the tidal wave of women's stories about it, and being told to do something by a stranger is street harassment.

We were just video chatting for 2.5 hours.

Also, I just realized my date is on Saint Patty's Day. My therapist warned me to be careful around all the drunk Irish Catholics (I actually added the catholic bit from my own knowledge of my Irish heritage) especially with my homosexuality.

Oh weird! I thought it was a myth that people called it "St Patty's Day". Isn't Patty the female version? Do you call Irish people Pattys instead of Paddys?

Also, f**king depressed as hell that people would warn other people to be careful around the drunk Irish. Don't know what your Catholics are like, but Ireland is more culturally Catholic than religiously so these days.

Drunk = Wild Card, personalities can be 200% more fun, or -200% more fun. 50% violence is also possible.

Irish = Not going there, I'm Irish m'self, but you get what I'm implying. Same for Catholics.

Drunk + Irish + Catholic = Keep your distance, and a bottle of Jack Daniels (BAIT!) handy. I call them "Jack-of-all-'nades" .

You know (a) I'm right here! I'm not being all "Americans ... want to watch out. I like to keep an American flag and a gun handy as bait to distract them!" And (b) Jack Daniels? Really? Again, maybe the American-Irish are different, but in my hierarchy of whiskey, Jack comes somewhere below "Never mind then, I'll just have a healthy glass of water."

[Lither]

Hi again everyone. Since our last conversation I've tried to act on the advice people here have selfelssly given. And it's worked, somewhat.

Yah know, trigger warning for strong bigotry. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Spoiler

Show

Family problems have stayed the same. Nothing new here. Same with pyschological problems, though that belongs in a different thread.

I've tried to be open to my best friend about my asexuality (naturally ending up public knowledge in my community because that's just the way my friends keep secrets), and now he has decided that I'm some peculiar specimine that requires further questioning. Quite a lot of it, and mostly it's just him trying to trip me up, although some others are things like "Yes, but you're asexual. You're just as ****** up as the rest of them [by that he means non-heteronormative people].". Which brings me to my next point.

That same friend and a few others I have, however, is extremely openly bigoted (I only really found out in the last week when he decided that I share his hatred because of my asexuality *logicfail* .

I'm asking for how I can convince them to either stop being so bigoted or at the very least stop being so offensive about it. I'm quite honestly thinking about just leaving our friendship behind. Bigotry of any form really, really annoys me.

[Last_resort_33]

Spoiler

Show

Family problems have stayed the same. Nothing new here. Same with pyschological problems, though that belongs in a different thread.

I've tried to be open to my best friend about my asexuality (naturally ending up public knowledge in my community because that's just the way my friends keep secrets), and now he has decided that I'm some peculiar specimine that requires further questioning. Quite a lot of it, and mostly it's just him trying to trip me up, although some others are things like "Yes, but you're asexual. You're just as ****** up as the rest of them [by that he means non-heteronormative people].". Which brings me to my next point.

That same friend and a few others I have, however, is extremely openly bigoted (I only really found out in the last week when he decided that I share his hatred because of my asexuality *logicfail* .

I'm asking for how I can convince them to either stop being so bigoted or at the very least stop being so offensive about it. I'm quite honestly thinking about just leaving our friendship behind.

There's an immediate "OMG Shock" thing that goes on... Once something has been explained to someone in its most basic form, then either one of two things generally happens... they're a bit stupid and ask stupid questions, in which case they're genuinely trying and just need to be told that you're not a test subject... That kind of friendship can be worth keeping depending on the person... keeping friends that are determined to be bigoted however is just detremental to your health...

[Lither]

There's an immediate "OMG Shock" thing that goes on... Once something has been explained to someone in its most basic form, then either one of two things generally happens... they're a bit stupid and ask stupid questions, in which case they're genuinely trying and just need to be told that you're not a test subject... That kind of friendship can be worth keeping depending on the person... keeping friends that are determined to be bigoted however is just detremental to your health...

It's been several weeks and they continue. It's not just directed at me, but at everyone else who doesn't fit their standard of "normal". I have this terrible feeling that I managed to bring it out into the open.

I will try to act on your advice, though. They've been friends for a long time and I really don't want to lose them at this moment.

[Last_resort_33]

It's been several weeks and they continue. It's not just directed at me, but at everyone else who doesn't fit their standard of "normal". I have this terrible feeling that I managed to bring it out into the open.

I will try to act on your advice, though. They've been friends for a long time and I really don't want to lose them at this moment.

You didn't lose them. They lost you... And they lost you the moment they decided to be an intolerant waste of oxygen...

[Qaera]

I signed up for a Bone Marrow Donor registry today

Hey, thanks a million! People like you helped save my dad's life!

~ ♅

[noparlpf]

So, random question. Are lesbian couples more likely to be open about it than gay couples? I see a lot of openly lesbian couples in my area, but seeing two guys who are obviously into each other is rarer (and thus more of a d'aaw moment for me). By open I mean things like holding hands, flirting, making with the puppy eyes, etc.

Ah, memories. I'd like to see "pretty eyes guy" again.

In high school I saw more out lesbians, and lesbian couples openly dating. I think I knew of one gay guy who was out, in a school of three thousand.

...so, I've been a moron.
Playing Hanako's path made me realise something important. Spoiled for spoilers:

Spoiler

Show

I didn't spot the main issue until it was spelled out right at the end. I didn't realise that Hisao's white knight behaviour was part of the problem, because that's exactly how I would have reacted. Aside from the awkward sex of awkwardness, I would have done pretty much everything he did in that situation.

I have a driving need to help my friends when I see them in pain. But I don't treat them as friends when I do that. I treat them as fragile, delicate creatures that need to be protected. And I can't help but think it stems from a need to be needed in myself. Playing that path reminded me that friendship needs to be a relationship of equals - and that bending down to lift someone out of the dirt is not equality.

This should probably have been in the RWA thread, but frankly, this is my home on Giant a lot more.
Thanks to whoever first linked KS. Without it, it would have taken me a lot longer to come to this realisation, if I ever did.

That poem was pretty.

Spoilers in case I spoil something while I ramble.

Spoiler

Show

I felt that was an issue for a large part of the path. Personally I would have handled things differently from how Hisao did. When I try to help my friends in a belittling way, I also try to make a joke out of it to try to show that I don't really think they're helpless and that I'm just trying to be nice. In Hanako's case, I would probably have been careful around her at first just because I didn't know her well. But one of my main issues with that route was that they didn't talk. Communication is kind of a big deal. Like they did at the end. Just earlier. Hisao should have talked to her about his concerns and whatnot. Also when the sex scene came up I was like "wut". I think I was thinking something more coherent a minute ago but I'm not sure if I said it.

Hi again everyone. Since our last conversation I've tried to act on the advice people here have selfelssly given. And it's worked, somewhat.

Yah know, trigger warning for strong bigotry. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Spoiler

Show

Family problems have stayed the same. Nothing new here. Same with pyschological problems, though that belongs in a different thread.

I've tried to be open to my best friend about my asexuality (naturally ending up public knowledge in my community because that's just the way my friends keep secrets), and now he has decided that I'm some peculiar specimine that requires further questioning. Quite a lot of it, and mostly it's just him trying to trip me up, although some others are things like "Yes, but you're asexual. You're just as ****** up as the rest of them [by that he means non-heteronormative people].". Which brings me to my next point.

That same friend and a few others I have, however, is extremely openly bigoted (I only really found out in the last week when he decided that I share his hatred because of my asexuality *logicfail* .

I'm asking for how I can convince them to either stop being so bigoted or at the very least stop being so offensive about it. I'm quite honestly thinking about just leaving our friendship behind. Bigotry of any form really, really annoys me.

I'm not quite awake enough to have a proper response.
So, I'm sorry you're going through this rough time, and *hugs*

[Castaras]

I see more gay guys than lesbians. Then again, I hang around with guys more than girls. I think it's about equal.

At secondary school, the only people who were out were gay, until sixth form when two girls who'd left started dating. *shrugs*

Depends on the area, I guess.

[Asta Kask]

Hi again everyone. Since our last conversation I've tried to act on the advice people here have selfelssly given. And it's worked, somewhat.

Yah know, trigger warning for strong bigotry. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Spoiler

Show

Family problems have stayed the same. Nothing new here. Same with pyschological problems, though that belongs in a different thread.

I've tried to be open to my best friend about my asexuality (naturally ending up public knowledge in my community because that's just the way my friends keep secrets), and now he has decided that I'm some peculiar specimine that requires further questioning. Quite a lot of it, and mostly it's just him trying to trip me up, although some others are things like "Yes, but you're asexual. You're just as ****** up as the rest of them [by that he means non-heteronormative people].". Which brings me to my next point.

That same friend and a few others I have, however, is extremely openly bigoted (I only really found out in the last week when he decided that I share his hatred because of my asexuality *logicfail* .

I'm asking for how I can convince them to either stop being so bigoted or at the very least stop being so offensive about it. I'm quite honestly thinking about just leaving our friendship behind. Bigotry of any form really, really annoys me.

It's been several weeks and they continue. It's not just directed at me, but at everyone else who doesn't fit their standard of "normal". I have this terrible feeling that I managed to bring it out into the open.

I will try to act on your advice, though. They've been friends for a long time and I really don't want to lose them at this moment.

This is a really, really difficult problem, because "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into." You have to make a choice, and it will be tough. It's certainly possible to grit your teeth when you're around them. Or you could say something like "Look, I don't like your opinions. Please shut up about them around me." Or you could cut the friendship. It depends a lot on how much you value them as friends, and how much cognitive dissonance you have to suffer through when listening to them.

[Lither]

You didn't lose them. They lost you... And they lost you the moment they decided to be an intolerant waste of oxygen...

But still... they've been my friends for years. It's hard to just hate them after that.

I'm not quite awake enough to have a proper response.
So, I'm sorry you're going through this rough time, and *hugs*

*is hugged*

This is a really, really difficult problem, because "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into." You have to make a choice, and it will be tough. It's certainly possible to grit your teeth when you're around them. Or you could say something like "Look, I don't like your opinions. Please shut up about them around me." Or you could cut the friendship. It depends a lot on how much you value them as friends, and how much cognitive dissonance you have to suffer through when listening to them.

I don't want to leave them as friends, but it's becoming increasingly clear that I may have to with my current... state. I'll try the "shut up about it when I'm around" approach though.

[Heliomance]

On my way on to campus, I just passed a group of chavs. There was giggling, and as I walked past, I was hailed with "'scuse me, are you a boy or a girl?"

It made me happy

[turkishproverb]

Congrats. *Hugs*

[The Succubus]

On my way on to campus, I just passed a group of chavs. There was giggling, and as I walked past, I was hailed with "'scuse me, are you a boy or a girl?"

It made me happy

You should have smiled at them, , and just kept walking. They'd be obsessing about it all day!

Also, you need to get your androgynous butt up to the Oxford meet this weekend.

[Last_resort_33]

But still... they've been my friends for years. It's hard to just hate them after that.

I know... I am being a little harsh, but I know the effect that having people like that around has on someone. You've got to know that you don't have to put up with that crap. And they've got to know that you won't put up with that crap too.

I don't want to leave them as friends, but it's becoming increasingly clear that I may have to with my current... state. I'll try the "shut up about it when I'm around" approach though.

I won't stop you, it is hard to just turn your back on people you thought were friends, but I will say that in my experiance, that way madness and darkness lie...

Be well and be strong... and have a hug (if you like that sort of thing)

[Glass Mouse]

On my way on to campus, I just passed a group of chavs. There was giggling, and as I walked past, I was hailed with "'scuse me, are you a boy or a girl?"

It made me happy

Haha, 'grats! That's awesome

[Heliomance]

You should have smiled at them, , and just kept walking. They'd be obsessing about it all day!

Also, you need to get your androgynous butt up to the Oxford meet this weekend.

That's exactly what I did

And I would, but I am a poor student with little money. Also auditions for this summer's G&S are this weekend.

[Castaras]

UK people, here's a thingy for signing that's LGBT relevant..
Marriage no matter what gender the people may identify as = yes yes yes, aye?