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  1. - Top - End - #361
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Well, I did a lot of talking to my copyright-friend (Who participated in the playtest), and I've come to a couple of conclusions. Namely, that I need to rework a lot of the internal mechanics of my game. Since you guys have heard nothing of these, I can't imagine you care too greatly. But I am effectively rewriting the core mechanics of the universe. All the craziness that I've described is going to remain present, of course. I also have a couple new ideas..

    Edit: Oh, and if anyone cares, I joined BlogNomic. A new Dynasty just started. I get the feeling I'm going to have some fun with this.
    Last edited by Welknair; 2012-06-01 at 04:14 AM.
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    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
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    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
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    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    The difference between care and ignorance is a matter of sympathy. I care. I might not know many things about the system, but Welknair's success is still important to me.

    I think others would feel the same.

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Blognomic looks like the biggest headache ever. I wish I'd thought it up.
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    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    *Peers around*
    My curiousity got the best of me.

    I find the premise intriguing! I'd say more if I knew more, but I see you're being careful of the ever looming copyright monster. Very wise, but I'm sure you also enjoy keeping some secrets. If you need any input, help, testing, artwork, or comradery, allow me to return the favor for your help with my project.
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  5. - Top - End - #365
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    *Peers around*
    My curiousity got the best of me.

    I find the premise intriguing! I'd say more if I knew more, but I see you're being careful of the ever looming copyright monster. Very wise, but I'm sure you also enjoy keeping some secrets. If you need any input, help, testing, artwork, or comradery, allow me to return the favor for your help with my project.
    Ah, Wombous! Welcome to my crazy little corner of the 'boards!

    I have been very careful about not disclosing too much about my game, but at the same time I can eek out little ideas to see what the popular response is. In general, if you track this thread you'll see some preeeetty interesting conversations.

    If I have need of your services, I will be sure to call upon you! As I said though, a sounding board for rough ideas is always appreciated!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Well, I did a lot of talking to my copyright-friend (Who participated in the playtest), and I've come to a couple of conclusions. Namely, that I need to rework a lot of the internal mechanics of my game. Since you guys have heard nothing of these, I can't imagine you care too greatly. But I am effectively rewriting the core mechanics of the universe. All the craziness that I've described is going to remain present, of course. I also have a couple new ideas..

    Edit: Oh, and if anyone cares, I joined BlogNomic. A new Dynasty just started. I get the feeling I'm going to have some fun with this.
    What's Blognomic?
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  7. - Top - End - #367
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    What's Blognomic?
    Well, there IS that handy link there. BlogNomic is a variation of Nomic which Amechra was kind enough to introduce me to. Basically, BlogNomic a net-version of Calvinball. The players make proposals to change the rules, and said proposals are voted on. Each game has a specific theme, and a new game starts every month or so. Each game is called a "Dynasty" and has an "Emperor" that oversees it and determines the theme. The Emperor of a Dynasty is the winner from the prior Dynasty.

    Dynasty 100 started about a week ago (Rules are still fresh and simple). The Theme is "Time Monks". We are time-traveling bhuddists. Within the next few days, rules are going to be put in place that will allow travel to previous Dynasties. While in a past Dynasty, a Time Monk (Player) is subject to the rules of that Dynasty. The winner of Dynasty 100 will be based upon who gains a certain number of Victories by traveling to past Dynasties and completing their Victory Conditions. BlogNomic has been going on for a looooong time. For veteran players, I'd imagine that this Dynasty will be a nostalgic trip down memory lane, revisitng all their past exploits. For us noobies, it means that we have 100 Dynasties worth of archives and rulesets to skim through.

    It's really fast and easy to join! And I could use a partner in crime for enacting Scams!

    Oh, that reminds me. In any given Dynasty, there are usually two ways to win: The "Legit" way and a Scam. The Legit way is to honestly go about fulfilling the victory fair-and-square, as they were intended. A Scam is the exploitation of loophools to gain victory. I've read a few Scams from the archives, and these things are impressive. They are rarely able to be enacted by a single player. Hence alliances form to work the system. Fun stuff!
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    It's really fast and easy to join! And I could use a partner in crime for enacting Scams!

    Oh, that reminds me. In any given Dynasty, there are usually two ways to win: The "Legit" way and a Scam. The Legit way is to honestly go about fulfilling the victory fair-and-square, as they were intended. A Scam is the exploitation of loophools to gain victory. I've read a few Scams from the archives, and these things are impressive. They are rarely able to be enacted by a single player. Hence alliances form to work the system. Fun stuff!
    Sounds like my kind of party. only problem is I highly doubt I have enough time to get involved in it right now. Maybe next dynasty, or near the end of this one.

  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Well, there IS that handy link there. BlogNomic is a variation of Nomic which Amechra was kind enough to introduce me to. Basically, BlogNomic a net-version of Calvinball. The players make proposals to change the rules, and said proposals are voted on. Each game has a specific theme, and a new game starts every month or so. Each game is called a "Dynasty" and has an "Emperor" that oversees it and determines the theme. The Emperor of a Dynasty is the winner from the prior Dynasty.

    Dynasty 100 started about a week ago (Rules are still fresh and simple). The Theme is "Time Monks". We are time-traveling bhuddists. Within the next few days, rules are going to be put in place that will allow travel to previous Dynasties. While in a past Dynasty, a Time Monk (Player) is subject to the rules of that Dynasty. The winner of Dynasty 100 will be based upon who gains a certain number of Victories by traveling to past Dynasties and completing their Victory Conditions. BlogNomic has been going on for a looooong time. For veteran players, I'd imagine that this Dynasty will be a nostalgic trip down memory lane, revisitng all their past exploits. For us noobies, it means that we have 100 Dynasties worth of archives and rulesets to skim through.

    It's really fast and easy to join! And I could use a partner in crime for enacting Scams!

    Oh, that reminds me. In any given Dynasty, there are usually two ways to win: The "Legit" way and a Scam. The Legit way is to honestly go about fulfilling the victory fair-and-square, as they were intended. A Scam is the exploitation of loophools to gain victory. I've read a few Scams from the archives, and these things are impressive. They are rarely able to be enacted by a single player. Hence alliances form to work the system. Fun stuff!
    That sounds epic... but... Time Consuming.

    Darn you to herps, Mine craft. You take so much time.
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  10. - Top - End - #370
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    That sounds epic... but... Time Consuming.

    Darn you to herps, Mine craft. You take so much time.
    I agree. Running a server on top of the rest of my life keeps me fairly busy. But it's so darn addicting....
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  11. - Top - End - #371
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    I agree. Running a server on top of the rest of my life keeps me fairly busy. But it's so darn addicting....
    A little known fact: I happen to moderate on a Minecraft RP server by the name of "Silver Age Roleplay". I wish I had more time for it..

    UPDATE: Work on re-jiggering internal mechanics is progressing nicely. I'm also intending to include full-support for magitech-esque machinery and devices, though hopefully a bit simpler. -Ness's will play a large part in how these things work.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  12. - Top - End - #372
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    A little known fact: I happen to moderate on a Minecraft RP server by the name of "Silver Age Roleplay". I wish I had more time for it..

    UPDATE: Work on re-jiggering internal mechanics is progressing nicely. I'm also intending to include full-support for magitech-esque machinery and devices, though hopefully a bit simpler. -Ness's will play a large part in how these things work.
    Oh no! You too have fallen victim to the allures of minecraft! Well, if you send me the server ip, i'd be game to check it out!
    Also, i can't seem to find information on -ness's...what are they exactly?
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  13. - Top - End - #373
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Oh no! You too have fallen victim to the allures of minecraft! Well, if you send me the server ip, i'd be game to check it out!
    Also, i can't seem to find information on -ness's...what are they exactly?
    Here is the site. Not sure where to go from there, but it looks epic.

    Ness's... where have those been seen before?
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  14. - Top - End - #374
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    a sword must have 'swordness' to actually work as a sword. however, you could give this swordness to anything else...which will cause it to work as a sword. On a more universal level, form does not create function, function creates function. That baguette with swordness cuts like a blade, and that longsword with foodness is quite nourishing.

  15. - Top - End - #375
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    With all of this beautiful craziness, I've been starting to wonder about the boring logistics of the game-world. What kind of races are you going to have? What is the setting going to look like? What about the politics, the geography (cosmography?), the factions, the quests?

  16. - Top - End - #376
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleven View Post
    With all of this beautiful craziness, I've been starting to wonder about the boring logistics of the game-world. What kind of races are you going to have? What is the setting going to look like? What about the politics, the geography (cosmography?), the factions, the quests?
    Yeah, i've been wondering about language too.
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the intention of the game would be that each game would have it's own characteristics. The players and the (what was the "DM" role named?) would construct the world as they went...or something like that.

  18. - Top - End - #378
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the intention of the game would be that each game would have it's own characteristics. The players and the (what was the "DM" role named?) would construct the world as they went...or something like that.
    Ah, that would make sense. So more free form such as GURPS then?
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

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  19. - Top - End - #379
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Muse. The DM is called a muse. Also, he has mentioned rules for creating your own energies, and probably ness's to go along with it, but unless you make it different using those rules, you're probably gonna run into the same shenanigans all over again.

    And the boring logistics likely don't exist. What is a race? We don't have an energy for that.

    Finally; Welknair's server is a role-playing one, so they are very likely not accepting others. Especially not from here, together I feel we'd break minecraft (and the universe).
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  20. - Top - End - #380
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Xechon View Post
    Muse. The DM is called a muse. Also, he has mentioned rules for creating your own energies, and probably ness's to go along with it, but unless you make it different using those rules, you're probably gonna run into the same shenanigans all over again.

    And the boring logistics likely don't exist. What is a race? We don't have an energy for that.

    Finally; Welknair's server is a role-playing one, so they are very likely not accepting others. Especially not from here, together I feel we'd break minecraft (and the universe).
    SilverAge Server: They crack down on power gamers pretty hard, from what I can tell. Which is for the best.

    Logistics: Yup. The what is an X? question has been asked several times. A race may have a different structure, but that doesn't mean they're different. It'd only be their aptitude to certain energies, or perhaps mental temperament (the emotion energy is still mine, peeps.)

    World Creation: From what I could tell, most of the basics of the world, including any alternate gravity, is determined by the DM beforehand. You're thinking of Progressive Start. [Link hits my interpretation of it, and attempt to homebrew it to D20. We have little knowledge of how it works mechanically as of yet.]

    Point of Order: Also, since we appear to be discussing several things at once, I just put the topic of each paragraph at its beginning. Dunno.
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    At the risk of stating the obvious: this copyright thing is really tricky.
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    At the risk of stating the obvious: this copyright thing is really tricky.
    That's why he's got that friend to help.
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  23. - Top - End - #383
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleven View Post
    With all of this beautiful craziness, I've been starting to wonder about the boring logistics of the game-world. What kind of races are you going to have? What is the setting going to look like? What about the politics, the geography (cosmography?), the factions, the quests?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Ah, that would make sense. So more free form such as GURPS then?
    There's a few Essays I still really need to write about games, which contain terminology that I'd like to use to respond to this.. Here's a brief description of one:

    "Definition". Tabletop RPGs have a set "Definition" level, which is the gauge of how free the GM is to create their world. A game with very High Definition requires less (if any) worldbuilding on the part of the GM, but also means that they have less freedom. A game with Low Definition requires more work, but offers more freedom. My usual examples of these two poles: Exalted and GURPS. D&D is about in the middle. They have the "default setting" but still leave a lot up to the DM, plus the DM could rewrite some basic racial interactions if they wished, or use entirely different races. At the same time, they're still constrained by the bounds of the system.

    I'm aiming Fourthland to be closer to D&D Definition level, if a bit lower. Because of the "Beautiful Craziness", Muses will have TONS of options in building their worlds. One playtest I ran had the world a flat plane, one was on an amorphous blob, one was on the inside of a sphere... Weird stuff. Thanks to no-gravity zones, the ability to infuse Movement into things, plus crazy Alchemies, there will be a plethora of crazy options to go about the usual stuff.

    As for factions, quests and so forth: It's up to the Muse. I'll likely include a full "Default Setting", but it won't be essential to the mechanics by any means. Just a starting point to show what the game is capable of.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Yeah, i've been wondering about language too.
    That's an interesting question, and not one that I've previously pondered.. My default is a Common language, though I suppose I can work something more... weird in if people wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the intention of the game would be that each game would have it's own characteristics. The players and the (what was the "DM" role named?) would construct the world as they went...or something like that.
    This is indeed correct! I like originality and innovation (I made THIS game, didn't I?) and I'd like to encourage these traits in both my Players and my Muses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xechon View Post
    Muse. The DM is called a muse. Also, he has mentioned rules for creating your own energies, and probably ness's to go along with it, but unless you make it different using those rules, you're probably gonna run into the same shenanigans all over again.
    I have indeed mentioned my wish for people to eventually homebrew additional Energies, and that advanced groups may use up to four such energies to augment the insanity of their game. But yes, many of the same tricks will likely come up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xechon View Post
    And the boring logistics likely don't exist. What is a race? We don't have an energy for that.
    This was actually an interesting question brought up by my latest playtest. Namely, all characters in Fourthland are still "Abstract conceptions given the semblance of life" or somesuch jargon. To help people make sense of them, I describe them as humanoids. So far, I've always described them as humans. This necessitates of course that I describe them with clothes. The problem: "What are clothes? We don't have an energy for that." The clothes are a part of the human-guise, just like the hair and nails and eyes and mouths. They aren't really THERE. As a result, you couldn't, say, tear up your shirt and tie the ends together to make shoddy rope. It doesn't work like that here. You need yourself some Ropeness. Players, however, are like to try such things. As a result, it has been suggested that I start describing the characters as a different, still humanoid form. Scales and fur were both suggested, such that clothes wouldn't be required. I think I've mentioned before that sexes don't exist in my game, so Fourthland characters wouldn't have to worry themselves about covering such bits.

    Due to the low-definition of my game, if I take this kind of route, Muses would have the option to come up with pretty much any race-description they wanted for the main Fourthland Characters, as long as they stayed within rough bounds and didn't include supernatural characteristics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xechon View Post
    Finally; Welknair's server is a role-playing one, so they are very likely not accepting others. Especially not from here, together I feel we'd break minecraft (and the universe).
    Frankly, I think you guys would be a great addition to the server. We could use a bit more insanity. Oh, and I happen to be on the Whitelist team..

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    SilverAge Server: They crack down on power gamers pretty hard, from what I can tell. Which is for the best.
    Aye, we don't allow much powergaming. This is mostly saying things like *Cuts off his head*, though. Just be careful to not make yourself look like a power-hungry griefer and you ought to be fine. As long as you're in character, you can even still be power hungry.

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    Logistics: Yup. The what is an X? question has been asked several times. A race may have a different structure, but that doesn't mean they're different. It'd only be their aptitude to certain energies, or perhaps mental temperament (the emotion energy is still mine, peeps.)
    This is another interesting idea and one that could be integrated very easily. Because of the amorphous nature of my game, it would be exceedingly simple for a Muse to state that there are multiple races and that some are more adept than others at certain things.

    Edit: To clarify, I do not intend to include a D&D-esque list of races. I will state that Muses have the option of defining multiple races, but it is by no means necessary, nor essential for the game to function.

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    World Creation: From what I could tell, most of the basics of the world, including any alternate gravity, is determined by the DM beforehand. You're thinking of Progressive Start. [Link hits my interpretation of it, and attempt to homebrew it to D20. We have little knowledge of how it works mechanically as of yet.]
    This is quite correct!

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    Point of Order: Also, since we appear to be discussing several things at once, I just put the topic of each paragraph at its beginning. Dunno.
    Hence my response style!
    Last edited by Welknair; 2012-06-05 at 11:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Size: That, sir, is a wall of text. All others claiming such should stand by for true form. The harbinger of its destiny, as it were.

    Silver Age Server: In other news, you're on the whitelist team? Fantastic.

    Races: Would that be available in default, or more as the Muse preferred?
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    Size: That, sir, is a wall of text. All others claiming such should stand by for true form. The harbinger of its destiny, as it were.

    Silver Age Server: In other news, you're on the whitelist team? Fantastic.

    Races: Would that be available in default, or more as the Muse preferred?
    Size: THE BIGGER THE BETTER

    Server: Yup! As long as you send in reasonable applications, I have the power to accept you.

    Races: Muse-preferred, as per my above clarification.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Welknair, I have been a fan of your work for some time, but this...There are just no words to describe how awesome this is. I look forward to getting a copy.

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Archivist View Post
    Welknair, I have been a fan of your work for some time, but this...There are just no words to describe how awesome this is. I look forward to getting a copy.
    *Maniacal laughter* And so another joins the herd! I'm glad to hear that you've been enjoying my work!
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    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    I must say... I think this group doesn't need to be humanoid.

    (Go jellyfish!, Jellyfish! Jellyfish! I want to be a yellow-tinged jellyfish!)
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    If you see me try to discuss the nitty-gritty of D&D 5e, kindly point me to my signature and remind me that I shouldn't. Please and thank you!

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I must say... I think this group doesn't need to be humanoid.

    (Go jellyfish!, Jellyfish! Jellyfish! I want to be a yellow-tinged jellyfish!)
    Hmm.. Duly noted.
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    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I must say... I think this group doesn't need to be humanoid.

    (Go jellyfish!, Jellyfish! Jellyfish! I want to be a yellow-tinged jellyfish!)
    I'll be an emotionless four-legged sapient ox! Who... bends... emotions.

    Because you have not heard Shakespeare until you've heard him in the voice of the Elcor!

    Aren't floating Jellyfish just Flumphs?
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    I cannot tell you the number of times I laughed while reading this.

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