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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    jojolagger's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Interesting thoughts.
    Armour-ness on a hair pin (because a hair pin that stops arrows in hilarious.
    Club-ness on a sword (for bludgeoning someone to death with the edge of a sword).
    Tent-ness on a pen (1d4 SAN damage.)
    This is wonderful.
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  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    You know what? Let's go a step further.

    You do not craft objects; instead, you craft Functions, which are then imbued at some later point. You can only Imbue a given Function once, and then the object will always have that function.

    You can later remove a Function from an object.

    I'm waiting for Tool-ness, so I can Imbue it in my fists (fixin' things like the fonz! Yeah!); or, more esoterically, Food-ness on a stick (hey, when you can make anything edible...), Window-ness on a wall (you can see through it.)

    Hell, by reducing items down to Function, you can really be an artist... and your canvas could be your body.

    Another idea... who needs tools to craft a metaphor or function? You could totally make a Shape based around rapid crafting by simply mixing and melding Function Components. And then maybe, eventually, refining a Function to the point that you can just use the Energy and ignore the actual Form. So you could chop someone in half with the very concept of Swordness, or nail up a wall with literally nothing more than a whim.

    The funny thing is that this kinda crafting makes a crapton of sense to anyone who has ever looked at how Diablo made its random items, but with the random stuff you get being stuff you can use that item for, rather than adding fire or ice or whatever.

    And you do realize that, the more we talk about this, this is the game I've been dreaming of?

    And Progressive Disclosure is such a wonderful idea... it's the kinda thing I wish that DnD was designed to work with.
    <hr>
    Sorry for a light hi-jack, but I have an idea for something to do while we are waiting for Welknair to complete the copyright process...

    I'm currently working on a quick PoS combining Risus and Nomic. Anyone want to use it to get in the mood?

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    I think we're all overlooking something central to our existence. Bearness. Yes, now we too can have +1 Swords of Bearness, Fists of Bearness, and dare I say, Beards of Bearness.
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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Another idea. Sorry if you already have this.

    Abstraction-based reality. Where saying "break a leg" is dangerous and "actions speak louder than words" is extremely obnoxious. And just make sure to never divide by zero.
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Season 3.

    Also, I am right on the edge of another headsplode. Good save by explanations, though.

    I have that horrible feeling this game will make me look like an idiot.
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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    At first I was a little uncertain about the idea of the shape-doesn't-equal-function thing, but now I'm quite certain it will be AMAZING. Been doing a bit more work on the concept... *Maniacal laughter*

    Abstraction-Based Reality: Hmm.. That's an interesting idea, but I'm not entirely sure how it'd fit into the scheme of everything else.. Mostly because so far, such idioms don't really exist in Fourthland. "What's a leg?" I may still work in something similar though. OH. Oh yeah. I almost forgot I intended too-- Why thank you for reminding me of that!

    Amechra: The Nomic/Risus game. I.. I was toying around with ideas for.. GET OUT OF MY BRAINNNN. I've been juggling ideas around for nigh on a month and a half now for what would effectively be "Calvinball, the Tabletop RPG". It'd be a game made for homebrewers and game designers, where the laws of the world are defined as you go through play. I'd never heard of Nomic before, but it is GLORIOUS and exactly the type of thing I was thinking of. I hadn't posted about this game idea or done any real work on it due to IRL busy-ness and Fourthland finally rolling. I think it would be an amazing idea.

    And I haven't even finished season one yet.

    Edit: The views. Guess what the views just passed last night?

    ITS OVER FOUR THOUSAAAAAAAAND!

    And now, for some hints:

    How many wheels are there on a bike?

    Five-eyed owl

    10 degrees farenheit

    Six people arguing

    /overthints
    Last edited by Welknair; 2012-05-19 at 01:05 PM.
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    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    By my reckoning:
    2 = Movement
    5 = wisdom
    10 = fire
    6 = chaos

    That's what I got from it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
    Bloody Mess: The gift that keeps on gibbing.
    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Oh, I can finish that up within a week.

    The rules of one of the longest running Nomic games read like the law codes of a country, including defining citizenship.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Welknair's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    The rules of one of the longest running Nomic games read like the law codes of a country, including defining citizenship.


    I really need to finish reading through Nomic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Actually owls are not technically wiser than any other creature. Welkanair, having a high IQ (as do most people on this form), would presumably know this.

    Thus, we can clearly not choose the option in front of him. But, we also know that he's adept a tropes, since he can break them so well: thus, he could be pandering to the "owls are wise" idea from the start, and can clearly not choose the option near to us.

    But, of course, we know this game IS about breaking expectations, so our expectations of wisdom mean we clearly cannot choose the option in front of him.

    What did you say? I just got started!

    The first point is true: it might be perception...?
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  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Yes, I was just pointing out that owls often symbolize wisdom, but you're right. It could be any number of things, including perception, or even the ability to eat mice whole. I was just stating my immediate impressions from the hints.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
    Bloody Mess: The gift that keeps on gibbing.
    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    Yes, I was just pointing out that owls often symbolize wisdom, but you're right. It could be any number of things, including perception, or even the ability to eat mice whole. I was just stating my immediate impressions from the hints.
    I was sacrificing sanity for the sake of humor. Oh well.
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  13. - Top - End - #253
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    I was sacrificing sanity for the sake of humor. Oh well.
    Oh. Right. And that's the problem with text as a medium for a conversation. Sarcasm and humour aren't always easily apparent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
    Bloody Mess: The gift that keeps on gibbing.
    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
    Oh. Right. And that's the problem with text as a medium for a conversation. Sarcasm and humour aren't always easily apparent.
    Well its too bad that we can't change the color of text or anything like that to indicate it.

    I think its obvious that Sam has seen Princess Bride. Lets hope that Welknair has as well and that either way, the owl clue is tied to wisdom or knowledge.
    Last edited by Elfstone; 2012-05-19 at 06:38 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfstone View Post
    I think its obvious that Sam has seen Princess Bride. Lets hope that Welknair has as well.
    I've spent the last ten years of my life building up a resistance to overused tropes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    ...

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    Ha! But I've won! I switched glasses while you weren't looking, and the glass with overused tropes is clearly in front of you!

    @Elfstone, Why did I not think of that?
    Last edited by SamBurke; 2012-05-19 at 05:15 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    I think I've finally wrapped my head around Nomic. This things is beautiful. How have I not heard of it before? I can easily see how it could be adapted with Risus into a TT RPG, and very much look forward to seeing what Amechra comes up with.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    I've found Risus: the anything game, but I cannot seem to find Nomic. Can someone link it for me (PDF if possible, please)?
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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Xechon View Post
    I've found Risus: the anything game, but I cannot seem to find Nomic. Can someone link it for me (PDF if possible, please)?
    http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm#intro

    Didn't see a pdf version, but here are the basic rules I could find for it.

    On topic: This is looking amazing, Welknair! I've been enjoying every page of this thread so far, and looking forward to more.
    Last edited by Fako; 2012-05-20 at 12:50 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Fako View Post
    On topic: This is looking amazing, Welknair! I've been enjoying every page of this thread so far, and looking forward to more.
    That's very good to hear! With any luck it won't be long before I have a first draft copyrighted so people can start PEACHing! I try to keep the thread interesting for the followers of it while I work on the actual game. It's nice to know that it's working!

    I also happen to be good friends with, as I said prior, a couple people very skilled in web design (Where I only have passing knowledge), and I plan to set up a proper website very soon. Said website maaaay include a donation or kickstarter link at some later time. I'm 90% sure that'd be okay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    UPDATE TEIM:

    1. I think I'm going with Lulu Press. It'll allow me to publish both paper and electronic copies of my work, for free, and allow said copies to be available through a number of other venues, such as Amazon and iBooks.

    2. Still doing some work on the Alchemies/Crafting system.

    3. I'm about ready to start typing up the first draft!

    4. I updated the OP so its friendlier to new people wanting to take a look, and actually says some stuff about the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Awesome! Can't wait!
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  23. - Top - End - #263
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    We're approaching the Big 4 soon... 4,444 views. Contemplating how I should mark the occasion, given that I just gave a bunch of really overt hints for the 4k mark. I really should have waited till the Big 4. Hmmm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  24. - Top - End - #264
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Give out four times the hints?
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  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    ...that was going to be my suggestion, but I'm concerned that if Welknair gives out too many hints the impact of the manual might be lessened to those who read the final draft. ...to the members of this thread, at least?

  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    4,444 VIEWS!!!!

    In celebration, I bring you this news: THE WRITING HAS BEGUN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    In celebration, I bring you this news: THE WRITING HAS BEGUN.
    Congrats Question: Will the initial draft include enough rules for a playtest, or will that be reserved for the game you're setting up with the initial group from this thread?
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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Fako View Post
    Congrats Question: Will the initial draft include enough rules for a playtest, or will that be reserved for the game you're setting up with the initial group from this thread?
    The first draft is intended to include enough in order to play at least a basic version of the game. The initial playtest indeed will just be for the original followers of this thread, but I may later open up said first draft for others to playtest. That's a bit in the future though, so I'm not guaranteeing anything.

    Edit: When you read through RPG books, how often do you really pay attention to them? As in, the way that they're set up? What they say? How they say it? It's a very peculiar experience being on the other end of that.

    *Slowly figuring out how to write an intro to Tabletop RPGs*
    Last edited by Welknair; 2012-05-21 at 02:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    The first draft is intended to include enough in order to play at least a basic version of the game. The initial playtest indeed will just be for the original followers of this thread, but I may later open up said first draft for others to playtest. That's a bit in the future though, so I'm not guaranteeing anything.
    Understandable, and I hope the first playtest goes well.

    Edit: When you read through RPG books, how often do you really pay attention to them? As in, the way that they're set up? What they say? How they say it? It's a very peculiar experience being on the other end of that.
    The RPG books I've read seem to be set up with the players in mind, so they flow from introductory fluff to character creation, and then to items that the ST/DM/GM will need. I personally use the first chapter to get an idea for the tone that the game will convey, which I find is helpful for world building.
    Normally, I am the one who collects all the rules for the games we play, with the rest of the group picking up as we go along. Because of that, I prefer books that have clear cut information on how mechanics work, rather than mixing it with fluff. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the descriptions of how abilities/rules work in the world... I just don't want to have to fish through a paragraph or two to find the exact mechanics of an ability (ex: Exalted).
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    Default Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Fako View Post
    The RPG books I've read seem to be set up with the players in mind, so they flow from introductory fluff to character creation, and then to items that the ST/DM/GM will need. I personally use the first chapter to get an idea for the tone that the game will convey, which I find is helpful for world building.
    Normally, I am the one who collects all the rules for the games we play, with the rest of the group picking up as we go along. Because of that, I prefer books that have clear cut information on how mechanics work, rather than mixing it with fluff. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the descriptions of how abilities/rules work in the world... I just don't want to have to fish through a paragraph or two to find the exact mechanics of an ability (ex: Exalted).
    I agree very much here. There's something I talk about, called the "Hello World" test. It's usually applied to various coding languages and is the measure of how long it takes someone to learn how to make a simple program that outputs "Hello World!" once. If you need to read through entire manuals which are hundreds of pages long to do such a simple function, it fails the test. Similarly, I believe that people picking up a game for the first time should be able to dive right into it, without having to first read and reread the entire darn thing. Deathwatch, I'm looking at you.

    Additionally, I am very much aware of the importance of those first few pages. The intro is extremely important in grabbing the attentions of would-be players and GMs. I'm doing my best to make the intro as engaging and up-front as possible.

    That reminds me! Why do games so often have their mechanics bound up in fluff, like you said? Even the core mechanics, often. These things should be in a clear, concise format for easy learning. I have the majority of my game written on sheets of notebook paper at this point, and the main mechanics occupy less than two such pages. Why should i need to read a hundred pages to learn what I could have in two? Of course content, context, and examples are important. But still, I think that game makers could afford to be a little more clear with the way things work.
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