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Thread: Monk Druid
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2014-09-13, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Monk Druid
How viable would a monk druid crossclass be and how would one go about doing it?
Any prestige classes that exist for or to compliment such a character?
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2014-09-13, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Worse than an equal leveled druid, with the exact level of worse-ness proportional to the number of monk levels you take. It's obviously a very imperfect model, but it makes sense to just imagine the monk levels as non-existent. If you're a druid 9/monk 1, then ask yourself whether a druid 9 can contribute in any given 10th level party. The answer is almost certainly yes. The answer, however, gets less "yes" when you start talking about a druid 5/monk 5. Druids can lose some power and still be amazing, in other words, so you can make suboptimal decisions like this if you want. If you really want the multiclass, then I'd advise just picking up one or two levels as is typically done. You'd do much better with a normal druid with a monk's belt, however.
Last edited by eggynack; 2014-09-13 at 07:53 PM.
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2014-09-13, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Monk 1/Druid X is relatively solid, arguably better than straight druid for some concepts and only marginally weaker than straight druid overall (past level 5, anyway). Any number of monk levels greater than 1 becomes increasingly bad.
Last edited by Divide by Zero; 2014-09-13 at 07:57 PM.
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2014-09-13, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
I'm not really sure what that concept would be, is the thing. Even on a brawler, I think you'd be better off just advancing as a druid, as the advancement of your animal companion, wild shape, and magic, all make you better at brawling, likely to a greater extent than monk dip abilities. Tippy has suggested in the past that a monk dip is probably better than no monk dip past level 17, but I'm not entirely sure that that sort of marginal power increase is even relevant at those levels.
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2014-09-13, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Just take the Deadly Hunter Druid ACF (UA p58)
Gain bonus to AC when unarmored and fast movement (as monk).
Gain favored enemy, track, and swift tracker as a ranger.
Lose armor and shield proficiency and wild shape.
Though I quite like Elf Monk 2 / Druid 3 / Seeker of the Misty Isle X — though I prefer Spirit Shaman, mainly for fluff reasons.
Quarterstaffs are Monk weapons so you can Flurry with them, and then you can cast the various Druid Quarterstaffs buffs.
Obviously straight Druid is stronger, but that's not the point of the build.Last edited by nedz; 2014-09-13 at 08:21 PM.
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2014-09-13, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Just make a single-classed Druid with a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp (MIC). The Monk's Belt gives you the AC bonus (including Wis bonus) and unarmed strike damage of five levels of Monk, without wasting any character levels on it. The Wilding Clasp makes it so you'll still be wearing it when you Wild Shape.
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2014-09-13, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Optimal advice: don't take any levels in Monk. The only useful class feature (Wis to AC) is replicated by a core item (the monk's belt). Slap on a wilding clasp and call it a day.
If you want to put together a good gish build that uses monk levels, I suggest Monk 1/Druid 5/Nature's Warrior 5/Druid +9. You get 16th lvl Druid casting, 19th lvl Druid Wild Shaping with extra benefits, BAB 15, Wis to AC, and 2 bonus feats to DCS into something useful.
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2014-09-14, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Last edited by Pan151; 2014-09-14 at 02:15 AM.
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2014-09-14, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Feh. If you're making use of the seriously zonked out stuff, then a decent sized AC boost doesn't even rate as particularly relevant, and you really want to have even more spell based power. I mean, really, you're able to cast two spells a round and kill folks from across the ethereal plane. Who cares about killer touch AC at that point? I'm also honestly somewhat doubtful that aberration forms are as incapable of wearing stuff as you claim. Sure a will-o'-wisp is tricky for this sort of thing, but most creatures have bodies of various kinds which can hold up a belt.
Edit: The same kinda goes for VoP, actually. Most of those stat bonuses are small potatoes against the backdrop of aberration wild shape. When you use aberrations, what you really want is more casting, and the way to do that is avoiding monk dips and using items that make magic better.Last edited by eggynack; 2014-09-14 at 02:37 AM.
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2014-09-14, 02:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
I'm not sure any of this is RAW.
Honestly there are a lot of cases in which a belt doesn't make sense but that doesn't mean you can't wear an equivalent item. How does a horse wear a belt? I don't know but that doesn't mean I couldn't equip one if I wanted to. Same goes for dragons or pretty much any creature who wants magic items but has an "unusual" shape compared to humanoids.
So yes ... your monk belt will work in any Form.Xeph Nomad by the marvellous Iron Penguin
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2014-09-14, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Not so, every creature no matter what shape they are still has all the standard magic item body spots. A beholder for example can wear rings, bracers, amulets, belts, etc. on its eye stalks instead of on wrists/fingers/neck/waist, as this is specifically called out in Lords of Madness. Any creature can wear any type of magic item, with the only exception being armor and shields not of the appropriate size/shape. Furthermore, the wilding clasp does not say that the item is worn by your wild shape form, only that it continues to function, so you'll still gain the belt's benefits when wild shaped regardless of how much you want to nitpick the form's shape.
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2014-09-14, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Source? Because the Wilding Clasp description clearly suggests otherwise.
Yes, a Beholder could potentially wear rings in its eyestalks (if it could actually get them to fit through its eyeballs, but that's a gruesome story for another time). However, creatures that are perfectly spherical and/or amorphous and/or gaseous would have no lack attempting anything of the sort.
Originally Posted by MICLast edited by Pan151; 2014-09-14 at 04:09 PM.
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2014-09-14, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
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2014-09-14, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Possibly. Not absolutely, but possibly. The list of creatures that are like that is pretty small though. Most creatures would plausibly be capable of wearing a good amount of the stuff a druid would want, including belts. We're mostly talking about the will-o'-wisp here, and that form doesn't even work all that well with the style that VoP and a monk dip promotes. For face punching, I'd think you'd want something more like thoon elder brain, which seems capable of wearing a belt on its brain, along with some rings, if ya want. Probably other stuff too.
Last edited by eggynack; 2014-09-14 at 04:18 PM.
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2014-09-14, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
According to the Magic Item Compendium, the default is that all creatures get all slots, and it's up to the DM to decide when they don't. There are also some pretty clear guidelines intended for DM use as to creatures with unusual anatomies. Per the MIC:
SpoilerOriginally Posted by Magic Item Compendium, Using Magic Items, Size and Shape, p. 219
Rules Compendium contained essentially the same guidelines on body slots.
SpoilerOriginally Posted by Rules Compendium, Magic Items, Using an Item, Size and Shape, pp. 83-84Last edited by Karnith; 2014-09-14 at 04:46 PM.
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2014-09-14, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Last edited by eggynack; 2014-09-14 at 07:04 PM.
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2014-09-14, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Most of the aberrations in Lords of Madness have explicit slot lists. Aboleths can wear belts, though the slot is merged with the cape slot. Beholders can wear belts, Flayers of course can. Neogi cannot wear belts, neither can Grell or Tsochari.
You can either try to generalize from those, or just say that everything without its own item slot list uses the human one.
Edit: Or use MIC guidelines apparently.Last edited by Urpriest; 2014-09-14 at 07:29 PM.
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2014-09-14, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
So I've seen a couple people suggest that the only good thing the Druid can get from the Monk is Wis to AC. As far as I know, Unarmed Strike is pretty good on a Druid too, as it lets them use their iterative attacks while wild shaped. Admittedly, you can pick this up for the cost of a feat, but a Monk's Belt or Monk dip gives it for free.
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2014-09-14, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
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2014-09-14, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
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2014-09-14, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid
Not sure what Druid animal form couldn't wear a belt. Heck, even bulls can wear a Belt of Binding.
Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2014-09-14 at 11:50 PM.
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2014-09-14, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-09-15, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monk Druid