League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!

[Neoseanster]

Did I say that? Can you perhaps quote me to show where exactly you think that's the point I'm making?

Because, I'm pretty damn sure I have made every effort to indicate that everyone is entirely welcome to disagree with me. Any and all arguments may or may not be completely valid I don't know, and I don't care. All I've said is I enjoy him and I do exceptionally well with him.

However, I simply do not care enough to continue the discussion. Am I asking too much here?

Math_Mage's point, I think, was just that you don't need to feel compelled to continue responding just because others have continued to offer their own opinions. The conversation can continue even if you don't want to be a part of it anymore.

__________________________________________________

Does anyone do a particularly good job of countering Cassiopeia? I've been finding myself struggling with her recently... I don't often play APs in ranked games, but of my recent losses, almost every time has had a Cass on the enemy team. My gut instinct is just to send Galio, but not every team will let you do that. In the meantime I've just been making sure to ban her every time I'm captain, if I don't have a teammate who wants her. >.>

[Eldariel]

How pray tell? I've tried to play Leona on Dominion and feel like I suck both in durability and damage.

I'm convinced this is more because I suck and forget to hit W, but teach me how to Leona so I can justify buying the Iron Solari skin.

Half of Leona's damage is her passive; you need at least 1 ally for her to do anything. But yeah, I was talking about Shen. That said, as Leona, QEWWW for skill order. W up you're very very sturdy and your damage is still decent especially if your passive is procced consistently.

She can kinda build supportish or bruiserish but either way you need to glue yourself to somebody's backside on Dominion as otherwise you're not doing much.

Does anyone do a particularly good job of countering Cassiopeia? I've been finding myself struggling with her recently... I don't often play APs in ranked games, but of my recent losses, almost every time has had one on the enemy team. My gut instinct is just to send Galio, but not every team will let you do that. In the meantime I've just been making sure to ban her every time I'm captain, if I don't have a teammate who wants her. >.>

Cassiopeia is the best laner in the game. She has no counters, played properly. Though if you outplay her, you can fare quite well with most assassin types (Kass, LeB, Fizz off the top of my head). In general, mobility to avoid her Q/W and thus the damage chain, and burst+reach to punish her for openings she leaves, are the key.

[Math_Mage]

Did I say that? Can you perhaps quote me to show where exactly you think that's the point I'm making?

Because, I'm pretty damn sure I have made every effort to indicate that everyone is entirely welcome to disagree with me. Any and all arguments may or may not be completely valid I don't know, and I don't care. All I've said is I enjoy him and I do exceptionally well with him.

However, I simply do not care enough to continue the discussion. Am I asking too much here?

All I'm trying to say is, if you're so uninterested in this discussion, don't mass quote everyone who disagreed with you and go off on how little you care about the discussion. Gives the impression that you think the continuance of the discussion hinges on your interest rather than ours.

[toasty]

Did I say that? Can you perhaps quote me to show where exactly you think that's the point I'm making?

Because, I'm pretty damn sure I have made every effort to indicate that everyone is entirely welcome to disagree with me. Any and all arguments may or may not be completely valid I don't know, and I don't care. All I've said is I enjoy him and I do exceptionally well with him.

However, I simply do not care enough to continue the discussion. Am I asking too much here?

I'm sorry that missed that statement. I was just pointing out some things that I think are very important to understand about lanematchups and such when picking heroes. One of the reasons that this thread exists, I feel, is so that players of different skill can interact with each other. One of the reasons I frequent this thread is to learn/teach other players. My point is that one of the things I like to do when I come to this thread is learn/teach other players. Evne if you don't want to listen (and thats totally fine!), someone else might.

I guess the thing is this: I've seen more than my fair share of bad players doing things that are not intelligent because they don't know what they are doing. Some of them are hopeless. Yesterday I played with a Shyvanna who stacked armor against Udyr/Shen/AP middle (their only physical damage was their AD bottom) when I said nicely "did you know what Udyr and Shen deal magic damage?" She said "stfu noob. You don't gank my lane."

however, those few players that are intelligent and want to listen. I like them. And they listen to me. And we learn, and win, together. And its really awesome.

In other news: I took a play out of Aether's book and build Wit's End on GP against an almost all Magic team. It worked. Really well. Like, really, really well.

[Mr. Zolrane]

I want to be an Ori player, but I have enough mages that I main that I should work on my carry/support skills first. xD

Who else do you play? I'm interested in trying another mage, but the other ones I've tried (Ryze and Swain, mainly) are cool, but they don't work well for me. I'm open to suggestions.

As for support, Support Ori is quite viable, and sacrifices little to go support over straight AP. Light support means you wait a little longer for your Deathcap in favor of an Aegis (that's what I go with anyway, maybe some other folks have a better early support item), and maybe get Abyssal Scepter instead of Void Staff. Heavy Support... I haven't looked into it enough, but I would assume just get more auras and CDR and max Protect earlier than you normally would.

Oh, and Acromos, I know exactly jacksquat about Shen (apart from the fact that I must constantly scream at my roommate to stop focusing him ) but the advice I would give to you, and I do not mean this in a denigrating way, is to stop responding if you're tired of discussing it. Like Neos said, other people are apparently still interested in the topic.

[Zen Master]

When you come in and tell people to build a champion in an unorthodox fashion

I most certainly do no such thing - it's even in my sig.

Look back over the last ... I dunno, hundreds of posts. Most if not all are statements of opinion - mine as well. If anyone points out "in my opinion" it's merely incidental - for me as well.

I absolutely will NOT be badgered into excusing for having an opinion someone else disagrees with, nor to label opinion for everyone elses convenience when no one else does.

Math_Mage's point, I think, was just that you don't need to feel compelled to continue responding just because others have continued to offer their own opinions. The conversation can continue even if you don't want to be a part of it anymore.

I feel kinda obliged to answer because they quote me - and frankly, I'm fairly certain they quote me for that very reason. And it's pointless for everyone involved because I have no interest in discussing it - at all - I merely pointed out that I find Shen to be absolutely awesome. Why anyone would want to make an issue out of it is entirely beyond me.

Go play someone else, for gods sake. And if you happen to enjoy it, share. But why in gods name must I be attacked by what, five guys, for stating I enjoy Shen? **** off!

EDIT: The above is a remarkably ill-conceived post. Mainly because I answer the two guys I don't have issue with, but really direct the post at those I do, without stating that fact.

So - sorry. I'm not going to change it tho - just explain.

It's not important to me. But since a few guys keep dogging it, it feels like it must be important to them. Either that, or it's just that important to prove me wrong. Either of which I want no part of.

Got me thinking of this - which I hope is amusing and no offense to anyone: http://xkcd.com/386/

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Who else do you play? I'm interested in trying another mage, but the other ones I've tried (Ryze and Swain, mainly) are cool, but they don't work well for me. I'm open to suggestions.

My suggestion: Ahri. Pretty good laner, strong ganker, absurdly high mobility and has one of the best CC abilities out there. Don't pick her up unless you like skillshots, though. She really depends on landing them to do well.

[Math_Mage]

Go play someone else, for gods sake. And if you happen to enjoy it, share. But why in gods name must I be attacked by what, five guys, for stating I enjoy Shen? **** off!

*cough* "Shen is an outstanding support" and "Shen only ever fails if his carry fails" are statements that can be argued without "attacking you for stating you enjoy Shen." Toasty was rather harsh--if you've noticed, he has something of a personal dislike for non-meta picks--but disagreement is not persecution.

[Mr. Zolrane]

Okay, before this thread gets modded, let's do something silly to blow off steam. One idea I had was assigning each champ a humorous theme song. Ideally, the title of the song chosen refers to some well-known aspect of the champ's kit, appearance or lore, but if your choice is only in the lyrics, posting the relevant bit would be appreciated.

So yeah, I'll start:

Kassadin: Enjoy the Silence (Depeche Mode)
Garen: You Spin Me Right Round (No clue whose song it is in the first place, as basically everyone in the world has covered it)
Orianna: Big Balls (AC/DC) ...I'm sorry, please hit me.

I've got a few others, but I want to see what you guys come up with.

My suggestion: Ahri. Pretty good laner, strong ganker, absurdly high mobility and has one of the best CC abilities out there. Don't pick her up unless you like skillshots, though. She really depends on landing them to do well.

I thought she looked cool when she first came out, and I've considered trying her before, but I fear with I may find that I have what I call a Nocturne problem with her: Powerful, but too squishy for a melee (in my hands anyway, maybe I'm just not used to melee, I mostly play Ori and Caitlyn.)

[Math_Mage]

There is only one song that can be played while playing Xin Zhao. Same goes for Nasus.

[Mr. Zolrane]

There is only one song that can be played while playing Xin Zhao. Same goes for Nasus.

I feel like I missed the joke . What song would that be?

[Zen Master]

*cough* "Shen is an outstanding support" and "Shen only ever fails if his carry fails" are statements that can be argued without "attacking you for stating you enjoy Shen." Toasty was rather harsh--if you've noticed, he has something of a personal dislike for non-meta picks--but disagreement is not persecution.

You are absolutely right. However, a simple "I disagree" would achieve that.

Long posts with calculations, cross references, other champions and so on and so on - long after I've stated my complete lack of interest in arguing the piont - isn't just arguing the point.

A point I never made in the first place. I merely stated an opinion. With celebration, to be sure - but I reserve that right.

[Mr. Zolrane]

I feel like any song that is exceptionally profanity-laden would work for Teemo...

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Blitzcrank. You know what it is before clicking the link

Edit: Graves?

I feel like I missed the joke . What song would that be?

Xin Zhao.

[ex cathedra]

Does anyone do a particularly good job of countering Cassiopeia? I've been finding myself struggling with her recently... I don't often play APs in ranked games, but of my recent losses, almost every time has had a Cass on the enemy team. My gut instinct is just to send Galio, but not every team will let you do that. In the meantime I've just been making sure to ban her every time I'm captain, if I don't have a teammate who wants her. >.>

Cassiopeia is the best laner in the game. She has no counters, played properly. Though if you outplay her, you can fare quite well with most assassin types (Kass, LeB, Fizz off the top of my head). In general, mobility to avoid her Q/W and thus the damage chain, and burst+reach to punish her for openings she leaves, are the key.

Similar to Neoseanster's point, I've seen Galio (R>Q>W>E) do very well against Cass in both my own experience and in high Elo streams. The only situation in which she can force Galio out, disregarding jungle interference and significant differences in play skill, is when she has blue buff but Galio does not.

In other news: I took a play out of Aether's book and build Wit's End on GP against an almost all Magic team. It worked. Really well. Like, really, really well.

I truly believe that Wit's End is currently OP (if only slightly) by virtue of its absurd cost and the general weakness of MR itemization.

The only other items that give Negatron-Cloak levels of MR are the Negatron Cloak items themselves. BVeil is super overpriced, FoN is highly situational and super expensive, and QSS doesn't do enough for the slot it costs unless you're a glass cannon. But 50 MR on an item that also gives 40% attack speed and almost a BF Sword's worth of damage (the difference between physical and magical damage is mostly only important if you rely on AD's scaling properties, which many bruisers do not. I find that GP can function well in a support-tank role, so there's really no disadvantage to the on-hit damage) is just silly.

The MR buff and on-hit both apply on Parrrley, too. I don't see why people don't consider it more often. The fact that IEdge, Triforce and Atma's are all relatively solid purchases on Gangplank doesn't actually make builds that don't include them unviable.

Some people look forward to new champions (or new specific types of champions, e.g. the incoming support champion), new mechanics, or potentially even new maps (which I don't get but w/e). The only thing that I want to see out of the Season 2 development cycle is more itemization options. The champion roster and the metagame have outgrown the current store's repertoire. Locket is a pretty cool item and an excellent addition, I hope that they keep it up.

Long posts with calculations, cross references, other champions and so on and so on - long after I've stated my complete lack of interest in arguing the piont - isn't just arguing the point.

A point I never made in the first place. I merely stated an opinion. With celebration, to be sure - but I reserve that right.

You don't seem to understand that other posters have just as much right to disagree with your opinion as you have to share it. Additionally, I expect that many of us (myself included) are more interested in the conversation itself than your participation in it. I feel that you really need to calm down and I would suggest that you take things less personally.

[Lix Lorn]

I feel like I missed the joke . What song would that be?

BE A MAN
...is Xin Zhao. Dunno about Nasus.

[Dogmantra]

Okay, before this thread gets modded, let's do something silly to blow off steam. One idea I had was assigning each champ a humorous theme song.

I've actually named all my rune pages after songs, mostly based on the primary champion that I use with them. I'll see if I can get links to all the songs ;)

My Ezreal page is called The Painfully Indie
My generic mana using mage page I named when I was on a Morgana kick, so it's still called She's An Angel
Unfortunately I don't have a link to it, but my Teemo page is called Little Mouse, which is a song from the hilarious TV show Look Around You.
My Kennen page is called Four Foot Squirrel (for some reason the first one is a cover and the second one is the original my links make no sense)
My other generic mage page which I made mostly 'cause I was on a Viktor kick is called Computer Assisted Design
My attackspeedy jungler page is Faster
And my Lee Sin/pretty much anyone AD page is called Hearing Aid



I also feel like Yakety Sax would be a good Singed theme.

[Mr. Zolrane]

Blitzcrank. You know what it is before clicking the link

Edit: Graves?



Xin Zhao.

Re: Blitzcrank: I really should have seen that coming, you're right.

Re: Graves: The Graves hyperlink is broken. I can see it just fine in the quote, but the hyperlink does not work. The song is very appropriate though. I would also have accepted Bad Company.

Re: Xin Zhao: YES! That is amazing. Not sure it's what Math_Mage was referring to, but excellent nonetheless.

[Fredaintdead]

BE A MAN
...is Xin Zhao. Dunno about Nasus.

The Nasus Dubstep?

WE WILL LIVE, THEY WILL DIE.

[Mr. Zolrane]

Also, this is the most amusing one for Amumu I could think of that wasn't overly obvious.

[PEACH]

EDIT: This was mostly in response to Aether's post

MR itemization is very weak in general, but I think Riot wants it that way. Armor items and physical damage in general both tend to have pretty multiplicative and cheap effects, while MR items and, to a lesser extent, AP items are less multiplicative.

Still, better CDR/sustain options for AD casters, MR itemization, and maybe an AP item or two (perhaps a new spell vamp item that's individual with some new rider effect added on) would be nice.

As for the Cass discussion: I'm pretty sure, in addition to having great poke, if she lands her ult she has the highest damage in the game during that CC time and some pretty absurd scaling (mostly because her E is a .75 second cooldown skill, counting travel time, that has 2/3rds the damage and 4/5ths the scaling of most 4-5 second cooldown single target normal skills), and landing her ult isn't that difficult in a lot of situations. Some people can probably beat her out, sure, but her level 6-9 instakill potential is absolutely massive even compared to other squishy AP casters. I really think she's almost always going to be problematic as long as her E exists, because it leads to the problem where it's not satisfying to use it for poke normally if it's too weak (essentially turning it into an active bonus on her Q/W), but if it's good enough to be worth casting every 5 seconds, it's absurd every .75 seconds.

[Mr. Zolrane]

I've actually named all my rune pages after songs, mostly based on the primary champion that I use with them. I'll see if I can get links to all the songs ;)

My Ezreal page is called The Painfully Indie

I also feel like Yakety Sax would be a good Singed theme.

That "Painfully Indie" song was hilarious. Thank you for that, Dogmantra.

Re: Singed: Hahahaha, yes! Either that or the Trololol song. There really is no joy greater than playing Singed and realizing that they are, contrary to all good sense, chasing you.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Re: Graves: The Graves hyperlink is broken. I can see it just fine in the quote, but the hyperlink does not work. The song is very appropriate though. I would also have accepted Bad Company.

I fixed it. And I must commend your tastes.

[ex cathedra]

Regarding Cassiopeia, it's worth pointing out that several high level players considering the strongest four mages to be Cassiopeia, Ryze, Karthus, and Morgana. Of those, three of them are the only three primarily DPS (rather than burst) mages in the game. The fact that DPS is worth more than burst on a carry is really just fundamental and it would take either severe nerfs or an extensive set of reworks to really change anything about the way things are.

[PEACH]

Regarding Cassiopeia, it's worth pointing out that several high level players considering the strongest four mages to be Cassiopeia, Ryze, Karthus, and Morgana. Of those, three of them are the only three primarily DPS (rather than burst) mages in the game. The fact that DPS is worth more than burst on a carry is really just fundamental and it would take either severe nerfs or an extensive set of reworks to really change anything about the way things are.

Yeah, that fundamentally makes sense, but the annoying thing about Cass is that her two second burst is still the highest in the game, excluding maybe a Ryze with really fast fingers. That's part of the problem with her; if she lands her ult, the total amount of damage she deals is huge, and unlike other mages, she'll still deal that as you get away instead of being done.

[Mr. Zolrane]

I must commend your tastes.

Thank you, same to you.

More songs!

Fiddlesticks (Obvious, I know, but there it is)

Ahri

Mordekaiser

[Dogmantra]

I'm actually working on a song for Blitzcrank right now

it goes like
"beep boop I'm a robot/I'll show you what I've got"

but I don't have any more lyrics ;_;

[Lix Lorn]

Unfortunately I don't have a link to it, but my Teemo page is called Little Mouse, which is a song from the hilarious TV show Look Around You.

Squeak. =D

[Math_Mage]

I feel like I missed the joke . What song would that be?

Xin Zhao is, of course, what others have already posted (though I wasn't thinking of the MLP version, haha).

Nasus is "Who Let The Dogs Out?"

Oh, and Singed's is that "Mix mix swirl and mix" song that was submitted to Songs of the Summoned.

[Dogmantra]

Squeak. =D

Oh my oh my oh MY I LOVE THIS SHOW
(and this was my second favourite episode, the best of course being the one about Maths)

For anyone who wanted to do a cover of this song, it's in the key of S.

EDIT: HOLY BALLS this is an even fuller full version than the one that the BBC site had on it (that one ends at "can't you see it's meant to be?")