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2012-03-19, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Reading, UK
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Oh i'm not don't worry. I've seen him totally dominate a Cass mid to the point where she was just a total irrelevancy for most of the game. And then there was the guy last night who was destroyed in the same match up. Was just interested to get some ideas from members on the board.
People here seem to think he's strong, within a niche, but i've seen the most complaints when he's picked compared to most other champs. I did see the player I mentioned above provide the slipperiness that has been mentioned. Having been jumped 3v1 his quick use of playful/trickster got him out of danger totally unscathed. I've been interested in trying him out so given the feedback i'll give him a whirl in a few games.
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2012-03-19, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Is something glitched with my client? I just got Kogmaw, and it feels like his AA range is barely longer than Sivir's, and his W doesn't improve that very much.
Seriously, if I'm playing against a melee, I barely have time to get off 2 AAs before he reaches me.
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2012-03-19, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Fayetteville, AR
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2012-03-19, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Connecticut
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Welp, that was one of those nights... four miserable losses in a row, followed by five easy wins. I seem pretty stuck around 1800.
If you ever start to think for just a moment that the ragetastical poorly performing players will disappear once you're a decently high elo, you're sadly oh so very wrong. I was stuck supporting an Ezreal who yelled at and eventually actually began threatening our Cassiopeia because she fed the other team's LeBlanc... and then next game I get to lose to the same fellow, who goes on bragging about how incredible he is for getting fed off our mediocre Ashe. Some people are just plain unpleasant.Last edited by Neoseanster; 2012-03-19 at 10:35 AM.
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2012-03-19, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Fizz is a lot of fun, but I feel like he's a really risky pick. He's incredibly weak for the first three levels or so, then suddenly finds his footing. If your opponent really presses his advantage at the start, though, it gets really rocky. You're a very fragile melee character, thus vulnerable to bring prevented from any farm, or even being zoned. Fizz can't really be ganked mid, though, since trollpole brings you pretty much under your tower given how short mid is
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2012-03-19, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Midwestern United States
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
is it possible to build AP shyvana? i see the logic and power of her standard builds, but those scaling AP abilities make me think she might make a good Nuker. Seems almost like tristana in that regard.
Am I crazy? or is this, like, a good idea?Custom avatar by me - based on my Half-Orc Eldritch Knight, Keth d'Lordran
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2012-03-19, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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2012-03-19, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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2012-03-19, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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2012-03-19, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Does anyone know why Volibear isn't seen as a more competitive jungler? In my experience I have a lot of success with him, and he has a good balance between good early ganks and late game strength. His level 3 ganks in particular are extremely strong, combining 3 great ganking mechanics - move speed buff, dragging an enemy back, and a slow - and good damage from the W active and the faster auto-attacks from the W passive.
I'm also trying to resolve a Volibear build issue. I almost always start with boots + 3, and I'm very happy with that since I hit 388 movespeed at level 1 (more if I had movespeed quints) and he doesn't go too low on HP even with a weak blue pull thanks to E mitigating quite a lot. But after that I normally go for HoG, wriggles, finish merc treads, then warmogs. I really want to fit wits end in there earlier but I'm not sure whether it's worth delaying warmogs. I'm also not sure about the GP10 approach, and whether wriggles is actually a good item. I want to fit atmas in there for obvious reasons, ending up with something along the lines of: Merc Treads, Warmogs, Wits End, Atmas, Frozen Mallet + one more depending on the situation: maybe Randuins, maybe FH, maybe FoN, maybe something more aggressive.
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2012-03-19, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Problems with Volibear jungling:
He's not as fast and his ganks aren't as strong as others. While he does have great CC with toss, and can move quickly, he doesn't exactly clear super fast or super high, and he's weak to invasion to some extent (the cooldown on bite is so high that if another jungler engages right after you use it, you really can't do anything to win the duel).
The lategame problems: He's not as inherently tanky as other people, and his bases aren't as great. While a fling and a good single target nuke are nice, he's not bringing the kind of AoE damage that Skarner or Shyv or Maokai will, or the AoE CC and single target deeps that Lee Sin will. The fact that his ult is a good on hit for magic damage but, being magic damage, scales terribly as people tank up is also problematic.
In general, I see him considered as OK; not good enough to justify nerfs and not bad enough to justify buffs. He basically brings decent, but not amazing strength everywhere.You rang?
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2012-03-19, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
For what it's worth, I think he's a lot stronger top than in the jungle, and I think he's also a lot stronger top than people give him credit for.
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2012-03-19, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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- With Uncle Crassius
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
I would imagine it's also because his scaling is all over the place.
He's got a defensive/health scaling passive, a non scaler, a health scaler, an AD/onhit scaler, two AP scalers and an attack speed scaler.
What on earth kind of items do you build there.
(I assume the idea is that you suck it up and build a Mallet + some onhits, but still he has some of the most bizarre scaling, even Yi's scaling is more streamlined)Last edited by Dogmantra; 2012-03-19 at 12:58 PM.
BANG → !
OH LOOK AT HER/.../YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN/YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN/YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN MEAN/RICHARDS
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2012-03-19, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Whenever I think of a non-synergistic character, Mundo comes immediately to mind. Let's give him a defensive steroid (scales with HP and resists) an AD steroid (scales with attack speed and crit) an AoE damage aura (scales with AP and MPen) and a percentage based skillshot (scales with MPen and CDR). The only options that really work are CDR tank and tanky DPS, and either of those really only takes advantage of a couple skills fully, just sorta using the others as filler.
On a side note, I was in a custom game with a friend who was trying Mundo for the first time (he rather liked having 170 AD at level 5 with only a Vamp Scepter) and he remarked "Man, give any other character any one of these abilities and they'd be ridiculous, but somehow when you combine them they actually get weaker."
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2012-03-19, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
I have had a decent time with him building Wiggle, Mercs and a Wits End for core items, while then adding tanky stuff depending on opponents setup.
thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-19, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Assuming you're talking about Mundo and I didn't manage to sneak a post in between you and Dog, I prefer Zeke's for my Vamp Scepter item and Aegis for my early defenses. Slightly weaker right when Wriggle's would normally be purchased, but Zeke's is stronger later on. Don't need to get it early, either, as Mundo has great retention with just a Vamp Scepter due to Masochism, and between E and W he clears faster than the overwhelming majority of junglers in the game. Wit's End, Vamp Scepter, Aegis and Phage is what I would build for, going for an eventual Atma's, Mallet and Zeke's. Last item is to taste, I typically consider Randuin's, GA or FoN, depending on the enemy teamcomp. If defenses aren't necessary, Infinity Edge works surprisingly well due to the crit from Atma's and Mundo's naturally outrageous AD.
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2012-03-19, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
His clear isn't anything to write home about, but it certainly doesn't feel slow. There are better gankers, but the ganks feel strong to me (though they are pretty heavily countered by immobilise, I must admit).
I'm not convinced on some of the late game problems there. His AoE damage with his ult active is actually pretty decent (especially when his attack speed is charged), and the fact that it's magic damage isn't really significant because you're not going to be building armour penetration anyway. Against a target without defensive items, it'll actually be stronger due to armour scaling. In terms of single target damage he gets more of an attack speed buff from W than Lee Sin does from his passive, and while Lee Sin has stronger damage abilities I think they probably come out with roughly similar damage potential. W is a long cooldown, but it hits like a truck compared to anything Lee Sin can do other than ulting, given a typical build on both characters.
I'm not sure about him being stronger top, but he is very good top. Play him against GP and GP will end up having to sit as far away from you as possible hoping that he can leech a little bit of experience.
On Volibear in general, I suppose I have to broadly agree that he doesn't excel in any particular area (or with any particular stat, as pointed out by Dogmantra - though I do think at least Atmallet/Atmogs is a perfect bit of kit due to the health scaling and AS steroid). In higher level play, I suppose you want champions who are optimised for their role and will play exactly that role, but in my games, I like a champions that can be all rounders, and that's what Volibear feels like to me.
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2012-03-19, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Jungle Volibear just seems like he does all the same things as Udyr but worse.
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2012-03-19, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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- Duitsland
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Well, the stats might be all over the place, but they work really well together - pop ult to be fast and ignore damage, run in, Cleaver to slow someone and stick to them, Masochism for more damage and Burning Agony it AoE (it, incidentially, also gives him pretty good farming ability). Spam cleaver, keep them in range, smack and burn them to death.
I was going to talk about my Mundo build, then I realized you were all talking about Jungle Mundo, who I don't play. (To be honest, this could be because, in my first two games as him, I started off in a 2v1 lane and got double kills by 15 minutes.)
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2012-03-19, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
So I've been starting to play Alistar. I played him as support for 2 games yesterday and it was pretty good, even though I messed up the first game quite a bit. Then today I tried him in the jungle. Verdict? Best. Ganker. Ever.
We lost the game because mid and both bot guys were a team and all had connection issues (mid actually did pretty decent, but bot just got no cs and died over and over) but playing Alistar was unbelievable fun - I've not played anyone as good as him for making hilarious big plays. I'm also hoping I'll have some potential to be good with him in ranked games (I hit 30 yesterday :D) - everyone on my team was like "Alistar so good!", "Best Alistar EU!" before I told them it was my 3rd game with him ever!
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2012-03-19, 05:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
I had the opposite experience last night playing against Kog as Ashe--that "holy **** he can attack me from there?!" feeling. (Still won the game, though. DEM ARROWS SO STRONK especially when you're cooperating with a Mordekaiser against four squishy targets.)
Max W, and you can hit people who are SO far away. And that's before accounting for his ult range.
I hope you reported him both games.
Idiocy never goes away in solo queue because idiocy is relative. And rage will never go away because rage is (largely) independent from skill level.
Yay, another convert. (But play Ashe, Nunu, Karthus, Morgana, Janna, Kennen, Lee Sin, Blitzcrank, and Galio for some other champions that have hilarious big play potential.)
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2012-03-19, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Eh... I know, but something about the jungle just urks me from wanting to learn it. I've considered Philo for the extra gold yes, but... I'll be frank, I never really liked Shurelya's. It's one of those items I always forget is active, and I understand how useful it could be, but still, I don't find it my cup of tea, or rather, I've never had a reason to really really like it, which I don't.I pretty much agree on all points. Wits > Ionic (though Ionic Spark is 12 X more fun)True... ...you know, I might just swap out the FoN for a Sunfire...Agreed. I didn't know why until recently (and by recently I mean when I started playing Yorick and Ryomasa was rawring at me to buy it for x reason, and I was like "Ooh, that's why it's so good!")
I've started streaming again.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
I started my first campaign outside of an abandoned mine, just as soon as a meteor storm from the moon hits.
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2012-03-19, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Connecticut
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
I tried jungle Alistar for the first time in ranked today myself, it's great fun.
...of course, what probably helped a lot was that their team was... uhm... well, they had a Clarity/Heal Soraka middle, who built tanky (not even tanky AP, like RoA; her first major item was a Frozen Heart), and they had no AP carry at all otherwise. I think I can leave it at that. >.>;
I started boots/3 potions, then built philosopher's stone and HoG, then boots 2/5, then Shurelya's, Glacial Shroud, and the game was over. I think next time I'll upgrade my boots sooner, the extra ganks should more than make up for the slower GP/5.Last edited by Neoseanster; 2012-03-19 at 05:33 PM.
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2012-03-19, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
The reason I pick up Wriggle's on skarner when jungling is twofold:
A: It makes buffsteals take literally less than 10 seconds. I play a very aggressive jungle skarner, so wriggles is useful for getting big camps out of the way so fast that even if they warded red, I could kill it and start running towards the nearest sidelane before the enemy mid could even reach me.
B: Skarner has *ridiculous* multiplicative scaling with resists already, and lifesteal and spell vamp (Wriggle's only brings lifesteal, but it brings a good amount; before the Gunblade nerfs, it was almost worth it as a last item if you were already tanky enough to survive burst and wanted to just pile on the damage) both help that out even further. In sustained fights where he can AA a lot, shield+E can get near warwick levels of free health back; combine that with Wriggle's for a fairly cheap source of armor, lifesteal (which helps the multiplicative aspect) and damage, and Skarner gets hugely multiplicative. The wriggles isn't so much for jungle sustain, though it does help out with that (it saves mana because you don't have to shield and/or E, which are your big mana hogs, in order to not take damage) but for the in fight utility of getting increased HP gains per second. Skarner truly does work as a lifesteal+resists tank if he can manage to isolate the enemy burst damage or carry, which he is very good at.
Philo just doesn't give me the feeling of getting control of the enemy buffs and allowing early dragons and early barons, which is the primary reason, and the lifesteal tanking is a nice side effect. Philo into speed+CDR+HP is a fine option as well, but it isn't my cup of tea. I'll grant my cup of tea is violent and sometimes a little bit reckless, though.
As for RoA: Skarner does not have a health problem. The only problem Skarner has with effective health is not having enough resists. At 1.0 attack speed (arbitrary and probably lower than his level 18 base, but for ease of use), no stats of any kind, and only hitting one target with E, his effective in fight healing with W and E is 54 per second. With 40% CDR, it's 90 health per second (as a comparison, 40% CDR WW with 1.0 aspd is only bringing 109 HP per second, and Q healing is, I believe, negated somewhat by MR).
At that point, any form of flat health boost tends to be dwarfed by the benefits of flat resistances; as a tanky DPS champ, Skarner can easily survive for the few seconds it would take to shoot his effective "base" health through the roof. In lane, it's no less useful (though mana can be an issue) because shield+resists can negate a lot of harass instead of having it slowly eat into your permanent health pool.
That's also why I don't recommend Sunfire on Skarner. If you want an armor item for Skarner, I greatly prefer (besides Wriggles and the obvious FH), a Randuins. Minor CC to patch you up to near 40 with a FH and some from masteries/runes, plus AoE slows (well, more of them) and reducing attack speed of your enemies, which is nice. For MR, I tend to like Banshee's more, because although it's expensive, Skarner tends to do poorly if he gets CC'd before he can get in the thick of things and start hitting with empowered Qs.Last edited by PEACH; 2012-03-19 at 05:50 PM.
You rang?
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2012-03-19, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Back after several months of not playing due to crappy internet.
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Currently been practicing Ahri.I am:
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2012-03-19, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
I just love any champion that can pull off something ridiculous. I'll have to look at some of those - I actually own Morgana but I've never really played her (think I played her once at low level and didn't get to grips with her properly), and I recently bought Janna because frankly she's absurdly powerful, but I've only played her in dominion so far because I'm worried I'll be a huge screw up.
Just had another support Alistar game which was extremely close fought, with players of pretty even skill on both teams and some very exciting teamfights. Now I'm getting more familiar with the Alistar skillset I like to think there were a few that I made the difference on with some good initiating.
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2012-03-19, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
I have a sneaking suspicion that you are counting Warwick's Q as the flat damage. I feel compelled to point out that it is not possible for any level 18 champion to have so little HP that the percentage damage is weaker.
If you count up the effective HP gained per attack, Skarner gets about 45 HP per auto attack (requires 40% CDR and mana, goes up by 15 per second per target), while Warwick heals for ~48 (requires something to hit). Warwick's entire total scales with Spirit Visage, less than half Skarner's does (assuming single target). Warwick has a bigger attack speed steroid with 100% uptime, rather than going down as soon as the shield pops, and he has a higher base with higher per level scaling on attack speed, so attack speed items and steroid give him a larger number of attacks for the same percentages. Sure, Skarner has really good sustain in fights but it just doesn't compare to the master.
Oh, and 40% CDR Warwick landing Q on a bog standard level 18 Anivia (no HP items, no MR items) heals for about 55 per second (just from Q) compared to Skarner's roughly 45 (not counting CDR passive). Now, Warwick's Q will heal for less against MR, more against health. If you were to hit an Anivia with RoA and an Abyssal, it'd heal almost exactly the same amount, in an odd circumstance or me picking a breakpoint at complete random.
EDIT: And in case it came across as anything else, I'm not saying Skarner has bad teamfight EHP. Far from it, it's just that he doesn't really match up to Warwick.Last edited by fred dref; 2012-03-19 at 07:49 PM.
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2012-03-19, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Skarner's shield actually has ridiculous uptime if you're constantly attacking, just because, while it does get blown up pretty quickly, has an effective cooldown, with 1.0 aspd, of 4.2 seconds, and with 2.0 aspd, an effective cooldown of 2.8 seconds (obviously, it won't be quite perfect). And yeah, WW's was counted flat; the percentage is always better, so Skarner does have a disadvantage there. I wouldn't call Spirit Visage necessarily the greatest item now, but it does give WW a bit of an edge in the effective HP department.
My point wasn't that he beat out WW; he still loses even in close to optimal conditions. My point was that he actually gets similarly incredible levels of health per second, to the point where actually building health on Skarner is much less efficient than armor.You rang?
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2012-03-19, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Fayetteville, AR
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
Shurelya's is just wonderful for both initiating with your ult and pulling someone as far as your ult will allow. Make yourself learn to use active items; if you don't, you're missing out on some of the most powerful items in the game. It also provides CDR.
Don't; upgrading your sunfire costs 800 gold and provides 20 HP and the aura. It's a horribly cost inefficient item. Randuin's is a much stronger choice.
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2012-03-19, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!
I've started streaming again.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
I started my first campaign outside of an abandoned mine, just as soon as a meteor storm from the moon hits.