Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

[Tanuki Tales]

Hey, sorry guys. I was working down my grandparents yesterday and was dead tired afterwards, so that's why I didn't get any run-downs churned out.

And I'm not sure about today either 'cause my mom got swarmed by Yellowjackets in the backyard and my brother's nose cauterization seems to come undone again, so I'll be running doing chores and being nursemaid.


....


I'll try to get some run-downs if I can.

[masterstalker2]

Where were you for that to happen?

Also, seeing how this is the last day of the competition, I'm getting off my lazy ass and getting to work on my class.

[Tanuki Tales]

Where were you for that to happen?

Just home. We have a lot of logs in the backyard garden for aesthetics and the caut' can come undone naturally, so it just hit without warning

Also, seeing how this is the last day of the competition, I'm getting off my lazy ass and getting to work on my class.

In light of my hectic past week, Giants being down all of Thursday/Friday and my internet having been shot to Hell because of the massive storm that hit Maryland Friday night, I hereby extend the contest until 7/9/12.

I'll have the new contest up when I get a chance.

[Milo v3]

Okay I've started on my entry for the next competiton entry. I was going to eventually make it, so this is good chance to make it now.

[Tanuki Tales]

Got to love how the holidays can eat you.

But now's time for the rundown of the Khan!


Fluff

• In the fifth sentence you should use "their army", not "his army" and "they" and not "he" since you pluralized Khan at the beginning of the sentence.
• In the fifth sentence I think you meant "may pillage" not "make pillage".
• In the last sentence in the first paragraph you're missing the "to" between him and pass.
• Something sounds wrong with "subjugate them to you" but I'm not sure what exactly.

Mechanics

• I'd just like to point out that you seem to favor many short sentences that tend to border on almost being fragments. I'd suggest combining multiple sentence and just rewriting them to flow better.

Welcome to the Family

• I think you meant "gets a Will save to end the effect with a +2 bonus to the result" instead of "gets a will save to end the affect at +2".

Ok, grammar is out of the way.

• Why are Khans evil? Nothing specifically in it's mechanics screams to me as being flat out evil. And even if they are evil, why isn't it one of the entry requirements?
• So, is this class meant to be entered at level 10 or level 15?
• What class(es) do you expect to have the easiest entry into this class?
• You are aware that there aren't a lot of good feats attached with Mounted Combat, right? It looks like most of them are even setting/organization specific.
• For getting 4+Int mod skill ranks it does get a small amount of class skills.
• Why does Reversal of Fortune only give a flat -2? That's kind of pathetic at the level you get it. I would think it'd be more poignant to have it negatively apply any morale bonuses the Khan grants its allies. And is there any range or limits to this ability?
• Skilled Rider could be worded better to explain how it works exactly and what are the limits to it. I mean, it sounds like the Khan could just pick the Tarrasque and just needs to beat a DC 25 Handle Animal check, which is pathetically easy.
• Surrender or Die is a weird ability since it's the only hint of Supernatural in the class at all. You also don't need to mention it ignores Spell Resistance, Supernatural abilities already do that and what exactly does "spell defenses" mean? And should this not be a Fear effect? The DC for this is also kind of ridiculous.
• Welcome to the Family seems to kill you more than help you. And it's worded poorly so I had trouble understanding exactly how it works.
• I have to wonder about a class that revolves around Leadership. I mean, I understand how it pertains to the theme of the class, but I would have personally just given it a unique mechanic that mimics a more toned down, restricted form of Leadership.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright folks, the voting thread is up for the Fourth contest, so please go vote!

And though we only ended up with 3 entries (and bless you Midwoka for giving us a last minute entry) this month, hopefully we'll see more entries this month, especially since some of our favorite contestants weren't with us last month.

*goes to update his signature and the first post*

And I promise, that at some point this month, that I will actually get the archive for the past entries up.

[Milo v3]

I've already started my entry for this month. It's a desert/arcane/warrior thing from my Campaign Setting.

[Tanuki Tales]

I've already started my entry for this month. It's a desert/arcane/warrior thing from my Campaign Setting.

And I look forward to see it finished.

[masterstalker2]

Milo, the problem I saw with your class is that PF doesn't have maneuvers, so that takes away two parts of the list, and also Stances are feats with feats going off of them.

[Milo v3]

Milo, the problem I saw with your class is that PF doesn't have maneuvers, so that takes away two parts of the list, and also Stances are feats with feats going off of them.

Oh right forgot there are no maneovers. I'll have to figure out a different way to get it to work then.

[Tanuki Tales]

Warp, your entry really doesn't fit the theme of this month's contest. The Gatorfolk have their race having possibly been made for war, but it's really more a throw-away line when it's supposed to be the defining theme for the race.

Like the Warforged are a perfect example of this month's theme for a race entry.

[Warpwolf16]

Warp, your entry really doesn't fit the theme of this month's contest. The Gatorfolk have their race having possibly been made for war, but it's really more a throw-away line when it's supposed to be the defining theme for the race.

Like the Warforged are a perfect example of this month's theme for a race entry.

They are based off the Gatorfolk from blackmoor, they essentially put it as a grand war of evolution between them and the Froglins, a race spawned from frogs and genetic manipulation. I've been working on Blackmoor pathfinder conversions and though 'heck maybe a breed of gatorfolk who are bred for what they deem the War of Evolution' might work, I think I might have some notes on a few other ideas that could be used instead.

If it isnt appropriate I'll try to work something different.

[Tanuki Tales]

They are based off the Gatorfolk from blackmoor, they essentially put it as a grand war of evolution between them and the Froglins, a race spawned from frogs and genetic manipulation. I've been working on Blackmoor pathfinder conversions and though 'heck maybe a breed of gatorfolk who are bred for what they deem the War of Evolution' might work, I think I might have some notes on a few other ideas that could be used instead.

If it isnt appropriate I'll try to work something different.

Ah, in that case, play it up more then. Your fluff is just so sparse and general that until you told me this, I had not a clue.

[masterstalker2]

Hmmmm, I'm willing to do the Warforged for this contest, I've been wanting to do them for a while, but the question is what should their bonuses be, Strength or Constitution, Wisdom or Intelligence.

[Warpwolf16]

Ah, in that case, play it up more then. Your fluff is just so sparse and general that until you told me this, I had not a clue.

okay Troll Brau, I deleted my post for the moment so I can try to fix my problems. I'll post it back up shortly

[Warpwolf16]

Hmmmm, I'm willing to do the Warforged for this contest, I've been wanting to do them for a while, but the question is what should their bonuses be, Strength or Constitution, Wisdom or Intelligence.

Make it flexible? Maybe +2 to any stat, and -2 to any stat? This could represent their dual nature, they may be built for this but are weak in that.

[Tanuki Tales]

Hmmmm, I'm willing to do the Warforged for this contest, I've been wanting to do them for a while, but the question is what should their bonuses be, Strength or Constitution, Wisdom or Intelligence.

I hate to be a downer, but please re-read rule 6.

[masterstalker2]

Alright, but now I'm hoping that a War-based tiger race hasn't been made... SCREW YOU RAKSASHA!

Well, Raksasha aren't a war-focused race, so i could still do a humanoid tiger race, right? or maybe a Half-Dragon race...

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, but now I'm hoping that a War-based tiger race hasn't been made... SCREW YOU RAKSASHA!

Well, Raksasha aren't a war-focused race, so i could still do a humanoid tiger race, right? or maybe a Half-Dragon race...

Nothing wrong with making a new breed of Raksasha; that doesn't violate rule 6.

[Warpwolf16]

Alright, but now I'm hoping that a War-based tiger race hasn't been made... SCREW YOU RAKSASHA!

Well, Raksasha aren't a war-focused race, so i could still do a humanoid tiger race, right? or maybe a Half-Dragon race...

If I remember correctly the Raksasha are based off of a race created to fight a divine war in Hindu mythology and they were a race of felinoids who had been born to simply fight the war, then after the war was over it was never explained what happened if I remember right.

[Warpwolf16]

Gatorfolk has been posted!

[Tanuki Tales]

Alrighty, voting is finished for last month's contest and congratulations to those who won. I'll get onto the trophies for it when I get a chance (along with the past entry archive).

Things are a little hectic around here (between irl junk and me needing to get on working up a campaign for my group), so I'll get to run-downs as well when I get a chance. Hope to see plenty of entries this time around.

[Roxxy]

I believe I'll get in on this one. I will be submitting a base class: the part-time warrior who is too brave, valorous, and generally badass to be a member of the Warrior class. From the army reservist, militia member, or recent military recruit who refuses to watch his homeland burn, to the town guard with more skill and bravery than most, to the Viking or Greek citizen or primitive tribe member who goes out on raids or war parties or defends the tribe when necessary or during the "war season", but does things other than military tasks the rest of the year, this class is all about those for whom fighting is not the primary job, yet whom are dangerous enough to be on par with a Fighter, Ranger, or Barbarian if they must fight.

[Midwoka]

My entry for this one is aaaalmost finished. I bet it'll even be done soon enough to be looked over before the contest ends! =D

It's a monster this time.

[Tanuki Tales]

Time for a rundown on the Gatorfolk!

Quote

• A quote is usually encased in quotation marks and is usually italicized.
• Let, not being a proper noun, shouldn't be capitalized. But if the comma before it is changed to a semi-colon, you'll be fine.

Fluff

• I think you meant "most advanced", not "move advanced".
• I think you meant "most advanced in relation to the". As you have it right now it sounds like Gatorfolk are the most evolved version of Kobolds and Lizardfolk instead of being the most evolved reptilian humanoids (unless you meant the former).
• It should be a semi-colon after Kobolds, not a comma.
• I think you meant "their self-declared" or "self-proclaimed" or something similar, instead of "the self entitled".

Physical Description

• I think you want something like "Though their eyes will appear normal, they will become more slanted and reptilian when entering certain trances or consuming specific mutagens or chemicals. This is a sign that their vision is clouded and they will be liable to attack friend and foe alike." instead of "Though their eyes will appear normal but when they enter certain trances or consume mutagens they will become slanted like reptilian eyes, this is a sign their vision is clouded and will attack allies and enemies".

Society

• The first sentence is just one, long run-on sentence.

Relations

• I think you meant "at odds with most races" instead of "on odd ends to most races".
• There should be a comma between races and preferring.
• You forgot the e in shed.
• I think you want something like, "preferring to shed blood in lieu of polite diplomacy." instead of "preferring to shd more blood then save".
• The first sentence is just one, long run-on sentence.
• I think you meant "lessers" instead of "lesser".

Racial traits

• There should be a space between the +2 and Strength.
• You did not fill in the rules text for medium size.
• I think you meant "Speed", not "Speeds".
• There should be a space between the colon and 30.

Well, that's all the grammar stuff for now.

• First off, I just want to say that I love visualizing this race in my head. I definitely plan to use them in place of Lizardfolk for my setting.
• Did you put any thought into where this evolution obsession of theirs originated from? And were they actually created for war and by whom?
• Why are they good allies with Ratfolk, who are non-reptilians? I could see them being in an alliance of necessity, but nothing further.
• Now, this contest doesn't require the use of the Advanced Race Guide at all, but I'd like to give you your Gatorfolk's (as is) racial breakdown and then my personal rework to give you an idea [I'll be ignoring the points for languages because I think those are asinine]:
  
  
  • Humanoid (Gatorfolk, Reptilian) - 0 points
  • Medium size - 0 points
  • Normal speed - 0 points
  • Weakness (+2 Strength, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma) - -1 rp [ I'm picking weakness and splitting the one -4 into 2 -2s because that's the only one that kind of works ]
  • Darkvision 60 ft - 2 rp
  • Natural Weapons - 10.5 [The price for this ability is the combination of a 10 ft reach on the weapons, having 2 claws, a tail attack and having Improved Natural attack on the Tail slap]
  • Hold Breath - 1 rp
  • Swamp Stride - 1 rp
  • Powerful Build - 3.5 rp
  • Hatred - 1 rp
  
  
  So, that's a total of 18 rp, which is about 4 points north of a regular Drow. So, powerful, but still in the range of a base race for Pathfinder.
  
  
  Now here's mine:
  
  • Humanoid (Gatorfolk, Reptilian) - 0 points
  • Large size - 7 points [I personally roll in the 10 ft reach. I think it's asinine to make you pay extra for it]
  • Normal speed - 0 points
  • Weakness (+4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma) - -1 rp
  • Darkvision 60 ft - 2 rp
  • Natural Weapons - 5 rp
  • Hold Breath - 1 rp
  • Swamp Stride - 1 rp
  • Hatred - 1 rp
    
    So, by making the Gatorfolk flat Large size instead of giving a reach of 10 feet, Powerful Build and making the tail slap do damage as if the Gatorfolk was large, you shave off 2 whole points while netting +2 Strength (and -2 Dex), making them 16.
  
  
  
• So, why don't these guys have a language for themselves?

[Warpwolf16]

Thanks Troll Brau, my original idea was do it large but wasnt sure if that would be a power house of non playability but I'll do some revisions as you pointed out and the grammers mostly my word processors fault, it tends to make misplaces words what it thinks you wanted. Gonna work on it in a minute!

Also as you noted on their evolutionary obsession, they were bred for war by a unknown entity. Gatorfolk claim their masters were avatars of the swamps mutagenic nature, in Blackmoor the Gatorfolk inhabit the swamps around the Temple of the Frog that is lead by St.Stephen, a 'Traveller from beyond the stars so more or less a alien with green skin who the temples people believe is a divine servant and in truth the Toad God manipulated St.Stephen using the technicians and geneticist abilities to improve the 'ultimate' frog race. In my version of Blackmoor the Gatorfolk were created during the early era before mankind had evolved to being aware and able to manipulate magic, so possibly during the time towards the end of prehistory before mass extinction of the thunderlizards, aka Dinosaurs! They were in their infancy following the cataclysm that destroyed them and due to that a mutation occurred causing a tinge of instability.

The comment about the Ratfolk thing is like you said a alliance of necessity, I really should clear it up. The whole reason the two may have a small alliance depends majorly on the Ratfolk, if they are alchemist the Gatorfolk will attempt to purchase or obtain mutagens or curatives for certain battles. Gatorfolk despise Lizardfolk to some degree, they see Lizardfolks attempting to become 'Lizard Kings' as a mockery to the Thunder Lizards of the bygone past. When they see the skeletons of dinosaurs, Gatorfolk Shamans will build totems and fetishes.

Gatorfolk in relation with other reptilian creatures is odd, they see Troglodytes as the end of the reptilians evolutionary chain if they don't achieve a higher branch of the evolutionary tree while they see kobolds as more like vermin that cling to your tail as you walk through much. Grippli and Boggards are frogfolk so they see them as lesser creatures who have to place in the cycle and at the War of Evolution the lesser races will be purged.

I didn't know if they could have their own language, might give them their own language then.

[Tanuki Tales]

Thanks Troll Brau, my original idea was do it large but wasnt sure if that would be a power house of non playability but I'll do some revisions as you pointed out and the grammers mostly my word processors fault, it tends to make misplaces words what it thinks you wanted. Gonna work on it in a minute!

Well, the reason I ended up picking Large size is because you basically gave these guys all the benefits of Large size but did it in a very circuitous way. If you dropped the Tail slap damage die by one step and got rid of the 10 foot reach on the natural attacks, you'd be dropping a whole 5.5 points, making the Gatorfolk 12.5 points.

Now, another question I forgot to mention; why do they get a tail slap and not a bite attack? Usually, as far as I'm aware, bite and claw attacks come before any other more exotic natural attack routines. Besides, gators and crocs are known for their powerful jaws, not their tails.

Also as you noted on their evolutionary obsession, they were bred for war by a unknown entity. Gatorfolk claim their masters were avatars of the swamps mutagenic nature, in Blackmoor the Gatorfolk inhabit the swamps around the Temple of the Frog that is lead by St.Stephen, a 'Traveller from beyond the stars so more or less a alien with green skin who the temples people believe is a divine servant and in truth the Toad God manipulated St.Stephen using the technicians and geneticist abilities to improve the 'ultimate' frog race. In my version of Blackmoor the Gatorfolk were created during the early era before mankind had evolved to being aware and able to manipulate magic, so possibly during the time towards the end of prehistory before mass extinction of the thunderlizards, aka Dinosaurs! They were in their infancy following the cataclysm that destroyed them and due to that a mutation occurred causing a tinge of instability.

That's cool. =O

The comment about the Ratfolk thing is like you said a alliance of necessity, I really should clear it up. The whole reason the two may have a small alliance depends majorly on the Ratfolk, if they are alchemist the Gatorfolk will attempt to purchase or obtain mutagens or curatives for certain battles. Gatorfolk despise Lizardfolk to some degree, they see Lizardfolks attempting to become 'Lizard Kings' as a mockery to the Thunder Lizards of the bygone past. When they see the skeletons of dinosaurs, Gatorfolk Shamans will build totems and fetishes.

So do they treat Lizard King Lizardfolk as the same as Grippli or Boggards?

Gatorfolk in relation with other reptilian creatures is odd, they see Troglodytes as the end of the reptilians evolutionary chain if they don't achieve a higher branch of the evolutionary tree while they see kobolds as more like vermin that cling to your tail as you walk through much. Grippli and Boggards are frogfolk so they see them as lesser creatures who have to place in the cycle and at the War of Evolution the lesser races will be purged.

So they view Troglodytes as the pinnacle of reptilian evolution or do they view them as the ultimate dead end?

And now I'm curious; what are their opinions on dragons?

I didn't know if they could have their own language, might give them their own language then.

Sure. They're a distinct intelligent race so they're bound to have their own language.

[Warpwolf16]

Okay I'll change the tail slap to a bite attack, maybe make the slap attack a alternate racial trait along with some stuff for water adaptation. I originally planned to make a variety of alternate traits so the Gatorfolk could be represented as the different species.


Yes, they'll treat anyone who defaces the memory or remains of dinosaurs.They view the troglodytes as a warped evolutionary dead end while they see dragons as the pinnacle of reptilian evolution that with careful breeding that they may one day achieve. This is one of the few reasons they don't kill kobolds unless they must, they know kobolds are close enough to the dragons own genetic that they one day evolve to have the regal traits of the dragons and their ilk.

[Tanuki Tales]

Okay I'll change the tail slap to a bite attack, maybe make the slap attack a alternate racial trait along with some stuff for water adaptation. I originally planned to make a variety of alternate traits so the Gatorfolk could be represented as the different species.

With that change, on top of the others I mentioned in my last post, it brings Gatorfolk to 10.5 points, so in line with the other races.

Yes, they'll treat anyone who defaces the memory or remains of dinosaurs.They view the troglodytes as a warped evolutionary dead end while they see dragons as the pinnacle of reptilian evolution that with careful breeding that they may one day achieve. This is one of the few reasons they don't kill kobolds unless they must, they know kobolds are close enough to the dragons own genetic that they one day evolve to have the regal traits of the dragons and their ilk.

I like that. Begrudgingly tolerating Kobolds because of their untapped potential (kind of like how all of Dragonlance tolerates Kender ).

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, with the final week of this competition here, time to reveal the theme of next month's contest:

"A Day in the Life"

That's right everyone, next month is going to be the awaited base race centric contest and as such will take a different shape than the previous contests (and a larger work load as well).

You will be making the following as an entry:

• A base race.
• Alternate racial traits for the race (minimum 3).
• Favored class options for the race (minimum 3).
• A Racial Archetype (minimum 1).
• Racial equipment (minimum 1).
• Racial feats (minimum 3).
• Racial magic items (minimum 1).
• Racial spells (minimum 1).