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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Alright, time for another run down for the Worm-Eaten Collective.

    Class skills
    Why does the Worm-Eaten Collective have Disguise as a class skill if they end up taking a massive penalty to it?

    Worm-Eaten
    Now this looks much better. The total HD amount cap is definitely better than having hundreds of 1-5 HD creatures. Are creatures immune to poison immune to this ability since you framed it as being a toxin?

    You may wanted to mention that the nausea affects those who would be otherwise immune to it. That way someone couldn't just dip into Tarvon's Swarmlord and then progress as a caster into this class for no penalty minionmancy. And may I also suggest some unmitigated nonlethal damage on top of the nausea?

    If the Worm-Eaten Collective's charisma score decreases to the point that she can no longer control the entirety of her Horde, she loses the benefits of those Horde Members no longer under her control (which members of the Horde are lost is determined randomly).
    You may want to reword this since it's a carry over from when the class feature dealt Charisma damage.

    Horde Mind
    Looks good.

    Painless
    Looks good.

    Master Collective
    If Worm-Eaten is Ex, shouldn't this be too?

    Sacrificial Centrality
    This ability still needs a cap, especially since you've changed it to up for every 20 hp (so 1 hp from 20 horde members) drained from the Horde instead of 10 from each member. A cap of 10 should be poignant, especially since it'd be a 20th level ability.

    The bonuses have become untyped, but I guess that's fine for a 20th level ability.

    Crown Worm

    Can you explain why it's a Will save and then a Fortitude save for it's Burrowing Bite?

    With Organization, generally mention is made of what each grouping is called.

    You forgot the apostrophe in Victim's.

    Also, I note these guys are just plain vermin. Could you explain what the exact vehicle for the creation of the templated creature is?

    Template
    Why the inclusion of Living Constructs? They would generally seem immune to these guys (lacking a brain and all) and they don't exist in Pathfinder (it's probably product identity). Giant isn't a creature in Pathfinder, it became a subtype of Humanoid. Why are Undead susceptible but not Dragons, regular Constructs, Oozes or Outsiders?

    Why does it lose it's natural armor bonus?

    You should probably just note it has the Mindless ability:

    Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). A Worm-Eaten Creature with an Intelligence score loses this trait.

    Why does it have immunity to Fortitude saves?

    That text in the parenthesis for the immunity to Nonlethal damage isn't really necessary.



    Alright, another run down on the Theg.


    The racial traits still need some cleaning up; let me link you to the Dwarf so you have an example of the formatting.

    Hivemind
    What is the difference between a hostile and non-hostile Theg for this ability. And why the distinction?

    ANH
    Yeah, this is still funky. I really suggest taking my suggested wording for this one. It's clean and simple and based on an existing class ability so it at least has some balance.

    Height/Weight
    Look at the Dwarf's table.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Hivemind
    What is the difference between a hostile and non-hostile Theg for this ability. And why the distinction?
    My thinking was along the lines of this: If humans had a racial ability named cooperation that granted +2 to attack when adjacent to another human, and were fighting another human, of course they would not be granting each other fighting bonuses by cooperating.
    Similarly a Theg will not provide tactical assistance to a Theg on the opposing side, espacially if they are fighting each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    ANH
    Yeah, this is still funky. I really suggest taking my suggested wording for this one. It's clean and simple and based on an existing class ability so it at least has some balance.
    Revised it again. Added another racial trait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Height/Weight
    Look at the Dwarf's table.
    OK, patched up again.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    My thinking was along the lines of this: If humans had a racial ability named cooperation that granted +2 to attack when adjacent to another human, and were fighting another human, of course they would not be granting each other fighting bonuses by cooperating.
    Similarly a Theg will not provide tactical assistance to a Theg on the opposing side, espacially if they are fighting each other.
    Ok, that clears it up. Maybe change the wording to denote that Theg only gain/give this bonus from/to Theg of the same Hive/Colony?

    And I'd reword the last sentence to be, "This is a sonic, mind-affecting ability", because I assume Undead Theg wouldn't gain the benefits, correct?



    Revised it again. Added another racial trait.
    As is, that's kind of powerful for a racial trait. You should probably drop at least one of those skills, if not try to tweak this trait some more.

    And you should have Ancient Laborer treat the Theg as if they were one size category larger for calculating weight capacity.



    OK, patched up again.
    Please take a look again. I'm going to try to explain this again; the Weight modifier is a static number. You do not roll anything to determine the Weight modifier. If your height modifier is 2d4 and your weight modifier is x7 and you roll an 8, that means you add 8 inches to the base height and 56 pounds to the base weight.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Ok, that clears it up. Maybe change the wording to denote that Theg only gain/give this bonus from/to Theg of the same Hive/Colony?
    And I'd reword the last sentence to be, "This is a sonic, mind-affecting ability", because I assume Undead Theg wouldn't gain the benefits, correct?
    OK, changed it to allied Theg. Hmm, If it were a sentient undead Theg it would work fine, its just audiable relaying of information far more rapid than someone could shout a warning in another language. Theoretically anyone that could speak Theg could do it if fast enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    As is, that's kind of powerful for a racial trait. You should probably drop at least one of those skills, if not try to tweak this trait some more.
    Tweaked, no UMD now. I think my combination of racial abilities is on par with the dwarf's now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    And you should have Ancient Laborer treat the Theg as if they were one size category larger for calculating weight capacity.
    Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Please take a look again. I'm going to try to explain this again; the Weight modifier is a static number. You do not roll anything to determine the Weight modifier. If your height modifier is 2d4 and your weight modifier is x7 and you roll an 8, that means you add 8 inches to the base height and 56 pounds to the base weight.
    OK, got it set up just like the dwarf page you showed me now. Still, im sure the way it works is that you roll your height modifier to determine how much weight to add to the base.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    OK, got it set up just like the dwarf page you showed me now. Still, im sure the way it works is that you roll your height modifier to determine how much weight to add to the base.
    Isn't that what I just said?

    And you had the weight mod as a different die size from the height.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Yeah that was a typo sorry

    Anyway were on the same page now so no matter. Good luck to everyone else in the Comp.
    In the meantime im going to look for a nice image to serve as a Theg piccy.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    The brim of my hat has just passed the edge of the ring in the form of the Bastinoi fluff. I'll see to the rest soon.

    Racial enhancement classes are okay, right? Basically a 3 level prestige class that turns these critters into males or females...
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    The brim of my hat has just passed the edge of the ring in the form of the Bastinoi fluff. I'll see to the rest soon.

    Racial enhancement classes are okay, right? Basically a 3 level prestige class that turns these critters into males or females...
    I guess something small would be alright. Just remember that it'll be the race that is being judged upon as that's the core of your entry.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Really, the classes are just a way of keeping the racial write-up from getting too different from standard Pathfinder formatting. Not really any different from racial feats or traits...
    Mine is not so much a Peter Pan Complex as a Peter Pan Doom Fortress and Underground LairTM!
    Fae-o-matic Want a fae from folklore stated? Give me the lore and I'll do it for you!
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Really, the classes are just a way of keeping the racial write-up from getting too different from standard Pathfinder formatting. Not really any different from racial feats or traits...
    Then that's fine. I just don't want anyone doing more work than they have to.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Speaking of races and classes though:

    I'm not sure when the contest will be, but keep an eye out for a contest named "A Day in the Life". That will be the contest where you'll be making a Race and a base and prestige class to go with it.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Oooh, we're past 1,000 page views. Neaters.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Since it looks like most of the statistics are finished and it's just a statblock that needs to be done, here's a run down on the Bastinoi.

    Fluff
    • Are there multiple species of Bastinoi? Otherwise you want "was forcibly" not were.
    • Just a small nit picky thing, but Horshoe crabs actually belong to an entirely separate phylum than the other mentioned creatures. They're not crustaceans.
    • You forgot to capitalize "their" in the second sentence of the third paragraphs.
    • Are brackets more appropriate instead of parentheses when explaining how the joints for the lesser hands work?
    • Primary Maxilla should probably be in quotation marks.
    • Maxilla should be capitalized since you're referring to the same thing and it's a proper noun.
    • Small nitpick, but you do use the word "effect" twice to describe the same thing within two sentences.
    • Again, are brackets more appropriate than parentheses?
    • ^
    • I feel that Food should probably be in quotation marks.
    • Just another comment regarding brackets and parentheses.


    As Characters
    • I think you meant "that" not a second "the" in the second sentence for Relations.
    • You forgot the period at the end of Alignment and Religion section.


    Racial Traits
    • It's perceptive, not preceptive.


    Alright, now the grammar stuff is out of the way, here's a breakdown on questions I have concerning the race's fluff and mechanics:

    • How exactly does a Bastinoi remain genderless after the age of 2?
    • What are the Lothori exactly? Are they an active creator race or are they long gone like the creators of the Theg?
    • Are they meant to be a "monstrous race"? I ask so that I can more fully critique the racial mechanics for the race.
    • How do you perceive this race acting as an adventurer with the common party?
    • Are there no Bastinoi wizards or similar classes?
    • You go into such detail explaining the differences between the three genders but other than height and weight there seems to be no actual mechanical differences between them.
    • Can Heretics be of any gender?
    • What made you choose those racial modifiers? And why strength instead of constitution (especially with your word choice of "hardy").



    Overall, I really like what you've submitted here. You obviously put a lot of time and work into crafting this race and it is filled with minute detail that I love seen taken attention to when it comes to creating a lifeform. I'm honestly surprised that you didn't go the extra mile and come up with some racial favored class options for these guys.

    All in all, this is definitely a race I could see using in a campaign of mine and I definitely would love to play one of these guys.

    Edit:

    Oh and for the record, this is probably how my future posts for run downs will be structured. I don't like how some things get mushed together into paragraphs (when there really is no cohesion). This just reads cleaner and feels more natural to my flow of thought, imo.
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2012-03-15 at 05:58 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    The brackets are just a habit I picked up years ago as a result of a) writing my University essays with an American tutor [she insisted on that thrice damned Harvard quotation system, so there were a lot of brackets] and b) the fact that parentheses are in a stupid place on the keyboard compared to brackets.

    If it REALLY annoys you, I'll change them, but the reason it's annoying you is a university style guide. Newspapers often use brackets exclusively because they printed better in the old days [fun facts].

    Horseshoe Crabs: It does say "creatures as disparate as crabs, lobsters, horseshoe crabs..." I knew they weren't true crabs, but they're close [it's a breathing thing, i think...]

    Maxilla: That's another bad habit from uni...capitolisation of new terms. Fixed.

    Most of the other things have been fixed.

    Other stuff:

    Bastinoi can remain gender neutral by being neither cautious nor aggressive, i.e. not having either of the primary personality types. Obviously, this is rare, though i've added another paragraph explaining the phenomenon. Those who are just cold become strategists, while those who are diplomatic to a fault are usually eaten as the masters have little use for talkers, except in isolated settlements.

    The Lothori are a species of aliens from my MV setting [the Bastinoi are new mind]. Giant 4-D tentacle snowflakes from Beyond Space... Mildly Lovecraftian but their main point is their advanced science [magic being the Mechano version of...it your country doesn't have Mechano...well, I pity that] and the fact that each of them has their own way of doing things. Of the 53 of them on earth...wait, 51 now, two were killed in plot...each has their own way of doing things. Some engineer minions, some create giant spider mechs, some cause political nuisance etc. Four banded together and decided to create armies of easily controlled soldiers; these being one of the results [the most common in game examples are a form of spine-latching parasite, nothing original]. They're active, pay visits and tend to be worshiped by their creations, as I hoped was indicated. I'll try to make that clearer. Bear in mind, I didn't want to info dump about the Lothori in the entry. They might seem more interesting than the Bastinoi.

    What's a "Monstrous race?" They're basically intended to be like Orcs, mostly enemies but the rare heretics can form bonds with humans and go one to function as part of other societies. They suffer a bit from Wookie syndrome, but most weird raced do, at least initially.

    I'm intending to create two three level classes that show the development of male and female characteristics. The males will rage and have a giant claw of doom, the females will have the ability to defend somewhat better than others of the same species and to emergency spawn young swarms. Should really get onto that...

    Yes, heretics can be of any gender, though most likely male or genderless, as those seem the most likely to flee the scene, with their aggression and/or potential to disagree with the Lothori... Not sure how to note that though.

    I suppose the Strength thing came from me looking at crabs and going, "yep, grappling! Erm...strength modifier? Yeah, strength modifier." The wisdom bonus gives them a bonus on Survival, which is fairly hardy seeming. If you think it should really be constitution, I'll consider changing it.

    Thanks for the feedback and I'll get on those classes.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Okay...seriously stumped as to what the prerequisites for the female prestige should be... I hadn't noticed this before but there's a dearth of caution and defence based feats in PF...
    Mine is not so much a Peter Pan Complex as a Peter Pan Doom Fortress and Underground LairTM!
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    The brackets are just a habit I picked up years ago as a result of a) writing my University essays with an American tutor [she insisted on that thrice damned Harvard quotation system, so there were a lot of brackets] and b) the fact that parentheses are in a stupid place on the keyboard compared to brackets.

    If it REALLY annoys you, I'll change them, but the reason it's annoying you is a university style guide. Newspapers often use brackets exclusively because they printed better in the old days [fun facts].
    It doesn't, I was just curious. I personally only use them to supplement parentheses so I was just wondering.

    Horseshoe Crabs: It does say "creatures as disparate as crabs, lobsters, horseshoe crabs..." I knew they weren't true crabs, but they're close [it's a breathing thing, i think...]
    Well, every one of the creatures listed except the Horseshoe Crab is a Crustacean though. The Horseshoe Crab belongs to the same sub-phylum as spiders and scorpions.



    Bastinoi can remain gender neutral by being neither cautious nor aggressive, i.e. not having either of the primary personality types. Obviously, this is rare, though i've added another paragraph explaining the phenomenon. Those who are just cold become strategists, while those who are diplomatic to a fault are usually eaten as the masters have little use for talkers, except in isolated settlements.
    I feel like "often" to "usefulness" should be enclosed in brackets/parentheses.

    The Lothori are a species of aliens from my MV setting [the Bastinoi are new mind]. Giant 4-D tentacle snowflakes from Beyond Space... Mildly Lovecraftian but their main point is their advanced science [magic being the Mechano version of...it your country doesn't have Mechano...well, I pity that] and the fact that each of them has their own way of doing things. Of the 53 of them on earth...wait, 51 now, two were killed in plot...each has their own way of doing things. Some engineer minions, some create giant spider mechs, some cause political nuisance etc. Four banded together and decided to create armies of easily controlled soldiers; these being one of the results [the most common in game examples are a form of spine-latching parasite, nothing original]. They're active, pay visits and tend to be worshiped by their creations, as I hoped was indicated. I'll try to make that clearer. Bear in mind, I didn't want to info dump about the Lothori in the entry. They might seem more interesting than the Bastinoi.
    MV setting?

    Well, I admit that I was curious because of the lack of info, not because of them themselves. I mean, you've seen one Non-Euclidean beastie, you've seen them all; only the servants differ really. But if they are active you'd need at least some information so perspective DMs could work on adapting.

    And I can see where you tried to infer they were active in the lives of the race but I more assumed that because you didn't specify they were dead or gone either.

    What's a "Monstrous race?" They're basically intended to be like Orcs, mostly enemies but the rare heretics can form bonds with humans and go one to function as part of other societies. They suffer a bit from Wookie syndrome, but most weird raced do, at least initially.
    "Monstrous race" is a term that was coined for a certain point threshold level in the playtest of the Advanced Race Guide (which drops next month and will probably affect how the race portion of this contest works from then on [depending on how efficient I feel it is once looking at it and reading other opinions on it]).

    Basically when you get down to it, it's just a fancy way of saying "Monster as PC". I was basically asking if you envisioned these guys to be like Bugbears or such; intended for PC use but with CR baggage.

    I mean, their racial traits are far superior to any of the base races and would warrant them being monsters.

    I'm intending to create two three level classes that show the development of male and female characteristics. The males will rage and have a giant claw of doom, the females will have the ability to defend somewhat better than others of the same species and to emergency spawn young swarms. Should really get onto that...
    Ah. That answers that question. I look forward to it.

    Yes, heretics can be of any gender, though most likely male or genderless, as those seem the most likely to flee the scene, with their aggression and/or potential to disagree with the Lothori... Not sure how to note that though.
    It was more personal curiosity; nothing you really need to note.

    I suppose the Strength thing came from me looking at crabs and going, "yep, grappling! Erm...strength modifier? Yeah, strength modifier." The wisdom bonus gives them a bonus on Survival, which is fairly hardy seeming. If you think it should really be constitution, I'll consider changing it.
    Ah, I can see that line of thought. I was just curious and I'd probably change the word choice from hardy. Another option could be to give them a racial bonus on grappling.

    Thanks for the feedback and I'll get on those classes.
    Always glad to give feedback, for what worth it is.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    I tried to use he race builder playtest but i find the damn thing incomprehensible and poorly laid out.

    On Golden's Guide to Race Building It comes to a 10 point race...ish.

    {table]Humanoid |0 points
    Non human base |0 points
    -2 on a stat in an already penalised category |-1
    Slow speed |-4
    Feat worthy [Heavy Armour]|+4
    Feat worthy [Improved Natural Attack]|+4
    Claws [1d4]|+4
    Swim speed of pantsness|+1 guesstimated
    Can't speak languages|-1
    Armed to the Teeth [+1 NA]|+4
    Total|11[/table]

    And if i strip out the enchanted shell thing, which was only there for adventurers, it's a 9 point race... admittedly with free armour... that's price wise, the same as an Elf in this system.

    Oh, i assumed the risk/reward on the all around vision thing cancelled itself out...
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    I tried to use he race builder playtest but i find the damn thing incomprehensible and poorly laid out.

    On Golden's Guide to Race Building It comes to a 10 point race...ish.

    {table]Humanoid |0 points
    Non human base |0 points
    -2 on a stat in an already penalised category |-1
    Slow speed |-4
    Feat worthy [Heavy Armour]|+4
    Feat worthy [Improved Natural Attack]|+4
    Claws [1d4]|+4
    Swim speed of pantsness|+1 guesstimated
    Can't speak languages|-1
    Armed to the Teeth [+1 NA]|+4
    Total|11[/table]

    And if i strip out the enchanted shell thing, which was only there for adventurers, it's a 9 point race... admittedly with free armour... that's price wise, the same as an Elf in this system.

    Oh, i assumed the risk/reward on the all around vision thing cancelled itself out...
    As you probably noticed, Golden's guide has it's own host of errors.

    And your point cost is off:
    • You made Bastinoi Monstrous Humanoids, not Humanoids. There isn't even a real point cost for that but it's at least 2 because they get some immunity to certain spells.
    • Shell would be at least 20 points. Golden put any kind of AC increase at 4 points per 1 point increase. And I wouldn't take away making it enchantable since it takes up an armor slot.
    • I don't even know how you'd point up all-around vision, even with the weakness you threw in.



    My suggestion for toning them down?

    Knock Shell down to being +1 AC, +1 NA and keep scaling the same way. And then change Eyestalks to some pittance of Blindsense (i.e. a small range) but with the same weakness. Then that should all be fine with the Monstrous Humanoid type.
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2012-03-16 at 11:00 AM.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Humanoid can do for type.

    The all around vision thing is available as a feat. Conservatively with the risks, call it a +2

    I still say the armour portion of the shell is inferior to being able to wear armour. It's 12th level before it matches Full Plate and it only rises two higher overall. I'll forbid enchantment, meaning they'll have to spend on non-standard items to get special armour abilities. Max Dex is 4 btw.

    The +1 Natural armour, i'm not sure about. Without it, a Bastinoi is less resilient than lunch

    Keeping the natural armour, we're at a 9 here.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    The all around vision thing is available as a feat. Conservatively with the risks, call it a +2
    Which feat?

    I still say the armour portion of the shell is inferior to being able to wear armour. It's 12th level before it matches Full Plate and it only rises two higher overall. I'll forbid enchantment, meaning they'll have to spend on non-standard items to get special armour abilities. Max Dex is 4 btw.
    While true, a race getting +5 AC (+4 Armor, +1 NA) right out of the box before you look at anything else is a big thing. You can always fiddle with the scaling but it really should just start out with +1 Armor Class and +1 Natural armor.

    And really, there's nothing wrong with the enchanting balance wise. If I had to give it a point value, I personally wouldn't and you'd have to argue for it to get as high as even 1 point. In fact, I think that'd add some interesting depth to the race at least visually, seeing their carapaces glowing with eldritch runes that were passed down to them by their masters.

    The +1 Natural armour, i'm not sure about. Without it, a Bastinoi is less resilient than lunch
    I never said drop it though.

    Keeping the natural armour, we're at a 9 here.
    Well, we're not adhering to any exact rules for this contest anyways. At least not yet.

    Besides, as the latter posts show, his guidelines (while better than most out there at the moment) are still somewhat borked and we'd be better off just going with our gut and peer review.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Which feat?
    Shrewd Tactician though the effect i was trying to write down is only half of the feat. I knew it was here somewhere. Stance of the Xorn does the same thing too.

    I'll go correct the error in my writing.
    While true, a race getting +5 AC (+4 Armor, +1 NA) right out of the box before you look at anything else is a big thing. You can always fiddle with the scaling but it really should just start out with +1 Armor Class and +1 Natural armor.
    So...an obviously melee centric race should be capped at AC 12 + Dex?

    Does not compute.
    And really, there's nothing wrong with the enchanting balance wise. If I had to give it a point value, I personally wouldn't and you'd have to argue for it to get as high as even 1 point. In fact, I think that'd add some interesting depth to the race at least visually, seeing their carapaces glowing with eldritch runes that were passed down to them by their masters.

    I never said drop it though.
    No, but without the 5 points of protection, the non evasive portion of a Bastinoi's defence is worse than a king crab. Even with a decent dex, they're not going to be more difficult to wound than a king crab under your suggestion...
    Well, we're not adhering to any exact rules for this contest anyways. At least not yet.
    Well, when that mess comes in, I'll stick to other things.
    Besides, as the latter posts show, his guidelines (while better than most out there at the moment) are still somewhat borked and we'd be better off just going with our gut and peer review.
    The Half-orcs did get shafted. Then again, Dazzled immunity would probably fit neatly into "never really comes up so costs 0 points" along with the Dwarf appraise bonus...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Shrewd Tactician though the effect i was trying to write down is only half of the feat. I knew it was here somewhere. Stance of the Xorn does the same thing too.
    Huh. Always figured that Flanking was a bigger thing than that. Guess not then.

    So...an obviously melee centric race should be capped at AC 12 + Dex?

    Does not compute.
    Well, pigeonholing a race into one role is honestly bad design. And building a race that gets +5 AC just for being their race is also bad design for a base race.

    And it does compute for level 1. Heavier armors aren't cost effective until later levels and if your scaling keeps in line with that or just tip toes ahead of it, then the racial feature is both balanced and a good choice.

    You don't want to make a race that screams "take me, don't think of any other race ever!" for a specific role/build. People may argue humans do this, but it's not as glaring in Pathfinder.

    No, but without the 5 points of protection, the non evasive portion of a Bastinoi's defence is worse than a king crab. Even with a decent dex, they're not going to be more difficult to wound than a king crab under your suggestion...
    A King Crab is a small vermin that's only CR 1/4. It's not an intelligent lifeform that can make rational decisions and make proper use of tools and other options. You don't need to be it's equal out of the box, most races are already it's better by being sentient and having a class level.

    And again, these are all arguments if you want to make these guys a base race instead of a Monster race. You need to compare them to a Dwarf, Human, Elf, etc. not a monster.

    I mean, you make them a CR 1 monster and you're fine since the Lizardfolk has +7 AC (5 Natural Armor, 2 from Shield) at the get go.


    The Half-orcs did get shafted. Then again, Dazzled immunity would probably fit neatly into "never really comes up so costs 0 points" along with the Dwarf appraise bonus...
    Right on all accounts. But that's why homebrewing doesn't occur alone or in a vacuum.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Dude, a +4 armour is equal to 15gp of Hide armour and the carapace has worse penalties.

    I said melee centric because they're packing two natural weapons that aren't just a gimmick so its a solid option. Out of everything, they'd probably make good monks, rangers, clerics or psionic warriors, plus the obvious barbarian and fighter.

    Is reducing their starting gold a viable thing? It's not like they really need much. Bow and a shield, maybe a spear and they'd be golden...
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    Whoo, finally got the time to sit down and reply to everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Alright, time for another run down for the Worm-Eaten Collective.

    Class skills
    Why does the Worm-Eaten Collective have Disguise as a class skill if they end up taking a massive penalty to it?
    That is... a very good point. Once again, it seems like I've left something from the first draft in that doesn't make sense anymore, because I changed what I wanted to do with it.

    Worm-Eaten
    Now this looks much better. The total HD amount cap is definitely better than having hundreds of 1-5 HD creatures. Are creatures immune to poison immune to this ability since you framed it as being a toxin?

    You may wanted to mention that the nausea affects those who would be otherwise immune to it. That way someone couldn't just dip into Tarvon's Swarmlord and then progress as a caster into this class for no penalty minionmancy. And may I also suggest some unmitigated nonlethal damage on top of the nausea?
    Sounds good. I don't think I want to put too much Nonlethal Damage, so it may just be 1d4/HD of Slain Horde Member, which would average out to around 20 damage if the biggest guys you've got kicking around go down.

    You may want to reword this since it's a carry over from when the class feature dealt Charisma damage.
    I think keeping it might be worthwhile, because the old ability isn't the only thing that deals Charisma Damage. If a WEC gets Ego Whipped, for instance, they've got that text there as a precedent for what happens to their Horde now that they're Charisma is too low to control all of it.

    Master Collective
    If Worm-Eaten is Ex, shouldn't this be too?
    I'll add that on; I just left it off before because I was thinking of it in terms of modifying Worm-Eaten, and not being a stand alone ability, but I see what you mean.

    Sacrificial Centrality
    This ability still needs a cap, especially since you've changed it to up for every 20 hp (so 1 hp from 20 horde members) drained from the Horde instead of 10 from each member. A cap of 10 should be poignant, especially since it'd be a 20th level ability.

    The bonuses have become untyped, but I guess that's fine for a 20th level ability.
    I think that there is a miscommunication happening with this. When you drain 20HP, you don't drain 20HP throughout the Horde (so you can't take 1 HP from there, and 3 HP from there, etc). Its 20HP from every member of the Horde. If you're horde was made of 13 Creatures, you'd not be taking 20 points out of those 13, you'd be taking 260 points evenly from the lot of them. Thats why I haven't put a cap on, because if you take it to the maximum you can hold, you kill the entire Horde. I think I may lower the duration though.

    Crown Worm

    Can you explain why it's a Will save and then a Fortitude save for it's Burrowing Bite?

    With Organization, generally mention is made of what each grouping is called.

    You forgot the apostrophe in Victim's.

    Also, I note these guys are just plain vermin. Could you explain what the exact vehicle for the creation of the templated creature is?
    Well, the Will Save is to represent the effort of resisting the effects of the Toxin, which is busy trying to turn the brain to Mush, whereas the Fortitude Save is to force them out of your body by...iunno, flexing your muscles

    But seriously, its just representing the physical effort needed to get rid of them without magical healing.

    And you're right, having them just be Vermin opens up all kinds of tricky questions. I'll change them to Aberration, and then I can say that the Mind Control Toxin is a result of creepy lovecraftian alien magic

    Template
    Why the inclusion of Living Constructs? They would generally seem immune to these guys (lacking a brain and all) and they don't exist in Pathfinder (it's probably product identity). Giant isn't a creature in Pathfinder, it became a subtype of Humanoid. Why are Undead susceptible but not Dragons, regular Constructs, Oozes or Outsiders?
    Well, once again, my familiarity with 3.5 betrays me. The most notable example of Living Construct that I could think of was Warforged, who I've never really looked into that much (I don't know that much about Eberron), but I knew they had an Int score, so I wanted to include them as possible candidates. I shouldn't have bothered, really, because I doubt Warforged still exist in Pathfinder.

    My thinking was that Undead would be very simple to take control of, as they are in general automatons in the first place. The Crown Worms get into them, override whatever is controlling them in the first place (for them, the Will Save would probably be whatever force controlling them is coming up against the Crown Worm's influence) and then plugging them into the Collective.

    Dragons should probably be a candidate for control, but for Constructs, Oozes and Outsiders? Well...

    Spoiler
    Show



    I just didn't think the Worms would have much luck with them

    Why does it lose it's natural armor bonus?
    For similar reasons that I changed the Natural Armor boosts in the WEC to DR.

    You should probably just note it has the Mindless ability:

    Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). A Worm-Eaten Creature with an Intelligence score loses this trait.
    Good Call.

    Why does it have immunity to Fortitude saves?
    A Very good question, and one I'm not quite sure of myself. I'll leave that one off.


    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Forgive me for being ignorant, but how would 15/adamantine protect the dragon from hitting the ground at over 4,4 billion newtons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Dude, a +4 armour is equal to 15gp of Hide armour and the carapace has worse penalties.
    I still have a nagging gut feeling about giving that much from just picking the race. I still feel that it should be +1/+1 and just change the scaling so it stays ahead of the other armors. I mean, these guys do blow most other melee choices out of the water, but it's a point I'm willing to concede and leave the final decisions up to you and the voters.

    I said melee centric because they're packing two natural weapons that aren't just a gimmick so its a solid option. Out of everything, they'd probably make good monks, rangers, clerics or psionic warriors, plus the obvious barbarian and fighter.
    Just checking. I trust your skill at homebrewing to not fall for those pitfalls, but I am trying to do my best at critiquing these submissions with a fine tooth combed.

    Is reducing their starting gold a viable thing? It's not like they really need much. Bow and a shield, maybe a spear and they'd be golden...
    I don't know how you'd do this through racial traits unless their body consumed and processed gold. But as I said, it's a point I'm willing to concede.


    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Ladybug View Post
    Whoo, finally got the time to sit down and reply to everything
    Good to see you back! =D



    Sounds good. I don't think I want to put too much Nonlethal Damage, so it may just be 1d4/HD of Slain Horde Member, which would average out to around 20 damage if the biggest guys you've got kicking around go down.
    That should work.



    I think keeping it might be worthwhile, because the old ability isn't the only thing that deals Charisma Damage. If a WEC gets Ego Whipped, for instance, they've got that text there as a precedent for what happens to their Horde now that they're Charisma is too low to control all of it.
    I meant the wording. I may just being seeing it because I knew what originally came before the current version of the ability, but I feel like the current wording was chosen and arranged to be follow up rules text to an ability that did Charisma damage instead of being rules text that explains what happens when you take Charisma damage.


    I think that there is a miscommunication happening with this. When you drain 20HP, you don't drain 20HP throughout the Horde (so you can't take 1 HP from there, and 3 HP from there, etc). Its 20HP from every member of the Horde. If you're horde was made of 13 Creatures, you'd not be taking 20 points out of those 13, you'd be taking 260 points evenly from the lot of them. Thats why I haven't put a cap on, because if you take it to the maximum you can hold, you kill the entire Horde. I think I may lower the duration though.
    [quote]can decrease the hit point total of every member of her Horde as an Immediate action, and for every 20 Hit Points drained from her entire Horde[/b]

    That's the bit that's creating the miscommunication. If you just change the wording from "from her entire Horde" to "from each Horde Member" it eliminates the interpretation that I saw.

    With that change, as a 20th level ability, no cap should be fine.



    Well, the Will Save is to represent the effort of resisting the effects of the Toxin, which is busy trying to turn the brain to Mush, whereas the Fortitude Save is to force them out of your body by...iunno, flexing your muscles

    But seriously, its just representing the physical effort needed to get rid of them without magical healing.
    Well, shouldn't it be Fortitude and then Will? Resisting it burrowing in first and then resisting it's mind affecting effects?

    And you're right, having them just be Vermin opens up all kinds of tricky questions. I'll change them to Aberration, and then I can say that the Mind Control Toxin is a result of creepy lovecraftian alien magic
    And they'd probably be a relative of the Mind Flayer if this was 3.5. xD

    But yeah, with it stopping being a toxin and being mystical in nature, this is answers a lot of questions.



    Well, once again, my familiarity with 3.5 betrays me. The most notable example of Living Construct that I could think of was Warforged, who I've never really looked into that much (I don't know that much about Eberron), but I knew they had an Int score, so I wanted to include them as possible candidates. I shouldn't have bothered, really, because I doubt Warforged still exist in Pathfinder.
    It's fine, twas just curious. But yeah, Warforged are IP of WoTC and I doubt they'll make living constructs in Pathfinder, at least for easy PC use. They view them as too overpowered.

    My thinking was that Undead would be very simple to take control of, as they are in general automatons in the first place. The Crown Worms get into them, override whatever is controlling them in the first place (for them, the Will Save would probably be whatever force controlling them is coming up against the Crown Worm's influence) and then plugging them into the Collective.
    This was more a question back when a poison applied the template and not creepy non-euclidean magic. xD

    Dragons should probably be a candidate for control, but for Constructs, Oozes and Outsiders? Well...

    Spoiler
    Show



    I just didn't think the Worms would have much luck with them
    Well, Elementals are unique as Outsiders anyways.

    These guys can't infect Succubi or Angels?

    Oozes were just thrown in for complete sake and to see what you'd you say.

    Fun fact though: Inevitables aren't Constructs in Pathfinder. They're Outsiders with Construct traits. Got a Con score and Regen and everything.




    For similar reasons that I changed the Natural Armor boosts in the WEC to DR.
    But why do they lose it from a fluff point? A degeneration of the body? Would a snake infected lose its scales? Would a crab it's shell?
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    10 days left of this month's competition everyone!

    Hopefully we'll see some last minute entries but I'm otherwise very pleased with the turn out this contest has seen.

    I'm grateful for each and every entry and hope this will be the beginning of a beautiful thing.
    Last edited by Tanuki Tales; 2012-03-21 at 03:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Alright every one, we're in the home stretch of it now! The final week is upon us and without further ado, I shall be revealing the name of next month's contest. In honor of the upcoming Bram Stoker Centenary Conference, I give you:


    The Path to Castle Ravenloft
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    Well, ain't that ominous... Sounds fun

    Once again, sorry for the delay in-between posts; I have been having a HELL of a week

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    I meant the wording. I may just being seeing it because I knew what originally came before the current version of the ability, but I feel like the current wording was chosen and arranged to be follow up rules text to an ability that did Charisma damage instead of being rules text that explains what happens when you take Charisma damage.
    Okay, I'll see what I can do about making it more accessible.

    That's the bit that's creating the miscommunication. If you just change the wording from "from her entire Horde" to "from each Horde Member" it eliminates the interpretation that I saw.

    With that change, as a 20th level ability, no cap should be fine.
    Easy. Fixing that first

    Well, shouldn't it be Fortitude and then Will? Resisting it burrowing in first and then resisting it's mind affecting effects?
    Okay, I like that. Fort -> Will it is.

    And they'd probably be a relative of the Mind Flayer if this was 3.5. xD

    But yeah, with it stopping being a toxin and being mystical in nature, this is answers a lot of questions.
    Aren't every Aberration?

    It's fine, twas just curious. But yeah, Warforged are IP of WoTC and I doubt they'll make living constructs in Pathfinder, at least for easy PC use. They view them as too overpowered.
    Fair enough. Construct Immunities are pretty potent, and scaling them up when they get Pathfinder-ised wouldn't be a good balance call.

    This was more a question back when a poison applied the template and not creepy non-euclidean magic. xD
    Once again, Aberrations fix everything!

    ...wait, Aberrations normally make everything worsasrfdghyhcb.

    DISREGARD PREVIOUS STATEMENTS HUMANS. ABERRATIONS ARE ALWAYS BENEFICIAL.

    Well, Elementals are unique as Outsiders anyways.

    These guys can't infect Succubi or Angels?

    Oozes were just thrown in for complete sake and to see what you'd you say.

    Fun fact though: Inevitables aren't Constructs in Pathfinder. They're Outsiders with Construct traits. Got a Con score and Regen and everything.
    Nope. Outsiders are, by their very definition, a being of soul and body combined, and contain the essence of their own plane of existence. They are fundamentally different from all the other creatures (except for some Aberrations, but I think that its justified the Crown Worm has some luck with them) the Crown Worm can start chowing on.

    That's interesting. I always liked the Inevitables, will have to take a look at their PF version.

    But why do they lose it from a fluff point? A degeneration of the body? Would a snake infected lose its scales? Would a crab it's shell?
    Degeneration, all day erry day

    And I would say so, at least in some places. Worms would be poking out of them, so those Scales/Shell would be displaced at the very least.

    Tidying up the WEC now.
    Last edited by Golden Ladybug; 2012-03-25 at 03:26 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Forgive me for being ignorant, but how would 15/adamantine protect the dragon from hitting the ground at over 4,4 billion newtons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Alright every one, we're in the home stretch of it now! The final week is upon us and without further ado, I shall be revealing the name of next month's contest. In honor of the upcoming Bram Stoker Centenary Conference, I give you:


    The Path to Castle Ravenloft
    Sounds Gothic.... Vampiric... Bloody... Ruthless.... Interesting...
    My Homebrew (200+) Not up to date

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    By Aruius.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

    Right, I think i've finished my entry. Nothing screams that it needs amending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    Sounds Gothic.... Vampiric... Bloody... Ruthless.... Interesting...
    While i remember, Milo, why on earth would a Spider creature ever be "willingl to be dominated permenantly? There seems to be nothing in it for the spider and they're too stupid to make the conscious decision to lower their save, being mindless...

    The capstone on your assassin makes no sense O.o
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