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    Default Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    Here's a rather silly spell inspired by a friend's chance remark. It turned out pretty flavorful, I think, but I still need to check for balance.

    Buried in History
    Conjuration (creation)
    Level: Sor/Wiz 2, Brd 2
    Components: V, S, SF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half; Will negates (see text)
    Spell Resistance: No

    You cause the weight of the ages to fall on your enemy's shoulders.

    A shower of books appears from nowhere and collapses onto your target, causing 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level, up to a maximum of 10d6. The books vanish after impact and do not affect movement. If the target fails its Reflex save, it must make a Will save to avoid being dazed for one round.

    Concerns: I'm a little sad that this isn't Evocation anymore, but oh well. Conjuration really is a better fit.

    Lorewhelm
    Conjuration (Creation)
    Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Brd 5
    Components: V, S, SF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: 20-foot spread
    Duration: Instantaneous and concentration, up to 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: Reflex half; Will partial (see text)
    Spell Resistance: No, Yes; see text

    As you recite the ancient stories, your enemies are confounded by the surge of books you call into existence.

    A great many books appear in the air and fall heavily, dealing 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level (maximum 15d6) to all creatures and unattended objects within the area (Reflex halves). The books are opened by the fall and remain, open, as long as you concentrate, up to 1 round/level, making the area of the spell difficult terrain. These effects do not allow spell resistance.

    Additionally, every round the books linger, beginning immediately after the initial impact, the turning pages of the books cause all creatures within the area that are not currently dazed to become dazed for the remaining duration of the spell unless they succeed on a Will save. If this save succeeds, they are instead dazzled by the turning pages. Creatures that are blind are immune to this effect, and spell resistance applies.

    Thanks in advance for any critiques!

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    School focus! Also "enunciate" was stupid. Also fiddled with wording of Lorewhelm in various ways to make it easier to tell how long things last. Finally, save-or-daze every round in an area is ... prooooobably too strong for a 4th, even with concentration requirement.
    Took out odd material components
    Tweaked Lorewhelm's radius
    Adjust Lorewhelm's SR and Sor/Wiz level
    Changed Buried in History to Conjuration
    Adjusted effects of Lorewhelm to be more difficult to avoid
    Bumped damage dice for Buried in History from d4 to d6 following Dumbledore's suggestion
    Added Lorewhelm
    Last edited by TuggyNE; 2013-10-06 at 08:03 PM. Reason: School focus, minor wording tweak
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    I'd say it's a perfectly fine level 2 spell, nothing spectacular, I think you could even bump the damage up to d6s if you wanted to, I mean daze is a fine effect but it requires two failed save for it to happen, so it's unlikely.
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledore lives View Post
    I'd say it's a perfectly fine level 2 spell, nothing spectacular, I think you could even bump the damage up to d6s if you wanted to, I mean daze is a fine effect but it requires two failed save for it to happen, so it's unlikely.
    Thanks, I put the die size back at d6 like I'd had it.

    Also added the greater version.
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    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    I'm disappointed, Sir Tuggyne. I fully intended for the streets of my urban campaign to be littered with history books afterwards! A tip of the hat to my excessive backstory-ing, perhaps.

    Glad to see you took the initiative. ^^
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    I think they're both reasonable, though Buried in History should really be Conjuration as well, as it's very similar to Hail of Stone improved in both capabilities and fluff.

    Lorewhelm seems appropriate, as it's basically an unelemental combo of Ice Storm with Cone of Cold's damage capabilities. What I would do is split the SR effect, make the initial impact and difficult terrain SR: No with the dazing effect SR: Yes. Speaking of, I'd perhaps make the spell a dual school with Enchantment, given the daze is not from the impact but from the deluge of information, which, in a nod to the Giant's offensive divination spells, could make this a Conjuration/Divination if you'd really want.
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    Yes, the 5th level is too high. Make it forth. They should both be conjuration, but I wouldn't say creation, because they eventually disappear(Do they disappear for the second?). Feel free to make it summoning. As for damage, its an area effect so that helps. Blasting spells are never really good, so don't worry about it.
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    Yes, the 5th level is too high. Make it forth. They should both be conjuration, but I wouldn't say creation, because they eventually disappear(Do they disappear for the second?). Feel free to make it summoning. As for damage, its an area effect so that helps. Blasting spells are never really good, so don't worry about it.
    Just because it's Conjuration(Creation) doesn't mean it's permanent, that's a function of the duration. If it was Duration: Instantaneous or Permanent, then they'd stick around, but this isn't. Look at Wall of Stone, Conjuration(Creation) with an Instantaneous duration.
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I think they're both reasonable, though Buried in History should really be Conjuration as well, as it's very similar to Hail of Stone improved in both capabilities and fluff.
    OK, I'll change that. Also, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Lorewhelm seems appropriate, as it's basically an unelemental combo of Ice Storm with Cone of Cold's damage capabilities. What I would do is split the SR effect, make the initial impact and difficult terrain SR: No with the dazing effect SR: Yes. Speaking of, I'd perhaps make the spell a dual school with Enchantment, given the daze is not from the impact but from the deluge of information, which, in a nod to the Giant's offensive divination spells, could make this a Conjuration/Divination if you'd really want.
    Hmm. Excellent point on SR; definitely changing that. I was visualizing the daze as coming partly from information overload, partly from simple visual over-stimulation (which is why in either case blind creatures are immune to it). And I really don't want to make this mind-affecting if I can help it. On the other hand, the name of the spell might imply that.... I guess I'll keep considering the school.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    Yes, the 5th level is too high. Make it forth. They should both be conjuration, but I wouldn't say creation, because they eventually disappear(Do they disappear for the second?). Feel free to make it summoning. As for damage, its an area effect so that helps. Blasting spells are never really good, so don't worry about it.
    They do disappear for both; the second merely keeps them around for the duration. (You'll note my DM's post above that was slightly disappointed in this fact. )

    You're probably right about the spell level, I tend to be kinda conservative about that I think.
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    The spells look like interesting spells by appearance, however your using the Conjuration Cheat to take over the world.

    Just look at your spell. It's better then all the core spells within a couple levels, including higher level spells. In fact, it's better then fireball/lighting bolt. So if this spell was available, no one would ever cast lightning bolt. After all this spell does the same amount of damage, ignores SR and has the daze effect.

    The conjuration effect is bad enough...sigh, why not just rewrite all the spells to be conjurations and ignore SR. But the added 'unschooled' and 'untyped' daze effect is over the top. You simply making a game breaking spell. When you say things like 'I want to do mind effecting things, but not have them be mind effecting, your breaking the game. And that's on top of the conjuration cheat.

    This spell would make a great divination attack spell, doing psychic damage with information overload.

    For my own game, I put all the 'attack spells' in Evocation and have Conjuration have all the 'non-attack spells'. Evocation can make matter(it says it can make something out of nothing in the PH/SRD) such as Ice Storm. So an evocation attack, with books created from nothing and normal SR, would work good for me. I'd even toss in the touch of making it a divine spell too.

    Now a conjuration spell could work (but still have SR:Yes) for a divine spell that 'borrowed' the books from a divine library. Or for a wizard version that borrowed them from the mage guild library or such.

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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    The spells look like interesting spells by appearance, however your using the Conjuration Cheat to take over the world.

    Just look at your spell. It's better then all the core spells within a couple levels, including higher level spells. In fact, it's better then fireball/lighting bolt. So if this spell was available, no one would ever cast lightning bolt. After all this spell does the same amount of damage, ignores SR and has the daze effect.

    The conjuration effect is bad enough...sigh, why not just rewrite all the spells to be conjurations and ignore SR. But the added 'unschooled' and 'untyped' daze effect is over the top. You simply making a game breaking spell. When you say things like 'I want to do mind effecting things, but not have them be mind effecting, your breaking the game. And that's on top of the conjuration cheat.

    This spell would make a great divination attack spell, doing psychic damage with information overload.

    For my own game, I put all the 'attack spells' in Evocation and have Conjuration have all the 'non-attack spells'. Evocation can make matter(it says it can make something out of nothing in the PH/SRD) such as Ice Storm. So an evocation attack, with books created from nothing and normal SR, would work good for me. I'd even toss in the touch of making it a divine spell too.

    Now a conjuration spell could work (but still have SR:Yes) for a divine spell that 'borrowed' the books from a divine library. Or for a wizard version that borrowed them from the mage guild library or such.
    How is Buried in History better than Fireball or Lightning Bolt? It hits one creature and requires you fail 2 saves before they can be dazed, one of which is Reflex, meaning it can be Evaded, which is a rather common ability.

    On the other hand, Lorewhelm should be better, it's a level higher than Fireball or Lightning Bolt. The Daze effect is affected by SR and I've already advocated making that portion also Enchantment or Divination, which would necessitate making it Mind Affecting. To make it really go, you have to concentrate to keep those in it dazed, which is normally a Standard action, unless you invest extra spells, feats or skill tricks into it. I don't see how these spells are gonna 'take over the world,' as you've put it.
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    The spells look like interesting spells by appearance, however your using the Conjuration Cheat to take over the world.
    I'm not familiar with this phrase, although I presume you're referring to the unfortunate tendency for Conjuration to suck up all the good spells.
    In this case, Buried in History was originally Evocation, but I felt it wasn't really justified there and moved it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    Just look at your spell. It's better then all the core spells within a couple levels, including higher level spells. In fact, it's better then fireball/lighting bolt. So if this spell was available, no one would ever cast lightning bolt. After all this spell does the same amount of damage, ignores SR and has the daze effect.
    I assume you're referring to Lorewhelm here, not Buried in History. It's not difficult to do better than fireball, even for blasting. Still, for a higher-level spell, it is not massively better IMHO. Compare to black tentacles, which is generally considered a very good 4th-level spell. They have a similar lockdown effect, although they tend to hit different weak points (Will save weak on mundanes, grapple check weak on casters) and black tentacles can theoretically do more total damage (up to (1d6+4) / level, no cap) and doesn't allow evasion. Each spell makes it difficult to move and near-impossible to charge, but lorewhelm requires the caster to trade their actions (as Cieyrin mentioned). Neither spell allows SR for the damage; lorewhelm allows it for the lockdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    The conjuration effect is bad enough...sigh, why not just rewrite all the spells to be conjurations and ignore SR. But the added 'unschooled' and 'untyped' daze effect is over the top. You simply making a game breaking spell. When you say things like 'I want to do mind effecting things, but not have them be mind effecting, your breaking the game. And that's on top of the conjuration cheat.
    Take order's wrath, a level 4 Law evocation. It does less damage to most creatures (same amount to chaotic outsiders) and allows SR; it has a non-mind-affecting daze effect on a failed will save. Lorewhelm certainly appears better here, but not, I think, unbearably so; the main difference is higher damage. (Pushing the spell level back up for sor/wiz could solve this problem; I'll keep considering it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    This spell would make a great divination attack spell, doing psychic damage with information overload.

    For my own game, I put all the 'attack spells' in Evocation and have Conjuration have all the 'non-attack spells'. Evocation can make matter(it says it can make something out of nothing in the PH/SRD) such as Ice Storm. So an evocation attack, with books created from nothing and normal SR, would work good for me. I'd even toss in the touch of making it a divine spell too.

    Now a conjuration spell could work (but still have SR:Yes) for a divine spell that 'borrowed' the books from a divine library. Or for a wizard version that borrowed them from the mage guild library or such.
    These are interesting suggestions, but don't really fit my conception for the spell. In particular, magical books that can be SR'ed away so they don't hit you seem a little ... odd. And I really don't want to make a spell that can ruin a nearby library or steal books for a short while; teleportation/calling/summoning isn't what I'm after here. Psychic damage in this case doesn't really seem to fit; information overload isn't that brutal. (Non-lethal perhaps, but who wants to burn a 4th-level slot for non-lethal damage?)
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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    As part of a recent discussion, I decided that since I support removing all free material components as a houserule, I should probably remove them from my homebrewed spells, too. (These used to require "a small mundane scroll or scrap of parchment containing an excerpt from a historical text", in case you're curious.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
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    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Buried in History [3.5 spell, PEACH]

    School focus! Also "enunciate" was stupid, so I made it "recite". Also fiddled with wording of Lorewhelm in various ways to make it easier to tell how long things last. Finally, save-or-daze every round in an area is ... prooooobably too strong for a 4th, even with concentration requirement, so I've gone and bumped that up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

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