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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Hey fellow playgrounders. Long time lurker, but new member.

    I am in the process of building an unseen seer and wondering what the best spells out there are. This character is a skill monkey/trapfinder. I have read several threads and know the best ones to play god, but what about his shifty eyed cousin?

    The build so far is a dark human rogue1/transmutation domain wiz5/unseen seer1. Dark template bought off and two flaws were taken. Feats are able learner, invisible spell, sculpt spel, dark stalker, practiced spellcaster, scribe scroll, craven, extend spell, and acidic splatter.

    Yes, I also know that spellthief is better than rogue in most peoples eyes, but I prefer rogue.

    Thanks in advance for the help guys.
    Last edited by Azoth; 2012-03-10 at 07:57 PM.


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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Hunter's Eye from PHB2 is normally a Ranger spell, but it's a Divination so you can pick it up with your class features going forward. It's a 2nd level swift action spell with 1 round duration, and gives you 1/3 CL in Sneak Attack dice. Not so great for the Ranger (who would cap out at +3d6 SA) but really great for you. Extend it for even more fun!
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    I am in the process of building an unseen seer and wondering what the best spells out there are. This character is a skill monkey/trapfinder. I have read several threads and know the best ones to play god, but what about his shifty eyed cousin?
    Interesting phrasing. There's a guide that addresses your question that uses that very title. I'm not its biggest fan, but it's there.

    On my Unseen Seers, I always take Hunter's Eye as soon as Persist Spell is available. Persisted and Familiar-shared Cloud of Knives + Hunter's Eye makes for quite a bit of free damage.

    Divine Insight makes for a hefty skill boost, Listening Lorecall adds some useful sensory abilities for a scout at a very low spell level cost and Choose Destiny is just amazing in the late game.
    The build so far is a dark human rogue1/transmutation domain wiz5/unseen seer1. Dark template bought off and two flaws were taken. Feats are able learner, invisible spell, sculpt spel, dark stalker, scribe scroll, craven, extend spell, and acidic splatter.
    Take Practiced Spellcaster if you can. The lost CL from Rogue and the divination ability hurt.
    Yes, I also know that spellthief is better than rogue in most peoples eyes, but I prefer rogue.
    Good call. Spellthief is much worse for this. (Fewer skill points, worse skills, still needs Practiced Spellcaster to keep its comparable, Master Spellthief is terrible at what it's supposed to do.)
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-03-10 at 07:59 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    I planned on grabbing Hunters eye with my first advanced learning. I suppose i should have put this in the opening post, but this character is trying to hide his spellcasting from the party and not rely on it heavily to survive. He will have maxed hide/move silently, spot/search/listen, disable device. He will also carry traditional tools and mundane/alchemical gear with him to get past most encounters.

    It has been my usual experience when playing that if you rely too heavily on magic you will find yourself in an AMF, magical deadzone, put through enough encounters you run out of juice, or fighting things your magic is useless on.


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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    I read that thread and didn't find it very useful. It is part of the reason I came here, and I hope the playground can be of more help.


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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Augery is a pretty good option, it's like Divination-lite.
    Gravestrike (SpC) is useful for getting SA on undead, if you don't use weapon crystals.
    Wieldskill (PGtF) gives you an additional +10 to a skill and stacks with Divine Insight.
    True Seeing: You can learn the Cleric version of this spell as a 5th level, rather than 6th.

    Trapsmith gives you Arcane Sight and Clairaudience/Clairvoyance as 1st level spells or Arcane Eye as a 2nd level spell.




    Something you also might like to take a look at is the Nonverbal Spell feat and the Sleight of Hand skill additions from Races of Stone (IIRC). Nonverbal spell lets you substitute any sound (talking, singing, babbling incoherently) for verbal components and the SoH skill addition lets you disguise somatic components as normal gestures. This could help you keep yoru casting hidden.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Quote Originally Posted by Elric VIII View Post
    Augery is a pretty good option, it's like Divination-lite.
    Gravestrike (SpC) is useful for getting SA on undead, if you don't use weapon crystals.
    Wieldskill (PGtF) gives you an additional +10 to a skill and stacks with Divine Insight.
    True Seeing: You can learn the Cleric version of this spell as a 5th level, rather than 6th.

    Trapsmith gives you Arcane Sight and Clairaudience/Clairvoyance as 1st level spells or Arcane Eye as a 2nd level spell.




    Something you also might like to take a look at is the Nonverbal Spell feat and the Sleight of Hand skill additions from Races of Stone (IIRC). Nonverbal spell lets you substitute any sound (talking, singing, babbling incoherently) for verbal components and the SoH skill addition lets you disguise somatic components as normal gestures. This could help you keep yoru casting hidden.
    The use of slight of hand to hide your spellcasting actually disguises both verbal and somatic components.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Quote Originally Posted by olentu View Post
    The use of slight of hand to hide your spellcasting actually disguises both verbal and somatic components.
    So, Sleight of... Tongue?

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    I think that check add on has made slight of hand a semi decent skill to put ranks in. Not enough to max it, but a few ranks. It will also pair well with invisible spell. If the party doesn't know i am casting or see the results it is effective. Thanks for the tip.


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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Have you taken the spontaneous divination ACF from complete champion? If not then do so immediately. You will never have to prepare a divination spell again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    A guy going by a forum moniker starting with "Darth" asks what amounts to...

    "Perhaps you feel you're being treated unfairly?

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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    I'm going to give you some advice that has absolutely nothing to do with what you asked but I can assure you it will help you.

    Roleplay.

    A talented roleplayer can cause the extinction of two races without even rolling a dice, especially since you're a rogue. Imagine convincing two races to fight each other just so you can steal from a dragons hoard while he's distracted by the fighting.

    Of course spells such as ones that increase bluff, diplomacy and ones that charm/dominate enemies are also useful for this purpose. So I'd suggest those.
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Ah, my favorite prestige class :)

    let's see if I find some pearls in my spell list:

    sniper's shot [spc 194]: let's you sneak attack outside of 30 ft.
    bands of steel [spc 24]: one of the few save or suck that are with a Reflex save.
    Combat Readiness [DotU 61]: Combined with nerveskitter, your initiative will be almost unbeatable.
    Eyes of the Oracle [DrM 66]: Weird spell, read for yourself.
    Guided Shot [SpC 108]: Let's you ignore AC bonus from concealment and cover
    Instant Locksmith/Search [SpC]: Absolutely nice to have. Especially with spontaneus divination!
    Spell theft [CS 104]: That spell is like dispel magic on steroids.
    Control Darkness and Shadow [CoR 26]: Nice to have spell, if you are hiding in the shadows a lot.
    Instant Diversion [RotD 113]: nice little spell to get away.
    Nightmare Terrain [CM 111]: Look that one up.
    Whispercast [LoM 129]: This one is tricky to find: Allows you -as a swift action- to ignore somatic or material components. Absolutely useful in a grapple or similar cases.
    Cloud of knives [PH2 107]: You are surrounded by flying daggers, which you can shoot at enemies as a free action.

    These are some spells you may not have heard of. I won't write down all the usual suspects (like orbs for sneak attacks).

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth_Versity View Post
    Have you taken the spontaneous divination ACF from complete champion? If not then do so immediately. You will never have to prepare a divination spell again.
    Funny enough, that's a great Feat for a wizard specializing in anything except divination magic :)

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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    Funny enough, that's a great Feat for a wizard specializing in anything except divination magic :)
    It's gotten an errata to only be usable with Divination spells that you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Wavelab, sorry to say this character is not a face nor do I have the intention to make him one. He is in concept a master thief. His magical prowess is used for getting into and out of places others can't. I planned on dropping invisible sculpted grease, using the caltrop cantrip, wall of smoke, blur, mirror image, and if necessary fly for defenses. Baleful teleportation and dimension door to move around a battlefield if my 50' land speed and maxed tumble weren't enough. Using lesser orb of force to deal with incoreal (in a wand of course) using a melf's acid arrow to fuel acidic splatter. Invisible cloud of knives for free action sneak attack and melf's unicorn horn to knockback people that get too close. Carrying a few scrolls of reduce person for tight fits. Also packing ray of enfeeblement and ray of stupidity as single target debuffs, doubling up with karmic aura and karmic backlash.

    Debating between bands of steel or the grasping wall spell. The wall can snag multiple foes and doesn't have a size restriction, but the bands don't require a wall.

    Also planning on packing dust eggshell grenades, frost powder, razor ice powder, jungle razor, stone breaker acid, torch bug paste, flour pouches, marbles, tanglefoot bags, alchemist fire, shrieking flasks...pretty much any alchemical/mundane item i can to make people have a bad day without shelling out my prepaired spells like a vending machine.

    I would have to shift feats around for spontaneous divination...maybe lose craven and shift extend spell to make it fit.


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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    *bump* c'mon guys any other good spells?


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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    *bump* c'mon guys any other good spells?
    dobu already mentioned most of the good ones.

    Hunter's Eye (PHBII, Rgr 2) is pretty much a lock for your first Advanced Learning.

    Guidance of the Avatar (online, Clr 2) is another must-have for diviners. Never fail a UMD check again. Also potion-able.

    Master's Touch (SC, Sor/Wiz 1) is a good way to skip taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

    Vision of Punishment (Champions of Valor, Sanct 1) you should already know just by being a prepared caster. It costs 1d2 points of Str damage to cast and is [mind-affecting], but a failed save nauseates the target, and a successful save sickens. As far as 1st-level debuffs go, there are better spells, but this is pretty impressive for a divination spell.

    Ferocity of Sanguine Rage (Dragon Magic, Sor/Wiz 3) is true strike on steroids.

    Revelation (Dragons of Faerun, Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4) might be worth it if you can pinch it off the cleric list as a 3rd level spell. Essentially true seeing for 1 round as a 20' burst.

    Other than that... can you be more specific about what you want to focus on? Blasting, battlefield control, social engineering, buffing, etc.?

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for an Unseen Seer

    I am not planning on being wholelly dedicated to one thing or another as far as combat scenarios are concerned. I will not be the primary caster for the group either (thankfully). I am mainly wondering what the best spells are to help me do my job as a skillmonkey/rogue. I have always seen rogues as the tactical nuke in the party. You pick the biggest threat you stand a chance to take down and then you ruin their day in the fastest and most painful way possible. Since I am not wholely optimized as far as skills go I need to be as good as i can with my spell selections. I am sacrificing skill ranks to slight of hand so I can effectively hide my casting from the party and am buying mundane trinkets to use as the excuses for my flight, mirror images and other spells i can't prep using invisible spell.


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