Naruto IV: Tobi or not Tobi, that is the question

[Silva Stormrage]

if Tobi's days are numbed and Kabuto is fighting a team with Itachi on it.(nothing else needs to be said about that.)....and I can't think of anybody other then Madara or possibly Sasuke that could fill the Big Bad void if both Tobi and Kabuto are defeated this Arc.

Though Kabuto is ALSO fighting a team with Sauske on it. While I doubt Sauske will die/be defeated by anyone beside Naruto (Regardless if Naruto is actually able to kill Sauske or not). Kabuto has already shown that he will target Sauske before Itachi. A situation where Itachi sacrifices himself for Sauske would not be too unrealistic. Though I would say Sauske would be royally screwed after that.

[Giegue]

True, but Kabuto won't win this fight simply because of how important Naruto vs. Sasuke is to the manga. Having Sasuke possessed by Kabuto vs. Naruto would just not work since Naruto vs. Sasuke himself, not somebody else using his body, has been such a built up fight that Sasuke(and to an extent Naruto, though he could still lose the fox possibly if Tobi pulls something out his butt(though that is not likely)) has a nigh' invulnerable plot shield to protect him from basically anything. Also, Itachi, along with Minato, is one of the two biggest Mary Sue's in the manga...so I doubt he'll sacrifice himself, though it would be IC. He will "die" when Edo is canceled, as Edo Tensei WILL be cancled unless Kishi intends to make Madara the new Big Bad since Madara is SO powerful that pretty much nobody can stop him at this point sans maybe current Naruto...leaving Madara alive would just totally warp the story and demand that somebody deal with Madara.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

New Chapter.

Spoiler

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Not much going on (Sasuke's motive for attacking Leaf was pretty obvious), except for the revelation of yet another hax eye jutsu. Hopefully we'll see it in the next chapter.

Itachi seems pretty indifferent towards Sasuke's aim of destroying Leaf though. Maybe being dead does that to you.

[Traab]

Whats the new hax jutsu this time? No wait, let me guess, after all, it can only be one of two things. Either its the perfect counter to whatever new skill set kabuto has come up with, or its yet another ultimate attack that does something different from the other ultimate attacks they already have stacked up like cord wood. I will further guess that it is some sort of combined, "requires at least 4 mangekyo to activate" technique, meant to show the true ultimate power of the uchiha comes from working together. Teamwork is the magic word in this series after all.

[Socratov]

well, seeing izanami and izanagi are a pair of gods associated with the creation of japan and destiny the effects should be similarly themed. Izanagi is a technigue which let's you alter destiny (like the final say the man had in earlier times as a result of a patriarchical society).

However, (especially) in ancient times the woman was associated with creation (of life etc.). so where Izanagi changes destiny, (as Itachi said) Izanami should straight create it. To clarify, it should be something like a dominate effect over the universe altering the future (effectively creating destiny instead of altering it).

[TheFallenOne]

I agree. Izanagi altered a past event. Izanami will force a future event to happen.

Now, the eye sacrifice thing... Izanagi made the eye used close forever. See the problem yet?
Sasuke has Itachi's eyes. If Edotachi uses Izanami it may affect Sasuke as well.

[Traab]

If izanami creates life, then maybe itachi will come back from the dead for real? Even if he comes back blind he would still be fairly badass. And too be honest, considering his whole backstory and all, he got a pretty damn raw deal out of life and deserves a reward like that.

[Madara]

Interesting theory, but it probably won't happen. Cause then Sasuke would be much weaker without his Eye Hax.

But, I'll take Itachi having a cool new move over sasuke any day.


Is it just me or is Sasuke dead weight in this fight so far?

[Fredaintdead]

Is it just me or is Sasuke dead weight in this fight so far?

Yep, and it's glorious.

[Traab]

Meh, sasuke is frequently disappointing in his battles. The biggest example, though there are others, would have to be the sasuke versus itachi fight. I may be wrong, correct me if I am, but wasnt itachi half blind, dying of an illness, and wanting sasuke to kill him? AND SASUKE STILL LOST?! Itachi died on his freaking feet while sasuke was a quivering ball of terror barely able to move.

Or take the first VotE fight between him and naruto, iirc, naruto had an edge over sasuke at the start. It wasnt until sasuke started tapping into the curse seal that things escalated. But base skill versus base skill, sasuke, the rookie of the year, was losing to the dead last. A guy who had been fighting, chasing, and tracking down sasuke for hours while he got a nice easy lift and a power boost in a barrel.

[Kato]

Now, the eye sacrifice thing... Izanagi made the eye used close forever. See the problem yet?
Sasuke has Itachi's eyes. If Edotachi uses Izanami it may affect Sasuke as well.

Don't think that will happen... As in: Don't think what happens to the zombie eyes affect the new user, otherwise I don't think Tobi would have dared using Nagato if he could have lost his Rinnegans. Also, it would be dumb.

Meh, sasuke is frequently disappointing in his battles. The biggest example, though there are others, would have to be the sasuke versus itachi fight. I may be wrong, correct me if I am, but wasnt itachi half blind, dying of an illness, and wanting sasuke to kill him? AND SASUKE STILL LOST?! Itachi died on his freaking feet while sasuke was a quivering ball of terror barely able to move.

I can't belive I'm defending Sasuke but he didn't have mangekyous then and this means no Amaterasu, no Susanoo, just pure basic skill. It's no shame to lose this fight.

Or take the first VotE fight between him and naruto, iirc, naruto had an edge over sasuke at the start. It wasnt until sasuke started tapping into the curse seal that things escalated. But base skill versus base skill, sasuke, the rookie of the year, was losing to the dead last. A guy who had been fighting, chasing, and tracking down sasuke for hours while he got a nice easy lift and a power boost in a barrel.

IIRC, Sasuke dominated the battle until Naruto tapped into the demon fox chakra. He had a hole in his chest. Then Naruto was equal even to powered up Sasuke but base skills he lost.


I like how Kabuto is pulling the strings or at least trying to but apparently he is fighting a lost cause against Sasuke's love.
Concerning Izanami... (I shouldn't have seen Brave 10 last season) didn't Izanagi have a more general meaning? *googles* Hm, apparently there is not much to be found easily. But yeah, Izanami might create.. stuff. Didn't Tobi mention it as well recently? When the sage created the tailed beasts or something?

[darksolitaire]

So, Uchihas have another overpowered eye genjutsu called Tsukuyomi Kotoamatsukami Izanagi Izanami? Sorry, but this just seems silly.

[Madara]

I find it fitting. Things in Narutothe Uchiha clan come in pairs:
Madara and his brother
Two techniques unlocked from mangekyo sharingan, Super armor and fire-eyes (No I did not forget about the nightmare realm. But seriously, the sharingan stopped being about Gengutsu a long time ago)

Plus there's Yin and Yang Chakra


I don't feel like this new technique is too much of a stretch. Plus, I enjoy Itachi. Ironic how the mighty eternal sharingan doesn't match up to Itachi's normal

[Giegue]

Actually, we don't know how powerful the eternal is in the hands of a MASTER. Sasuke just unlocked the darn thing. He's hardly versed in it's capabilities and powers. Madara, however, has mastered it and was considered godly powerful because of it, yet in his current fight he has yet to show it's true potential and has been using his mokuton almost exclusively, probably because he did not get to test it out in life and is thoroughly enjoying getting to crush his enemies with the techniques his old rival Hashirama got to use on him. If Madara got serious in his fight, we would probably see just how frightening the EMS can be, but since Madara's sadly going to bite it after this Itachi and Sauce vs. Kabuto fight, we probably will never get to see the EMS in the hands of a master since we all know Sasuke has to get a powerup beyond EMS to even stand up to Super Kyuubi Naruto.

[MammonAzrael]

I just moved a set up my computer again. I went to check the newest chapter and the images aren't appearing. Anyone have an idea why or a suggestion?

[Drolyt]

I just moved a set up my computer again.

Sorry, I have no idea what this means?

I went to check the newest chapter and the images aren't appearing. Anyone have an idea why or a suggestion?

No clue, but they aren't appearing for me either. Google for a different site. At least for me they work on every single other site but that one. If that doesn't help I'll need some more information. What operating system are you using, what browser, and what all doesn't work?

[Sotharsyl]

So, Uchihas have another overpowered eye genjutsu called Tsukuyomi Kotoamatsukami Izanagi Izanami? Sorry, but this just seems silly.

It"s just Japanese Mithology there"s a lot of gods ergo there will be lots of cool concepts for jutsus.

Let"s say you're a greek comic book writter and you're writing this comic book where one of your characters uses spells and he has 3 top spells caled Zeus,Hades and Neptune can you immagine how hard it would be for yourself to stop afterwards from sneaking ina spell referencing Hera, then Persephone then Demeter then Apolo and of course Ares vs Athena etc.

But moving on, this chapter Two Uchihas walk into a bar...

Also classic Sasuke probably the first time he"s in a bar and he wanted to start a bar fight

[Giegue]

Hey, we don't 100% know that Tobi's an Uchiha. For all we know he could be a Zetsu clone or an Uzumaki....or some weird incarnation of the Jubi. However, the most likely candidates as of now are probably Obito or Izuna, so chances are high he is an Uchiha under that mask.

[Madara]

Hey, we don't 100% know that Tobi's an Uchiha. For all we know he could be a Zetsu clone or an Uzumaki....or some weird incarnation of the Jubi. However, the most likely candidates as of now are probably Obito or Izuna, so chances are high he is an Uchiha under that mask.

.....Not Obito....

But seriously, Itachi said that 'madara'(Our tobi) was a uchiha, so I'm gonna stick to him being an Uchiha. The other options are possible, but I'm gonna say he's definitely an Uchiha. He knows too much about the Sharingan, and Izangi is a secret technique that I doubt outsiders would know about.

[Socratov]

well, to be honest, it is said that only a part of the kyuubi's chakra was transferred into naruto, nothing was said aobu the rest so that could still roam free somehwere and maybe take form of madara since he last controlledinteracted with it (excluding minato ofcourse :D) it could hypothetically absorbed wome of madara's knowledge and after he died his eyes and started on his own, bound on a revenge for mankind after how mankind treated him. It would explain why the Kyuubi wasn't his usual self when Naruto fought him...

[Soras Teva Gee]

Hey, we don't 100% know that Tobi's an Uchiha. For all we know he could be a Zetsu clone or an Uzumaki....or some weird incarnation of the Jubi. However, the most likely candidates as of now are probably Obito or Izuna, so chances are high he is an Uchiha under that mask.

Does Obito even work on a timeline? Mind you the manga doesn't keep good track of these things but do we know how separated Kakashi Gaiden was from Naruto's birth?

I've always thought that Tobi's identity isn't a "solvable" mystery myself (this was before and then after "Madara" which screamed arse pull) and that the most likely path has been he's exactly what he's no said... he's nobody. Obviously he was born someone, but its not significant who he is and everything he has is essentially stolen.

Look how early the concept of body looting was introduced and how much its been used, I don't think there is any need for Tobi to be an Uchiha or anyone siginificant. Which may be the point, he's the antithesis of all these Sage of the Six Paths descendants by being absolutely insignificant.

[Xondoure]

well, to be honest, it is said that only a part of the kyuubi's chakra was transferred into naruto, nothing was said aobu the rest so that could still roam free somehwere and maybe take form of madara since he last controlledinteracted with it (excluding minato ofcourse :D) it could hypothetically absorbed wome of madara's knowledge and after he died his eyes and started on his own, bound on a revenge for mankind after how mankind treated him. It would explain why the Kyuubi wasn't his usual self when Naruto fought him...

The rest of the Kyubii's chakra was explicitly sealed away permanently in the belly of the death god technique that killed Minato, the Third, and Orochimaru's arms.

[Socratov]

thanx for reminding, i forgot about that...

anyway, i hope they demasl him soon... im getting tired of all the intrigue

[Giegue]

Well, Tobi being a new character under the mask would be anti-climatic, to say the least. To keep him hidden for so long only for his face to be totally new would just be very.....well...anti-climatic. Thats not to say such a thing won't happen as Kishi has done some very anti-climatic things in the past but needless to say with Tobi's identity being something so centeral to the manga he should at the very least be somebody we've heard of before in some way.

The most likely candidates that I have heard are Izuna, Obito and Fugaku(Sasuke's dad), though I've also seen Kagami Uchiha, who was basically just a VERY minor character that was a student of Tobirama mentioned as a possibility. Less mainstream ones I have seen that are still interesting are the Uzumaki clan leader/an Uzumaki, A Zetsu clone of Madara or the Jubi itself in some shape or form. Either way, it's very difficult to pick any one and say that Tobi is X person and we won't know for sure until the mask comes off, but I hope it's at least somebody we have seen or at the least heard about.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I think the reason people's usual sites aren't working is because a push from Jump for scanlators to take down licensed work. Yeah.

[Kato]

.....Not Obito....

Oh come on, what with the Obito hate?

Does Obito even work on a timeline? Mind you the manga doesn't keep good track of these things but do we know how separated Kakashi Gaiden was from Naruto's birth?

Well, for a long time people were questioning this but since in the anime Kakashi and Guy were shown to be grown up during the Naruto's birth Flashback (or grown up enough) it is possible timeline wise.

I won't be angry or disappointed if it's not Obito, and I won't they there are many proves towards it but unless something new happens I will keep him as my number one guess

Well, Tobi being a new character under the mask would be anti-climatic, to say the least. To keep him hidden for so long only for his face to be totally new would just be very.....well...anti-climatic. Thats not to say such a thing won't happen as Kishi has done some very anti-climatic things in the past but needless to say with Tobi's identity being something so centeral to the manga he should at the very least be somebody we've heard of before in some way.

When was Naruto ever anti-climatic? I won't ignore the possibility of Tobi being nobody but I think it is very unlikely.

[Madara]

I don't hate Obito, I just don't believe that there's enough any evidence for him being Tobi. The best I've heard is "His teleport is similar to Kakashi's Kamui." Which makes me point out that multiple uchiha could have similar mangekyo sharingan techniques. And there is one panel where Kakashi makes it seem like he know Tobi.

In the end, I think we shouldn't bother trying to figure out who Tobi is, because it doesn't look like we'll get an answer soon.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Oh come on, what with the Obito hate?

We'd like at least one Uchiha to not be a total overpowered ****-wad? Oddly wanting him dead is akin to love and respect here.

Also it began with a play on spelling and a lot of hurr hurr hurr laughing well before Tobi was revealed as the mastmind.

Well, for a long time people were questioning this but since in the anime Kakashi and Guy were shown to be grown up during the Naruto's birth Flashback (or grown up enough) it is possible timeline wise.

Found it the shot and it's canon, Chapter 503. Now looking at it... while possibly older Kakashi is still definitely a teenager not an adult. He's maybe a little older looking in the anime shot plus it adds a vest but I see no real difference in the manga shot to his age in Kakashi Gaiden. Not the best guide for sure but there it is

Which matches with the Third Shinobi World War proceeding the Kyuubi attack closely. And would require a lot of powering up for (presumably) having no teachers.

Also worth mentioning the problems with this can easily be lies but this would make Nagato considerably older then Obito because he was orphaned and with Jiraiya contemporary to the Second Shinobi World War and grown/crippled contemporary to the Third. Easy to have Tobi spew another complete lie but his claim to have given Nagato the Rinnegan, I have to think there was at least something more to that then coming on the scene years later.

[Madara]

We're starting to have a lot of questions that need answers, and we are being taunted. "Who am I, I am no one."

On the bright side, the questions keep me interested.

[nazgulnine]

We're starting to have a lot of questions that need answers, and we are being taunted. "Who am I, I am no one."

On the bright side, the questions keep me interested.

There're a couple of things I like about new Naruto chapters. One of them is contemplating on who or what the hell Tobi is supposed to be. I honestly couldn't give a rat's ass about the answer, but the questioning is fun. Looking back at previous chapters, checking consistencies, all that jazz. I like the idea of Obito solely because it makes Kakashi, a minor character who was originally hyped up as a super-powerful character, much more relevant.

Another thing I like: Kabuto's echoing of one of the series' former major villains. I'm nostalgia'ing hard, because reading this years ago I thought to myself, "how horribly creepy, yet interesting this guy is!"
Some of my favorite quirks about Orochimaru... The man shouted at his dying enemy: "MY ARMS!!! GIVE ME BACK MY ARMS!!! AND THEN DIE!!"
Also.... he had four of his elite-mooks bring Sasuke to him in a wooden barrel. A wooden barrel. And to top it off, they tell him it'll give him tremendous power. Man... Sasuke wasn't even the least bit suspicious. He just shrugs a little "you guys seem legit" and gets in the bucket.