Page 1 of 10 12345678910 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 288
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XXX. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59PM GMT on Saturday, March 31st, 2012 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Amphetryon. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 11:59PM GMT on Saturday, April 14th, 2012 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. If you do not have access to the current challenge's Secret Ingredient, please do not volunteer to judge this round.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]Class[/b]|[b]Base Attack Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[b]Skills[/b]|[b]Feats[/b]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat of ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    This week's special ingredient is:
    Races of Destiny's Shadow Sentinel!
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

    Allez optimiser!

    Contestants

    Judges

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    FAQ:
    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. Similarly, materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.



    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What the heck do the rules on Umbral Blade mean for this PrC? Umbral Blade cares about adding special properties or powers to it, not about what special properties or powers are already extant on the weapon. The text about "in the hands of anyone not trained in its use" should be read as assuming a blade was not otherwise magical, which is not necessarily the case. Note that delaying entry in order to acquire sufficient WBL for a more enchanted blade before entering Shadow Sentinel is quite likely to get an Elegance hit, as is using various shenanigans to justify swapping out your Umbral Blade whenever it may be convenient to do so (as, for example, in Darrin's post). Note, also, that there is nothing in the text for Shadow Sentinel allowing it to bypass normal enhancement bonus caps, so you cannot, for example, use Shadow Sentinel to get a +7 long sword.

    Casting a spell, manifesting a psionic power, dousing poison, etc. on your Umbral Blade is not "adding special powers or properties to your Umbral Blade" by what I would consider a reasonable reading of the text, though using shenanigans to have those effects last hours and hours could get you thwapped with an Elegance penalty ("your unmodified caster/manifester level" is not shenanigans). Using weapon crystals or attempting to have it actually, (further) permanently enchanted or permanently alchemically treated once it becomes your Umbral Blade is "adding special powers or properties to your Umbral Blade", and is therefore specifically proscribed by the text of the PrC.

    If someone can point to a RAW reason why the above interpretation of Umbral Blade is wrong, please do so.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2012-03-21 at 10:02 AM.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Nice i like this one. And I got a fun build already xD

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Huh. I've never even heard of this class before. It looks pretty good though and I have a fun concept in mind. i'll throw my chips in as a chef and see if I can get a streak going.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kuulvheysoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Huh. I've never even heard of this class before. It looks pretty good though and I have a fun concept in mind. i'll throw my chips in as a chef and see if I can get a streak going.
    Seconded. I'll have to take a look at the class and see if I can make anything of it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    I will be participating in this.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Interesting; a secret ingredient that isn't particularly bad or tough to get into, but one that is at once unique and overlooked. Nice pick, Chairman! I will refrain from opening my trap about competing or judging prematurely, but I am very interested in this round.

    Interested in a PvP arena? Check out The Crowd Calls for Blood!
    This is what happens when they let me DM: Beyond the Horizon!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Shadow's begone this one shall purify you. I'll try to cook something this weekend.

    Good luck everyone.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    I may try participating in this contest. I do have one question about the ruling of Shadow Points. The entry explicitly states that spending Shadow Points is a Swift Action, how does this work in conjunction with abilities like Shadow Drain, which is activated after striking an enemy? As far as I know, swift actions cannot interrupt full attack routines.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    For any who saw and have yet to grok my cryptic comment about "another PrC from Book of Exalted Deeds", I was seriously considering Anointed Knight before I realized I wanted to also use this PrC at a later date.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Suburban Dystopia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Nice ingredient choice, Mr Chairman. However, the relative lack of judges pains me even more than the special ingredient entices me. I shall judge this time around.

    JUDGING CRITERIA

    Spoiler
    Show
    Originality - Surprise me. I want to see something out of the ordinary, be it Race, Template, Class, PrC, feat combo, or backstory. If there's a simple and straightforward way to get a prerequisite or ability, find some other way. If there isn't another way to get it, then give it a unique spin or synergy. (Please note that Originality is relative. It may very well be original to use a specific race, unless multiple builds in the contest also used the same thing... which will tend to lower the score for all of them.) Penalties for 1-2 level dips in base classes will be placed in this category.

    Power - What kind of power and versatility is this build capable of cranking out? My criteria are based on the high side of a moderate power level, something any experienced DM could handle in their game. (See my past entries if you want examples.) If you exceed that power level, you get more points. Fail to exceed it, you get less. But if you exceed it TOO FAR, to the point that this build needs no other party members or renders other party members useless by comparison... well you won't lose points, but you won't get too many bonus ones either. (More power than a DM can handle is actually a BAD thing, IMO.)

    Elegance - The classic hero in comic and myth is a capable fellow, does one thing amazingly well, and has one or more glaring weaknesses, so bonuses for that sort of thing. Other bonuses include (but are not limited to) single classing or simple combinations rather than complicated ones, hooking multiple mechanics together in one package (like Wisdom-to-AC and Zen Archery), and anything that strikes me as just plain old cool. Penalties in this category include (but are not limited to) cheesy combinations, iffy or incorrect rules interpretations, and tricks which make little sense and add nothing to the build. An illegal build will typically be flatlined with a 1.0 in this category. (Please note that elegance may come into direct conflict with power and/or originality, and it may not be possible for your concept to get high scores in all three. You live with these choices as tradeoffs.)

    Use of Secret Ingredient - This one should be pretty obvious, so I'll list out a few specific things to keep in mind. What does it do for you that you couldn't have done better by avoiding it? Did you use all 10 PrC levels? Did you get into the PrC so late that it's abilities were nearly obsolete when you gained them? Did you synergize or supercharge those abilities? Did you increase, maximize, or ignore the Special Ingredient's required skills? (No skill requirements this time around, does not apply.)

    Scoring - Since we're going on a scale of 1-5 here, I'll be using 3.0 for each category as the default score. To that I'll add by the quarter point for good stuff and subtract by the quarter point for bad stuff. A dead average build should be around a 12 and the builds that go under 9 or over 15 should be rare. Y'know... in theory.
    Last edited by gbprime; 2012-03-21 at 11:28 AM.
    .
    Ding, You've Got Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Hey, Races of Destiny, a book we haven't run an ingredient from before, and a PrC I've always wanted to try out. Maybe I'll manage an entry this time around, but that's what I said about Animal Lord (Darfellan Sharklord :/) and Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (Druid with small army of hippos via Animal Control and Blessed of Tem-Et-Nu + Bone Talisman, including a Horrid Hippo Wild Cohort). Guess we'll see...

    Also good to see an FAQ post, we so desperately needed one. Hopefully that'll nip that particular problem at the bud.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2012-03-20 at 02:01 PM.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kuulvheysoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Alright, so a basic melee class. Looks to be focused on their weapon... Chairman, did you give us a wanna-be soulknife?

    Easy requirements, though every entry is going to have to be Illumian.

    The PrC class skills list... she burns. WHY is it so terrible?

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    I have received a couple of PMs already. I'm clarifying one point on the PrC:

    Having read over the class several times now, I find nowhere that it is indicated that you are automatically proficient with your umbral blade (although you do get to choose its base form. If someone can cite a passage to the contrary, that would alleviate the apparent concerns in the PMs considerably.) The verbiage I do find is that "in the hands of anyone not trained in its use, an umbral blade is merely a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus". This combines to indicate, so far as I can tell, that while you could theoretically use the PrC to end up with an umbral blade in a form you're not proficient with, doing so would automatically mean you're non-proficiently wielding a mere +1 version of whatever weapon shape the umbral blade is in.

    Again, if someone could cite rules as to why this is/is not the right reading, that would be lovely.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2012-03-20 at 02:18 PM.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Suburban Dystopia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Having read over the class several times now, I find nowhere that it is indicated that you are automatically proficient with your umbral blade
    I concur. Shouldn't be an issue. Like any other weapon, you don't automatically have proficiency with it. You get to choose the form of the weapon when you take the class, so choose one you do have proficiency with and go from there.
    .
    Ding, You've Got Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I have received a couple of PMs already. I'm clarifying one point on the PrC:

    Having read over the class several times now, I find nowhere that it is indicated that you are automatically proficient with your umbral blade (although you do get to choose its base form. If someone can cite a passage to the contrary, that would alleviate the apparent concerns in the PMs considerably.) The verbiage I do find is that "in the hands of anyone not trained in its use, an umbral blade is merely a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus". This combines to indicate, so far as I can tell, that while you could theoretically use the PrC to end up with an umbral blade in a form you're not proficient with, doing so would automatically mean you're non-proficiently wielding a mere +1 version of whatever weapon shape the umbral blade is in.

    Again, if someone could cite rules as to why this is/is not the right reading, that would be lovely.
    That seems a correct reading of the class.

    There is a REALLY OBVIOUS way around that problem, but I don't think that saying it in public couldn't be considered speculation. Might I PM it to the Chairman?

    EDIT: Argh I hate errrors, I got a quadrupled message and errors on my deleting errors ****.
    Last edited by Aeryr; 2012-03-20 at 03:05 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Suburban Dystopia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    A quadruple post? Man, I can't wait til Rich spends some of his kickstarter scratch on a better server...
    .
    Ding, You've Got Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I have received a couple of PMs already. I'm clarifying one point on the PrC:

    Having read over the class several times now, I find nowhere that it is indicated that you are automatically proficient with your umbral blade (although you do get to choose its base form. If someone can cite a passage to the contrary, that would alleviate the apparent concerns in the PMs considerably.) The verbiage I do find is that "in the hands of anyone not trained in its use, an umbral blade is merely a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus". This combines to indicate, so far as I can tell, that while you could theoretically use the PrC to end up with an umbral blade in a form you're not proficient with, doing so would automatically mean you're non-proficiently wielding a mere +1 version of whatever weapon shape the umbral blade is in.

    Again, if someone could cite rules as to why this is/is not the right reading, that would be lovely.
    "In the hands of anyone not trained in its use," at least to my eyes, indicates whether you have the Umbral Blade feature or not, not whether you have proficiency with said weapon type. When you choose its form, the form indicates proficiency or nonproficiency. So if a Human Fighter picked up a Shadow Sentinal's Umbral Blade, which has the shape of greatsword, she could wield it as a +1 greatsword, she wouldn't get the extra bonus if that Shadow Sentinal was 4th level or higher in the PrC or any other features that are currently acting on it from SS features.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by gbprime View Post
    A quadruple post? Man, I can't wait til Rich spends some of his kickstarter scratch on a better server...
    Yea, verily, what a frabjous day that shall be.

    "In the hands of anyone not trained in its use," at least to my eyes, indicates whether you have the Umbral Blade feature or not, not whether you have proficiency with said weapon type. When you choose its form, the form indicates proficiency or nonproficiency. So if a Human Fighter picked up a Shadow Sentinal's Umbral Blade, which has the shape of greatsword, she could wield it as a +1 greatsword, she wouldn't get the extra bonus if that Shadow Sentinal was 4th level or higher in the PrC or any other features that are currently acting on it from SS features.
    I read "In the hands of anyone not trained in its use" to be inclusive of both Umbral Blade and weapon type, from context given. The question was (paraphrased as) "So what happens when an Umbral Blade is shaped into a whip by a Shadow Sentinel who isn't proficient with whip?" So far as I can tell, it would be treated as a +1 whip with which the Shadow Sentinel is not proficient, aka the most amazing tactical weapon since the toffee spear.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I read "In the hands of anyone not trained in its use" to be inclusive of both Umbral Blade and weapon type, from context given. The question was (paraphrased as) "So what happens when an Umbral Blade is shaped into a whip by a Shadow Sentinel who isn't proficient with whip?" So far as I can tell, it would be treated as a +1 whip with which the Shadow Sentinel is not proficient, aka the most amazing tactical weapon since the toffee spear.
    So we're saying a Shadow Sentinal can't use their Umbral Blade's full powers if its in a form that they aren't proficient with? That seems...odd to me, honestly, unless I'm missing something and answering that would probably be speculation, so I guess I'll just be confused by that point while I try to think of something neat to do with this.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    My biggest concern (I hope is general enough for everyone) is... what happens with double weapons?

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kuulvheysoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeryr View Post
    My biggest concern (I hope is general enough for everyone) is... what happens with double weapons?
    I asked the Chairperson myself and he responded with a reply that basically boils down to "If it doesn't explicitly state that it only affects one side of a double sided weapon (like Kensai does) then it affects both sides of the weapon".

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Dumbledore lives's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Redmond, Washington
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Well it's certainly more usable than the last SI, I'll see if I can make something unique.
    Avatar by Diabhan
    Shapperdash, movie reviews amongst other things.
    Natural 1, a tale of critical failures
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    If you're ever in a situation where you can't survive, go for the broke and fill all of creation with chickens. Just imagine the reaction of people halfway around the world when every square inch of space in their world is suddenly and completely full of chickens.
    Homebrew
    1st in Iron Chef XXXIV with a Warforged bard

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Fearan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    GMT +2
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    *You can't add other properties or powers to your Umbral blade*
    Crraptastic. That's the biggest hit to the class. Well, my initial idea went null.
    ***My place is at the brink of a war. Posting can be erratic, sorry***

    English isn't my native. Sorry for all misunderstandings.
    Warning: This user is a powerplayer and a TYPE-Lunatic

    Familiar summons YOU avatar by happyturtle

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    OK, I'm running a bit of a fever and I'm woozy from various meds, so maybe I'm just being delusional, but I think I have a pretty cool build worked out already. I'll write it down and see if it makes sense when I'm less addled, but I'm feeling pretty decent about it thus far...
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearan View Post
    *You can't add other properties or powers to your Umbral blade*
    Crraptastic. That's the biggest hit to the class. Well, my initial idea went null.
    The way I interpret that is you can't use your Umbral Blade class featureto give your weapon an additional property. For example, at level 4 when your Umbral Blade is +2, you can't opt to make it a +1 Keen blade, which equals a +2 enhancement bonus. It just seems like poor wording.

    Can we get a clarification from the Chairman on this?

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by spelacnar View Post
    The way I interpret that is you can't use your Umbral Blade class featureto give your weapon an additional property. For example, at level 4 when your Umbral Blade is +2, you can't opt to make it a +1 Keen blade, which equals a +2 enhancement bonus. It just seems like poor wording.

    Can we get a clarification from the Chairman on this?
    I read it as no other enchantments, including weapon crystals, dipping a (non-kaorti) umbral blade in kaorti resin, etc. With other PrCs/class features, I'd think they fall under the "specific trumps general" exception and are thus allowed.

    If someone can cite rules invalidating this reading, please do so.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I read it as no other enchantments, including weapon crystals, dipping a (non-kaorti) umbral blade in kaorti resin, etc. With other PrCs/class features, I'd think they fall under the "specific trumps general" exception and are thus allowed.

    If someone can cite rules invalidating this reading, please do so.
    I would agree with the others (and not just because it'll un-cripple this ability)

    umbral blade seems to be like a template applied to a pre-existing weapon of at least +1 since it can be put on new weapons in case you lose your old one. since the "base weapon" (+1 or more slashing weapon) can get more stuff, then it seems to stand to reason that this would too.

    like many copypasta errors, this stems from a lack of pasta. it seems to be trying to differentiate itself from FoP's magic weapon ability which does let you imbue items with a +x ability with x equal to a number in raw enhancements or properties (shock, frost, etc) but didn't remember to put that, similar to the confusion caused with tactical soldier's free/not free combat reflexes.

    since it was talking about you putting enhancements on your weapons the sentence before, I think that's what it was talking about

    I can't seem to find an errata for RoD, that's how I understand it.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    I would agree with the others (and not just because it'll un-cripple this ability)

    umbral blade seems to be like a template applied to a pre-existing weapon of at least +1 since it can be put on new weapons in case you lose your old one. since the "base weapon" (+1 or more slashing weapon) can get more stuff, then it seems to stand to reason that this would too.

    like many copypasta errors, this stems from a lack of pasta. it seems to be trying to differentiate itself from FoP's magic weapon ability which does let you imbue items with a +x ability with x equal to a number in raw enhancements or properties (shock, frost, etc) but didn't remember to put that, similar to the confusion caused with tactical soldier's free/not free combat reflexes.

    since it was talking about you putting enhancements on your weapons the sentence before, I think that's what it was talking about

    I can't seem to find an errata for RoD, that's how I understand it.
    I'm sorry; I honestly cannot tell from your response if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my posted understanding of the rules for further enchantments.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground XXXI

    "You can't add other special powers or properties to your Umbral Blade"

    Actual text. Clear cut. The other abilities of the class (morphic blade, shadow strike, shadowbane, shadowsharp) specifically reference the Umbral Blade ability.

    Abilities or powers that modify attacks would work. Abilities or powers that modify the properties of the Umbral Blade will not.

    However...any slashing melee weapon with an enchancement bonus of at least +1 can be transformed into an Umbral Blade that gains the powers approriate to your level.

    What happens to any powers or properties possessed by the weapon is not clear. They are not being 'added' to the Umbral Blade if they are a pre existing power or special property.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •