My Little Pony XL: The Plot Thickens!

[thubby]

Did I just insane troll logic a way for both "Ditzy Doo" and "Derpy" to be correct?

i get it! *head asplodes*
when is derpy called ditzy?

[Forum Explorer]

I just realized that Ditzy Doo is in fact the writer of the Daring Doo novels and that her cutie mark represents her wild imagination.

[MCerberus]

I just realized that Ditzy Doo is in fact the writer of the Daring Doo novels and that her cutie mark represents her wild imagination.

She's simultaneously Dash's hero and greatest bane?

[Tiki Snakes]

I don't know, I think the episode spoilers are a bit ambitious, keeping all that spoilered all the way till tuesday. That's many days afterwards, after all. Generally, If I haven't seen the episode yet I won't visit ponythread till I have anyway. 24hours or so to account for timezones seems more than fair, really.

But all this future and far-future episode teasers, spoilers, speculation and so on is often a nuisance to try and avoid. Which I would much prefer to be able to do. Proper tagging of the spoilers makes it a lot easier.

But perhaps that's just me. It's not exactly something I feel it worth fretting about. I'd probably not even bother bringing it up, only you asked. So there it is.

And yeah, I do consider episode synopsises to be spoiler material also and avoid them just as much in real life as I do online for the most part.

[Anarion]

Hey, so is anyone getting links from various pony youtube videos to fun science education videos? I mean, the answer is clearly yes based on the comments on this video, but uh, what the hay?

[erikun]

She's simultaneously Dash's hero and greatest bane?

This is an awesome bit of headcanon, and I'm stealing it immediately.

i get it! *head asplodes*
when is derpy called ditzy?

I seem to recall the original Faust sketch being named "Ditzy", Ditzy Doo was name-dropped in Winter Wrap-Up, and that was her planned name for Last Roundup before it was switched to Derpy. (From the mouth of Amy Keating Rogers, the episode writer) So, it's been one of her other fan-names for awhile now.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I seem to recall the original Faust sketch being named "Ditzy", Ditzy Doo was name-dropped in Winter Wrap-Up, and that was her planned name for Last Roundup before it was switched to Derpy. (From the mouth of Amy Keating Rogers, the episode writer) So, it's been one of her other fan-names for awhile now.

If you mean this sketch then from Lauren, then no that was drawn for a charity fundraiser for Japan and auctioned at $2151 dollars under the name Derpy. So its not an "original sketch" in the sense you probably meant and Lauren was one of the first to fall to the Derpy despite giving touching off Ditzy Doo.

Yeah that story about Winter Wrap-Up is loosely accurate, in that there were loose plans to use Derpy still technically unnamed random design as Ditzy Doo but that never actually quite happened. Mrs Rogers largely confirms what we already knew in this regard, though we should note she's the writer not the artist so what Ditzy would have looked like never quite materializes. That splitting of hairs doesn't really matter since certainly the staff itself (whatever those bastards at Hasbro do) has fallen to Derpy, the Doctor, and a couple of others.

And if Derpygate did anything positive I think its put the final nail in that particular coffin. At least personally I saw the occasional "Ditzy is a better name" posts seemed to die a swift death. Too much appearance of siding with certain unmentionable parties makes it rather like letting the dragon play in the hayloft yes?

A is A and Derpy is Derpy.

[thubby]

Hey, so is anyone getting links from various pony youtube videos to fun science education videos? I mean, the answer is clearly yes based on the comments on this video, but uh, what the hay?

and here's why

i just noticed that 2 other alicorns are in canon. 1 is a background pony in magic preschool
the other is in the love potion book.

[Aotrs Commander]

Best.

Pony.

Fanfic.

Ever.

Daring Doo and the Shiny Crystal.

It has starships, explosions, cyborgs, space-dinosaurs, lasers AND undead! AWESOME!



I mean, wow, if it had ninjas and Pokemon as well, I'd have sworn it was something I could have written myself.

[SiuiS]

I've decided catchin up is more fun if I'm proactive, so you fine ponyfolk will be getting a bunch of spread-out-ish baby quote posts so I don't look at my work load, grimace, and go off to doodle stuff. Yes, mate, I'm still working on your pic. Don't fret!
...

relatively baby sized.

*Slams hands over ears*

As one who has seen the curse in action, I kindly request- for your own safety- that you exit the building, turn around three times, and recite a line from a different story by the same author.

No worries. I'm fey enough that such petty curses don't really affect me unless it's thematic.

So you're saying you don't want anypony to say Macbeth?

Sorry, Evil.*

Actually, I'm not sorry at all...

Heh.

I haven't yet seen her introductory episode, and I'm on my 3DS so her wiki page won't load for me, but where does Zecora fit in with the Earth Pony Magic thing? *Are zebras a kind of pony, or is she like an exception because of where she lives, or am I just confuzzling things?

She doesn't; Zecora is a zebra, not a pony. She makes use of shamanic magic a lot though, in the traditional voodoo-esque style of illusions, medicines, and cryptic speaking.

Is not all the world a stage? *Are not all the men and women merely actors?

Only to an extent, and only in a limited context.

Zecora is supposed to be a stranger to these lands, and on the scale of pony magic it is uncertain where she stands, but of what was shown to us of her abilities on-screen, wiccan crafts like alchemy, and illusions are her forte, it would seem. In other words, Zecora's tribe most likely does have the "magic" vibe, but it goes even deeper than that of Earth-ponykind, having knowledge of the nature rather than strength or body or mind.

A quibble; Wicca is a religion, so using its root would get your point across better. Mostly because neither illusions nor alchemy are all that Wiccan.

Rhymes aside, zebras are probably still attuned to magic in some way, but I haven't given enough thought to it yet to really tell if it's closer to that of Earth ponies or, Unicorns, say. Unicorns do have the horns, but in order use magic beyond the basic "telekinetic handling", they still need to either read books or have their talent provide the understanding. Zebra magic could work in a similar fashion, and perhaps Zecora's "cutie mark" simply reflects her alchemical passion, and oh god stop these rhymes, why am I speaking in rhymes?!?!*

*runs off*

I disagree. I think inherent magic (implicit over explicit, say) is a pony thing. Faust herself has said many times (not just the once linked) that all ponies are magic, and earth pony magic is more subtle but no less 'strong' or 'magic'. Zebras however, have no such Word of God going for them. I think they operate under standard fantasy assumptions, that they are nonmagical, but can learn a craft involving magic such as Zecora's witchery.

Yes, this means that unicorns (or other ponies) can learn it in addition to their own magic. Provided they can overcome their closed-mindedness, of course.

So crazy thought for the day:

Mass Effect 3 Pony DLC. *You'd get a portable OFC weapon and a new squad*member! *But who?

Star Seargent Derpy, Along with the Bubble Wrap armor. No stay boosts, but it increases galactic morale, as everytime someone shoots you, your new squad mate giggles.*

Colonel Derpy.

Nah, she got made into a Star Sergeant, remember?

Is this general Derpicus the BA Derpy from the fanart or just the average mailmare defending the universe?

Personally my first thought was Vanguard Pinkie, but then she'd sing and start a civil war somewhere...

Hm. Possible, possible...

Makes me wonder how they handle things in magic kindergarten, since each student would probably be learning completely different spells. Perhaps there are some basic lessons on focusing that can be taught.

Learning spells is like learning 2+2=4 instead of actual arithmetic. You'll get 2+2 easier, and faster, but you won't be able to figure out 3+2, or, heaven help you, 2+3.

In magic kindergarten, ponies learn theory, formula basics and units of measurement much as a human kid learns basic physics.

Yeesh, yeah. Which begs the question... what pony first used that spell? Was it part of their special talent (in which case: creepy!)? Or... did Twilight invent it (in which case: double creepy!)?

Solved, when you realize a spell is an application of understanding, and not a discrete packet of specific ends with nor rhyme or reason.

Okay, I get that. How does it relate to the episode? Who was "over a barrel" in that?

I honestly think they named the episode that because barrels are western. That's the best I've got.

It was definitely her magic. The whole light show came out of her horn.

Eh, I remember distinctly thinking that the lightshow wasn't magical. Or at least not definitively so; alas, my DVR/tv connection is shot, such that I can't watch anything. Otherwise I'd check.

So, Twilight has great magic reserves, rather than being naturally skilled at magic? Actually yeah, I guess that makes sense. That's why she studies so hard.

Exactly. Dame Sparkle has tremendous potential output, a vast reservoir. Her bus has width. She still needs the prose software however.

I'm sure you're not the only one, but earth ponies certainly seem to have some special talents that other ponies don't possess. Besides the examples of bucking trees and Pinkie Sense, there's also the Hearth's Warming episode. It's stated that only the earth ponies could grow food. Later, we see Smart Cookie (AJ) pick up a pile of dirt, and as soon as she does a sprout grows out of it (and yes, it was just a play, but I think it counts). It's not just a talent for farming, plants simply grow better around earth ponies. It's possible they don't grow at all when earth ponies aren't around (Remember Bridal Gossip when the ponies were clearly afraid of the idea of trees that grow by themselves?)

Earth ponies may not have any kind of flashy magic, but I think it's clear that Equestria simply couldn't survive without them.

I agree that Equestria couldn't survive without earth ponies, but not that they are the only ones who can grow food; there's a world of difference between 'earth ponies are better' and 'non-earth ponies are bad'.

Remember that unicorns used to raise the sun and moon before Celestia/Luna. My take is that for large scale and epic spells requires a number of unicorns to work together for the effect, barring super talents like Twilight or god like power of Celestia/Luna. Unicorn school therefore teaches focus and cooperation.

In my mind's eye I can see magic circles of unicorns attempting complicated spells. Individual spell casting will have to be simple spells or spells related to your talent.

Also judging by the Dragon hatching Kobiyashi Maru, I suspect a unicorn's spell strength is dependent on self confidence and natural talent. A conceited unicorn like Trixie therefore has a faire amount of self confidence that give her a minor edge in spell strength and variety. Which makes me wonder if she would have lost some of her spell strength if her self confidence received a crippling blow after the event of boast busters. Though judging by her parting words she still retains a good amount of self importance. There probably has been fanfics that explore such premise already. I wouldn't know since the only Trixie fic I read are Esper's

There has! There was a weird sort of Twi/Xie, Twi/Luna fic that opened with Twilight witnessing a poor and destitute Trixie trying to put on a show wihout her wagon and such. It went into some detail about the pattern of magic made, which Twilight bolstered using her own reserves. It was a beautiful idea, which sadly never caught on. Perhaps too complicated for the general crowd. *shrug*

I wanted to contest something you said when I first quoted this, but cannot seem to remember for the life of me...

Next up on my list: Learn to draw. Welp, this one'll probably take a while.

You'd be surprised! Look at the Thanqol Learns To Draw Thread for an idea on the kind of speed one can have. I've been drawing since I was 3, and Thanqol has come as far in six months as I have in fifteen years. We've both made progress since then, but he's eclipsed me, and you can too!

Forgot about this statement, remedying that now. I don't think you were wrong at all. Fluttershy really is that nice, by choice. It's true that she has a solid core of force of will within her.

Hm. This is an interesting take. I think it would have been cool to hear this like, a year ago. I certainly like the idea of a Fluttershy who is doing a old job of sticking to her ideal self more than a manipulative jerk. I'm a firm believer in scruples and such only really mattering when they're tested; a fluttershy who's only nice until being nice is hard would quite literally sicken me.

That's mostly been turned to good for protecting others, but has now caused her to go a little overboard at the gala and with her assertiveness. Those little lapses, however, don't change the fact that Fluttershy is nice and sincerely wants to be nice. If anything, they're the exceptions that prove the rule.

I don't quite get how it's the exception which proves the rule, but my mental faculties are somewhat overburdened with other processes just the nonce.

And I suppose with the knowledge that Pinkie just hacked chrome would make her a Mass Effect Engineer wouldn't it.

Hmmmm... What skills would Gummy the combat drone have, anyway?

But what would that leave Rarity as then?

Depends on your take. I'd place her as an adept, myself. Can't quite recall why anymore though. Hm.

So if we were to plot out the ponies:

Twilight: Adept
Applejack: Soldier
Fluttershy: Engineer
Pinkie: Infiltrator
Rarity: Sentinel*
Dash: Vanguard

Okay, let's see. Switch Twilight and Rarity. Rarity would be an Asari Adept, multiplayer-parlance, because stasis, warp and throw fit her style. Elegant, simple, and effective (except when it's not). Twilight on the other hand, would know the value of tech armor, taking her time with cover, and setting up biotic explosions wih herself and her squad.

Bu hey, I've had waaaay too much time with multiplayer and now you've engage my processes. Here we go.

Spoiler

Show

Rainbow Dash:*quite simply, vanguard. A flying tackle, that explodes on impact? Shockwaves? Fitness? Done. Low power loadout for repeated sonic rainbooms, and because dash doesn't need weapons; she takes out barns with her face!

Pinkie Pie: infiltrator (human). Code name Soirée, invisibility offers the best surprise party opportunities. Deadpool comic supplies the sniper rifle. Incinerate is like, the birthday cake candle lighting tool.

Applejack: least amount of thought put into it, but soldier. Give her a mattock for the solid feel of kick, and maybe a spike thrower with a bayonet so she can set spikes for fences, and thresh wheat (and behinds).

Fluttershy: human engineer for certain and for true. Overload is The Stare, kncocking down and incopacitating multiple targets, while Angel Bunny, her see drone, moves nimbly and silently around, shooting rockets.

Big Mac: Krogan Soldier. Called him Apple Bucker. Why? Because he's big, he's red, and he hits like a meat truck.

Spike: Drell vanguard, codenamed Majordomo. Different tactics than above, Biotic charge somewhat forsaken in exchange for pull (his message delivery system). Kind of a stretch, true. Ah well.

Angel Bunny: Salarian infiltrator. He pops up out of nowhere and hits with a crazy melee strike, Kung-pow-chicken style. Or Kung fu style. Are those both styles? Regardless, he's here, and I'd you don't have the carrot, he's got the stick.

Midnight: Turian Sentinel, codenamed Zero Hour. Much like her mother, packing armor, but with a faster recharge and the ability to take out all foes. She's a shocker, will knock you off your feet, this one.

Shimmer Snowflake: quarian infiltrator. Nice enough that enemies go "y'know, I'm not sure I wanna attack this one", able to go forever unseen when she wants to, and spends most of her time as medic. Also looks good in with with magenta trim.

Faithful Song: asari vanguard. She glomps with the force of ten thousand hugs, which becomes less of a joke and more terrifying when you do the math; if a hug has approximately one-half of a newton in force... Gregarious even by asari standards, she's always there to deliver a hug. Or a shotgun blast to the face.

Raz_Fox: Salarian infiltrator. Or engineer... The one with decoy. *Plays with enemy's head as much as he shoots them. Talks fast, thinks faster, and you can never be certain if you're talking to the right one. Or even if there are two in the first place.

Brazen Shield: Turian soldier. High-capacity assault rifle, and... That's it. No frills, just dependable, reliable firepower.

Starry Notions: Drell adept. Fragile, Agile, and green. Combat strategy involves doing stupid things so well the enemy can't decide between face palming or cursing their luck; terrible skill use results in lots of accidental(?) explosions with spontaneous bots of kungfu fighting.

Luna: human sentinel. Very straightforward, the princess of the night brings sound, passionate violence to her foes. Targets tend to get thrown around by the sound of her voice, o the thunderclaps that issue from her anger. Codenamed Senator.

Celestia: asari adept. Spec'd for throw, able to send opponents flying - possibly to the moon. Able to freeze supplicants merely by the sound of her authoritative voice (stasis) and capable of handling discord-level threats with relative aplomb.

Could have sworn there was more. Alas.

Is that satire of the feudal-era British Isles in pony form?

It is now! *save*

I'm with Thanqol, I prefer my earth ponies without magic. I like to think it's the trees and plants that are magic, and the earth ponies just have a real knack for dealing with such things. Or... the trees and plants prefer the care of earth ponies over other ponies, or the earth ponies just have that natural kind of patience and care that the plants like and/or need, a kind of patience and care that other ponies tend to lack.

That fits the description of magic though, doesn't it? Ask a magician how they grew such fabulous fruits & veggies, and "the plants just like me I guess" is as accurate an answer as any. Magic is Knowing.

Part of the problem is that magic is both a passive force and an active application of some similar force. Unicorns have magic (active) which is a conscious channeling of their assumed passive force reserves. Earth ponies seemingly have magic (passive mysterious force) but no direct outlet like fireballs or instagrow powers.

I've been quoted as saying there is magic in bird flight. there is, but it is also a bunch of new-age malarkey. Presentation and interpretation count for a lot. Earth ponies definitely have magic of some sort, and it's not some misguided feeling that balance is required. Personally, I think unicorns are the weakest of the pony races. Everyone who's all "OMG unicrons haev magi they must pwn!" doesn't pay attention to the setting. The assumption that magic = totally sweet optimized build because why not is a drastic failure of insight.

... That may come across as rude there. I'll blame the fact that I just sort of started ranting without relation to what I was discussing prior >>;

Same with Zebras. Zecora doesn't have magic herself, she's just really knowledgable about magical herbs and such.

Eyup.

Where does the idea that earth ponies are stronger than other ponies come from? From what I've seen, Rainbow Dash easily beats Applejack in hoof-wrestling, while AJ totally owns her in bucking stuff, suggesting that AJ is (much) stronger than RD in her hind legs but weaker than RD in her front legs. AJ's strength in her hind legs is easily and naturally explained by many years of bucking trees, a non-inherited trait that someone like Pinkie Pie probably can't claim but anypony could supposedly train given time and dedication.

On the other hoof, there's no such natural explanation for RD's strength in her front legs (her wings are a different matter), which suggests that her strength there is probably within the norm or not too far above it, certainly not comparable to AJ's strength in her hind legs which is probably way above average.

If earth ponies are stronger on average, it probably has more to do with the kinds of jobs they tend to have than any inborn ability. At least that's my take on it.

This is based on some bad premises.
Arm (and presumably, hoof) wrestling tends to have less to do with strength and more to do with leverage and skill. Certainly strength matters, but it's a remarkable difference from, say, a curling competition.

The body tends to work as a unit, especially in similar areas. Strong wings require strong shoulders which bestow a sturdy chest, strong back and good chest. I'm often told as an MT I must have really strong fingers; I don't have the heart to tell them it's all in the hips anymore.

Finally, there is a world of difference between manual labor and actual fitness training. There are different kinds of strong. Rainbow Dash, who specifically seems To train her body to be at (her understanding of) its peak would be stronger in the usual sense than Applejack, certainly. Applejack wouldn't get very strong bucking trees all the time; she'd get more endurance, and better technique, but not strength. So by my understanding of physiology, you have it backwards - AJ has no reason to be freakishly strong, such as by stopping a speeding cart entirely (and note that this requires a different muscle group entirely; if her shoulders were weak it wouldn't matter how strong her legs were. Face plant!), where RD has reason to be as strong and fit as she is, being a semiprofessional athlete.

RE: Pronunciations. As a total Greek mythology nerd, I feel obliged to point out that Cerberus is prononced with a hard C, not a soft one. Also, I pronounce it TAR-tar-rus, not Tar-TAR-us, but I have no idea which pronunciation is correct.

BTW, a very good episode, very logical use of time travel and some of the funniest moments I've seen in a while. I actually love Twilight's future-punk look. She should keep it!

Woo! I knew the hard K was the way to go!
Tartarus is a weird one, though, I'll admit.

So after watching it a few more times, I think I can confirm my initial enthusiasm. This episode is plain awesome ^^ One of the best. Difficult to rate the episodes, but I'd say it's somewhere at the top.

The pacing, the story, the jokes, the way all the ponies have a part... it was really enjoyable. It feels like a while since I've enjoyed an episode quite like this. I'm not sure what it is exactly, it just works.

Aye, this had a lot of the old charm, despite being so weirdly open about the magic. I'm not sure what it means that Twilight can teleport folks with difficulty and a chance of failure, but sees a formula for time travel and goes "sure thing!" *zzzzip!* off through time!

Also, I think folks ascribe a more serious role to Celestia than she has. Her Spirit of the Sun thing gives her feasible magic might, maybe. But as a princess she is no more powerful than comparable royalty elsewhere. She isn't some Xanatos-style mastermind orchestrating the world. She really does seem to be just a very competent monarch who is sad that everypony can't let her race and ethnicity go, and just be her subjects and friends.

[Thanqol]

You'd be surprised! Look at the Thanqol Learns To Draw Thread for an idea on the kind of speed one can have. I've been drawing since I was 3, and Thanqol has come as far in six months as I have in fifteen years. We've both made progress since then, but he's eclipsed me, and you can too!

10 months. In 50 days I'll have made a year.

[Deadly]

Alright, my update for today on the Spoiler B Gone thing:

DO YOU HATE SPOILER TAGS?

Well, Deadly's here to help you get rid of them... with a vengeance! Create a new bookmark in your browser and copy the code below as the link/url of said bookmark. Name it something helpful, like "Spoilers B GONE!" or whatever. Then whenever you view a thread here on GitP you just hit the bookmark and BAM! no more spoilers.

You won't even see the boxes, just the bare innards in all their gory glory.

It also makes sure that no image is wider than 600px, to avoid stretching pages, and will attempt to "intelligently" remove repeated images except avatars. Neat, huh? Sadly that last part means stuff like pony emotes may get lost but the forum doesn't make it easy for me to single out images in quotes as I'd have liked... that's an open problem, I guess.

Tested in Firefox, Chrome and Opera. Should work in any modern browser, but you never know with these things.

javascript:(function() { var a = document.getElementsByTagName('div'); for (var i = 0 ; i < a.length ; i++) { if (a[i].className == 'spoiler') { a[i].style.display = 'block'; a[i].className = ''; } else if (a[i].className == 'pre-spoiler') { a[i].style.display = 'none'; }} var ims = new Array(); var tmp; a = document.getElementsByTagName('img'); for (i = 0 ; i < a.length ; i++) { tmp = a[i].parentNode.className ; if (ims.indexOf(a[i].getAttribute('src')) == -1) { ims.push(a[i].getAttribute('src')); a[i].style.maxWidth = '600px'; } else if (tmp != 'avataroverflow' && tmp != 'alt2') { a[i].style.display = 'none' ; }}})();

If you don't mind repeated images, here's a version that leaves them be.

javascript:(function() { var a = document.getElementsByTagName('div'); for (var i = 0 ; i < a.length ; i++) { if (a[i].className == 'spoiler') { a[i].style.display = 'block'; a[i].className = ''; } else if (a[i].className == 'pre-spoiler') { a[i].style.display = 'none'; }} a = document.getElementsByTagName('img'); for (i = 0 ; i < a.length ; i++) { a[i].style.maxWidth = '600px'; }})();

[DigoDragon]

finale

Spoiler

Show

how messed up would it be if the dark secret is that shes not an alicorn?

Scandelicious!!
But at the same time makes a lot of sense.
(Not counting the toy line)

[Thanqol]

Mare In The Mirror: Final Review

Spoiler

Show

p14:

Perhaps it's the weariness, perhaps it's the writing, but I got through this part without putting on my editor's hat. I do have some vague touchy-feely pacing thoughts though.

There was a beautiful refrain with the shards of mirror, but perhaps the scenes didn't have as unified a beat as they might have. A little lapse into poetry, a common thread that united those trials even before the mirror was revealed. A beat that repeated through each segment. A segue from one into the other. This thought is the vaguest and most difficult to phrase because I'm trying to hint at how to convert the good into the great. But look at the Best Night Ever and Return of Harmony p1; the progression and similarities and echoes from one scene into another.

Anyway. Rambly and probably unhelpful. So far so good, onwards.

p15:

Midnight is really reminding me of one of the Gentry through this; paired with the Hedge metaphor earlier I'm getting a delicious Changeling vibe to this. I also think you did a really powerful thing with the opening of this part: A number of hopeful plans were advanced, and they were all cut brutally short - except for one, except for Rainbow's escape. That has power because it brings crushing despair while leaving one guttering ray of hope to cling to.

Bargaining your eyes for the ability to see the truth? There's a powerful moment.

p16:

Daffodil Dreams

Woah. I preread a fanfic starring an OC named Daisy Dreams and had a bit of a disconnect there for a second.

In fact I am quite proud of your little attempt there, very nice.

Chills. This story was expertly done.

The most powerful parts of your writing are really the parts where you blend the innocent and the terrible; you can really flow one into the other and produce a legitimate sense of horror and disgust. The small things; the buildup, the obsession with and sexualisation of death are really where your stories come alive for me.


Blue Jet is an excellent character because of just how doomed she is. She's been found out by Midnight and her execution is just a matter of time but she's not even flinching in her double act. She's living on borrowed time and is doing the best she can during it.

p17:

It feels like these moments with the mirror fragments are the real heart of this story. They've got resonance. Mirrors have such power to them.

p18:

"You said it yourself," Luna said, as the others gathered behind her. "This is the end."

*Had put on The End by the Doors before starting this part*


I feel vaguely dissatisfied with the ending. It was a series of epilogues and a return to normality but I don't think that after all the trials and hardships of this story there can be a return to normality. I think that taking us through the details of an ending where everything's worked out, while tempting for an author, is out of tone for the story in general. After so much darkness we crave a day in the sun, but what we should get - what we really need - is the first ray of dawn.


Final Retrospective:

These final few chapters were well structured and flowed well, but ultimately the story as a whole was unfortunately fragmented. This is, as I've said before, hard to say or articulate, but the good is the enemy of the great, and this story is tantalisingly close enough to the great that it makes me regret the moments that are merely good.

Manna is one of the weakest parts of the entire story. As a reader, I feel like she and everything related to her could have just been outright cut and the story wouldn't be enormously different. I feel like the same could be said for a lot of the secondary characters, like Rarity and Fluttershy. They brought some powerful moments to the story but those moments weren't worth the loss of focus that inherently comes with expanding your party's roster.

This story's key flaw is a lack of focus. The story is about Luna, Trixie, Twilight and Midnight. Everything should be through the lens of those characters. Each character's role in the story should be defined by how they advance the stories of the main characters. If you were to revise this story, taken as a whole, that's where I'd advise you to start.

It's tragic that the good takes away from the great, but it does.


Now that all said, that is all speculation based off my own desire to push myself and my writing to it's greatest possible potential. Very few stories get rated according to this standard. This story was certainly good and I enjoyed reading it hugely. Midnight is an absolutely fantastic villain, and the moments when she was really on stage, especially her story, were transcendent.

And further, taking into account the limitations of the writing format - including that this is essentially a first draft! - then it's marvellous. You've been writing this story for nearly a year now and that deserves major props. Seeing a major project through to completion like this is an achievement anyone could be proud of, and I can see that you've learned a lot through all this.

And that, by far, is the most encouraging thing. I can say with perfect honesty that I'm immensely looking forwards to your next piece because if you can apply the lessons you've learned from this it's going to be amazing.

[Anarion]

Hm. This is an interesting take. I think it would have been cool to hear this like, a year ago. I certainly like the idea of a Fluttershy who is doing a old job of sticking to her ideal self more than a manipulative jerk. I'm a firm believer in scruples and such only really mattering when they're tested; a fluttershy who's only nice until being nice is hard would quite literally sicken me.

I don't quite get how it's the exception which proves the rule, but my mental faculties are somewhat overburdened with other processes just the nonce.

Well, in the cases where Fluttershy was successfully assertive to protect her friends, she still went back to being kind and softspoken afterwards, rather than being more forceful. And in the cases where she exploded and got angry at somepony, she ended up pretty upset about it and wanted to go back to being softspoken and kind. This leads me to believe that she really wants to be nice because whether it works for or against her, she tends to quickly go back to her base personality.

[SiuiS]

10 months. In 50 days I'll have made a year.

Deliberate choice. You have drawn longer than six by four; e has drawn longer than fifteen by ten. We cannot quantify those last four months though, nor the last four years (or the first four, either).

Well, in the cases where Fluttershy was successfully assertive to protect her friends, she still went back to being kind and softspoken afterwards, rather than being more forceful. And in the cases where she exploded and got angry at somepony, she ended up pretty upset about it and wanted to go back to being softspoken and kind. This leads me to believe that she really wants to be nice because whether it works for or against her, she tends to quickly go back to her base personality.

maybe. The spin is still possible, but we are willing to admit that SiuiS' personal hang ups are coming to the fore rather than any fault on Fluttershy's part. There is an almost unhealthy level of cynicism beneath all that love and tolerance. And an almost unhealthy level of idealism beneath the cynicism.

The poor colt is, in a word, doomed. XD

[Thanqol]

Deliberate choice. You have drawn longer than six by four; e has drawn longer than fifteen by ten. We cannot quantify those last four months though, nor the last four years (or the first four, either).

This is either too smart or too incoherent for me to understand.

[Grif]

One word on the new episode. Awesome.

I tip my hat at Ms Morrow.

[Aotrs Commander]

Nah, she got made into a Star Sergeant, remember?

Damn straight!

And now I have space-muffins!

That you do, Star-Sergeant, that you do.

Spoiler

Show

Rainbow Dash:*quite simply, vanguard. A flying tackle, that explodes on impact? Shockwaves? Fitness? Done. Low power loadout for repeated sonic rainbooms, and because dash doesn't need weapons; she takes out barns with her face!

Pinkie Pie: infiltrator (human). Code name Soirée, invisibility offers the best surprise party opportunities. Deadpool comic supplies the sniper rifle. Incinerate is like, the birthday cake candle lighting tool.

Applejack: least amount of thought put into it, but soldier. Give her a mattock for the solid feel of kick, and maybe a spike thrower with a bayonet so she can set spikes for fences, and thresh wheat (and behinds).

Fluttershy: human engineer for certain and for true. Overload is The Stare, kncocking down and incopacitating multiple targets, while Angel Bunny, her see drone, moves nimbly and silently around, shooting rockets.

Big Mac: Krogan Soldier. Called him Apple Bucker. Why? Because he's big, he's red, and he hits like a meat truck.

Spike: Drell vanguard, codenamed Majordomo. Different tactics than above, Biotic charge somewhat forsaken in exchange for pull (his message delivery system). Kind of a stretch, true. Ah well.

Angel Bunny: Salarian infiltrator. He pops up out of nowhere and hits with a crazy melee strike, Kung-pow-chicken style. Or Kung fu style. Are those both styles? Regardless, he's here, and I'd you don't have the carrot, he's got the stick.

Midnight: Turian Sentinel, codenamed Zero Hour. Much like her mother, packing armor, but with a faster recharge and the ability to take out all foes. She's a shocker, will knock you off your feet, this one.

Shimmer Snowflake: quarian infiltrator. Nice enough that enemies go "y'know, I'm not sure I wanna attack this one", able to go forever unseen when she wants to, and spends most of her time as medic. Also looks good in with with magenta trim.

Faithful Song: asari vanguard. She glomps with the force of ten thousand hugs, which becomes less of a joke and more terrifying when you do the math; if a hug has approximately one-half of a newton in force... Gregarious even by asari standards, she's always there to deliver a hug. Or a shotgun blast to the face.

Raz_Fox: Salarian infiltrator. Or engineer... The one with decoy. *Plays with enemy's head as much as he shoots them. Talks fast, thinks faster, and you can never be certain if you're talking to the right one. Or even if there are two in the first place.

Brazen Shield: Turian soldier. High-capacity assault rifle, and... That's it. No frills, just dependable, reliable firepower.

Starry Notions: Drell adept. Fragile, Agile, and green. Combat strategy involves doing stupid things so well the enemy can't decide between face palming or cursing their luck; terrible skill use results in lots of accidental(?) explosions with spontaneous bots of kungfu fighting.

Luna: human sentinel. Very straightforward, the princess of the night brings sound, passionate violence to her foes. Targets tend to get thrown around by the sound of her voice, o the thunderclaps that issue from her anger. Codenamed Senator.

Celestia: asari adept. Spec'd for throw, able to send opponents flying - possibly to the moon. Able to freeze supplicants merely by the sound of her authoritative voice (stasis) and capable of handling discord-level threats with relative aplomb.

Bleakbane: Lich Cheating Bastard. This can be summed up by one (para)phrase from another game in in ME's lineage...

"Biotics is impressive, but now Bleakbane leads! Coldbeams for everypony!"

[Deadly]

This is based on some bad premises.
Arm (and presumably, hoof) wrestling tends to have less to do with strength and more to do with leverage and skill. Certainly strength matters, but it's a remarkable difference from, say, a curling competition.

The body tends to work as a unit, especially in similar areas. Strong wings require strong shoulders which bestow a sturdy chest, strong back and good chest. I'm often told as an MT I must have really strong fingers; I don't have the heart to tell them it's all in the hips anymore.

Finally, there is a world of difference between manual labor and actual fitness training. There are different kinds of strong. Rainbow Dash, who specifically seems To train her body to be at (her understanding of) its peak would be stronger in the usual sense than Applejack, certainly. Applejack wouldn't get very strong bucking trees all the time; she'd get more endurance, and better technique, but not strength. So by my understanding of physiology, you have it backwards - AJ has no reason to be freakishly strong, such as by stopping a speeding cart entirely (and note that this requires a different muscle group entirely; if her shoulders were weak it wouldn't matter how strong her legs were. Face plant!), where RD has reason to be as strong and fit as she is, being a semiprofessional athlete.

All good points, and I'd have to concede that you're probably right and I'm woefully ignorant on a lot of this. At least, you're right in the real world. But do we base things on how it all works in the real world, or on what is likely to have been the intention of the writers?

I didn't think of the details and complexities you outlined there, I doubt most of the writers and animators would have too. When RD beats AJ in a hoof wrestle it should probably be taken as the obvious hint that RD for whatever reason is stronger in her front hooves than AJ. And when AJ stops that runaway cart you probably shouldn't be thinking all logically about it and just realize that the intension was to show that AJ is really strong in her hind legs.

Basically, I think you're overthinking it

Mare In The Mirror: Final Review

Spoiler

Show

p14:

Perhaps it's the weariness, perhaps it's the writing, but I got through this part without putting on my editor's hat. I do have some vague touchy-feely pacing thoughts though.

There was a beautiful refrain with the shards of mirror, but perhaps the scenes didn't have as unified a beat as they might have. A little lapse into poetry, a common thread that united those trials even before the mirror was revealed. A beat that repeated through each segment. A segue from one into the other. This thought is the vaguest and most difficult to phrase because I'm trying to hint at how to convert the good into the great. But look at the Best Night Ever and Return of Harmony p1; the progression and similarities and echoes from one scene into another.

Anyway. Rambly and probably unhelpful. So far so good, onwards.

Hmm... I'll have to ponder that for a while, I suspect.

Spoiler

Show

p15:

Midnight is really reminding me of one of the Gentry through this; paired with the Hedge metaphor earlier I'm getting a delicious Changeling vibe to this. I also think you did a really powerful thing with the opening of this part: A number of hopeful plans were advanced, and they were all cut brutally short - except for one, except for Rainbow's escape. That has power because it brings crushing despair while leaving one guttering ray of hope to cling to.

Bargaining your eyes for the ability to see the truth? There's a powerful moment.

Thanks. The Changeling/Hedge vibe was incidental, not really intended. I had another reference in mind (which no one has yet to get), and the Changeling-like nature of the whole thing just emerged out of that. I liked that, though, it was delightfully surprising.

Spoiler

Show

Chills. This story was expertly done.

The most powerful parts of your writing are really the parts where you blend the innocent and the terrible; you can really flow one into the other and produce a legitimate sense of horror and disgust. The small things; the buildup, the obsession with and sexualisation of death are really where your stories come alive for me.

Thanks again! I really was quite proud of Midnight's little tale there, and it was a delight to write too. I felt so terrible for Daffodil. If I were to point out my favorite part of this entire story, that is it.

Spoiler

Show

Blue Jet is an excellent character because of just how doomed she is. She's been found out by Midnight and her execution is just a matter of time but she's not even flinching in her double act. She's living on borrowed time and is doing the best she can during it.

I felt that perhaps a little deeper look into her as a character would have been nice, but there were so many characters and things competing for focus. I'm glad she worked for you.

Spoiler

Show

I feel vaguely dissatisfied with the ending. It was a series of epilogues and a return to normality but I don't think that after all the trials and hardships of this story there can be a return to normality. I think that taking us through the details of an ending where everything's worked out, while tempting for an author, is out of tone for the story in general. After so much darkness we crave a day in the sun, but what we should get - what we really need - is the first ray of dawn.

Perhaps it isn't really supposed to be the end. I know for now it is, and there were several points where I thought "this would make a great ending, but... there's more still left to wrap up. Dammit :(" So I kept going.

I certainly don't think this is a return to normality, though. But again, that may just be because I have ideas for a follow-up flowing around in my head.

Spoiler

Show

Final Retrospective:

These final few chapters were well structured and flowed well, but ultimately the story as a whole was unfortunately fragmented. This is, as I've said before, hard to say or articulate, but the good is the enemy of the great, and this story is tantalisingly close enough to the great that it makes me regret the moments that are merely good.

Manna is one of the weakest parts of the entire story. As a reader, I feel like she and everything related to her could have just been outright cut and the story wouldn't be enormously different. I feel like the same could be said for a lot of the secondary characters, like Rarity and Fluttershy. They brought some powerful moments to the story but those moments weren't worth the loss of focus that inherently comes with expanding your party's roster.

This story's key flaw is a lack of focus. The story is about Luna, Trixie, Twilight and Midnight. Everything should be through the lens of those characters. Each character's role in the story should be defined by how they advance the stories of the main characters. If you were to revise this story, taken as a whole, that's where I'd advise you to start.

It's tragic that the good takes away from the great, but it does.

"This story's key flaw is a lack of focus" I think that sums up everything I see as a problem with this story myself. So yes. I liked the moments when I got to delve into Manna's character, but maybe it happened to little and maybe she didn't have any other redeeming qualities like other characters. I would have loved to get to know her better.

Spoiler

Show

Now that all said, that is all speculation based off my own desire to push myself and my writing to it's greatest possible potential. Very few stories get rated according to this standard. This story was certainly good and I enjoyed reading it hugely. Midnight is an absolutely fantastic villain, and the moments when she was really on stage, especially her story, were transcendent.

Thanks! I'm really glad to hear you liked Midnight. I've always been a sucker for great villains and I really wanted her to be great. I hate when the villain falls short, and I'd have felt terrible about it especially because she was originally based on Joseph Curwen from The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, who may in fact be my favorite villain. Big shoes to fill.

Spoiler

Show

And further, taking into account the limitations of the writing format - including that this is essentially a first draft! - then it's marvellous. You've been writing this story for nearly a year now and that deserves major props. Seeing a major project through to completion like this is an achievement anyone could be proud of, and I can see that you've learned a lot through all this.

And that, by far, is the most encouraging thing. I can say with perfect honesty that I'm immensely looking forwards to your next piece because if you can apply the lessons you've learned from this it's going to be amazing.

Wow, I'm overwhelmed. I haven't been feeling too great about this story after finishing it, it's good to hear you enjoyed it. I was afraid you'd hate it, to be honest Perhaps it's just because my mind can't quite grasp that it's over and is actively trying to persuade me to get on with a third part right away instead of writing a few other stories first. Ever impatient.

[TheAmishPirate]

Okay, let's see. Switch Twilight and Rarity. Rarity would be an Asari Adept, multiplayer-parlance, because stasis, warp and throw fit her style. Elegant, simple, and effective (except when it's not). Twilight on the other hand, would know the value of tech armor, taking her time with cover, and setting up biotic explosions wih herself and her squad.

Bu hey, I've had waaaay too much time with multiplayer and now you've engage my processes. Here we go.

Spoiler

Show

Rainbow Dash:*quite simply, vanguard. A flying tackle, that explodes on impact? Shockwaves? Fitness? Done. Low power loadout for repeated sonic rainbooms, and because dash doesn't need weapons; she takes out barns with her face!

Pinkie Pie: infiltrator (human). Code name Soirée, invisibility offers the best surprise party opportunities. Deadpool comic supplies the sniper rifle. Incinerate is like, the birthday cake candle lighting tool.

Applejack: least amount of thought put into it, but soldier. Give her a mattock for the solid feel of kick, and maybe a spike thrower with a bayonet so she can set spikes for fences, and thresh wheat (and behinds).

Fluttershy: human engineer for certain and for true. Overload is The Stare, kncocking down and incopacitating multiple targets, while Angel Bunny, her see drone, moves nimbly and silently around, shooting rockets.

Big Mac: Krogan Soldier. Called him Apple Bucker. Why? Because he's big, he's red, and he hits like a meat truck.

Spike: Drell vanguard, codenamed Majordomo. Different tactics than above, Biotic charge somewhat forsaken in exchange for pull (his message delivery system). Kind of a stretch, true. Ah well.

Angel Bunny: Salarian infiltrator. He pops up out of nowhere and hits with a crazy melee strike, Kung-pow-chicken style. Or Kung fu style. Are those both styles? Regardless, he's here, and I'd you don't have the carrot, he's got the stick.

Midnight: Turian Sentinel, codenamed Zero Hour. Much like her mother, packing armor, but with a faster recharge and the ability to take out all foes. She's a shocker, will knock you off your feet, this one.

Shimmer Snowflake: quarian infiltrator. Nice enough that enemies go "y'know, I'm not sure I wanna attack this one", able to go forever unseen when she wants to, and spends most of her time as medic. Also looks good in with with magenta trim.

Faithful Song: asari vanguard. She glomps with the force of ten thousand hugs, which becomes less of a joke and more terrifying when you do the math; if a hug has approximately one-half of a newton in force... Gregarious even by asari standards, she's always there to deliver a hug. Or a shotgun blast to the face.

Raz_Fox: Salarian infiltrator. Or engineer... The one with decoy. *Plays with enemy's head as much as he shoots them. Talks fast, thinks faster, and you can never be certain if you're talking to the right one. Or even if there are two in the first place.

Brazen Shield: Turian soldier. High-capacity assault rifle, and... That's it. No frills, just dependable, reliable firepower.

Starry Notions: Drell adept. Fragile, Agile, and green. Combat strategy involves doing stupid things so well the enemy can't decide between face palming or cursing their luck; terrible skill use results in lots of accidental(?) explosions with spontaneous bots of kungfu fighting.

Luna: human sentinel. Very straightforward, the princess of the night brings sound, passionate violence to her foes. Targets tend to get thrown around by the sound of her voice, o the thunderclaps that issue from her anger. Codenamed Senator.

Celestia: asari adept. Spec'd for throw, able to send opponents flying - possibly to the moon. Able to freeze supplicants merely by the sound of her authoritative voice (stasis) and capable of handling discord-level threats with relative aplomb.

A minor quibble, but wouldn't Faithful Song work better as a vanguard? For the high-speed-tackle-glomps o' doom? And she gets to keep the shotgun to boot. And while we're on the subject:

Amish Pirate: Krogan Infiltrator. Yes, his build and loadout make no logical sense. Yes, he is about as sneaky as a drawer full of cutlery. Yes, he uses that fancy sniper rifle as a club more often than not. But let me ask you this; who's got two thumbs, and all the rum on the battlefield? Thiiiiiis guyyyy! And at the end of the day, that might just be all the victory he needs.

[Anarion]

A minor quibble, but wouldn't Faithful Song work better as a vanguard? For the high-speed-tackle-glomps o' doom? And she gets to keep the shotgun to boot. And while we're on the subject:

Amish Pirate: Krogan Infiltrator. Yes, his build and loadout make no logical sense. Yes, he is about as sneaky as a drawer full of cutlery. Yes, he uses that fancy sniper rifle as a club more often than not. But let me ask you this; who's got two thumbs, and all the rum on the battlefield? Thiiiiiis guyyyy! And at the end of the day, that might just be all the victory he needs.

Krogan inflitrators work perfectly. Walk up, smash guard in face. When there aren't any more guards left, you have successfully infiltrated the facility.

Oh, right I should post something about ponies. Hmm, well time to wade into the AJ vs. Rainbow Dash subject. I would argue that AJ is pretty physically skilled. Most of her work is apple-bucking, but she's also lived a farm life since she was young (barring her very short stint in the city). I expect that Big Mac taught her to arm hoof wrestle properly and she obviously knows a bunch of rodeo events and has trained for those as well. So, when Rainbow wins the hoof wrestling contest, it does show that she has stronger front hoof strength because I would expect them to be equally skilled there. Considering that in that same episode we saw Applejack kick the strength test bell sky high, it's also pretty clear that Applejack has stronger back legs. This is consistent within the same episode, so I think it can be taken as fairly accurate.

On top of all that, Applejack has named her back legs, but not her front legs. Thus, she clearly trains those legs more. QED

[otakuryoga]

non-pony related but....

O DEAR GAWD i cannot get the image described in the last 2 panels out of my brain now

Spoiler

Show

[Nameless]

[off topic]
Something just happened.
I went to have my final meeting with my lecturer at uni before starting my second year essay. I'm now writing a 2500 word essay about Derpy Hooves.
[/off topic]

[MCerberus]

Oh my, the megaquote we've been missing for so long!



Also, yes it's now headcanon that Derpy wrote the Daring Do books.

[Kairaven]

I based the Daring Do books from my own archeological research.

[Gadora]

Well, ShelltoonTV released another icon pack, so there's an update to the Seekrit Pony Projekt.

Spoiler

Show

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Jg8wb.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9KKKz.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/KjRiq.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pteUs.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/o0V8z.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mUwFV.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/T9hVn.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EkuTB.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lVPd8.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/0GUM4.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cCNvw.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4mTcY.png[/IMG]

[MCerberus]

I based the Daring Do books from my own archeological research.

Other archeologists see a puzzle with no answer, while the answer is clearly in front of their eyes: muffins.

[erikun]

If you mean this sketch then from Lauren, then no that was drawn for a charity fundraiser for Japan and auctioned at $2151 dollars under the name Derpy. So its not an "original sketch" in the sense you probably meant and Lauren was one of the first to fall to the Derpy despite giving touching off Ditzy Doo.

Yep, that would be the one, hence my "seem to recall" part. I'd thought that was part of the show bible for some reason, so I guess I was way off.

[Anarion]

*Stumbles into thread.*
Ugh, why did I get involved in the Mass Effect 3 ending thread? Somebody, please slap me next time I do something that stupid. Not you Lich, I like all my life energy.

Meanwhile, have some Japanese pony Derpy discussion stuff (in English).