Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

[AgentPaper]

Destroy the creature they're attached to, or use bounce (cards like Unsummon, Vapor Snag and Unsummon that send things back to their owner's hand). Past that, you're out of luck, as far as I know. Blue and black don't really do artifact destruction, and straight-up permanent destruction is... I can't think of a colour that really fits into, since I'm tired and only Vindicate (white-black) comes to mind.

Permanent destruction is green, but even it doesn't do it that often.

[Fable Wright]

I've recently started playing Magic, and I was wondering, what are some blue or black cards that can destroy permanents, artifacts inclusive? A friend of mine has a Trepanation Blade and Runechanter's Pike in his deck, both of which I find pretty terrifying, and besides Cancel and Negate, there's not much I can do once they hit the field. While I know the rules, I'm pretty unfamiliar with the game, and I haven't been exposed to enough cards to know what would match that description in those colors.

There was one really old black card that allowed you to sacrifice two creatures to destroy one artifact, but that's pretty much it. As you've picked up on, Blue and Black can't really destroy artifacts or enchantments. However, they can still deal with them. Black has a lot of effects that cause you to look at a player's hand, pick a card with some restriction, and force them to discard it. The best ones I'd recommend are Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress, though neither are Standard right now. Blue can counter or bounce the artifacts, but not destroy them once they're in play. Into the Roil or Disperse is your way to go with that route, plus mana leak to finally deal with it. Though, your best option to deal with the two are to just bounce/destroy the creature equipped to the artifacts and let the extra damage amount to nothing.

[Callos_DeTerran]

The full spoiler is out! Have fun looking at the cards!

Where at? Can't find it personally.

[Fable Wright]

Where at? Can't find it personally.

The main site.

[dgnslyr]

Well, I've got those two counterspells to hopefully catch it when it comes in play, and a pair of both Doom Blade and Terror to kill anything that picks it up, but what to do about an Invisible Stalker? A red deck could roast the entire field, and white could do likewise, but the best my blue/black deck can do is put it to Sleep for a turn, because everything else is targeted.

Also, Trepanation Blade is bad? Seeing it stab through my deck and eat both a fifth of it in one fell swoop on a lucky swing seems pretty terrifying, though my deck is unusually small, because out of the box it only had 40 cards, I've yet to actually buy any more cards, and my YGO instincts tell me a smaller deck is better, even though the every indication seems otherwise in the case of Magic.

[Sith_Happens]

Also, Trepanation Blade is bad? Seeing it stab through my deck and eat both a fifth of it in one fell swoop on a lucky swing seems pretty terrifying, though my deck is unusually small, because out of the box it only had 40 cards, I've yet to actually buy any more cards, and my YGO instincts tell me a smaller deck is better, even though the every indication seems otherwise in the case of Magic.

The same is true for Magic, except that the minimum is 60 cards.

EDIT: Tepanation Blade is definitely something to behold "on a lucky swing," but that's the stinger. Against a typical 60 card deck with 22-24 lands, it will only hit two to three cards per swing on average.

[tgva8889]

Congratulations, you've discovered why Invisible Stalker is a miserable card to play against!

U/B as a color combination has few ways to deal with artifacts. There are a few, but they are rare and if you are playing Standard, they are limited to countermagic. You can temporarily answer them with bounce effects, but besides that you're out of luck.

Since 40-card minimum deck is actually illegal in constructed Magic, you should probably upgrade that to the minimum 60 at the first possible opportunity. And it is still correct to play the minimum cards. Trepanation Blade isn't a particularly fearsome card in the decking department, as you are going to die to damage long before you will ever have to be afraid of it milling you out. It unfortunately doesn't usually generate enough extra damage for its cost, though it can deal some damage.

[Fable Wright]

Well, I've got those two counterspells to hopefully catch it when it comes in play, and a pair of both Doom Blade and Terror to kill anything that picks it up, but what to do about an Invisible Stalker? A red deck could roast the entire field, and white could do likewise, but the best my blue/black deck can do is put it to Sleep for a turn, because everything else is targeted.

Also, Trepanation Blade is bad? Seeing it stab through my deck and eat both a fifth of it in one fell swoop on a lucky swing seems pretty terrifying, though my deck is unusually small, because out of the box it only had 40 cards, I've yet to actually buy any more cards, and my YGO instincts tell me a smaller deck is better, even though the every indication seems otherwise in the case of Magic.

My answer: Invest in Sacrifice removal. Barter in Blood from Avacyn Restored, Geth's Verdict from New Phyrexia, possibly Tribute to Hunger from Innistrad, and Inquisition of Kozilek (if you went for pre-emptively getting rid of Stalker and the equipment) are all decent answers. Also? Three removal spells is nowhere near enough. My Zombie deck has 12 removal cards to deal with things like equips, and my Vampire deck has at least 14 (depending on whether or not you count Deathtouch as removal). I personally wouldn't recommend going below 8 or 9.

[Lord Seth]

There was one really old black card that allowed you to sacrifice two creatures to destroy one artifact, but that's pretty much it.

If you're referring to Gate to Phyrexia, that involves sacrificing one creature for one artifact. Still kind of weak though.

Blue can counter or bounce the artifacts, but not destroy them once they're in play.

Energy Flux begs to differ.

Off that note, anyone happen to know of any sites that have some statistics on the most commonly played cards in formats, Legacy in particular? I can find places that say how common deck types are, or how common cards are within the deck types, but not the cards overall.

[tgva8889]

Actually, Energy Flux fails to differ, because it destroys nothing. It is, in fact, a true statement that Blue cannot destroy artifacts. Well, unless they are red, a Forest or Mountain, a creature, or attempting to destroy one of your lands.

Blue does have answers to artifacts besides bouncing and countering. For example, you could steal one.

[IthilanorStPete]

More relevantly, Energy Flux is an old card before the modern color pie really took shape. It's not a card they'd print today.
Sidenote: what color do you think it would be in today? I'd think white, since it's a taxing effect and they get some artifact hate.

[Androgeus]

Sidenote: what color do you think it would be in today? I'd think white, since it's a taxing effect and they get some artifact hate.

I think you might be right.

[Cogwheel]

I think you might be right.

I still find the timing of Kataki's printing absolutely hilarious. HELLO THERE MIRRODIN.

[Androgeus]

I still find the timing of Kataki's printing absolutely hilarious. HELLO THERE MIRRODIN.

It's almost as if they planned it.

[Cogwheel]

It's almost as if they planned it.

Oh, I know they did, but there's a certain amount of style to that kind of sheer spite.

[IthilanorStPete]

Oh, I know they did, but there's a certain amount of style to that kind of sheer spite.

By the time Kataki was printed, Affinity had been dominating tournaments for a while; it was aimed at that specifically. If Affinity hadn't been as dominant as it was, they wouldn't have printed an artifact hoser that strong.

[Lord Seth]

Actually, Energy Flux fails to differ, because it destroys nothing.

That's absolutely ridiculous semantics and you know it.

[MammonAzrael]

That's absolutely ridiculous semantics and you know it.

But those semantics are crucial in Magic. It couldn't deal with Blightsteel Colossus if it destroyed it. And Energy Flux grants additional text to the artifacts, so really they're the ones demanding the extra mana!

The cards you're looking for are Trygon Predator, Bant Charm, and Crosis's Charm (technically all blue cards).

[Callos_DeTerran]

So I had an entertaining idea for a deck while looking over the full spoiler, and wanted to get people's thoughts on it. It's mostly for fun, but I wouldn't mind advice on how to make it more competitive. It's very...aggressive.

Defense of Thraben

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Creatures:

x2 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
x2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
x4 Riot Ringleader
x4 Champion of the Parish
x4 Elite Vanguard
x2 Thraben Valiant


Spells, Artifacts, and Etc.:
x4 Burn at the Stake
x2 Bonfire of the Damned
x2 Thunderous Wrath
x4 Gather the Townsfolk
x2 Gallows at Willow Hill
x4 Thatcher Revolt

Lands:
x4 Clifftop Retreat
x2 Slayer's Stronghold
x8 Plains
x10 Mountains

Side Board:
x4 Burning Oil
x4 Righteous Blow
x4 Devout Chaplain
x3 Elite Inquisiter

The tactics for the deck are amazingly simplistic. Small creatures sneak in for extra damage (getting out as many as possible though) with a hopeful turn 5 Burn at the Stake to finish off the enemy by tapping 5+ creatures. Should the game go on longer, it still has burn and a weenie army to hold out until Gisela can hit the field and hopefully turn the table. Thoughts? Advice?

I'm beginning to think I'm overly fond of the peasants of the Innistrad setting, I keep trying to make a torch & pitchfork deck...you have no idea how badly I want to use Blazing Torch and Sharpened Pitchfork, but they just don't seem that useful.

[Suedars]

So White, Black, and Red all get common removal that hits for 2, and there's a ton of 2 power guys in this set. It seems like having 3 toughness is going to be as good in AVR limited as it was in Zendikar.

[tgva8889]

That's absolutely ridiculous semantics and you know it.

Except that it's not. If my opponent plays a Sword of Feast and Famine, say, and attaches it to their Invisible Stalker, and I play Energy Flux, I'm not actually solving any problems. Energy Flux is not Shatter, it will never be Shatter, and it doesn't do the same thing as Shatter.

Energy Flux doesn't actually destroy anything. It does do something against artifacts, but it isn't Ancient Grudge, you can't just slot it in against any deck with artifacts in it and expect it to do something. The card is very different from what we were discussing, so my comment that it fails to destroy artifacts and that blue, as a whole, fails to do so by itself is still true.

[Lord Seth]

Except that it's not.

Yes it is. It's ridiculous semantics--particularly in the context that was being discussed--to say that Energy Flux doesn't actually destroy artifacts because they're technically being sacrificed.

The card is very different from what we were discussing, so my comment that it fails to destroy artifacts and that blue, as a whole, fails to do so by itself is still true.

The claim wasn't that Blue as a whole can't. The claim was that Blue can't, period. Which is incorrect due to Energy Flux.

[Nightson]

Yes it is. It's ridiculous semantics--particularly in the context that was being discussed--to say that Energy Flux doesn't actually destroy artifacts because they're technically being sacrificed.

I think it's more a claim that Energy Flux doesn't destroy artifacts because the controller can pay the 2 upkeep.

[tgva8889]

Yes it is. It's ridiculous semantics--particularly in the context that was being discussed--to say that Energy Flux doesn't actually destroy artifacts because they're technically being sacrificed.

The claim wasn't that Blue as a whole can't. The claim was that Blue can't, period. Which is incorrect due to Energy Flux.

You know that there's no difference between the statement "Blue as a whole can't destroy artifacts" and "Blue can't destroy artifacts, period" right? They mean literally the same thing.

Energy Flux still doesn't destroy artifacts. It isn't an answer to artifacts. It is an answer to specific situations involving artifacts, but it is not, in and of itself, an answer to artifacts in general.

[Mystic Muse]

My brother wants me to male him a white/Green humans deck for him for FNM. I've got mayor ov avabruck and Hamlet captains and was wondering what other cards he could reasonably use to boost his creatures. He's also told me that he really doesn't want to use anything that will rotate out in October, and he'd like everythinf to cost 3 mana or less if he can manage it.

Naturally, I'm considering Mikaeus and will throw in a few Gavony townships. I think he'd be open to higher costing stuff so long as he believes he can reasonably get it out in a game.

[tgva8889]

It sounds like you've already got enough ways to pump up your Humans. Mayor, Hamlet Captain, and Mikaeus is plenty, and Gavony Township is what you want in any GW deck.

If he argues against Township, you should convince him that he will invariably get into positions where he will draw more than 4 lands, and in those cases Township allows him to straight up win the game. Mikaeus doesn't actually cost more than 3, so he should be fine with him.

I suggest Champion of the Parish and Gather the Townsfolk for sure.

[Duos]

Champion of the Parish is great for what you want in human tribal.

Gather the Townsfolk is good too (turn one Champion followed by turn two Gather is pretty brutal), as is Doomed Traveler.

As far as creature boosters go, Honor of the Pure is good, since nearly all of your creatures will be white, aside from the captains and the mayors. Travel Preparations is an alright card.

When Avacyn Restored is releads, there's some other cards you might want to pick up (Spoilered because some people don't want to see spoilers):

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Champion of Lambholt seems like it will work excellently. Goldnight Commander will be an excellent pseudo-overrun effect, and has good synergy with the Champion. Cavern of Souls will be good since you can name humans and it will fix your mana wonderfully.

[LansXero]

My brother wants me to male him a white/Green humans deck for him for FNM. I've got mayor ov avabruck and Hamlet captains and was wondering what other cards he could reasonably use to boost his creatures. He's also told me that he really doesn't want to use anything that will rotate out in October, and he'd like everythinf to cost 3 mana or less if he can manage it.

Naturally, I'm considering Mikaeus and will throw in a few Gavony townships. I think he'd be open to higher costing stuff so long as he believes he can reasonably get it out in a game.

Mikaeus is bad. Really, really bad. He is slow, has no protection and tends to be a dead topdeck.

if he isnt set into spending money in stuff thats about to rotate, Id suggest picking up a Hold the Line event deck; it has good value and brings in some staple human creatures like a champion of the parish, 2 mirran crusaders and fiend hunters. As for ways to boost your creatures, there is always adaptative automaton, and the cheap enchant that pacifys non-humans and boosts humans.

[IthilanorStPete]

So here's an idea I've been tossing around in my head for post-AVR standard: some kind of WUBR control deck with planeswalkers and Lingering Souls, kind of a mix between Chapin-style Grixis and the Esper Superfriends deck that's been around. There's a lot of nice graveyard synergy to take advantage of - Tibalt's rather nice if you get him out on turn 2, and discard flashback cards, or possibly even Unburial Rites targets. I have no idea which way you would want to build it colors-wise, though; WUBr really limits Tibalt, WBRu means you can't really rely on countermagic or Think Twice/Forbidden Alchemy, WURb rules out Liliana and makes flashing back Lingering Souls difficult, and UBRw has issues casting Lingering Souls and getting Wrath effects. Any thoughts?

[IthilanorStPete]

So here's an idea I've been tossing around in my head for post-AVR standard: some kind of WUBR control deck with planeswalkers and Lingering Souls, kind of a mix between Chapin-style Grixis and the Esper Superfriends deck that's been around. There's a lot of nice graveyard synergy to take advantage of - Tibalt's rather nice if you get him out on turn 2, and discard flashback cards, or possibly even Unburial Rites targets. I have no idea which way you would want to build it colors-wise, though; WUBr really limits Tibalt, WBRu means you can't really rely on countermagic or Think Twice/Forbidden Alchemy, WURb rules out Liliana and makes flashing back Lingering Souls difficult, and UBRw has issues casting Lingering Souls and getting Wrath effects. Any thoughts?