Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

[Binks]

Dealing damage as a cost kind of works, but costs have to be something that you can pay or not pay. "Deal 3 damage to a creature" is only sort of payable, and is really abusive as a cost since you can do it as many times as you want, for free. This is why the interaction between animated Planeswalkers and Experiment Kraj or Quicksilver Elemental is so broken.

Deal 3 damage to target creature: You gain 1 poison counter.

. As long as the effect is painful enough you're probably not going to want to pay the cost too many times. Though I suppose something like that could be broken with sundial and co, but that's part of the fun IMHO.

And yeah, the Kraj + Planeswalkers thing has already been fixed in the comprehensive rules. 112.5 says basically you can use loyalty abilities of any permanent you control on your turn during your main phase when the stack is clear "but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn".

[tgva8889]

You can't target in costs. Also, that design is incredibly unintuitive, because you're paying a benefit to get a cost. It's really not something that would ever see print.

Because he doesn't have protection from everything, for starters. Also, he can't be sneaked into play with some cards, like Natural Order or Tinker. Nor can he be reanimated without something like Stifle.

I suppose. But if you're going to cheat something into play, you're going to cheat Emrakul whenever he is an option. There's no other reason to cheat in anything else.

[Androgeus]

Jesus, Maro sure likes answering your questions tgva.

[tgva8889]

I ask questions that warrant short answers, and I ask them all at once.

[memnarch]

Jesus, Maro sure likes answering your questions tgva.

What's this? Where can I read?

[Narkis]

Questions? What questions?

[Suedars]

What's this? Where can I read?

MaRo's tumblr. He does a bunch of q&a there. I don't have a link but you can probably find it on google.

[Silverlich]

So, rules question: If I have Leyline of the Void and Undead Alchemist, and my opponent gets Emrakul milled, what happens? Can I choose what order the effects trigger?

[Androgeus]

What's this? Where can I read?

Questions? What questions?

MArk Rosewater has a tumbler where he answer loads of questions a day

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/

[Narkis]

No effects will trigger if you have a leyline, since the cards never end up in the graveyard.

Now, if you didn't have the leyline, both effects would have triggered, and the order they resolved would depend on whose turn it is. Triggers belonging to the active player go to the stack first, so if this happened on your turn the alchemist trigger would go first, and the emrakul trigger would go on top of it. On resolution the opponent's graveyard would get shuffled into his library, including Emrakul, and then you'd get your zombie token. And if it was his turn, the order would be reversed, so you'd get a zombie and exile Emrakul first, and then your opponent would shuffle the rest of his graveyard to the library.

[Ninjaman]

Rules question:
I have a diregraf captain and 5 2/2 zombies, an effect deal 2 damage to all of them, the diregraf dies, and the rest die too when the +1/+1 form the captain disapears. Now for the question, does the the captain's 3rd ability trigger and deal 5 damage, or is the captain removed first, and because of that the ability doesn't trigger.

[Bucky]

The captain's life drain doesn't trigger, obviously. It's not possible to have only part of the captain on the battlefield.

[Fable Wright]

Rules question:
I have a diregraf captain and 5 2/2 zombies, an effect deal 2 damage to all of them, the diregraf dies, and the rest die too when the +1/+1 form the captain disapears. Now for the question, does the the captain's 3rd ability trigger and deal 5 damage, or is the captain removed first, and because of that the ability doesn't trigger.

The captain is no longer in play, so the ability will not trigger.
And now it's official- fire is the best way to kill zombies.

[Androgeus]

And now it's official- fire is the best way to kill zombies.

unless they have two captains

[Narkis]

All you need is a bigger fire.

[flabort]

All you need is a bigger fire.

3 captains. Of course, then, 2 fires is enough to solve that...

[arguskos]

3 captains. Of course, then, 2 fires is enough to solve that...

You want to talk fire? Let's talk fire.

[Greensleeves]

What is people's opinion on Gather the Townsfolk for a white human deck? Not intended to be terribly competitive, nor is it looking as though it'll even be standard or modern legal. (Reason for that is that the gaming soc at my college recently held a dirt cheap Scourge draft where I got two Daru Warchief and two Wing Shards to mention some goodies.)

If nothing else, Gather the Townsfolk has nice synergy with Champion of the Parish.

Also, I'm considering trading a Grafdigger's Cage for Thalia. Good or bad trade? Is it an equivalent trade?

[Lord Seth]

What is people's opinion on Gather the Townsfolk for a white human deck?

It's pretty powerful, and is run in a fair amount of competitive Standard decks (according to Star City Games, nearly 40% of the top blue/white human decks run it). I think the main reason it's not even more popular is because of its anti-synergy with Thalia.

Also, I'm considering trading a Grafdigger's Cage for Thalia. Good or bad trade? Is it an equivalent trade?

Based on how much they cost at an online site, they look to be worth about the same.

[Sith_Happens]

So after the rather meager response in the previous thread, I think I'll give this whole "asking for advice on my decks" thing another try. This time I'll take it one deck at a time, starting with GR Madness.

Here's what I have now:

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Creatures (22):
x4 Wild Mongrel
x3 Razormane Masticore
x4 Basking Rootwala
x4 Arrogant Wurm
x4 Anger
x3 Eternal Witness

Non-Creature Spells (18):
x3 Lightning Axe
x4 Fiery Temper
x3 Dolmen Gate
x3 Howling Mine
x3 Rites of Flourishing
x2 Burning Wish

Lands (20):
x4 Stomping Ground
x4 Rootbound Crag
x6 Forest
x6 Mountain

Sideboard:
x2 Feldon's Cane
x3 Pyroclasm
Savage Twister
Shatterstorm
Tranquility
Anarchy
Flashfires
Boiling Seas
Shivan Meteor
x3 Hull Breach

Here's what I've figured out so far to do with it:

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Creatures (22):
x4 Wild Mongrel
x3 Razormane Masticore
x4 Basking Rootwala
x4 Arrogant Wurm
x4 Anger
x3 Eternal Witness

Non-Creature Spells (16):
x3 Lightning Axe
x4 Fiery Temper
x4 Faithless Looting
x3 Howling Mine
x2 Burning Wish

Lands (22):
x4 Wooded Foothills
x4 Stomping Ground
x4 Rootbound Crag
x5 Forest
x5 Mountain

Sideboard:
x2 Feldon's Cane
x3 Pyroclasm
Savage Twister
Shattering Spree
Tranquility
Anarchy
Flashfires
Boiling Seas
Shivan Meteor
x3 Hull Breach

Summary of changes:

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Main Deck:
-3 Dolmen Gate
-3 Rites of Flourishing
-1 Forest
-1 Mountain
+4 Faithless Looting
+4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
-1 Shatterstorm
+1 Shattering Spree

Hopefully that by itself should (mostly) take care of the deck's two main problems:
1. Mana/color screw.
2. Not enough early-game discard engines.

Any suggestions on where to go from there? Right now I'm concerned firstly with consistency and secondly with adding a little more oomph. I especially want to fit Roar of the Wurm in somehow (since that one should have been in from the start), and am weighing the benefits of replacing the Eternal Witnesses with Green Sun's Zenith (to tutor out Mongrels and Rootwalas).

I play casual only, so card age*/legality and metagame concerns are not really issues for me.


* For personal/aesthetic reasons, I would like to keep things Odyssey block or later whenever possible.

[Frankelshtein]

So I took my wonky Modern deck to my LGS this past Thursday to play in a small event. I fully expected to lose every game of every match, which I was fine with. I had a silly deck, and I was there to have fun. Well, I somehow ended up going 2-1, "winning" the event (Due to an odd number of players, it ended in a four-way tie). While I did get lucky draws and had some favorable matchups, I was floored by how well I did. My opponents were running well-established decks versus my inconsistant turn-6-at-the-earliest combo deck, yet somehow I managed to eke out some victories. I apologize if this is coming off as me bragging, but I'm quite happy with how things turned out

Anyway, I wanted to write out a quick "tournament report", if only to illustrate exactly how the deck works and the entertaining results of playing with it.

Note: The following accounts are all from memory, and are likely to have some inaccuracies. I did my best to remember, though, and defenitely got the general gist of how each game went.

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Round 1: U/W Urzatron

This guy stomped me. He simply had a faster combo which I had no answers for. We had also played a few practice games before the even started, so he knew that he could reanimate Iona naming black, and there was nothing I could do about it. There was nothing in my meager sideboard (which consisted of 15 cards hastily pulled from my trade binder) that I could use, and he was able to resolve a turn 5 Iona both games. There's only so much that Ghostly Prison can do against someone with Urzatron up and running

Round 2: Martyr-Proc

Game 1: This fellow had only seen a bit of my deck, so he didn't know what to expect. He had his life total nice and high, and was confidently swinging in with a big Serra Ascendant each turn as I played some of my preliminary enchantments. He raised an eyebrow when I played Phyrexian Unlife, but didn't seem all worried as his Ascendant brought me to 0 and him into the low 50's. The next turn I lost my life from Phyrexian Arena and Dark Tutelage, then tapped out to play Repay in Kind. He read it and we were on to the second game.

Game 2: He had a much more aggressive start this time around, using Ranger of Eos to fetch more Serra Ascendants while keeping his life total just a smidgen above 30. I used an Ad Nauseum at 2 with Phyrexian Unlife in play, and he had Disenchant. Unlife is destroyed, and I'm at 0. Next game.

Game 3: As he assembles his force and starts chipping away at my life, I'm able to get out a quick Ghostly Prison which stalls him long enough for me to tutor up Greater Auramancy and Phyrexian Unlife. By this point he has a board full of creatures, with a flipped Chalice of Life to boot. My memory at this point is a bit inconsistant, but I believe he hadn't attacked for the last few turns, waiting for his chalice to put me at zero on his turn so he could swing for lethal before I could cast Repay. I resolve an Ad Nauseum, dragging my life total down into the negative fourties while he remained above 50 (I would have probably gone lower, but there was an odd exchange between the two of us which ended with my life total not as low as I wanted it. It didn't end up being important, though). He seems largely unconcerned, seeing as I'm still at least a turn away from having the mana fir Repay. However, I'm able to resolve Death's Shadow+Rite of Consumption twice, securing the game and match.

I was initially surprised with how good of a matchup Martyr-Proc would be for me, but it seems obvious in retrospect. I can usually survive until at least turn 7, and my win condition completely nullifies Martyr-Proc's massive amounts of lifegain. Throw in a lack of disruption, and my deck has a very robust matchup.

Round 3: U/R Storm

Due to a matchmaking quirk, I ended up facing someone currently 2-0. Given his record and how lucky I had been with my matchup the round before, I didn't have very high hopes for this match. Still, I was more than happy enough with my single match win. Losing here would be fine, I was simply content that the deck functioned to some extent.

Game 1: I knew that my opponent was running Empty the Warrens as one of his win conditions, so I kept a hand with Ghostly Prison and little else. I attempt to play the Prison on turn 3, but he Remands it. He then starts to go off, but doesn't draw into Grapeshot or Gifts Ungiven, so he is forced to use Empty the Warrens, which I respond to with the Prison. At this point, we're both digging for our combo pieces, him using cantrips for Gifts or Grapeshot, and me using Phyrexian Arena and various tutors for Unlife and Ad Nauseum. I finally get an Ad Nauseum, and manage to resolve it. He's actually able to Remand Rite of Consumption three times, and Repay in Kind twice, but I'm eventually able to make a Repay stick.

Game 2: I admit, I was feeling a bit giddy at this point. I could actually win! I managed to keep myself in check, bearing in mind that I had only won the last game because my opponent hadn't drawn into any of the cards he could have used. Remembering that I had a bit Storm hate in my meager sideboard, I took out my three Wall of Omens in favor of two Ethersworn Canonists and a single Leyline of Sanctity. The game began, and I kept a solid hand with a Prison, an Unlife, and two Ad Nauseums. Turn 3 I get a very lucky topdeck of the Leyline. Wary of him going off early, I play Unlife. He plays Gifts, looking to set a high enough storm count that he can break through Unlife (or so I'd assume). The next turn, I put down the Leyline, which he responds to by making fourtysomething goblins. I'm able to play the Ghostly Prison next turn temporarily nullifying the threat of his creatures. I play an Ad Nauseum, which he Dispels as expected. The next turn a topdecked Ethersworn Canonist quashes his plan to generate enough mana to force through his goblin horde. The second Ad Nauseum goes through, and I draw a perilously large amount of my deck, wanting to nab a card for every contingency. After a few Remands, I resolve a Repay in Kind. Victory!

So, yeah. I manage to come out on top mostly due to luck and others not knowing how the deck works. I do think the deck worked out better than I thought it would (though not by much), and I'm defenitely going to improve it, starting with a real sideboard. The sheer novelty of winning through driving yourself into the negatives doesn't look like it'll wear off any time soon. It's a blast to play, and apparently enjoyable to play against. All of my opponents found it amusing, and even the Storm player who I had gotten incredibly lucky against admitted that he was fine losing to such a deck.

This has become significantly longer than I had intended, so I'm going to cut myself off before I ramble further. I just had a great time with a fun deck, and felt like sharing.

Oh, and on a related note, what are some good answers to Urzatron? I was thinking that Graffdigger's Cage might work, though it shuts down my tutors. I'm also thinking I should perhaps run some Path to Exiles in the mainboard, though they don't work versus Emrakul.

[Fable Wright]

The best answer to tron is either to exile their hands (possibly via Identity Crisis, if you can resolve it) or by destroying their mana base. Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon is the best way to do this, but Rain of Tears is something in B/W that can get rid of the one tron land they only have a single copy of on the field. Other than that, PtE can irritate them if they don't counter it, as it permanently removes their threats, but that's about all I have for it.

[Bucky]

The best answer to tron is either to exile their hands (possibly via Identity Crisis, if you can resolve it) or by destroying their mana base.

Winning faster is also an option, of course.

[Ninjaman]

How does this deck look?

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Lands: 24
8xIsland (got all)
10xSwamp (got all)
2xEvolving wilds (got all, should i dumb them for 2 swamps?)
4xDrowned catacomb (got 2)

Creatures:18
4xBlack cat (got all)
4xDiregraf ghoul (got 2)
4xDiregraf captain (got all)
2xCemetery reaper (got all)
2xUnbreathing horde (got 1)
2xGeralf's messenger (got 1)

Sorceries:6
2xArmy of the damned (got 1)
2xMoan of the unhallowed (got all)
2xGhoulcaller's chant (got all)

Instants:4
4xGo for the throat (got 1)
4xTragic slip (got 3)

Enchantments:4
2xEndless ranks of dead (got 1)
2xCall to the kindred (got 1)

I got room for 4 more, phyrexian chrusader is good but really expensive money wise.

Sideboard:
4xDoom blade (shall i go 2:2 on these and go for the throat?)
1xSever the bloodline (maybe more?)
10 other

[Duos]

How does this deck look?

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Lands: 24
8xIsland (got all)
10xSwamp (got all)
2xEvolving wilds (got all, should i dumb them for 2 swamps?)
4xDrowned catacomb (got 2)

Creatures:18
4xBlack cat (got all)
4xDiregraf ghoul (got 2)
4xDiregraf captain (got all)
2xCemetery reaper (got all)
2xUnbreathing horde (got 1)
2xGeralf's messenger (got 1)

Sorceries:6
2xArmy of the damned (got 1)
2xMoan of the unhallowed (got all)
2xGhoulcaller's chant (got all)

Instants:4
4xGo for the throat (got 1)
4xTragic slip (got 3)

Enchantments:4
2xEndless ranks of dead (got 1)
2xCall to the kindred (got 1)

I got room for 4 more, phyrexian chrusader is good but really expensive money wise.

Sideboard:
4xDoom blade (shall i go 2:2 on these and go for the throat?)
1xSever the bloodline (maybe more?)
10 other

Army of the Damned, Endless Ranks of the Dead, and Call to the Kindred are all really meh. I'd play Phantasmal Image and Vapor Snags instead. More removal would probably be nice, and I'd play Gravecrawler instead of Black Cat. Also, a few Mortarpods would be a nice bit of reach.

[Lord Seth]

Lands: 24
8xIsland (got all)
10xSwamp (got all)
2xEvolving wilds (got all, should i dumb them for 2 swamps?)
4xDrowned catacomb (got 2)

If you're going to replace the Evolving Wilds with anything, I'd recommend Darkslick Shores. Evolving Wilds will always make the land come into play tapped, whereas Darkslick Shores will only be tapped if there's already three lands in play, and can produce mana of either color (whereas Evolving Wilds only gives you a land that can produce mana of one color). Ignoring the negligible advantage of deck thinning, Darkslick Shores is essentially strictly better than Evolving Wilds for your deck.

[Bucky]

How does this deck look?

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Lands: 24
8xIsland (got all)
10xSwamp (got all)
2xEvolving wilds (got all, should i dumb them for 2 swamps?)
4xDrowned catacomb (got 2)

Creatures:18
4xBlack cat (got all)
4xDiregraf ghoul (got 2)
4xDiregraf captain (got all)
2xCemetery reaper (got all)
2xUnbreathing horde (got 1)
2xGeralf's messenger (got 1)

Sorceries:6
2xArmy of the damned (got 1)
2xMoan of the unhallowed (got all)
2xGhoulcaller's chant (got all)

Instants:4
4xGo for the throat (got 1)
4xTragic slip (got 3)

Enchantments:4
2xEndless ranks of dead (got 1)
2xCall to the kindred (got 1)

I got room for 4 more, phyrexian chrusader is good but really expensive money wise.

Sideboard:
4xDoom blade (shall i go 2:2 on these and go for the throat?)
1xSever the bloodline (maybe more?)
10 other

Instead of cutting Evolving Wilds for swamps, you might want to cut Islands. You aren't using heavy blue, and Geralf's Messanger means you really want your second potential blue source to be able to make black mana.

Also, splitting Doom blade and Go for the Throat in the sideboard is a good idea; there are times when you only want one of the two in your deck.

[Ninjaman]

Army of the Damned, Endless Ranks of the Dead, and Call to the Kindred are all really meh. I'd play Phantasmal Image and Vapor Snags instead. More removal would probably be nice, and I'd play Gravecrawler instead of Black Cat. Also, a few Mortarpods would be a nice bit of reach.

Okay. But phantasmal images and gravecrawler are really expensive, but i will look into it. And just to be sure it is Phantasmal Image i want not: Evil twin, Cryptoplasm, Clone, Phyrexian metamorph.

If you're going to replace the Evolving Wilds with anything, I'd recommend Darkslick Shores. Evolving Wilds will always make the land come into play tapped, whereas Darkslick Shores will only be tapped if there's already three lands in play, and can produce mana of either color (whereas Evolving Wilds only gives you a land that can produce mana of one color). Ignoring the negligible advantage of deck thinning, Darkslick Shores is essentially strictly better than Evolving Wilds for your deck.

Okay, i will look into that.

Instead of cutting Evolving Wilds for swamps, you might want to cut Islands. You aren't using heavy blue, and Geralf's Messanger means you really want your second potential blue source to be able to make black mana.

Also, splitting Doom blade and Go for the Throat in the sideboard is a good idea; there are times when you only want one of the two in your deck.

How many islands do i need? And when you say splitting do you mean 2:2 in the deck or 4 Go for the throat in the deck and 4 doom blade outside?

Is this better?

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Lands: 24
8xIsland (got all)
10xSwamp (got all)
2xDarkslick shores (got none)
4xDrowned catacomb (got 2)

Creatures:18
4xGravecrawler (got none)
4xDiregraf ghoul (got 2)
4xDiregraf captain (got all)
2xCemetery reaper (got all)
2xUnbreathing horde (got 1)
2xGeralf's messenger (got 1)

Sorceries:4
2xMoan of the unhallowed (got all)
2xGhoulcaller's chant (got all)

Instants:12
4xGo for the throat (got 1)
4xTragic slip (got 3)
4xVapor snag (got none)

Artifacts:2
2xMortarpod

That is 60, any suggestions for changes?

Sideboard:
4xDoom blade (shall i go 2:2 on these and go for the throat?)
1xSever the bloodline (maybe more?)
10 other, any ideas?

[9mm]

So I've been working on a deck; and it's in the last throes of its final tuning.

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Land:
4 Breeding Pool (G/U)
4 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor (G/U)
4 Island
4 Woodland Cemetery (G/B)
Creature
4 Deranged Assistant
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Splinterfright
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant
4 Dream Twist
3 Naturalize
4 Thought Scour
Sorcery
4 Mulch
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Unburial Rites
Artifacts
2 Runechanter’s Pike
Sideboard:
TBD

Known issues. Lack of access to white mana for unburial flashback. I'm really unsure what lands to swap in and out here.

Under consideration: -1 delver, kessig, and splinterfirght for +3 snapcaster mages not enough real targets that didn't have flashback already to be worth it.

Changelog: replaced Breeding pools with Arcane sanctum. they're slower than the pools but as a turn 3+ drop not that bad and fix my missing white problem. overall the deck itself is humming pretty decently: now time to develop the side board.

Thoughts?

[Fable Wright]

So I've been working on a deck; and it's in the last throes of its final tuning.

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Land:
4 Breeding Pool (G/U)
4 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor (G/U)
4 Island
4 Woodland Cemetery (G/B)
Creature
4 Deranged Assistant
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Splinterfright
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant
4 Dream Twist
3 Naturalize
4 Thought Scour
Sorcery
4 Mulch
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Unburial Rites
Artifacts
2 Runechanter’s Pike
Sideboard:
TBD

Known issues. Lack of access to white mana for unburial flashback. I'm really unsure what lands to swap in and out here.

Under consideration: - 1 delver, kessig, and splinterfirght for +3 snapcaster mages

Thoughts?

...I have no idea what to say to this deck. First, it looks like you're trying to have a large creature base while running a bunch of delver support cards, which doesn't seem to work. I would take out the Deranged Assistants, Kessig Cage-Breakers, and Splinterfrights because you honestly don't have that many creatures in the graveyard. Then I might add in Nimble Mongoose, Snapcaster Mages, and a set of Unearths. And then take out the Unburial Rites and Sever the Bloodlines for something useful, like perhaps Darkblast.