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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ruby34 View Post
    The sideboard is my last concern, so I'll deal with it after I assemble my deck.
    Before I forget... put a Nihil Spellbomb in the sideboard. It's generally handy to have access to one in any black deck in any relevant format.
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  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

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    Lands: 22
    14xSwamp
    4xDarkslick shores
    4xDrowned catacomb

    Creatures:18
    4xGravecrawler
    4xDiregraf ghoul
    4xDiregraf captain
    2xCemetery reaper
    2xUnbreathing horde
    2xGeralf's messenger

    Sorceries:4
    2xMoan of the unhallowed
    2xGhoulcaller's chant

    Instants:12
    2xGo for the throat
    2xDoom blade
    4xTragic slip
    4xVapor snag

    Artifacts:4
    4xMortarpod

    That is 60, any suggestions for changes?

    Sideboard:15
    2xGo for the throat
    2xDoom blade (shall i go 2:2 on these and go for the throat?)
    3xSever the bloodline
    4xNihil Spellbomb
    4xGeth's Verdict


    How does that look? I fixed the lands, dropped 2 (the only things costing more than 3 mana is Moan of the unhallowed and it's flashback. Then i added 2 mortar pods, as i propperbly want a lot. I also added Geth's Verdict to the sideboard.
    Last edited by Ninjaman; 2012-04-05 at 04:29 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

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    Unlike the non-Drogskol Reaver 7+ drops (and actually most of the good 6 drops too), Avacyn will still be legal when Hook comes out. We don't know what Standard will look like at that point. It is entirely possible that Avacyn is exactly what you want in that situation. I think it is more useful to think of a card and think of the situations in which it could be good than to think of a card and ignore it on account of it not being good right now or even in comparison to what is good right now.

    I understand that Avacyn doesn't change the board position. This makes it much harder to justify casting her at 8 mana. But I don't think that makes her unplayable. All it does is make her have less board presence.
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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
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    Unlike the non-Drogskol Reaver 7+ drops (and actually most of the good 6 drops too), Avacyn will still be legal when Hook comes out. We don't know what Standard will look like at that point. It is entirely possible that Avacyn is exactly what you want in that situation. I think it is more useful to think of a card and think of the situations in which it could be good than to think of a card and ignore it on account of it not being good right now or even in comparison to what is good right now.

    I understand that Avacyn doesn't change the board position. This makes it much harder to justify casting her at 8 mana. But I don't think that makes her unplayable. All it does is make her have less board presence.
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    The issue is that there is a very real (and IMO a very good) argument that if something costs that much, it better change things in your favor immediately. If I'm hard-casting 8 mana worth of critter, I want a critter that *does something*. It needs to win or change the position in my favor or SOMETHING, not just faff about and be huge.

    Do note, I actually like Avacyn, but don't find her particularly interesting or dangerous. Of course, this set might make her amazing, or Hook might make her amazing too, but I dunno. She just doesn't seem to be that amazingly interesting.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

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    The definition of "changing things in your favor" is very dependent on the situation. Like, if both players have nothing but lands in play and are in top-deck mode, Avacyn is close to exactly what you want. It's better in Elesh Norn in that situation a non-zero amount of the time. If your opponent has like 10 creatures in play, Avacyn probably isn't the thing you want. Neither is Iona, though. Creatures are good in lots of different situations.

    If what you are saying is that you want your large creature to be good against aggressive decks, that's something entirely different. Avacyn is not the large creature for you if that is what you want.
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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Is Mental Misstep worth maindecking at this point in standard? With a long list of one drops, including Avacyn's Pilgrim, Champion of the Parish, Delver of Secrets, Ponder, Gut Shot, etc. I feel it should be playable, but at the same time it is likely to end up a dead draw at least some of the time. Is there anyway to capitalize on that though?
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Can somebody advise me on some cards to consider in mono-black control for Standard? My brother wants to use a deck revolving around it at FNM tomorrow.

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
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    Lands: 22
    14xSwamp
    4xDarkslick shores
    4xDrowned catacomb

    Creatures:18
    4xGravecrawler
    4xDiregraf ghoul
    4xDiregraf captain
    2xCemetery reaper
    2xUnbreathing horde
    2xGeralf's messenger

    Sorceries:4
    2xMoan of the unhallowed
    2xGhoulcaller's chant

    Instants:12
    2xGo for the throat
    2xDoom blade
    4xTragic slip
    4xVapor snag

    Artifacts:4
    4xMortarpod

    That is 60, any suggestions for changes?

    Sideboard:15
    2xGo for the throat
    2xDoom blade (shall i go 2:2 on these and go for the throat?)
    3xSever the bloodline
    4xNihil Spellbomb
    4xGeth's Verdict


    How does that look? I fixed the lands, dropped 2 (the only things costing more than 3 mana is Moan of the unhallowed and it's flashback. Then i added 2 mortar pods, as i propperbly want a lot. I also added Geth's Verdict to the sideboard.

    Might I suggest adding Highborne Ghoul?

    Cheap and evasion, seems like something that might be usable here...

    Mortarpod is nice in the deck, but four might be overdoing it...how many would you really want at once in your starting hand?

    As for Doom Blade vs Go For The Throat, in a lot of tournament decks I have seen online, the consensus seems to be that GFTT is better due to the sinking number of artifact creatures (and increasing presence of living equipment such as Batterskull, which might ruin your day).

    Unbreathing horde might be strong in some matchups, but if you can afford it, another two Geralfs Messengers might be stronger, as they push damage through easily.

    May I ask, whats your opinion on Phantasmal Image and/or Phyrexian Metamorph? I know those are not Zombies, but would make your deck at lot stronger (ie, copying Geralfs for more reach, you could even equip Mortarpod to sacrifice Phantasmal Messengers to get a lot of nukes)...

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Abakus View Post
    Might I suggest adding Highborne Ghoul?

    Cheap and evasion, seems like something that might be usable here...
    Bah, i am not really sure, if i needed a 2 drop i would rather take a black cat, i am not really a fan of highborn ghoul.

    Mortarpod is nice in the deck, but four might be overdoing it...how many would you really want at once in your starting hand?
    You are propperbly right here, i should propperbly take less, the problem is that i really want to get one but more than that isn't needed.

    As for Doom Blade vs Go For The Throat, in a lot of tournament decks I have seen online, the consensus seems to be that GFTT is better due to the sinking number of artifact creatures (and increasing presence of living equipment such as Batterskull, which might ruin your day).
    Should i drop them or just go sideboard on them?

    Unbreathing horde might be strong in some matchups, but if you can afford it, another two Geralfs Messengers might be stronger, as they push damage through easily.
    Maybe, i don't know, i really like the card, and i was planning on using it more like a later game play where it could easily be 5/5 or more, also combined with the captains or reapers it can't die of combat dammage.

    May I ask, whats your opinion on Phantasmal Image and/or Phyrexian Metamorph? I know those are not Zombies, but would make your deck at lot stronger (ie, copying Geralfs for more reach, you could even equip Mortarpod to sacrifice Phantasmal Messengers to get a lot of nukes)...
    I think they are awesome, i would propperbly get phantasmal image as it is only 2 mana, but also do you really think i should copy my own zombies what about my opponent's Wurmcoil engine/ titan?

    I guess i could switch out 2 mortarpods for some images, i think i will just play the differnt decks on cockatrice and find out.

    Also what do you think about the sideboard?
    Last edited by Ninjaman; 2012-04-05 at 06:23 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Drogskol Reavers and Elesh Norns are being cast in decks in tournaments right now. Cast, with mana. There are decks doing this in Standard.
    I haven't seen Drogskol Reaver in a single top 8. And worth pointing out Norn is 7 mana instead of 8. While that might be only one mana, at that level that one mana makes a world of difference.
    Avacyn is a card that could see play. Of course the Eldrazi had help, but the Eldrazi being played were still 11 and 15 mana. Even with the help of Eldrazi Temples and Eye of Ugin, they were generally cast with 8 or 9 mana-producing permanents on the battlefield.
    However, the Eldrazi were also colorless. Thus, they were open to more things to get them into play, specifically the Green cards that give you mana acceleration, something less available for a White card.

    How do you know Avacyn won't see any tournament play? How do you know the card isn't going to be influential on any tournament formats?
    I do not know for sure. But it does seem unlikely. And I think that's unfortunate for a card that was the poster of the set and so hyped up. Though overall I do just find it boring. Even if they were going to make some super-fatty I feel they could've made something a bit more unique.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    I think they are awesome, i would propperbly get phantasmal image as it is only 2 mana, but also do you really think i should copy my own zombies what about my opponent's Wurmcoil engine/ titan?
    Obviously if your opponent has a card worth copying, you should copy it. But as your opponent isn't always going to have that, it's good if your creatures would be worth copying also.
    Last edited by Lord Seth; 2012-04-05 at 06:27 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
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    I feel they could've made something a bit more unique.
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    The first card ever printed with straight up 'everything you control is indestructible' isn't unique enough for you? That's kind of a high standard isn't it?

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Foeofthelance View Post
    Is Mental Misstep worth maindecking at this point in standard? With a long list of one drops, including Avacyn's Pilgrim, Champion of the Parish, Delver of Secrets, Ponder, Gut Shot, etc. I feel it should be playable, but at the same time it is likely to end up a dead draw at least some of the time. Is there anyway to capitalize on that though?
    Some would consider yes. Mental Misstep is especially valuable in a Delver deck, as it allows you to counter Vapor Snags, Gut Shots, Galvanic Blasts, and Tragic Slips in addition to most of the threats you will want to Gut Shot (missing, like, Spirit tokens and Snapcaster). It is quite valuable now because you can stop a lot of the decks reliant on cards like Birds of Paradise and Avacyn's Pilgrim as well as decks reliant on, say, Faithless Looting. Misstep is quite a viable card, and I run a couple in my Delver deck.

    What you have to consider when thinking of Mental Misstep is whether the cards it answers instead of Gut Shot or Mutagenic Growth are cards you care about more. These three spells really take up a similar space in your deck (free Phyrexian mana spell), so you should consider all 3 before you decide.

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    I understand that Avacyn is probably less playable in, say, any format in which you choose between Avacyn and these cards. But it's not that impossible to imagine a format in which you want to cast Avacyn to me, and we don't know whether that format will exist in a year or not (unless you're from the future, in which case do tell).

    I'm not sure what your definition of "unique" is by the metrics mentioned so far, to be honest. Boring I understand. But your usage of unique confuses me.
    Last edited by tgva8889; 2012-04-05 at 10:11 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Bah, i am not really sure, if i needed a 2 drop i would rather take a black cat, i am not really a fan of highborn ghoul.
    Well, I can understand resentment towards playing any kind of creature which does not offer an special ability, but think of it that way:

    • Black cat does not significantly further your game plan (killing them with damage)
    • At two mana, Mana Leak is available
    • Zombies want to be on the play, so the two-drop slot is probably the last one not likely to be countered (if on the play)
    • With a Grave Crawler and a Highborne Ghoul in play, most matchups will be already looking for a sweeper, while a Grave Crawler alone is no significant threat


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post

    You are propperbly right here, i should propperbly take less, the problem is that i really want to get one but more than that isn't needed.
    Exactly...the first one is very important, but more are generally useless...so do you really want to risk to draw more than one?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Should i drop them or just go sideboard on them?
    I personally would leave one Doom Blade in, just in case, but a Liliana in the Sideboard might really help (one of the most commonly played artifact creatures is Wurmcoil Enginge, which is used by UB (or any kind of variation thereof) control, against which Liliana is already great.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Maybe, i don't know, i really like the card, and i was planning on using it more like a later game play where it could easily be 5/5 or more, also combined with the captains or reapers it can't die of combat dammage.

    Sure, the creature can be very big, but it dies to removal very fast. Also the lack of trample makes it pretty bad versus Timely Reinforcement or Lingering Souls...in general Evasion and/or Trample trumps a slightly bigger creature (also, after the first match the enemy will probably be boarding in some graveyard hate to stop the all-powerfull Messenger/Grave Crawler, so it will be even smaller...).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    I think they are awesome, i would propperbly get phantasmal image as it is only 2 mana, but also do you really think i should copy my own zombies what about my opponent's Wurmcoil engine/ titan?

    I guess i could switch out 2 mortarpods for some images, i think i will just play the differnt decks on cockatrice and find out.
    Yeah, you can do that too, if the enemy offers better creatures :)
    In general, the phantasmal images can be very strong. They also offer one of the few reliable outs to Thrun, so I would recommend adding a full playset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Also what do you think about the sideboard?
    Essentially your sideboard is removal and some pieces of graveyard hate...
    I'd add a Liliana or two instead of the Doom Blades, and probably move at least one of the Main Board Doom Blades to Sideboard.

    Also, you seem to be very removal heavy...while clearing the way for your zombies is nice, remember that more threats are always good.

    Useful additions might include Ghost Quarters for those pesky Townships/Wolf Runs/etc, Ratchet Bombs against some Planeswalkers and especially tokens (due to Lingering Souls, one might even be advisable in the main board) and Mana Leak and/or Distress to catch the enemy by surprise.

    Ghoulcaller's Chant is also a card that, while offering some potential, can also be a trap. While you can return two zombies to your hand, there are much more benefical things you can do with your three drop. Generally you want a high threat-density, but if you spend a whole turn getting creatures out of your graveyard, this is not the case. (For example, on turn three you can have a Grave Crawler and one additional Zombie in the Graveyard, if you play a two drop. If you play a Messenger instead of Chant, you can return the Grave Crawler anyways and still played a threat which will deal some damage in almost any case).

    Sure the benefits in the late game might be greater, but Zombies are a relatively fast deck and profit from a quick games, so I personally would avoid those slow cards.

    I hope that helps, and good luck with your deck!

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Question for the community: What is the highest level of judge here? I'm currently L1, but I am actually rather inspired to go for L2 this summer. I think being an L2 would be awesome, especially because of my, um, low stature. But also because knowing the rules and regs is something that interests me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    Can somebody advise me on some cards to consider in mono-black control for Standard? My brother wants to use a deck revolving around it at FNM tomorrow.
    Full on control, or Aggro/Control? MBC doesn't really work right now given that Duress and Inquisition of Kozilek are out of the format, and you really want some good targeted discard to make up for the lack of counterspells in a control shell. What I would recommend are running a bunch of sweepers (Black Sun's Zenith, possibly Life's Finale) and some good threats (Wurmcoil Engine, Phyrexian Obliterator) while using what little decent targeted discard there is in the format (Distress, maybe Despise) and some good targeted removal (Tragic Slip, Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, maybe Victim of Night) and sacrifice effects (Geth's Verdict, Liliana of the Veil) with some variations depending on how controlling you want the deck. You might run Bloodgift Demon or Bloodline Keeper as additional threats, or go for a Zombie package with Gravecrawler, Geralf's Messenger, and Cemetary Reaper for value for a more aggressive deck.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Question for the community: What is the highest level of judge here? I'm currently L1, but I am actually rather inspired to go for L2 this summer. I think being an L2 would be awesome, especially because of my, um, low stature. But also because knowing the rules and regs is something that interests me.
    What's the general path to becoming a L2? Just work at events, and keep learning?

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Work at events under L3s, learn the IPG. I think you have to 1) judge events under an L3 and 2) take a L2 Judge Exam administered by a properly leveled Judge (dunno what level can give the L2 exam, I think it's L3 or higher but I might be wrong) to actually reach L2. But mostly it's just getting experience, learning the rules better, learning penalties and tournament operations better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binks View Post
    indestructible' isn't unique enough for you? That's kind of a high standard isn't it?
    Elspeth already had something similar in making your stuff indestructible (okay, it didn't hit planeswalkers, but it's close enough).

    However, let's actually disregard that. In terms of how the card would be used, how is it unique? It's really just another "prohibitively high casting creature that does something really strong in addition to having a high power/toughness." Ultimately, it just seems to be fulfilling the possible roles that other cards of that type already do. The most obvious application for the card is a reanimation target, but it's not unique in that capacity...there's just tons of cards that fit that role, like Jin-Gitaxia, Iona, Elesh Norn, and more. Their specific abilities may be different, but they still fit the same role. It's similar to, say, Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain/Serum Visions/Portent. Their specific abilities are different, but all have the role of "card that lets you get another card while changing the top cards of your library." If Brainstorm were banned in Legacy today, people could easily shift in one of those other cards (probably Ponder or Preordain) to where it was and carry on in a fairly similar fashion, even if they might not be quite as good.

    Contrast, say, Delver of Secrets, also from the Innistrad block. That's a unique card (I also know it's the example I always come back to, but it's such a good example I can't help it). There's really no other card quite like it. You can't take a Delver deck and somehow replace the Delver with something else and fulfill the same function. It's not just that there aren't any replacements, even if they're weaker...there are no replacements at all! Unless I'm missing something. Am I missing something? Because I don't think I'm missing something.

    Keeping with Innistrad, Thalia is another good example. It's not quite as unique as Delver (its ability is shared by Glowrider and Thorn of Amethyst, though the latter doesn't double as a creature and the former is kind of...bad), but it's still an incredibly potent card that has been having a big impact on multiple formats (including Vintage--not even Delver has done that!). In fact, it's decent against Delver...

    Or for a non-Innistrad example, Hive Mind. I personally cannot envision a single deck that uses Hive Mind effectively that would work the same way--or possibly work at all--if it were replaced with something else.

    So for unique it means how unique its usage is. How easily can it be replaced with another card of that fulfills the same basic role? For an example of non-uniqueness, take a dual land (not counting the originals for obvious reasons). Let's say Glacial Fortress. If I suddenly couldn't use that, there's other cards, e.g. Adarkar Wastes, Seachrome Coast, Hallowed Fountain, or Celestial Colonnade, which fulfill the same role of giving me blue or white mana.

    So, where does Avacyn fit into that? Well, as I've stated before, she fulfills the role of "strong card but one that costs so darn much that you have to find some special way to get it into play." The main ways to do that would be to somehow get enough mana to cast her (Ramp, Urzatron, etc.), building things up with Birthing Pod, reanimation, or cheating her into play with cards like Sneak Attack/Show and Tell/etc., and so on. So even IF Avacyn sees play in any of those, it's really not particularly unique because of how many (decent if not better) choices there are to use INSTEAD in those decks.

    And THAT'S why I think Avacyn isn't unique. Even if giving everything indestructibility is something that few cards do, the way she'd likely actually used hardly seems to be.


    On a minor point, I find the art a bit bland as well. I liked the art they were using in promos beforehand more, that is, this art. It just feels way more awe-inspiring, and actually seems to fit better with the flavor text.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    On a minor point, I find the art a bit bland as well. I liked the art they were using in promos beforehand more, that is, this art. It just feels way more awe-inspiring, and actually seems to fit better with the flavor text.
    They probably didn't use that art because it'll be used for another card in the set. That said...

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    So...you find Avacyn bland because of how she'll get unto the field? Essentially that is. That seems to be your biggest point since...well, just to use an example for a deck, what about one that focuses on massive board-wipes? Just having Avacyn on the field means that cards like Life's Finale/Day of Judgment/Wrath of God/Damnation become all the more usable for you because it doesn't affect you at all, just your opponent.

    Hell, if you can cheat Avacyn out, you could (in theory) wipe the board every other turn or so, safe in the fact that Avacyn's got your board completely covered. Avacyn means that one of White's biggest removal option (mutually assured destruction/board-wipes) become opponent wipes. Is there any other card that could replace Avacyn in this regard? Easily or not? In Standard or not? I mean heck, out of Standard, you could run Avacyn, Armageddon, and Wrath of God together and make your opponent cry because they can neither keep creatures or lands out since the one deterrent to those cards (the destruction of your own creatures/lands) no longer applies.


    What I'm wondering is...now that we've seen Avacyn...what about Griselbrand? He's released when Avacyn is and is described as essentially the head demon of Innistrad....so how is he going to compare to Withengar Unbound, the 13/13 with flying, trample, intimidate, and the ability to grow larger once a player loses?
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

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    Thalia can be replaced fairly easily with Grand Abolisher. They both fulfill the same purpose, being a 2-mana creature that disrupts your opponent and serves as a solid creature. Delver takes the place of Phantasmal Bear, as a 1-mana blue creature that's fairly aggressive in exchange for a drawback.

    Outside of standard, replacements for Delver of Secrets: Cosi's Trickster, Drifter il-Dal, Spindrift Drake.

    For Thalia: Ethersworn Canonist, Gaddock Teeg, True Believer, Kataki, War's Wage, Leonin Arbiter, and probably many more since this is a hard archetype to search for.

    Are all of these cards as good as Thalia or Delver? No, probably not. Delver especially stands out as a very good card, which is no surprise given it's track record. That's not to say that it's role is completely unique, however. Illusions was a deck before Delver inherited much of it's framework and strategy. White Weenie has been a deck since the beginning of magic, and while Thalia is a great tool for it, she's not unique in her purpose.

    What is true, is that Thalia and Delver both are unique in the specific abilities and rules text that they have, which is exactly as true for Avacyn, if not moreso. Delver isn't the first card to do something depending on what card you reveal, and it's certainly not the first aggressive evasive creature. Thalia comes from a long lineage of disruptive, efficient white 2-drops, and her specific ability has existed before in it's entirety, even if it wasn't on a creature.

    Avacyn's ability, on the other hand, creates indestructibility, a very rare ability in magic in general (there are 53 cards period that refer to indestructibility), and beyond that she grants permanent indestructibility to every single permanent you have as soon as she enters the field, something that has never been done before. The only other card to come close is another mythic rare card, and a planeswalker at that, and only in that planeswalker's ultimate ability, which happens even less often than casting an 8 mana creature.

    Anyways, I wouldn't count Avacyn out of the game yet. I can very easily imagine a green/white ramp deck filled with mana creatures (pilgrim, birds, elves, maybe some myr), as well as some nice token generators like Lingering Souls, Gather the Townsfolk, and White Sun's Zenith, which is built to ramp up into Avacyn and/or Elesh Norn, then win with an almighty army of smashingness. In that deck, Avacyn does a lot to stabilize you against most decks that attack you with creatures, since she makes all of your mana dorks and tokens indestructible, allowing them to block whatever your opponent has managed to play at that point. And of course other stuff like Oblivion Ring (which Avacyn protects), Fiend Hunter (protected), and other such white/green staples should serve well to keep you alive until you hit 8 mana on turn 5-6 or so. Throw in some board wipers in case things get ugly early, or if you want to wipe your opponent's board after avacyn is out.

    Potential List:

    4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    4x Llanowar Elves
    4x Birds of Paradise
    4x Fiend Hunter
    3x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    3x Avacyn, Angel of Hope

    4x Lingering Souls
    3x White Sun's Zenith
    3x Day of Judgement

    4x Oblivion Ring

    24x Land

    Is this a top 8 deck? No, of course not. But it is a deck, and I don't see any reason it wouldn't work very well on a kitchen table, and in it Avacyn is unique and irreplaceable in what she does. Is Elesh Norn better? Maybe, but they do very different things, and it's not hard to imagine a situation where Avacyn is better. (ie, vs a deck with 3+ titans on the field)


    As for Griselbrand, well, these are demons we're talking about. The leader isn't the one with the most brute strength, the leader is the most intelligent, vile, and cunning one that has wormed his way to the top with backstabbing, blackmail, and various other nasty tactics. The strongest one is much more likely to take his place as the leader's right-hand man, the muscle that gets things done.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by DMofDarkness View Post
    Full on control, or Aggro/Control? MBC doesn't really work right now given that Duress and Inquisition of Kozilek are out of the format, and you really want some good targeted discard to make up for the lack of counterspells in a control shell.
    Full On control. I don't really have cards to make it an aggro deck.
    What I would recommend are running a bunch of sweepers (Black Sun's Zenith, possibly Life's Finale)
    I've got a few Black sun's Zeniths. Don't have any life's finales, but I have 4 Massacre Wurms which are about as good as it's going to get.
    and some good threats (Wurmcoil Engine, Phyrexian Obliterator) while using what little decent targeted discard there is in the format (Distress, maybe Despise)
    I think I can get a few distress, and have 2 despises.
    and some good targeted removal (Tragic Slip, Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, maybe Victim of Night)
    I have Domm blades and go for the throats. my FNM is very Vampire/Zombie/Werewolf heavy so Victim of Night is not an option. I'll see if I can get any Tragic Slips soon enough.
    and sacrifice effects (Geth's Verdict, Liliana of the Veil) with some variations depending on how controlling you want the deck. You might run Bloodgift Demon or Bloodline Keeper as additional threats, or go for a Zombie package with Gravecrawler, Geralf's Messenger, and Cemetary Reaper for value for a more aggressive deck.
    I've got a few Geth's verdicts in the deck too. Can't afford the Messengers or Gravecrawlers, and my Cemetery Reapers are tied up in the deck I'll be using tomorrow.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    I've got a few Black sun's Zeniths. Don't have any life's finales, but I have 4 Massacre Wurms which are about as good as it's going to get.
    ...I can't believe that I forgot about those. Yeah, you should probably run the full set, as they are a finisher and a pseudo-wrath. Finally, Memoricide in the board. Lingering Souls can be hard to deal with, and Memoricide is the only reliable way to get them all in one go.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by Abakus View Post
    Well, I can understand resentment towards playing any kind of creature which does not offer an special ability, but think of it that way:

    • Black cat does not significantly further your game plan (killing them with damage)
    • At two mana, Mana Leak is available
    • Zombies want to be on the play, so the two-drop slot is probably the last one not likely to be countered (if on the play)
    • With a Grave Crawler and a Highborne Ghoul in play, most matchups will be already looking for a sweeper, while a Grave Crawler alone is no significant threat
    But black cat is card advantage.

    Exactly...the first one is very important, but more are generally useless...so do you really want to risk to draw more than one?
    I need 2 as i want to be pretty sure to draw one.

    I personally would leave one Doom Blade in, just in case, but a Liliana in the Sideboard might really help (one of the most commonly played artifact creatures is Wurmcoil Enginge, which is used by UB (or any kind of variation thereof) control, against which Liliana is already great.
    But she is expensive, like really, really expensive.

    Sure, the creature can be very big, but it dies to removal very fast. Also the lack of trample makes it pretty bad versus Timely Reinforcement or Lingering Souls...in general Evasion and/or Trample trumps a slightly bigger creature (also, after the first match the enemy will probably be boarding in some graveyard hate to stop the all-powerfull Messenger/Grave Crawler, so it will be even smaller...).
    Good point, i guess i will dumb them for more messangers then.

    Yeah, you can do that too, if the enemy offers better creatures :)
    In general, the phantasmal images can be very strong. They also offer one of the few reliable outs to Thrun, so I would recommend adding a full playset.
    I propperbly need some of those.

    Essentially your sideboard is removal and some pieces of graveyard hate...
    I'd add a Liliana or two instead of the Doom Blades, and probably move at least one of the Main Board Doom Blades to Sideboard.
    As said before Liliana is too expensive.

    Also, you seem to be very removal heavy...while clearing the way for your zombies is nice, remember that more threats are always good.
    Maybe, should i remove the vapor snags and throw in some images?

    Useful additions might include Ghost Quarters for those pesky Townships/Wolf Runs/etc, Ratchet Bombs against some Planeswalkers and especially tokens (due to Lingering Souls, one might even be advisable in the main board) and Mana Leak and/or Distress to catch the enemy by surprise.
    Ghost quarters is a possibility (i got 1 already), should i run 2 or 4?

    Ghoulcaller's Chant is also a card that, while offering some potential, can also be a trap. While you can return two zombies to your hand, there are much more benefical things you can do with your three drop. Generally you want a high threat-density, but if you spend a whole turn getting creatures out of your graveyard, this is not the case. (For example, on turn three you can have a Grave Crawler and one additional Zombie in the Graveyard, if you play a two drop. If you play a Messenger instead of Chant, you can return the Grave Crawler anyways and still played a threat which will deal some damage in almost any case).

    Sure the benefits in the late game might be greater, but Zombies are a relatively fast deck and profit from a quick games, so I personally would avoid those slow cards.
    I find it really usefull, it usually let's me play another diregraf captain and ghoul on turn 5. I think it is worth it.

    I hope that helps, and good luck with your deck!
    It did, thank you for your help.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    I don't think Black Cat is card advantage, at least not the way you're looking at. Yes, it takes a card at random from their hand when it dies. Being a 1/1, it isn't even all that hard to get it killed...and that's the problem. Most often you're going to lose the Cat to something that's either bigger than it is or to one of the many, many tokens that are floating about. People aren't going to Gut Shot or Go For the Throat it since it's not a big enough threat to warrant that. So you're more likely to lose the cat to their creature, leaving them with a stronger board position. You'll grab a card from their hand, but without any control it is just as likely to be a spare land or late game card they can draw into a replacement. The only time you'll see any actual card advantage would be if you kill 1/2 of a token maker such as Lingering Spirits or Gather the Townsfolk - though they'll still have the other body to keep fighting with and you won't.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    I recently got my hands on a Thalia. Any tips on a either mono-White or a Green-White human deck with Thalia in it? I prefer aggressive decks if that matters for advice.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by DMofDarkness View Post
    ...I can't believe that I forgot about those. Yeah, you should probably run the full set, as they are a finisher and a pseudo-wrath. Finally, Memoricide in the board. Lingering Souls can be hard to deal with, and Memoricide is the only reliable way to get them all in one go.
    If I can manage to get any, what are your thoughts on surgical extraction?

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Another note on Black Cat: If you're running an aggressive deck, you generally don't care about card advantage. You give up card advantage by playing cheap cards, in exchange for making your deck very fast, in the hopes of killing your opponent before they can really get going. You should certainly try to avoid giving up any more card advantage, but playing black cat over the much more aggressive Highborn Ghoul is just shooting yourself in the foot for little gain.

    All that said, you're better off just running 4 Diregraf Ghouls over either of those options. Gives you a very reliable chance of a turn one 2-power guy, and a pretty decent chance of two more 2-power guys on turn two, which is very strong.

    A lot of zombie decks also seem to be running Phyrexian Obliterator, which while not a zombie, is a very strong card overall if you can support it's mana cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    If I can manage to get any, what are your thoughts on surgical extraction?
    Surgical Extraction is pretty good; it's mostly used to extract Undying creatures, netting card advantage. You might occasionally manage to get a Lingering Souls with it, but that would mostly be against delver decks that don't play it and flash it back in the same turn. Something to remember: After Lingering Souls resolves, the player that cast it gets priority, so they can flash it back before you have a chance to extract all of them. Those are pretty much the only used for the card, and it's good to okay then, but don't rely too heavily on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Question for the community: What is the highest level of judge here? I'm currently L1, but I am actually rather inspired to go for L2 this summer. I think being an L2 would be awesome, especially because of my, um, low stature. But also because knowing the rules and regs is something that interests me.
    I'm an L2, with no intention of going higher. It's pretty awesome indeed. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Work at events under L3s, learn the IPG. I think you have to 1) judge events under an L3 and 2) take a L2 Judge Exam administered by a properly leveled Judge (dunno what level can give the L2 exam, I think it's L3 or higher but I might be wrong) to actually reach L2. But mostly it's just getting experience, learning the rules better, learning penalties and tournament operations better.
    Yeah, it's L3 or higher. Judges can certify other judges to a level below their own. Judging under an L3 isn't really necessary, but HJing an event or two definitely is. And mentoring and certifying new judges is a pretty big chunk of what an L2's supposed to be doing, so you should know a thing or two about that too.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

    Quote Originally Posted by DMofDarkness View Post
    Surgical Extraction is pretty good; it's mostly used to extract Undying creatures, netting card advantage. You might occasionally manage to get a Lingering Souls with it, but that would mostly be against delver decks that don't play it and flash it back in the same turn. Something to remember: After Lingering Souls resolves, the player that cast it gets priority, so they can flash it back before you have a chance to extract all of them. Those are pretty much the only used for the card, and it's good to okay then, but don't rely too heavily on it.
    Getting an Undying creature doesn't give you card advantage. If you're just hitting the one creature you're trading one for one. It only does if they have additional copies in hand, or multiple copies are hitting the yard at once (generally from a Wrath).

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