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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wookieetank View Post
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    In the books they showed that the gamemasters had control over everything from the temperature, to the weather, to whether or not the streams and lakes even contained water. The fire went out off screen in the book as well, but with the rest of the craziness that the gamemaster did there, it wasn't so hard to rationalize. In the movie however, they weren't shown to have quite as much control of every aspect of the areana as in the books, and the lack of fire damage was a bit of a head scratcher.
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    Well, they already showed they could make fake fire. Remember the dress and the parade costumes?
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
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    Well, they already showed they could make fake fire. Remember the dress and the parade costumes?
    I don't think this technically counts a a spoiler, but I was pretty sure those fires were real (well, one of the parade costumes was). At least as per the books. I know the other two were done with LEDs, basically.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
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    Well, they already showed they could make fake fire. Remember the dress and the parade costumes?
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    That certainly wasn't the case then, though; the burn on Katniss's leg is proof enough.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
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    Well, they already showed they could make fake fire. Remember the dress and the parade costumes?
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    True, but they've made specialized clothing in real life that isn't consumed by fire, but we have huge issues getting any sort of forest fire under control (just look at the news any given summer in the US). Also clothing on fire != total environmental control, at least in my head. Just neat parlor tricks. Again, just my interpretation of it.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonsamurai77 View Post
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    That certainly wasn't the case then, though; the burn on Katniss's leg is proof enough.
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    So they can add heat as well, it's just electromagnetic radiation in either case. In the film at least, the dog things also seemed to be a weird line between fake and real.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Please explain how the first book can be deemed suitable for 11 year olds?????????????
    I AM an 11 year old and pretty much half my class loves the hunger games.
    11 year olds are probably their best audience.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Edit again: Please explain how the first book can be deemed suitable for 11 year olds?????????????
    Haven't read the first book and only saw the movie, but quite frankly Dragon Ball Z (even the more censored version that aired on Toonami) was probably more violent.

    Actually, shonen in general can be pretty violent when you get down to it.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Haven't read the first book and only saw the movie, but quite frankly Dragon Ball Z (even the more censored version that aired on Toonami) was probably more violent.

    Actually, shonen in general can be pretty violent when you get down to it.
    What's Shonen?
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    What's Shonen?
    A Japanese word that means boy, but is often used to describe fictional series (particularly manga) made for said demographic. So stuff like Dragonball Z, Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, Hikaru no Go, Toriko, Eyeshield 21, Death Note, Super Sentai, etc. It's most associated with action/fighting series (as you'll see by how many were in the list I made), but isn't limited to them.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Here we go again. . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Haven't read the first book and only saw the movie, but quite frankly Dragon Ball Z (even the more censored version that aired on Toonami) was probably more violent.

    Actually, shonen in general can be pretty violent when you get down to it.
    Japanese shows imported and played in the US aren't going to make a strong argument here, for a variety of reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    What's Shonen?
    Japanese anime and manga (cartoons and comics, if it must be explained), geared towards young boys, generally in their tweens and early teens.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Thank you (both).
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus the Grim View Post
    Japanese shows imported and played in the US aren't going to make a strong argument here, for a variety of reasons.
    Why not?
    Japanese anime and manga (cartoons and comics, if it must be explained), geared towards young boys, generally in their tweens and early teens.
    It's not just cartoons and comics, Super Sentai is decidedly shonen but is live action.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    I had a bit of a fridge logic moment on the reasoning behind the Hunger Games.
    I have not read the books, but from what I understand, going to the Guv'ment for aid in any fashion, food, supplies, likely even medical care, is done on a system where you get another ballot in the box.
    But wouldn't that engender a distrust and a desire for independence from the government as much as possible?
    In fact, we see just that with Katniss and her hunting.
    It just strikes me as a little Stupid Evil way to run a system, even for a culture that normally sends 23 kids to die every year.
    ....yes. It's also a very gameable system since apparently, any entry just stays in from year to year...until after the teen years, when they just go away. I would expect to see heavy use of the system by people in their last year...stocking wealth for the transition to adulthood. Minimal risk at that point, and the districts appear to be decently large. Taking an extra risk to get ahead is something at least some people would do...and as more people do it, the risk ends up being no greater.

    I also had a lot of trouble with the apparent need for a victor, given that they had JUST released a giant swarm of dogs on them which could have easily killed them all. Those two elements do not work together.

    Then, you have people like me. Id likely no longer be eligible for such a system on account of age...but if I was, I'd volunteer every year. Why? Survival/combat falls smack into my skill set. I have better odds than the average person. If you have willing volunteers, the whole system falls apart, and frankly, teens engage in all manner of risky behavior.

    I also rather hated the ridiculous fashion...the whole "it's the future, so everything is weird" thing is just terrible. You can portray wealth/disconnected cultures without spraying pink over everyone.

    Also, it felt a bit contrived that Katniss ended up having to fight so little, and in such morally contrived ways. Everyone going to sleep at once? Really? This is your group that has trained their entire lives for this?

    As an archer, I also would have appreciated if they tried to make the bow/arrows look less obviously a terrible prop, and like an actual weapon.

    It was...an acceptable movie, I suppose. I was not overly thrilled by it. Kind of predictable.

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    I've always wondered what happens if a district selects it's tribute ahead of time , since you can volunteer and bypass the whole drawing system, then everybody just puts their names in a thousand times.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    They might just invalidate the proceedings. That seems like the sort of thing the Capitol would only allow their 'pet' districts to get away with, anyone else obviously gaming the system that way would be punished.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Problem with gaming the system is that you have to convince everyone to game the system, and if you did something like that they might just remove that option all together which would be worse for the districts when all is said and done.

    And there are plenty of kids who volunteer, doesn't mean their families don't mourn when they die.

    As for Katniss, I agree they should have swung at least one more ambiguous moral choice at her. (Say having the district 11 guy make it to the end instead of the district 2 one.) However the fact that she wouldn't be killing every one in the arena singlehandedly makes a good deal of sense. Hell, according to the trainers more of them should have died without anyone having to swing the blow at all.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Oh yeah, another thing that irked me is that they were specifically told that more people die of disease and stuff than of combat. Yet, in the actual games, we see that combat is pretty obviously the way people die.

    I also disliked the way that the well trained district was so overtly populated by bad guys. I would have liked that to at least be somewhat subtle...but no, they had to rub in the "they're bad people, and thus, ok to kill" relentlessly.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    ....yes. It's also a very gameable system since apparently, any entry just stays in from year to year...until after the teen years, when they just go away. I would expect to see heavy use of the system by people in their last year...stocking wealth for the transition to adulthood. Minimal risk at that point, and the districts appear to be decently large. Taking an extra risk to get ahead is something at least some people would do...and as more people do it, the risk ends up being no greater.
    Barely enough goods for one person to survive for a year is wealth now?

    Then, you have people like me. Id likely no longer be eligible for such a system on account of age...but if I was, I'd volunteer every year. Why? Survival/combat falls smack into my skill set. I have better odds than the average person. If you have willing volunteers, the whole system falls apart, and frankly, teens engage in all manner of risky behavior.
    Not really, whether they volunteer or not, the capital gets it's pound of flesh. The Career tributes have posed no threat to the games so far.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    Barely enough goods for one person to survive for a year is wealth now?
    It's clear from the movie that both of the following are true:
    A. You can enter the system more times to get additional food/other stuff.
    B. There is a market for food.

    So, it's trivial to turn risk of being picked into money.

    Not really, whether they volunteer or not, the capital gets it's pound of flesh. The Career tributes have posed no threat to the games so far.
    That's irrelevant. If you have a supply of volunteers, then the downside of having your name entered more times is no longer a downside. People have no reason NOT to take option A above.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    It's clear from the movie that both of the following are true:
    A. You can enter the system more times to get additional food/other stuff.
    B. There is a market for food.

    So, it's trivial to turn risk of being picked into money.
    Just enough money to buy just enough food for one person to survive for a year. Which if you need it to survive, doesn't help you, since you needed the food anyway, and if you don't, means you have to increase your chance of being entered into a competition in which 23 out of the 24 participants don't survive for that little bit of wealth. Some will take it for the bit of extra comfort, others won't, not a big deal either way.

    That's irrelevant. If you have a supply of volunteers, then the downside of having your name entered more times is no longer a downside. People have no reason NOT to take option A above.
    Ah, you were just referring to the tessera, I thought you were referring to the games as a whole, my apologies. You're right that there's little reason for the kids in districts with volunteers not to take it, but they're the better off districts anyway, so a little bit more food for the year still isn't a big deal.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    Just enough money to buy just enough food for one person to survive for a year. Which if you need it to survive, doesn't help you, since you needed the food anyway, and if you don't, means you have to increase your chance of being entered into a competition in which 23 out of the 24 participants don't survive for that little bit of wealth. Some will take it for the bit of extra comfort, others won't, not a big deal either way.

    Ah, you were just referring to the tessera, I thought you were referring to the games as a whole, my apologies. You're right that there's little reason for the kids in districts with volunteers not to take it, but they're the better off districts anyway, so a little bit more food for the year still isn't a big deal.
    I believe that, in districts of any decent size, you will get volunteers for the exact same reasons you get volunteers for the military. Since the number taken annually is so low, you can basically assume that someone's gonna take it.

    And even if they don't, if the habit of signing up extra for more food is popular...it's the same number of people taken in total. So, you all might as well. The risk comes out the same in the end.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    I believe that, in districts of any decent size, you will get volunteers for the exact same reasons you get volunteers for the military. Since the number taken annually is so low, you can basically assume that someone's gonna take it.
    ...What? Do you really think we'd have people volunteering for the military if it had a 95% mortality rate (outside of the context of a war in which you'd die/be enslaved if your nation lost)? Especially volunteers from children.

    And even if they don't, if the habit of signing up extra for more food is popular...it's the same number of people taken in total. So, you all might as well. The risk comes out the same in the end.
    Wrong, every tessera you take increases your chances, regardless of whether or not others take any. Doesn't matter if there's 100 names in there or 1000, your chances of being picked are lower if your name's only in there once rather than say, twice. This is why Katniss doesn't allow Prim to take any.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    Wrong, every tessera you take increases your chances, regardless of whether or not others take any. Doesn't matter if there's 100 names in there or 1000, your chances of being picked are lower if your name's only in there once rather than say, twice. This is why Katniss doesn't allow Prim to take any.
    Not only that but the number of times you get your name put in gets added on to the previous years ammount. So if it was your first year and you had a family of 5, you could put in your name six times to feed your family. If the following year you didn't need to feed your family, you'd be in a minimum of 7 times due to the cumulative effect. They didn't touch on this in much depth in the movie, but in the book, Gale at 16 (17? didn't care for him so didn't keep track) had his name in 42 times due to how many times he had to put in his name in order to get enough food to feed his family.

    On the topic of size of the districts, its thought that the larger districts have at most ~10,000 and the smaller/poorer ones, have much fewer people in them. The total human population is small enought that:
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    ...What? Do you really think we'd have people volunteering for the military if it had a 95% mortality rate (outside of the context of a war in which you'd die/be enslaved if your nation lost)? Especially volunteers from children.
    Well, you can volunteer for the military right now at 17. People do. Plenty of younger folks can't wait to do so. And these soldiers have volunteered for missions labeled as suicidal, in which there is no reasonable chance of coming out alive. So....history says yes.

    Wrong, every tessera you take increases your chances, regardless of whether or not others take any. Doesn't matter if there's 100 names in there or 1000, your chances of being picked are lower if your name's only in there once rather than say, twice. This is why Katniss doesn't allow Prim to take any.
    Yeah, but the difference between "everyone's name is in once" and "everyone's name is in 100 times" does not exist. So, you would expect inflation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Well, you can volunteer for the military right now at 17. People do. Plenty of younger folks can't wait to do so. And these soldiers have volunteered for missions labeled as suicidal, in which there is no reasonable chance of coming out alive. So....history says yes.
    Are those missions fights to death for random people's enjoyment that will accomplish little to nothing of value, while leaving your family worse off to support itself when you are gone?

    Yeah, but the difference between "everyone's name is in once" and "everyone's name is in 100 times" does not exist. So, you would expect inflation.
    But the difference between "everyone's name entered 100 times" and "everyone's name but mine entered 100 times" does exist. One people who don't require a tessera would be keenly aware of, and able to use to their advantage. It should also be pointed out that names can't just be entered as many times as you would like, but up to once for each member of your family.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    Are those missions fights to death for random people's enjoyment that will accomplish little to nothing of value, while leaving your family worse off to support itself when you are gone?
    I've already said that I, personally, would volunteer. It's for the same basic reason as military service. Keeping the people you grew up with safe. I've always been healthy, fit, and grew up in the woods. Better I go than someone who has no chance whatsoever.

    But the difference between "everyone's name entered 100 times" and "everyone's name but mine entered 100 times" does exist. One people who don't require a tessera would be keenly aware of, and able to use to their advantage. It should also be pointed out that names can't just be entered as many times as you would like, but up to once for each member of your family.
    The movie does not make this clear. Additionally, they make a point that the one guy has his name entered what...forty-some times? He must have quite the family.

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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    I've already said that I, personally, would volunteer. It's for the same basic reason as military service. Keeping the people you grew up with safe. I've always been healthy, fit, and grew up in the woods. Better I go than someone who has no chance whatsoever.



    The movie does not make this clear. Additionally, they make a point that the one guy has his name entered what...forty-some times? He must have quite the family.
    Once for each member each year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    I've already said that I, personally, would volunteer. It's for the same basic reason as military service. Keeping the people you grew up with safe. I've always been healthy, fit, and grew up in the woods. Better I go than someone who has no chance whatsoever.
    And you got those skills by not living in the districts, which makes you a poor example. In Panem, you're most likely to having useful skills by growing up in one of the districts of the Career tributes, which do have volunteers most years. If you have such skills in one of the other districts, it's likely because you needed them so that you and your family could survive (examples, Katniss and Gale), which means volunteering could actually hurt more people than you save.

    The movie does not make this clear. Additionally, they make a point that the one guy has his name entered what...forty-some times? He must have quite the family.
    Once for each member each year.
    Isn't it that they roll over to the following years? So since Katniss took 3 in her first year, she had her name entered automatically 5 times the second, with no benefit unless she enters her name more times beyond that?
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    And you got those skills by not living in the districts, which makes you a poor example. In Panem, you're most likely to having useful skills by growing up in one of the districts of the Career tributes, which do have volunteers most years. If you have such skills in one of the other districts, it's likely because you needed them so that you and your family could survive (examples, Katniss and Gale), which means volunteering could actually hurt more people than you save.





    Isn't it that they roll over to the following years? So since Katniss took 3 in her first year, she had her name entered automatically 5 times the second, with no benefit unless she enters her name more times beyond that?
    That's what I meant yeah. It's not that he draws forty seven each time, it's that each year the numbers stack. And as we've seen, entering your name additional times is still not enough food to feed a family. It just helps more than it harms.
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    Default Re: The Hunger Games film thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    And you got those skills by not living in the districts, which makes you a poor example. In Panem, you're most likely to having useful skills by growing up in one of the districts of the Career tributes, which do have volunteers most years. If you have such skills in one of the other districts, it's likely because you needed them so that you and your family could survive (examples, Katniss and Gale), which means volunteering could actually hurt more people than you save.
    Well, nobody actually lives in the districts, so yeah. But if I grew up in such a place and had those skills(likely, I lived in a rural, low income area...and seriously, those are the kind of places where people learn outdoors skills), then it makes sense.

    I don't get the fixation on family as opposed to other groups.

    Isn't it that they roll over to the following years? So since Katniss took 3 in her first year, she had her name entered automatically 5 times the second, with no benefit unless she enters her name more times beyond that?
    So, we've got risk weighted against early entries. In short, this makes last year entries significantly less risky than early year entries. Definitely pretty broken as a system.

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