Mass Effect 3.5B: Taste the Rainbow (Story and Ending Discussion; Spoilers!)

[Callos_DeTerran]

Patrick Weekes (one of the main writers behind Rannoch and Tuchanka) answered some questions from a fan at PAX. Said fan then posted the answers on the Bioware forums. Here you go:



There you have it, the galaxy isn't over after all, and the "repurpose the Reapers" theory seems to have been canonized.

...Totally called it on Reaper capital-ship losses.

[chiasaur11]

...Totally called it on Reaper capital-ship losses.

Thought (and said, somewhere) the same myself.

Which makes the turians the nastiest enemies the reapers have ever faced, excluding Shepard. Knew I liked them for a reason.

[Landis963]

12 lightyears a day at cruising speeds. I'm wondering whether or not that would be enough to build the galaxy back up to full strength like Mr. Weekes, for one, is banking on. The Mass Effect wiki doesn't say whether static buildup scales with speed or not, nor does it say what exactly such a scale would be. I'm assuming for the purposes of this post that it does scale, and that a 12 lightyears/day jump would produce the same charge as 24 lightyears in 12 hours, the same as 48 lightyears in 6 hours, etc., and the charge accumulated by going that distance in that time would not "cook" any passengers as the wiki describes, although a few more hours at the same speed would be dangerous and mass effect cores have an upper plateau on how far past lightspeed they can go. The nearest star from Earth, Alpha Centauri, is 4.36 lightyears away, and we only get into multi-day FTL jumps (at normal cruising speed) with Gliese 1061, which is 11.991 lightyears away. However, Gliese doesn't have any planets around it, and the only star system around that distance with possible planets (necessary for discharging static) is Tau Ceti (11.89 ly away from Earth). At double cruising speed, we can reach the star HR 222 in a day, which is 24.33 ly away from Earth. However, both Tau Ceti and HR 222 are in the wrong direction from galactic center, the direction with the highest number of known star clusters (and thus the highest probability of reaching another known alien civilization). Altair (16.77 ly) lies in the right direction(specifically in the general direction of the Annos Basin), but it doesn't have any planets for discharging. Epsilon Eridani (10.50 ly) is a good start, as it has a planet for discharging, and lies in the direction of the Attican Traverse, so far as I can tell from the map on the Milky Way page of the ME wiki (which itself is dated from ME1). Also on the way to the rest of the Attican Traverse: the Arcturus Stream (36.71 ly away), with 5 canonical planets and a second canonical system reachable by conventional FTL (Euler) within the space of a few seconds, itself with 4 canonical planets.

TL;DR I think it's plausible that the galaxy can get by after the mass relays. Of course, there will be some tense moments as new safe trade routes are established, but those can be labeled under "growing pains".

Source. And, of course, the ME wiki.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and there's no reason for the comm buoys to be destroyed either. Which means, for one, that the extranet is still up and running, which means the Alliance et al. can coordinate with their homeworlds and colonies.

[Luzahn]

I had assumed that Capitol losses were extremely rare. I forget the name of the planet, but in ME2 we see the remnants of a reaper that was destroyed as the last act of a civilization. Kind of implied that they die infrequently.

[Morty]

Not sure how I feel about the galaxy rebuilding itself after the destruction of the Mass Relays. Reliance on them gave the ME universe something of a better sense of scale than most sci-fi universes have. But then, it is a good point that the main factor the mass relays were the only means of long-distance FTL travel was that they were so convenient and useful and that after they went kabloey the races of the galaxy will actually have a reason to come up with something else.

[Luzahn]

I am glad that we were able to purge all of the reaper-ness from the galaxy. As long as it doesn't destroy the setting, that is.

[Landis963]

I had assumed that Capitol losses were extremely rare. I forget the name of the planet, but in ME2 we see the remnants of a reaper that was destroyed as the last act of a civilization. Kind of implied that they die infrequently.

The name of the planet is Mnemosyne, and it took a direct hit from a giant gun (incidentally, a miss slammed into Klendagon, a whole star system away, and created the Great Rift) to deactivate it.

Not sure how I feel about the galaxy rebuilding itself after the destruction of the Mass Relays. Reliance on them gave the ME universe something of a better sense of scale than most sci-fi universes have. But then, it is a good point that the main factor the mass relays were the only means of long-distance FTL travel was that they were so convenient and useful and that after they went kabloey the races of the galaxy will actually have a reason to come up with something else.

Yeah, I did like that about Mass Effect's space travel. It comes from ME1's penchant for reconstructing old sci-fi tropes (I'm sure I don't need to list examples here, but for the sake of completeness: the relays don't feel like, say, the Stargates, because they take the physics of the mass effect to their logical conclusion). I kind of missed that about ME2 and 3 (with the exception of the expansion of the collective character of the krogan in ME2 - that smacked the strongest of ME1 at it's best, but I digress), but I suppose that there was not much left to reconstruct. I wonder what was created first (out-of-universe, I mean): eezo, or the relays?

[Drascin]

Not sure how I feel about the galaxy rebuilding itself after the destruction of the Mass Relays. Reliance on them gave the ME universe something of a better sense of scale than most sci-fi universes have. But then, it is a good point that the main factor the mass relays were the only means of long-distance FTL travel was that they were so convenient and useful and that after they went kabloey the races of the galaxy will actually have a reason to come up with something else.

Better do so fast, though.

I really think the writer is suffering from a certain lack of scale, here, as is common in scifi writers. But at least is better than what we had previously, so it's progress.

[Landis963]

Better do so fast, though.

I really think the writer is suffering from a certain lack of scale, here, as is common in scifi writers. But at least is better than what we had previously, so it's progress.

Not necessarily. The comm buoys are still up, it would take a few days at the most to get from Earth to Arcturus without the relays (assuming normal cruising speed, as I calculated in my post above), and from there to other known clusters. It will take less than a week for the Council races (and the krogan, volus, and elcor) to reconnect and maybe another to reconnect with the quarians, geth (assuming they still live), batarians, etc. and from there, trade routes can be established to help economy-driven planets like Ilium, Bekenstein, etc. get the goods they need. Not to mention, of course, that many of the Citadel's occupants are still alive and well on the wards, which happen to be detached from each other and orbiting Earth, which in turn means there's a lot of motivation to reconnect with all the other species.

[Zorg]

Joker sez: "Leave Shepard Alone!"

[Derthric]

Not necessarily. The comm buoys are still up, it would take a few days at the most to get from Earth to Arcturus without the relays (assuming normal cruising speed, as I calculated in my post above), and from there to other known clusters.

I thought the Reapers destroyed the comm bouys of systems they invaded?

It will take less than a week for the Council races (and the krogan, volus, and elcor) to reconnect and maybe another to reconnect with the quarians, geth (assuming they still live), batarians, etc. and from there, trade routes can be established to help economy-driven planets like Ilium, Bekenstein, etc. get the goods they need.

Illum was being invaded at the same time Earth was, its in the new reports you overhear when first getting to the Citadel. And the Bekenstein got Colony Dropped, Allers brings it up if you go speak to her after the Cerberus base. She was from there, the only time she borders on an emotion other than annoying.

[/quote] Not to mention, of course, that many of the Citadel's occupants are still alive and well on the wards, which happen to be detached from each other and orbiting Earth, which in turn means there's a lot of motivation to reconnect with all the other species.[/QUOTE]

This whole "no no they are all fine" feels like an asspull. How would we assume that? Or that the Relays overloaded, which is somehow ok, and not ruptured. Hopefully Weekes can do a rewrite about much of this and make it work.

I also concede the point about fuel, if they say it doesn't matter, it doesn't. I chock this all up to the fact that we have 3 sources of info, gameplay, codex, and cutscene. Gameplay says you burn fuel like a Hummer going to the supermarket, but according to them it can be handwaved. Codex says battles are avoided at visual range, every space battle we see is at visual range, easily excusable for rule of cool. I guess with conflicting sources of info this type of confusion should have been expected on their part.

But why would we know its an overload of the relays. Hell the abomination doesn't even warn Meershep of it happening.
*grumbles*

I am sticking to headcanon until the EC and then will make a new judgement.

[HalfTangible]

I thought the Reapers destroyed the comm bouys of systems they invaded?



Illum was being invaded at the same time Earth was, its in the new reports you overhear when first getting to the Citadel. And the Bekenstein got Colony Dropped, Allers brings it up if you go speak to her after the Cerberus base. She was from there, the only time she borders on an emotion other than annoying.

Not to mention, of course, that many of the Citadel's occupants are still alive and well on the wards, which happen to be detached from each other and orbiting Earth, which in turn means there's a lot of motivation to reconnect with all the other species.

This whole "no no they are all fine" feels like an asspull. How would we assume that? Or that the Relays overloaded, which is somehow ok, and not ruptured. Hopefully Weekes can do a rewrite about much of this and make it work.

I also concede the point about fuel, if they say it doesn't matter, it doesn't. I chock this all up to the fact that we have 3 sources of info, gameplay, codex, and cutscene. Gameplay says you burn fuel like a Hummer going to the supermarket, but according to them it can be handwaved. Codex says battles are avoided at visual range, every space battle we see is at visual range, easily excusable for rule of cool. I guess with conflicting sources of info this type of confusion should have been expected on their part.

But why would we know its an overload of the relays. Hell the abomination doesn't even warn Meershep of it happening.
*grumbles*

I am sticking to headcanon until the EC and then will make a new judgement.

On the relays: I actually assumed that the energy DID work the way described =/ I thought that since the energy in the relay was being used for the catalyst effect it wouldn't be the same as the mass relay just plain exploding

[Psyren]

On the relays: I actually assumed that the energy DID work the way described =/ I thought that since the energy in the relay was being used for the catalyst effect it wouldn't be the same as the mass relay just plain exploding

I've been saying this from the start.

Though it would've saved Bioware a lot of headaches had they clarified this in-game. Hopefully the EC will do so.

[Luzahn]

Yup. I personally wasn't even aware that the relays were destroyed in non-synthesis endings at first due to a misunderstanding of the kid's dialogue.

[Landis963]

I thought the Reapers destroyed the comm bouys of systems they invaded?

It does make sense that they would do that. hm. I didn't remember them mentioning it during the game, so I just glossed over it. Or maybe I just assumed they would tap, but not destroy, them so that they could listen in on organic communications.

Illum was being invaded at the same time Earth was, its in the new reports you overhear when first getting to the Citadel. And the Bekenstein got Colony Dropped, Allers brings it up if you go speak to her after the Cerberus base. She was from there, the only time she borders on an emotion other than annoying.

Well, I'm sure those aren't the only examples of "economy-driven" worlds. Noveria comes to mind (it was essentially a proto-Ilium when we saw it in ME1) and I think the only things that we see happen to it are Cerberus attacks.

This whole "no no they are all fine" feels like an asspull. How would we assume that? Or that the Relays overloaded, which is somehow ok, and not ruptured. Hopefully Weekes can do a rewrite about much of this and make it work.

I was essentially quoting him on the survival rates of the Citadel's inhabitants, well, quoting a paraphrased response he gave to a fan interview here .

I also concede the point about fuel, if they say it doesn't matter, it doesn't. I chock this all up to the fact that we have 3 sources of info, gameplay, codex, and cutscene. Gameplay says you burn fuel like a Hummer going to the supermarket, but according to them it can be handwaved. Codex says battles are avoided at visual range, every space battle we see is at visual range, easily excusable for rule of cool. I guess with conflicting sources of info this type of confusion should have been expected on their part.

I'm thinking FTL jumps on par with whatever EDI uses to get you back to the mass relay's system whenever you run out of Helium-3 fuel.

But why would we know its an overload of the relays. Hell the abomination doesn't even warn Meershep of it happening.
*grumbles*

I am sticking to headcanon until the EC and then will make a new judgement.

Technically the abomination does warn Shepard of the mass relay's destruction. (I've gotten this line with Maleshep as well, so it's not just Femshep)

Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays.

So there you have it.

[Psyren]

By the way I found this interesting exchange between Engineer Adams and Dr. Chakwas on my second playthrough. Apparently Adams supports Synthesis:

Adams: "We need to break free of nature, and open our minds to new forms of life."

[Derthric]

It does make sense that they would do that. hm. I didn't remember them mentioning it during the game, so I just glossed over it. Or maybe I just assumed they would tap, but not destroy, them so that they could listen in on organic communications.

They cut comms, the only info getting off earth was from QEC's. The easiest and best way to cut a system is to destroy its combouys. And at the Defense committee states that they have lost communication with anything beyond the Sol Relay. So 2+2 usually equals 4 and thats what made sense to me. But Eff all that does not seem to be the rules here.

Well, I'm sure those aren't the only examples of "economy-driven" worlds. Noveria comes to mind (it was essentially a proto-Ilium when we saw it in ME1) and I think the only things that we see happen to it are Cerberus attacks.

Possibly, but we do see reapers in every system when the earth assault comes, even Noveria. Now scale of damage could be anywhere but when the reapers find an industrial center they simply glass it and move on. Its what happened to Adelaide, Ft Worth, and Bekenstein. So maybe some made it. But who knows where or truly how far away.

I was essentially quoting him on the survival rates of the Citadel's inhabitants, well, quoting a paraphrased response he gave to a fan interview here .

That's what I was responding to, not anyone here. If that's the official line, that's the official line. I just think its crazy. He states that anyone plot relevant survives. Its plot armor, but it feels like an asspull, to back out of an inferred holocaust because they didn't think we were so crazy as to infer it.

I'm thinking FTL jumps on par with whatever EDI uses to get you back to the mass relay's system whenever you run out of Helium-3 fuel.

Is that what happens? I never ran out of fuel in ME3 and all I know ME2 just ate resources. If there is some super secret ludicrous speed that could be useful for them.

Technically the abomination does warn Shepard of the mass relay's destruction. (I've gotten this line with Maleshep as well, so it's not just Femshep)


So there you have it.

I do swear I am not making that up that he did not tell me. I might need a shrink.

By the way I found this interesting exchange between Engineer Adams and Dr. Chakwas on my second playthrough. Apparently Adams supports Synthesis:

Adams: "We need to break free of nature, and open our minds to new forms of life."

I got that in all my playthroughs. Opening your mind to new forms, does not mean alter all life without consent. I took it to mean that we should see synthetics as equals. Which was something my Sheps do thanks to EDI and the geth. And is part of why I dislike synthesis. Equality and understanding can come about, without forcing a rewrite of every living thing in the galaxy. Just because I open my mind to others views or new ideas does not mean I want to convert religions or change my shirt let alone my genes. Plus you could always side with Chakwas in that debate. And it wont change that the little tyrant still makes Control and Destroy seem futile.

[Psyren]

I got that in all my playthroughs. Opening your mind to new forms, does not mean alter all life without consent. I took it to mean that we should see synthetics as equals. Which was something my Sheps do thanks to EDI and the geth. And is part of why I dislike synthesis. Equality and understanding can come about, without forcing a rewrite of every living thing in the galaxy. Just because I open my mind to others views or new ideas does not mean I want to convert religions or change my shirt let alone my genes. Plus you could always side with Chakwas in that debate. And it wont change that the little tyrant still makes Control and Destroy seem futile.

I was actually more concerned with the first half of his statement: "break free of nature." That's the part that favors synthesis, because the only way for organic life to break free of nature is by engineering it in some way. Which we already do to an extent, such as the ocular implants Alliance soldiers get, or the accidental invention of medigel. Approaching it from that angle, synthesis becomes less of a radical shift and more of a foregone conclusion.

As to getting the galaxy's consent, well it's not like you had their consent to destroy the Collector Base or give it to TIM either. Some choices make Shepard Johnny/Jenny-On-The-Spot out of necessity. No time for a galactic poll and all that.

[Derthric]

I was actually more concerned with the first half of his statement: "break free of nature." That's the part that favors synthesis, because the only way for organic life to break free of nature is by engineering it in some way. Which we already do to an extent, such as the ocular implants Alliance soldiers get, or the accidental invention of medigel. Approaching it from that angle, synthesis becomes less of a radical shift and more of a foregone conclusion.

As to getting the galaxy's consent, well it's not like you had their consent to destroy the Collector Base or give it to TIM either. Some choices make Shepard Johnny/Jenny-On-The-Spot out of necessity. No time for a galactic poll and all that.

The level of individual impact between the collector base and synthesis is at a radical difference. Synthesis reaches past all other impacts, arguably past the mass relays going ka-blooey. The other choices people can react to, reject or cope with over time as the impacts take time to influence them. Synthesis is abrupt and fundamentally alters their lives immediately. Its tyrannical in its utmost motivation and force. That is setting aside judgements of the voracity of the abomination. I admit amongst the many problems I have with synthesis is my personal ethical opinions and that will not change. However I highly doubt that is what Adams had in mind.

[Psyren]

I doubt he would have had synthesis in mind specifically, as the concept would have seemed a pipe dream prior to the Crucible. But I doubt he would object.

I wasn't presenting that exchange as proof of anything regarding Synthesis, I merely found it interesting.



Unrelated topic: Did you know there is a very GOOD reason to kill Wrex, Eve, Mordin, and destroy Maelon's data?

[kamikasei]

There is an enormous difference between the idea that different forms of life with very different substrates, such as humans, rachni, quarians, EDI, pre-upgrade geth, and post-upgrade geth, should be able to get along without conflict over "organic purity" or the like, and that we shouldn't close off any possibilities sight unseen but allow people to freely explore (transhuman... er, humans, quarians running geth processes in their suits/implants, EDI and Joker, the Feros collective) and deal with problems as they arise - and the idea that there should be one new form of life, that which results from Synthesis, and you should make the decision for everyone else. "I think people should be free to try a whole bunch of things and we should keep an open mind, I'm not willing to pass judgement on possibilities I can't even imagine yet" is not "yep, I've decided, this way is the best, we're going with this, all of us".

(And the suggestion that making a judgement call that will have some impact on everyone else through its knock-on effects is equivalent to deciding to, essentially, force a radical and invasive medical procedure that changes the very nature of their lives on literally everyone, is frankly vile.)

[Psyren]

Oh it's not perfect, and my Shepard wouldn't be totally comfortable with the decision, but for him it beats genociding the Geth or exerting very, very vague control over the Reapers for an unspecified duration in keeping with TIM's questionable beliefs. And it also beats standing there doing nothing while millions die in the sky around me by the minute.

If I had the luxury to explore other options/poll the galaxy then Synthesis would be low on my priority list. But I don't, therefore it's not.

[Dienekes]

Unrelated topic: Did you know there is a very GOOD reason to kill Wrex, Eve, Mordin, and destroy Maelon's data?

Well from a purely mechanical standpoint, that path does allow you more War Assets than the alternative.

[Calemyr]

One question still bothers me. If FTL were really no big deal and the Relays were simply conveniences rather than the lifeblood of the galaxy, why is Stargazer and his boy landbound? Why is going to space considered a "someday" proposition long after the legend of Commander Shepard has dissolved into some homogenized myth?

[Zorg]

I took it to mean 'someday' in the same way you might tell a kid they can go to Disneyland 'someday', or be an astronaut 'someday'.

While interstellar travel is common in the ME universe, it isn't something everyone does even with the relays - Kaidan comments his mum has never been offworld for instance - so even with the relays intact if you were telling a kid about space it could even be a 'someday' for them as it is no doubt expensive.

[Tome]

One question still bothers me. If FTL were really no big deal and the Relays were simply conveniences rather than the lifeblood of the galaxy, why is Stargazer and his boy landbound? Why is going to space considered a "someday" proposition long after the legend of Commander Shepard has dissolved into some homogenized myth?

Because the ending is very poorly written/thought out.

[Luzahn]

I took it to mean 'someday' in the same way you might tell a kid they can go to Disneyland 'someday', or be an astronaut 'someday'.

While interstellar travel is common in the ME universe, it isn't something everyone does even with the relays - Kaidan comments his mum has never been offworld for instance - so even with the relays intact if you were telling a kid about space it could even be a 'someday' for them as it is no doubt expensive.

I had thought that they may be a newly-developing race, that had heard of Shepard and his story from one of those archives Liara had scattered about.

Y'know, new species symbolically developing without the eventual pall of the reapers.

[Joran]

One question still bothers me. If FTL were really no big deal and the Relays were simply conveniences rather than the lifeblood of the galaxy, why is Stargazer and his boy landbound? Why is going to space considered a "someday" proposition long after the legend of Commander Shepard has dissolved into some homogenized myth?

When I saw it, I thought they were the descendents of the crashed Normandy and so they were kind of stranded on the planet with no way to get off of it. Apparently, they hadn't been found yet.

P.S. I took that ending scene as a "And that's the end of this story. There are new stories out there, tell your own."

[thugthrasher]

Oh it's not perfect, and my Shepard wouldn't be totally comfortable with the decision, but for him it beats genociding the Geth or exerting very, very vague control over the Reapers for an unspecified duration in keeping with TIM's questionable beliefs. And it also beats standing there doing nothing while millions die in the sky around me by the minute.

If I had the luxury to explore other options/poll the galaxy then Synthesis would be low on my priority list. But I don't, therefore it's not.

This was exactly my thought process in choosing Synthesis.

And as for going to the stars 'someday,' my first thought was that it was that the KID could go someday, not that ANYONE would go someday.

[Psyren]

So apparently an early concept was to have TIM be a final boss fight similar to Saren. His Reaper implants would have turned him into a monster for an epic throwdown. (See picture in spoiler from "Art of Mass Effect.")

Spoiler

Show

How cool would that have been?