Mass Effect 3.5B: Taste the Rainbow (Story and Ending Discussion; Spoilers!)

[Dienekes]

The max war assets is apparently around 7200 if you make absolutely optimal decisions.

You can't get the final scene with Shepard taking a breath, or the achievement for war assets, without playing multiplayer or the iPad game. You can get the green space magic though.

And I find that complete and utter bull****, and I have a feeling I will find it even more bull**** when the extended dlc comes out and certain scenes will only occur when you reach 4000 or 5000 in war assets. Possibly even a few characters who will only survive due to war assets. I know in my bones that'll happen, and it infuriates me. Quite possibly more than the actual bull**** ending.

Also I was bored and so I calculated this. Max points I can get with the games I have bought with no dlc and whatnot: 7092. So I can never actually unlock anything beyond 3546. Screw you Bioware, really.

[GloatingSwine]

And I find that complete and utter bull****, and I have a feeling I will find it even more bull**** when the extended dlc comes out and certain scenes will only occur when you reach 4000 or 5000 in war assets. Possibly even a few characters who will only survive due to war assets. I know in my bones that'll happen, and it infuriates me. Quite possibly more than the actual bull**** ending.

Chances are good that there will be just enough war assets in the other DLC to tip you over :P (From Ashes can give you an extra 100, f'rinstance)

Chances are good that they planned this all along.

[Psyren]

No, Shepard was trying to convince the alien races to come to Earth all along, because that's where the majority of the Reaper force was. That is literally the argument you use, especially with Primarch Victus. They're attacking the other places as well, but most of the Reapers are at Earth.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't see how this gives Shepard a ghost of a chance at talking them into anything.

[Luzahn]

I see the scene with Shepard taking a breath as being multiplayer locked as fine, even if it is questionable. It's a little bonus scene for people who invested time into the multiplayer.

Of course, that's with an assumption that all destroy endings above the synthesis unlock "count" as Shepard living in the scene, but not actually displaying it. If they really locked out shepard living in the final save to multiplayer, it would be repugnant.

[Dienekes]

Chances are good that there will be just enough war assets in the other DLC to tip you over :P (From Ashes can give you an extra 100, f'rinstance)

Chances are good that they planned this all along.

I don't buy DLC because I can barely afford the game, actually I could not afford the game I waited until I found a used one for 30 bucks. So no. Still **** them. When I buy a game I expect to get the entire damn game.

[thegurullamen]

I don't buy DLC because I can barely afford the game, actually I could not afford the game I waited until I found a used one for 30 bucks. So no. Still **** them. When I buy a game I expect to get the entire damn game.

I'm with this guy. I have the game on XBox, so I can't do multiplayer unless I invest another 15-30 into XBox Gold (such a stupid service, but that's another thing entirely). Same thing with the iOS app--I own nothing with the i prefix nor do I plan to anytime in the future. I'm stuck with 50% readiness for every playthrough.

[Aeryr]

On the multiplayer bull**** on xbox.

Yes it's a pain in the ass to have to pay on xbox live in order to get the """""live""""" ending but you can raise you readiness to 100% in a weekend or less (there is a 2 day "free" gold included in the game) and if after getting your readiness to 100% you disconect the xbox from the internet (pull the cable) it won't drop, otherwise it will drop a little everyday (I was really mad when after getting it to 100% it dropped to 98%).

It's a ****ty solution but that would work to unlock any ending you want. If you bought it second hand so no multiplayer and no free gold... I recomend using head canon, it's not like the ending is good in the first place.

[ShinyRocks]

'kay, so I just checked, and my Shep has 7,178 War Assets. Take away 75 for my promoted team and 100 for From Dust and that's 7,103. Nothing like enough to get the best endings at 50% readiness.

I actually quite enjoy the multiplayer, more than I thought I would, but that really isn't the point.

You can't get the best endings without multiplayer (or the iPhone game). That is appalling. And they lied about it. Even the free 2-day gold trial assumes people are going to have broadband access freely available. Lots of people do, but by no means everyone.

I mean, maybe that's why the endings are so rubbish. They thought 'Well, we'll make it so that you can't get the best ending without multiplayer, but make them all so stupid, lacking in sense, and short, that it's pretty much impossible to distinguish what's good from what's bad'.

I got mad when they announced multiplayer. Then they said it wasn't essential and was just an extra and I thought okay, fine. Then I saw Galactic Readiness and was like 'Hmmm.... That's a bit odd'. And now people have done the math, and I'm super-mad again. They've robbed people who don't want to, or simply can't, play multiplayer, from experiencing the best of a game that they've probably invested a hundred hours in across three chapters.

And it's so clearly a money-spinning exercise. Again, I quite enjoy the multiplayer, but that's not the point. They don't have to host any servers. And they let you buy the Packs with actual money. Given the thousands and thousands of people that will be playing, it only takes a few of them to say 'screw it' and pay cash for a couple of Premium Spectre Packs to give a steady income stream.

ETA: Which is not to say I object to companies making money. But it rubs me the wrong way when a now-required element of a previously single-player game just *happens* to also give you the chance to spend real money.

And the decay rate is a symptom of the same thing. They're forcing you to keep playing, and the more you play, the greater the chance you finally just lay down some cash for the Packs.

And I swear the decay has got faster; I'm losing 4% in less than 24 hours.

[Calemyr]

The higher the readiness, the faster the decay, I'm afraid.

[Trazoi]

I've finally finished Mass Effect 3 while avoiding the brunt of most spoilers floating around the internet, so now I can peek into this thread and comment about the ending...

...ha ha really Bioware? You were stuck for an ending for your epic trilogy so you decided to attempt to rip off Deus Ex, but ended up ripping off Fable 2? And badly at that?

And I was really getting into the game too. Sure, it had a lot of holes and other flaws, but I was liking the desperate tone the game had, right up to the last fifteen minutes or so. I guess when I replay I can quit at that point and make up my own ending, such as Shepard winning by punching out Harbinger.

Where the heck was Harbinger in that ending anyway?
No, a mention in radio chatter doesn't cut it.

[Calemyr]

He's the one attacking you during the dead run. After he takes everyone out, he flies off as you're getting back up. Why? Who knows. It makes no sense, but that's the ending in a nutshell.

[blackjack217]

When the Collectors failed, they'd run out of backup plans.



It's mentioned multiple times that the bulk of the Reapers' forces are at Earth. That's why you are gathering the galaxy's forces to go there, as opposed to anywhere else.

Also, they had to wage a galaxy wide war, they couldn't just ignore the turians or the asari like they wanted to.

[Psyren]

Also, they had to wage a galaxy wide war, they couldn't just ignore the turians or the asari like they wanted to.

"Not wanting to ignore them" and "waging war on three fronts simultaneously" are very different though. The latter requires overwhelming force to be able to pull off.

[Trazoi]

He's the one attacking you during the dead run. After he takes everyone out, he flies off as you're getting back up. Why? Who knows. It makes no sense, but that's the ending in a nutshell.

I assumed that was Harbinger when I first saw it, but since it didn't really go anywhere or matter I don't think it counts either.

Man, I now know why the internet was all babbling about that ending a few days after release. Talk about a disaster for Bioware. I was planning on a whole new trilogy playthough too later in the year, but right now I'm not sure it's worth it. It's weird because the other milestone missions like Tuchanka and the Geth/Quarian were pretty good. (The ones with whats-his-face the Cerebrus biotic ninja assassin guy, less so.)

On important non-ending related matters: if Miranda's father is an Aussie named Henry Lawson, where was his moustache?

[Calemyr]

I assumed that was Harbinger when I first saw it, but since it didn't really go anywhere or matter I don't think it counts either.

Man, I now know why the internet was all babbling about that ending a few days after release. Talk about a disaster for Bioware. I was planning on a whole new trilogy playthough too later in the year, but right now I'm not sure it's worth it. It's weird because the other milestone missions like Tuchanka and the Geth/Quarian were pretty good. (The ones with whats-his-face the Cerebrus biotic ninja assassin guy, less so.)

On important non-ending related matters: if Miranda's father is an Aussie named Henry Lawson, where was his moustache?

I know how you feel. I remember reading the space-edition reviews of the game and dismissing them as unsatisfiable brats who couldn't see the deeper meaning in the ending. I believed there had to be a deeper meaning, that Bioware would never do something this stupid, especially after DA2's reception. It had to be the players, it just had to be.

It wasn't. And then Bioware defended it as "art". It's depressing how fast the pedestal I had put them on crumbled when faced with the truth.

[Psyren]

To be fair, obviously they aren't defending it too strenuously, or they'd have said it's fine and never deigned to release free DLC to clear things up. That was a totally optional (and expensive) move on their part and it shows they haven't totally lost their souls just yet.

[Aeryr]

To be fair, obviously they aren't defending it too strenuously, or they'd have said it's fine and never deigned to release free DLC to clear things up. That was a totally optional (and expensive) move on their part and it shows they haven't totally lost their souls just yet.

They are defending it too strenuously. They keep calling it art, claiming artistic integrity, the endings are fine it is just that fans are stupid and don't get the differences between the 16 endings so Bioware cedes to fans and will expend a lot of money to make a clarification DLC.

Because as it is the ending is great, but the fans need to be apeaced.

The extended cut DLC is great since it adresses the biggest flaws of the ending change of tone, lack of player decisions and space magic... wait it is specifically not adressing those problems... I fear the extended cut free DLC is not what fans asked for (oh, maybe is part of it, but it is like ordering a steak at a restaurant and getting spinnach as appetizers, sure they were with your order but the important stuff is the steak).

Overall it seems a smoke screen to just gain some time (it's going to take till "summer") and make the fans look like conceited brats. Let's be fair though and wait till summer and see for ourselves what the hell is going to happen (personally I'll watch it on youtube before downloading it).

[polity4life]

You know, I was disappointed that you have a time limit once you enter the Crucible. I was putzing around, trying to shoot different things for the lulz then I was told the Crucible was destroyed. Thanks Sword and Shield fleets!

I reloaded and had way less time to dawdle. I had to walk towards my ending of "choice" immediately and I would barely make it. If I hesitated, the Crucible would blow up again.

[Psyren]

Because as it is the ending is great, but the fans need to be apeaced.

Conceptually the endings are sound. There's too many gaps that the fans have to fill but from a broad view they're all interesting and engaging, and the choice is difficult, which means Bioware succeeded to a degree.

The extended cut DLC is great since it adresses the biggest flaws of the ending change of tone, lack of player decisions and space magic... wait it is specifically not adressing those problems...

I'm in the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" camp on this one.

I fear the extended cut free DLC is not what fans asked for (oh, maybe is part of it, but it is like ordering a steak at a restaurant and getting spinnach as appetizers, sure they were with your order but the important stuff is the steak).

...Spinach? What? I don't understand this analogy at all.

Overall it seems a smoke screen to just gain some time (it's going to take till "summer") and make the fans look like conceited brats. Let's be fair though and wait till summer and see for ourselves what the hell is going to happen (personally I'll watch it on youtube before downloading it).

1) A very unfortunately vocal minority of the fans ARE conceited brats, like the guys who vote-bombed EA into being a worse company than Wal-mart and BP, or the guys who want to burn money on a pointless billboard to protest the endings. But any missteps those fans make due to impatience or prejudgment can't be laid at Bioware's door.

2) This DLC is an ambitious undertaking and is going to take time. For instance, at the time they announced the DLC, Meer and Hale hadn't even been contacted yet for VO work, yet they are definitely getting new lines to say. So summer seems perfectly reasonable to me, especially since it's already April.

[Calemyr]

To be fair, obviously they aren't defending it too strenuously, or they'd have said it's fine and never deigned to release free DLC to clear things up. That was a totally optional (and expensive) move on their part and it shows they haven't totally lost their souls just yet.

You're right, they are attempting to make it right, now. It is extremely important to me that they're even trying, though I'll withhold judgment on the attempt until I've seen what they do.

[thugthrasher]

I don't buy DLC because I can barely afford the game, actually I could not afford the game I waited until I found a used one for 30 bucks. So no. Still **** them. When I buy a game I expect to get the entire damn game.

I don't get this.

From what I've seen, without any DLC, you can get 7729 war assets in Mass Effect 3. This means you have enough for all of the endings without the multiplayer (3864.5 war assets).

If you do the multiplayer, then you MIGHT get a short scene (I think it's < 20 seconds) that implies Shepard lives. This doesn't change anything else about any other part of the ending. So, you paid 30 dollars for a game and the only part you are missing out on is <20 seconds. And only if you choose one specific ending do you get that scene. It changes nothing about the rest of the ending.

The only way your complaint is anything more nothing, is if this free ending DLC (which you should be able to get, as it's free) that expands on the ending only lets Shepard live if you get that little cutscene.


You got 99.9% of the game (assuming you don't count multiplayer. If you do count it, but don't play multiplayer, then you don't get the whole of ANY game you have that has multiplayer, so it's a moot point). You missed out on one tiny thing that doesn't give you much (and, again, is only available if you choose one specific choice at the end). There is actually currently little reason to believe Shepard doesn't live in the 'lesser' Destroy ending (and perhaps even the other endings) if he lives in that one, as nothing else about the entire scene leading up to the ending is different, as far as I know (starkid still says you're going to die, even in the 'extra' ending).


If they had locked you out of much of the 'good' parts of the ending without the multiplayer, then you have a point. If the 'expanded' DLC ending specifically says Shep is dead if you don't get high enough (but is alive if you get more assets than you can get in SP), THEN you have a point. But as it stands, you didn't really lose out on anything.

I play the multiplayer. I had 100% readiness. I had like 6.8K war assets. I didn't see the 'extra' scene during my playthrough (the only reason I've seen it now is that I went out of my way to watch the other endings on youtube). What amount of game did I get that you didn't?

There are a lot of things to be pissed at Bioware about with these endings. This isn't really that big a deal.

[Trazoi]

Conceptually the endings are sound. There's too many gaps that the fans have to fill but from a broad view they're all interesting and engaging, and the choice is difficult, which means Bioware succeeded to a degree.

Maybe in the very broad sense, like if those where the end results of actions made by Shepard in a hypothetical different final mission where he/she is running around the Crucible trying to stop the Illusive Man from gaining control of the Reapers, and maybe is given the choice between destroying the Reapers and leaving the galaxy in ruins or merging with Harbinger and being able to rebuild. But the tone of the ending as it is is completely at odds with the rest of the series.

I'm not sure the choices to destroy all AI in the galaxy or to merge them instantly will ever work, because that's far too much like literal magic even for a space opera like Mass Effect. The whole thing smacked of a false difficulty in the choice without putting in the effort to make it work in the setting.

[ShinyRocks]

Thing is, the endings are incredibly brief and provide no detail on ... pretty much anything. So it's fair to assume that any detail you do see is relevant. And I really don't buy the 'Shepard is alive, but this time you SEE him alive' argument.

They show you barely anything at all, so anything extra I will consider to be something different, not just leaving the camera running a bit longer.

[Calemyr]

I for one, don't think the ending is beyond saving. "Space maaaaaaagiiiic" is a freaking cornerstone of this series. Between biotics, mass relays, universal translators that somehow stumble over Spanish... A lot of this game is based on things that are explained away as "it's too complicated to explain fully. It just works, okay? Meet us halfway, eh?"

If the kid were properly introduced (and possibly officially tied to Klencory), his logic was better thought out, and Shep allowed to call him out on any perceived flaws in the logic, that part of the ending could be salvaged quite handily.

Where the majority of the work (in my head) needs to be done is the land war and the aftermath. The land war was a perfect chance for the war assets you have to shine. In the vanilla game the opportunity was wasted - the clips are identical in any case, and only one scene has non-party aliens take part at all (fall of the destroyer). As many cutscenes as plausible with the assets in action would be huge here. And what the actual ending needs is closure.

The extended cut could fix it all, if they let someone with actual talent do it this time. I know they have such people - 95% of this game is proof of that fact.

[Psyren]

I don't get this.

From what I've seen, without any DLC, you can get 7729 war assets in Mass Effect 3. This means you have enough for all of the endings without the multiplayer (3864.5 war assets).

The 4000 EMS scene could be important though. Hopefully if it is, they will remove the multiplayer gate to seeing it.

But the tone of the ending as it is is completely at odds with the rest of the series.

I never got this argument. The tone of ME 3 in general is at odds with the rest of the series, so why wouldn't the ending be? There's no open galaxy to explore (you're in fact punished for doing so), and no galactic mystery to solve. Instead, the game starts, war was beginning, and from there on your path is pretty set. Whereas the other two games encouraged exploration (yes, even ME2: "We need every advantage we can to beat the Collectors, Shepard"), ME3 actively makes you feel bad about wandering from the beaten path - labelling story missions "Priority," and having background NPCs/squadmates constantly talk about how many people are dying or systems are being snuffed out.

They show you barely anything at all, so anything extra I will consider to be something different, not just leaving the camera running a bit longer.

How so? If all you know is "Shep's alive" then anything that goes "Shep's alive, then this happens" isn't a change, it's an expansion.

[ShinyRocks]

How so? If all you know is "Shep's alive" then anything that goes "Shep's alive, then this happens" isn't a change, it's an expansion.

But isn't the last twitchy hand scene the only indication that Shep *is* alive?

Starkid doesn't say 'this will kill you' for Destruction, true, but Starkid is kind of a jerk, so stuff kablooming = dead Shep seems a fair assumption.

[Aeryr]

Conceptually the endings are sound. There's too many gaps that the fans have to fill but from a broad view they're all interesting and engaging, and the choice is difficult, which means Bioware succeeded to a degree.

The endings conceptually are sound, I do agree with that. Although at least in my opinion the problem of the ending is not having to use your head to figure what is going on but the change of pace from the game. I mean, the Shepard that I played to the very ending would have choosen none of the presented options. I feel that I am not the only one that feels that way.

I'm in the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" camp on this one.

At least we would get to see both the quarian fleet and the geth fleet at the same time. I hope.

...Spinach? What? I don't understand this analogy at all.

Maybe it was a wrong analogy, let me expand on it. You are at a restaurant and you order a steak, there the steak is served with spinachs, french fries and tomatoes. Half an hour later they tell you that they are going to bring your spinachs in an hour or something. I do want those spinachs (or in this case more clarity) but what I really want (what I thought that I was paying for) is the steak (an ending that my Shepard would take).

1) A very unfortunately vocal minority of the fans ARE conceited brats, like the guys who vote-bombed EA into being a worse company than Wal-mart and BP, or the guys who want to burn money on a pointless billboard to protest the endings. But any missteps those fans make due to impatience or prejudgment can't be laid at Bioware's door.

2) This DLC is an ambitious undertaking and is going to take time. For instance, at the time they announced the DLC, Meer and Hale hadn't even been contacted yet for VO work, yet they are definitely getting new lines to say. So summer seems perfectly reasonable to me, especially since it's already April.

It is going to be a well spent time? That's my problem with the DLC. Is there any written confirmation on BW part that Meer and Hale are getting more lines? Shepard dies at the ending, why would (s)he speak more?

[Calemyr]

I never got this argument. The tone of ME 3 in general is at odds with the rest of the series, so why wouldn't the ending be? There's no open galaxy to explore (you're in fact punished for doing so), and no galactic mystery to solve. Instead, the game starts, war was beginning, and from there on your path is pretty set. Whereas the other two games encouraged exploration (yes, even ME2: "We need every advantage we can to beat the Collectors, Shepard"), ME3 actively makes you feel bad about wandering from the beaten path - labelling story missions "Priority," and having background NPCs/squadmates constantly talk about how many people are dying or systems are being snuffed out.

The major themes of "never give up, never surrender" and "earn your happy ending" are, however, carried through in ME3 all the way to the finale, at which point they are dropped like a prothean joke.

It is going to be a well spent time? That's my problem with the DLC. Is there any written confirmation on BW part that Meer and Hale are getting more lines? Shepard dies at the ending, why would (s)he speak more?

Well, they'd almost certainly want to redo the conversation with the kid, at least, and Meer and Hale are responsible for both sides of that dialogue. They say they want to clarify the ending without changing it, and that conversation is the focal point of confusion, so it's what needs to be clarified most.

[Psyren]

But isn't the last twitchy hand scene the only indication that Shep *is* alive?

Starkid doesn't say 'this will kill you' for Destruction, true, but Starkid is kind of a jerk, so stuff kablooming = dead Shep seems a fair assumption.

It's not a "twitchy hand" - it's a shot of Shep inhaling, which is much harder to do if you're dead.

And yes, it would be a fair assumption, but for the shot of Shep taking a breath which throws his/her death into question.

The endings conceptually are sound, I do agree with that. Although at least in my opinion the problem of the ending is not having to use your head to figure what is going on but the change of pace from the game. I mean, the Shepard that I played to the very ending would have choosen none of the presented options. I feel that I am not the only one that feels that way.

None of them are perfect, I agree with that. But what other option do you have?
It's like rewriting vs. destroying the heretics. My Shepard would ideally do neither, but he doesn't really have a choice in the matter - the consequences for doing neither are far worse, and there's no time to come up with a more elegant solution. Or the choice to blow the Alpha Relay in Arrival, which is no choice at all (and which, in my mind, is the primary signal for the tonal shift in the series.)

Maybe it was a wrong analogy, let me expand on it. You are at a restaurant and you order a steak, there the steak is served with spinachs, french fries and tomatoes. Half an hour later they tell you that they are going to bring your spinachs in an hour or something. I do want those spinachs (or in this case more clarity) but what I really want (what I thought that I was paying for) is the steak (an ending that my Shepard would take).

I'm still not sure I get this analogy, but if I'm reading it right I would say that Bioware promised you a hearty meal, not specifically steak. If you went in expecting steak, or steak cooked to your specifications, you could understandably leave disappointed. Or something.

It is going to be a well spent time? That's my problem with the DLC. Is there any written confirmation on BW part that Meer and Hale are getting more lines? Shepard dies at the ending, why would (s)he speak more?

Yes - a fan asked Gamble about it the VO stuff on Twitter and referenced Hale's interview where she said she hadn't been approached yet for more lines. Gamble's response was that "all that is underway."

[ShinyRocks]

It's not a "twitchy hand" - it's a shot of Shep inhaling, which is much harder to do if you're dead.

And yes, it would be a fair assumption, but for the shot of Shep taking a breath which throws his/her death into question.

But that's my point. You only get that scene (apologies for describing it wrongly btw) with 4,000 (or 5,000 if you don't persuade TIM) EMS. And you can't get that much without playing multiplayer (or iPhone).

To my mind, if you don't get that scene, Shepard isn't alive. (Because, as I said, in an ending that's so sparse on detail, every detail counts.) Everything goes boom, the end. Reapers dead, Geth dead, Shepard dead, EDI maybe dead.

Some people are viewing it as 'this scene just shows you what's happening in every ending, as a treat', and that's fine. I totally appreciate that logic. But I can't make my mind work like that. Because the EMS is so important for other stuff, it just makes more sense to me that it decides whether Shep lives or dies, rather than just deciding whether you get to see another short scene of what's already happening regardless.