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    Post Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    If the half-orc is the worst designed race in the PHB, the halfling is potentially the silliest, and the gnome is the least unique, the half-elf is the absolute plainest race WotC ever made. You can argue with what I said about the other races, but IMO it's absolutely undebatable that the half-elf is a hollow, flavorless, crunch-less hybrid species that has no individual flavor.

    WotC does this a lot with their half-breeds. They don't seem to understand that if you make a hybrid race, you can't just find a middle point between the two ancestral races. To justify a race on its own, the said race needs its own identity. If I gave you a half-elf with the human's skill points but no bonus feat, the elf's low-light vision but no weapon proficiencies, and called it a race, well, I'd be surprised, no, shocked, if anyone wanted to play it.

    That being said, I'm not sure about the flavor I've developed for my half elf. I personally like it, but others might have doubts and this rewrite might call for an elf redux in the future.

    The Half-Elf

    The half-elf is not a crying loner. He is not a silly little wanderer or wannabe druid. The half-elf has embraced the darkness within him since birth, and if he didn't, he died. The magical strength of the elves and the greedy ambition of the humans is epitomized in their offspring, power-hungry but beautiful men and women who cannot imagine a world where they cannot always, in the end, come out on top.

    Personality: Half-elves are extremely charismatic and confident, seeming to always know what's best or how to please someone. Many find half-elves to be charming but in a sort of off-beat way, and half-elves have no qualms about putting others to the side if it benefits their own goals. In combat, half-elves are silent and determined, refusing to ever be stopped.

    Physical Description: Half-elves are slightly taller than a normal human and have very slightly pointed ears. Their eyes slant, but not the same way elves do and they have much sturdier frames than those ancestors. Half-elves maintain some sort of natural grace but their's is much more...rough, more a force of personality than actual physical beauty.

    Relations: Most races have no particular views on half-elves since they're not really a race, strictly speaking. Individual half-elves usually have no problem getting people to like them, except of course for orcs. Half-orcs can sometimes identify with half-elves, sometimes not. It depends.

    Alignment: A self-centered race, most half-elves are chaotic, though the go all ways on the good-evil axis.

    Half-Elf Lands: Half-elves have no lands to call their own. They are usually raised by elves (since humans don't really live long enough to raise them normally) but don't stick around long after adulthood, preferring the pursuit of their own ambitions and exploring.

    Religion: The dark gods half-elves make pacts with often is reflected in their religion, and even neutral half-elves will sometimes worship demon lords or dark gods like Hextor. Most are raised on Corellon Larethian's doctrine, but almost none identify with his teachings, and the only nonevil deity they worship with anything approaching regularity is Boccob.

    Language: Half-elves are raised speaking both elven and common, and often enjoy expanding their repertoire of languages.

    Adventures: Half-elves adventure however it suites their goals, which usually involves the acquisition of power somehow. Wether this starts with them finding gold or artifacts or simply testing their strength, half-elves have many reasons to go adventuring.

    Half-Elf Racial Traits
    +2 Charisma. Half-elves have strong personalities and many people enjoy their company.
    Medium. As medium creatures half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties based on size.
    Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.
    +2 Racial Bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks.
    Immunity to sleep and similar effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects.
    Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color in these conditions.
    Eldritch Strength: A half elf adds their charisma modifier to their will saves instead of their wisdom modifier.
    4 Bonus Skill Points at 1st level.
    Hybrid Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf and a human.
    Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Any.
    Favored Class: Warlock.

    So there you go. Not sure if it came out how I wanted it to, but I personally like it. PEACH
    Last edited by Empedocles; 2012-04-11 at 11:44 PM.
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    Post Re: My Ears are Still Pointy!!!: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Reserved for racial stuff (warlock substitution levels and a paragon class come to mind...)
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    The point of "half elf" as a race, flavorwise, has generally been the "torn between worlds" theme, and the idea that they aren't truly distinct from humans or elves.

    This build seems too specifically aimed at a single class to me, as adding to a specific class ability is a bit odd - even more so than the gnomes' illusion bonus, which you seem to agree with me, are terribly uninspired in design.

    Sadly, I'm having trouble thinking of other suggestions, but it seems like some option to represent choosing between elf and human heritage might be good. Possibly something with skill or proficiency options.
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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess View Post
    The point of "half elf" as a race, flavorwise, has generally been the "torn between worlds" theme, and the idea that they aren't truly distinct from humans or elves.

    This build seems too specifically aimed at a single class to me, as adding to a specific class ability is a bit odd - even more so than the gnomes' illusion bonus, which you seem to agree with me, are terribly uninspired in design.

    Sadly, I'm having trouble thinking of other suggestions, but it seems like some option to represent choosing between elf and human heritage might be good. Possibly something with skill or proficiency options.
    I actually...agree with you. What I failed to get across in the text is that (my) half-elf comes across as a sort of charismatic wonderkind but is all dark and torn up inside. My fluff, I hate to say, came out almost as uninspired as that of the gnomes

    A also need to fix the eldritch power thing. I wanted them to have a unique ability that reflected the intended fluff...but I came at it the wrong way.
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    I agree that "Bonus to Warlock" is bad design for the Half-Elf, as would be any racial feature that granted bonuses to a specific class.

    I do like the rest of the fluff, a very charismatic, ego-centric race of people that have very powerful personalities. It shouldn't be difficult to replace the Warlock power with something else.

    It could be as simple as "Half-Elves add their Charisma modifier to Will saves instead of their Wisdom modifier."
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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    I agree that "Bonus to Warlock" is bad design for the Half-Elf, as would be any racial feature that granted bonuses to a specific class.

    I do like the rest of the fluff, a very charismatic, ego-centric race of people that have very powerful personalities. It shouldn't be difficult to replace the Warlock power with something else.

    It could be as simple as "Half-Elves add their Charisma modifier to Will saves instead of their Wisdom modifier."
    Done. My brain just got stupid when I made this lol
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    Done. My brain just got stupid when I made this lol
    Whoa, Wisdom and Charisma modifier seems to be a bit much. My thought was that there's the Insightful Reflexes feat that replaces Dex to Reflex with Int to Reflex, so Cha to Will instead of Wis should be worth a feat. And we all know that a preselected feat is worth less than one you get to pick for yourself, so getting that shouldn't be too bad with all the other stuff.

    Also, now I worry that the race is too strong. Without a penalty to an ability score, they are basically the ultimate Sorcerer race with that bonus to Cha and Cha to Will. But, then, no penalty to ability scores makes sense... Hrmm...
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2012-04-11 at 09:58 PM.
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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Whoa, Wisdom and Charisma modifier seems to be a bit much. My thought was that there's the Insightful Reflexes feat that replaces Dex to Reflex with Int to Reflex, so Cha to Will instead of Wis should be worth a feat. And we all know that a preselected feat is worth less than one you get to pick for yourself, so getting that shouldn't be too bad with all the other stuff.

    Also, now I worry that the race is too strong. Without a penalty to an ability score, they are basically the ultimate Sorcerer race with that bonus to Cha and Cha to Will. But, then, no penalty to ability scores makes sense... Hrmm...
    I personally disagree with that being overpowered but I changed it.

    My logic is that as 3.5 got more and more books, and thereby more and more feats, the human's bonus feat became obscenely versatile whereas a predetermined feat (usually from Core or Complete x) is pretty restrictive and only helpful with specific builds, especially since charisma is a common dump stat.
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    A real problem I have with hybrid races (and I'm sorry to say that yours perpetuates the problem) is the tendency to fixate on the non-human parent. You do this specifically with your elven blood racial trait. Why is the half-elf treated as an elf, but not as a human? Humans have a few nice race-specific feats and prestige classes (Able Learner and the Chameleon immediately spring to mind, as does Jotunbrud).

    If your race is truly a "hybrid", it should be equally elven and human.

    Edit: To be clear, I believe you should change the race to be treated as both an elf and a human at all times.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2012-04-11 at 10:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Because we as humans are more curious about the difference :) That and the whole mantra that elves can see better, hear better, look prettier, are smarter, and have seemingly better everything.. I couldn't blame a half elf for wanting to be more elfy. Shoot, if I were half elf I'd probably be disappointed I wasn't full out elf.

    (OTOH, elves don't exist in real life so there's no problem :D)
    Last edited by OoTLink; 2012-04-11 at 10:49 PM.
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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    The basic idea of half-x races in D&D has usually been to take something generally unplayable for PCs without major modifications and bring it "closer to home." The half-orc is an excellent example of this (see my half-orc redux in the sig much better than this...) but the issue with half-elves is that they can't really do this since elves are already quite humanish.
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    I rather like this one, though I would've given it the full human bonus skills.
    I think I've had enough for a while.

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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    I rather like this one, though I would've given it the full human bonus skills.
    Hmmm that actually makes sense given the fluff. Glad you like it, by the way, although I myself don't enjoy it as much as my half-orc or voldur
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Vilpich, I'll be honest with you, I have a bit of a problem with this race. Not with the crunch, which I quite frankly think is pretty dang good, but with the fluff...why would this race, which has neither parent as commonly non-good, be non-good primarily? I mean, I get it, this is a race that is charismatic, self-focused, and selfish, but apart from the selfishness(And even this could be debated based on degree and reasoning.), none of those traits scream Non-Good to me. Quite frankly, I think it could still be an even split among all alignments race...apart from that, it's really cool.
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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrambledBrains View Post
    Vilpich, I'll be honest with you, I have a bit of a problem with this race. Not with the crunch, which I quite frankly think is pretty dang good, but with the fluff...why would this race, which has neither parent as commonly non-good, be non-good primarily? I mean, I get it, this is a race that is charismatic, self-focused, and selfish, but apart from the selfishness(And even this could be debated based on degree and reasoning.), none of those traits scream Non-Good to me. Quite frankly, I think it could still be an even split among all alignments race...apart from that, it's really cool.
    Hmmm ok I see what you're saying. That makes sense...I'll change it.
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrambledBrains View Post
    Why would this race, which has neither parent as commonly non-good, be non-good primarily? I mean, I get it, this is a race that is charismatic, self-focused, and selfish, but apart from the selfishness(And even this could be debated based on degree and reasoning.), none of those traits scream Non-Good to me. Quite frankly, I think it could still be an even split among all alignments race...apart from that, it's really cool.
    I'm inclined to agree with this. While the default psychiatric profile you're describing is, honestly, awesome, it fits a single character concept better than everyone with both Elf and Human genetic material.

    Maybe say that they tend to be self-centered, rise to leadership easily, etc. You can be a self-centered prat and still do the right thing on a regular basis. Or you can be a narcissistic clubber of baby seals. If anything, it would make you more neutral. (Me first is neutral, me first and crap on second is evil)

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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyntonian View Post
    I'm inclined to agree with this. While the default psychiatric profile you're describing is, honestly, awesome, it fits a single character concept better than everyone with both Elf and Human genetic material.

    Maybe say that they tend to be self-centered, rise to leadership easily, etc. You can be a self-centered prat and still do the right thing on a regular basis. Or you can be a narcissistic clubber of baby seals. If anything, it would make you more neutral. (Me first is neutral, me first and crap on second is evil)

    Crunch is as good as I've come to expect from you and your work. Remember I said I'd keep an eye on it? I have been. Keep it up!
    Hmmm I think that with this race I sort of messed up the wording with my fluff. That being said, you guys are making good points on the alignment.

    I'm going to let this sit for a minute, get some more feedback, and write up a race I'm actually confident about called the Sirens (half elf, half harpy, all weird. Concerned about LA though).
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    I'm going to let this sit for a minute, get some more feedback, and write up a race I'm actually confident about called the Sirens (half elf, half harpy, all weird. Concerned about LA though).
    I'd love to see that. Though i recommend using a different name. The name Siren is already used in fantasy and could lead to confusion on that

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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Amburst View Post
    I'd love to see that. Though i recommend using a different name. The name Siren is already used in fantasy and could lead to confusion on that
    I'll think about what to change it to. As the fluff develops, I've gotten more ideas for names.
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    instead of...
    +2 Racial Bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks.

    perhaps this might be more interesting...
    +1 racial bonus on skill checks that benefit from a synergy bonus.



    also... don't forget to give them...
    +1 racial bonus to Listen, Search and Spot checks.

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    Post Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Andion Isurand View Post
    instead of...
    +2 Racial Bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks.

    perhaps this might be more interesting...
    +1 racial bonus on skill checks that benefit from a synergy bonus.



    also... don't forget to give them...
    +1 racial bonus to Listen, Search and Spot checks.
    I like the synergy thing, but I am cutting listen, search and spot since these guys are meant to be all self centered.
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    I like the synergy thing, but I am cutting listen, search and spot since these guys are meant to be all self centered.
    The bonus is all about having keen senses, nothing to do with being selfish or not
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    Default Re: Half-elf redux (3.5) PLEASE PEACH

    Hmmmmm... I'm not too sure about this, but what if the human versatility* and the elvish magic-wielding** combine to give a +2 Int to the Half-elf? Since they are so self-centered, they may suffer a -2 to Wis and actually not receive the skill bonuses elves do. I know, it might be a weak start to a race, designing the ability modifiers before everything else, but it might be useful to see another balancing point between humans and elves than the one taken in by WotC.

    * Basically, the extra skillpoint per level.
    ** Both the Wizard favored class and the tendency elves have to nurture art and knowledge.
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