General Exalted Discussion Thread X: Playground Cosmic Principle

[Lix Lorn]

I'm... not so sure. Part of me says "if that's what the player wants and nobody else has a problem with it, why not? Just have fun." But the other part of me is stubbornly annoyed at the prospect of ignoring all the Infernal themes and just taking the cool powers. Why not simply leave off the green paint and simply play a Solar if that's what you're going for...?

(Yes yes, cool powers, but that's the part that bugs me.)

Cause there are stories you can tell with someone who didn't get the 'right' exaltation.

[horngeek]

Mmmm. I've always been very firm that Abyssal Exaltation candidates should be those who get killed attempting to perform a Solar-Worthy Deed.

So, Infernals are those who could have performed a Solar-Worthy Deed, but either a) back down or b) get kicked back down instead, and manage to survive the process of being kicked back down.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yeah, the line is blurry at times. But I definitely think the coward or the anti-hero who took a look at his opportunity for heroism and went, "yeah, **** that" is a valid Infernal character.

Yeah. My first attempt at an Infernal was someone who never even fell morally in the first place. He basically just was in a circumstance where an Infernal exaltation was around rather than a Solar one. On reflection, I don't like it. An Infernal needs a fall, not simply a "bad" exaltation and some prodding from some demons.

The character I'm making now, the one that's going to be my signature, failed to stand against his best friend's execution because "there's no way I can fight a Dragon-Blooded!". I was going to set it in Great Forks, but now I'm thinking a smaller port city, due to the fact that an overarrogant, overzealous Outcaste Dragon-Blooded taking his Divine Mandate to do whatever he wants too seriously, simply can't get away with whatever he wants in Great Forks, due to the large number of elementals and spirits and some Fair Folk, who can all beat him down in numbers.

And a question. Is it plausible, at all (like, 1-in-a-million plausible), for a Solar and an Infernal exaltation to be in the same place, at the same time? Because there may or may not be someone else around, who did step up to the plate...

[golentan]

Exaltations do happen at a statistically higher rate in the immediate vicinity of exalts/exaltations. Something about the essence involved, IIRC from the fluff on it I read. I think it was in one of the First Age books?

Question for you guys: for anyone who runs for Alchemicals, have you ever played Xexas or Loran? How big do you make their fleets, and how much associated magitech do you give? Do you play the cities themselves as active participants in their government?

Damn but I want to try running Xexas. But I don't have time ATM.

[Rockphed]

Although regarding alliances, I think it would be best if all the PCs were all in the same group (or at least all staunch allies by the start of the game).

The friend of my friend is my friend's friend, no more, no less.

And a question. Is it plausible, at all (like, 1-in-a-million plausible), for a Solar and an Infernal exaltation to be in the same place, at the same time? Because there may or may not be someone else around, who did step up to the plate...

I'm thinking this will be how "The Unnamed Follower" exalts whenever I get around to playing him*. He goes off into the world to seek revenge for getting mocked and falls in with a yozi cultist. The cultist summons an infernal exaltation by doing some not-nice things, and TUF gets mad because of who said things were done to, and attacks his master and the demon, exalting as a solar. His (now former) master probably gets the infernal exaltation a few minutes after TUF leaves town on the last horse.

*Seeing as I currently have no books and no money for books, it will be a while.

[Kobold-Bard]

In the section of Scroll of Heroes on Heroic Mortal character creation, the Essence paragraph says of those with the Awakened Essence merit:

... The character may thereafter channel Essence for such powers as supernatural martial arts, thaumaturgy, sorcery or necromancy, or even acquired Charms.

My question is about my bolded section; what Charms can Mortals (not God-Blooded) with Awakened Essence learn?

[Lix Lorn]

Terrestrial martial Arts.
...
Currently that's it.

[Revlid]

My question is about my bolded section; what Charms can Mortals (not God-Blooded) with Awakened Essence learn?

Aside from Martial Arts and Sorcery, mortals can learn the first step of any Dragon King Dark Path. They can also use Spirit Charms from spirits within Yasal Crystals or Sapient Artifacts, and can be granted temporary Charms through Power-Awarding Prana or similar Charms.

[Kobold-Bard]

Aside from Martial Arts and Sorcery, mortals can learn the first step of any Dragon King Dark Path. They can also use Spirit Charms from spirits within Yasal Crystals or Sapient Artifacts, and can be granted temporary Charms through Power-Awarding Prana or similar Charms.

Cool, thanks.

[Volthawk]

Aside from Martial Arts and Sorcery, mortals can learn the first step of any Dragon King Dark Path. They can also use Spirit Charms from spirits within Yasal Crystals or Sapient Artifacts, and can be granted temporary Charms through Power-Awarding Prana or similar Charms.

Hmm, looking at the Dark Paths, a mortal who goes for them can:

• Eat the body of another to heal wounds
• Drink another's blood to regain Essence
• Attune to an artefact with Willpower (max artefact rating of Essence)
• When making people angry/hateful (or getting rid of a positive Intimacy), can make them have to fight and make them fight better.
• Spend motes and health levels for successes

Something of note is that nonenlightened mortals can apparently learn these too, but only the attuning one actually does anything for them - all the others have Essence costs or regain Essence, and nonenlightened mortals don't have the Essence for these to work.

Still, considering I've always thought TMA was it for them, an interesting little set of alternatives. Mind, they all have their drawbacks (two give Virtue penalties [one permanent, one only when you drink blood], another sets stuff on fire if you use it, another give penalties if you eat beings of equal or greater Essence [which, until the mortal gets Essence 2, is everything], and the last makes you have to roll Conviction or martyr yourself if given the opportunity).

[Rikandur Azebol]

Don't forget that Dark Path about attuning for WP's transform You into CoD.

But yes, with bucketloads of resources even mortals can be quite formidable in Exalted.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Alright, the "his other friend exalted saving his thief friend's life" thing was my first ideas at a redemption thing. Not sure how it'd work, but it's kinda like Yasha and Asura when Asura was in wrath mode, just having someone level-headed to look out for him.

Also, I might steal Sun Tzu for the Space Opera Creation-Ruling Mandate. Either a renegade Malefactor or an Eclipse. Zeniths are too warlike about their religion, and Fiends are not guys who try to maintain peace and minimize discord and destruction, even renegades have a hard time with that. Alternatively, I'll play my Slayer as planned, and ignore the bits about war being after all the other options have failed (having good Perception and Wits scores, as well as dots in Socialize and Awareness, gives me enough insight to be a brilliant general and knowledgeable leader, and the Malfeas Excellencies, good Charisma, high Appearance, and good Presence/Socialize give my words power).

[The Demented One]

I pretty desperately want to know the logic behind the lunar there, as big a fan of the mythos as I am. Are you allowed to share?

I'm not!

Slenderman probably isn't the best example of the themes and traits of Lunars in the modern shard. But he's something that you totally could run as a Lunar.

[The Demented One]

Wait, that doesn't make any sense; Ligier was around before Malfeas was Malfeas.

Ligier is a special case. I think there might be a small hint about how this works in the Alternate History Shard.

[horngeek]

Ligier is a special case. I think there might be a small hint about how this works in the Alternate History Shard.

*squees*

I love it when we get a developer dropping hints like that...

[HerrTenko]

TDO, I have a capital question to ask you, as long as you're around these parts:

How come your current avatar on the Playground does NOT sport a goatee?

Also Ligier is best demon, so getting to learn a bit more about him is always a good thing and, oh gosh, if he's a nice guy in Alternate Creation, I will be so very happy.

[horngeek]

TDO, I have a capital question to ask you, as long as you're around these parts:

How come your current avatar on the Playground does NOT sport a goatee?

Because The Doctor Invictus is so much more awesome.

[Lix Lorn]

Because The Doctor Invictus is so much more awesome.

Have you not seen his current WW avatar? Terrify-awesome.

[The Demented One]

TDO, I have a capital question to ask you, as long as you're around these parts:

How come your current avatar on the Playground does NOT sport a goatee?

I am a lazy man.

[HerrTenko]

So here I am with a question for you pals. Any advice on creating an "all-knowing" infernal? The lil' know-it-all annoying genius that uses his knowledge to advance his patron Yozi's agenda. Charms related to this is what I'm looking for.

[Xefas]

So here I am with a question for you pals. Any advice on creating an "all-knowing" infernal? The lil' know-it-all annoying genius that uses his knowledge to advance his patron Yozi's agenda. Charms related to this is what I'm looking for.

My suggestion is a Pyrian Malefactor.

Firstly, know that just "knowing a thing" is an ability roll, as per pg132 of the Core book. Other than their Excellencies, I don't believe there have been any primordial charms yet printed that directly modify your "know stuff" roll.

But, Infernals are very good at obtaining knowledge in other ways.

One, they're really good at summoning stuff, and the stuff they summon is fairly well disposed to be friendly to them (a suite of anti-demon Cecelyne Charms may help in this regard). You may not know some really important thing, but what about some Third Circle Soul Of Knowing Stuff? Unlike Solars, you can call up a Third Circle Demon once per month, rather than once per year. Orabilis is going to be a good choice in many cases (he can literally cry libraries at you). And many First and Second Circle Demons, while having a narrow focus, can help on shorter notice.

Two, if a demon isn't going to know, take a look at using Cecelyne's "Bestowal of Accursed Fortune". This can grant you dots of Spies, Allies, Retainers, Mentors, Backing - you name it. Need to know how to brew the best poison ever? Just slap yourself with this Charm, and soon the best poison-maker in the world will be coincidentally knocking on your door, his wagon broken down outside your cottage, requiring a part to fix it that you just randomly stumbled upon earlier that day, and now you're best friends. Err... did I say "soon"? Probably more like "in a month" but, if you're not in a hurry.

Three, while you're at it, Cecleyne is already really good at creating infrastructure. Using her charms to create a vast network of devotees, who go forth to collect knowledge and funnel it back to you instantly via prayer isn't too tough.

Four, things like Swilly's "Factual Determination Analysis" and "Analytical Modeling Intuition" can help with more direct processes of obtaining information. (I also imagine her Counter Conceptual Interposition and Principle Invoking Onslaught would be amusing choices in the hands of a "know-it-all" sort of character.)

Five, if you get any time to read (such as from one of the aforementioned libraries of Orbalis), Adorjan's "Impatient Tempest Labor" will let you memorize a whole bunch of stuff super fast.

Unfortunately, for the moment, the Yozi don't have much in the way of canon "I'm just really smart" Charms. And that may be an intentional commentary on their nature.

[The_Snark]

To what Xefas said, I will add that First Circle demons make good spies. Having an immaterial demon following your allies and enemies around, eavesdropping on their conversations and filling you in in your spare time, is a good way to fake casual omniscience. Even a blood ape can do that much (in theory; they haven't really got the temperament for long-term surveillance). If you summon demons that are actually good at spying you open up a number of other options; I recommend decanthropes (bodysnatchers!), gethin (slightly different flavor of bodysnatcher!), or noresores (steal memories). You can probably find Second and Third Circle demons who have handy skills here too, or even spy networks of their own that they'll let you draw upon.

[HerrTenko]

Unfortunately, for the moment, the Yozi don't have much in the way of canon "I'm just really smart" Charms. And that may be an intentional commentary on their nature.

Surely you wouldn't mean this seriously, would you?


Thank you, both of you, for your advice is greatly apperciated on this matter.

[Madwand]

Unfortunately, for the moment, the Yozi don't have much in the way of canon "I'm just really smart" Charms. And that may be an intentional commentary on their nature.

Lie! Autochton has crysta-soul-super-computer attached to him, just to become as smart as five year old kid!

[Arrghus]

Does anyone really have "I'm really smart" Charms? The only ones I can recall were PlagueOfHats' (I think, though I have misattributed these kinds of things before) fanwork somewhere, and that was a specific reaction to the lack of such.

[meschlum]

So here I am with a question for you pals. Any advice on creating an "all-knowing" infernal? The lil' know-it-all annoying genius that uses his knowledge to advance his patron Yozi's agenda. Charms related to this is what I'm looking for.

Wait. What am I doing answering this post? Well, when a mommy Infernal goes out into the Wyld and catches a mommy Raksha, and they shape each other very much...

Ahem. Maybe I'll tell you more when you're younger.

Watcher in the Glass

Some few Fair Folk understand that to conquer Creation, it will not be sufficient to bring forth uncountable hordes. Instead, they need knowledge, to understand the terrain and foes that they might face. Thus were might beasts bound into mirrors, that they might perceive all that was hidden in Creation's recalcitrant lands, and report.

A Watcher manifests as a moderate looking glass, and when active its senses cover the entire land to which it is attuned. Within this realm, it is terrifyingly well informed of what can be seen, though certain advanced magics might deceive it at times.

4-dot Behemoth
Assumption of the Land's Heart - the Watcher can spy on an entire country.
Assumption of Earth Form - the Watcher manifests as a mirror which can fight and answer questions, and is by definition unaffected by darkness.
Mind's Grip Rigor - the Watcher is permanently under the effects of Keen Sight Technique, everywhere it can reach.
Pounding Dream Harmony - the Watcher perceives essence rather than flesh, and can bypass most disguises, even those enhanced by magic.
Shiftless Untamed Beauty - using the Watcher to ask it foolish questions in verse is strangely fulfilling.

As a 3-dot Behemoth, drop Shiftless Untamed Beauty, reduce Land's Heart to City's Heart, pick up Surpassing Excellence in spying, or some such.


Captive in the Glass

At times, it is more convenient for the Fair Folk to draw upon the knowledge of mortals than to exert themselves to the point of summoning a Watcher. Thus, the set of oaths and bindings involved in the creation of a Captive were wrought. By setting these constraints and conditions upon the Creation-born, lowly beings can be elevated to the high rank of tool for the scrying of the Raksha.

Like the Watcher, a Captive is unspeakably aware of all that takes place in the land. Unlike their superior versions, this perception is not channeled through the alien knowledge of the Fair Folk and thus, presumably, quite unpleasant. On the other hand, all Captives have a chance at freedom, if they simply answer enough questions, are asked the proper one, or some such. The mechanism ensuring their release is never the same, though...

4-dot Adjuration with Assumption of the Land's Heart: "Knowing all the land, I will truly answer all the rhymed questions of who holds me".
3-dot Adjuration with Pounding Dream Harmony: "So long as I remain in glass, I shall see the true nature of all I behold".
2-dot Adjuration with Assumption of Earth Form and Mind's Grip Rigor: "I remain a mirror until I answer a thousand and one questions in a year and a day".

Anthing that swears to all three Adjurations above will be transformed into a mirror, retaining enough traits from their previous incarnation to be very unsettling, and become capable and bound to answer all questions set before it.

1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Earth Form - the means by which the Raksha create new Captives is a mirror itself, though one that is not aware.
Behemoth Forging Meditation - as a first step towards creating a captive, the Mirror will awaken the essence flows of any mortal seeing their reflection within it.
Subversion and Transformation Artifice - even the essence of animals can be awakened by this mirror. If it is used by a skilled Entertainer, such beasts also gain sufficient sentience to be of use when questioned.
Unwanted Obsession Provocation Technique - it is extremely difficult to resist the temptation to look in the mirror. Clever self-deception might work, but sheer willpower is nearly useless.

Once you have a being with awakened essence on hand (and busy admiring themselves in the mirror), give them a Grace and have them swear to the Captive Adjurations. Voila! A new scrying glass.


Convenient Scroll

Once a document on which the terms for an essential peace treaty between two warring nations was written, the Scroll is fluid in nature and has a tendency to rewrite its contents. Alsways for the immediate benefot of its owner, of course, though others may not see it that way.

Those who bear the Scroll's burden can, simply by looking at it, cause any surface to cover itself with writing describing hitherto unknown details and exotica on any topic. Such knowledge is for their benefit only, and melts away rapidly once conveyed.

2-dot Adjuration
Imposition of Law - knowing obscure lore. Unless a piece of information is specifically concealed by stunt or Charm, the Scroll can convey it.

Note that this is potentially broken, but having multiple Scrolls to cover useful specialties can still be worthwhile. If you happen to have a pet Courtier on hand, Soul Carving Artifice can be employed to 're-make' the Scroll, so at the price of a mortal soul or two it will teach about a new topic instead. This last is fairly suited to the Infernal school of thought, in all. "Sacrifice a mortal, gain the knowledge you seek."


Wyld Hunter's Blessing

Upon discovering that the purpose of the Wyld Hunt was not to seek out the Raksha and engage them in passionate combat, the Fair Folk were somewhat annoyed. Accordingly, they sent forth a few of their number to infiltrate this organization and direct it towards more entertaining ends.

Whether they succeeded or not, the Wyld Hunt has been behaving more erratically of late... but those who have its Blessing find it much easier to manipulate.

1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Fire Form - the Blessing manifests as a ruby earring.
Adored by All the World - as a proper member of the Wyld Hunt, one who has the Blessing can always find allies and followers ready to serve him.
The Naming of Secrets - being familiar with all the proper code words and signals, the bearer of the Blessing can recognize and call upon any contacts of the Wyld Hunt. Even if they didn't know they were such beforehand.
Fire Transformation - when meeting the Dragon-blooded, the Blessing reveals the superior authority of its owner by transforming them into a greater Fire Elemental, ensuring that negotiations occur between equals.
Gladdening Visage - the Blessing is only conveyed to normal Creation-born, and don't believe anyone claiming that they're infected by Wyld (or Infernal) auras.
Limitless Wealth Conjuration Technique - where the Wyld Hunt lacks contacts and allies, they must be purchased. Fortunately, the Blessing includes a more or less infinite budget.
Mad God Mien - since those who have the Blessing are liable to encounter Sorcery, it is worth noting that the Blessing, being a natural and true part of its owner, is immune to counter-magic.

Not a way of directly knowing things, but still useful to collect information and have people working for you when they were not before.

[Xefas]

Surely you wouldn't mean this seriously, would you?

To clarify, I'm not saying the Yozi aren't intelligent, by certain definitions. They certainly contain vast stores of knowledge and have the capacity for using this knowledge to great effect. But, this knowledge seems to be a byproduct of their eon-spanning life, combined with their nature of being a civilization worth of people. (Yes, I know that First Circle Demons aren't part of the Yozi. But their relationship still makes the metaphor work, I think.) They've had countless years of servitors funneling information to them, which is why they know so much, rather than any inherent studiousness, superhuman brain-divination (ala Death Note), or what-have-you, on their part. Their capacity to recall and use this knowledge is represented by a single Charm. [Primordial] Glory Incarnate. They get a big dice pool when they use knowledge that resonates with their nature. That's why they're smart - in that particular area.

So, their lack of smartness Charms might be commentary on their existence as organizations and concepts. They aren't "smart" in the way a human might be smart.

[Draken]

Does anyone really have "I'm really smart" Charms? The only ones I can recall were PlagueOfHats' (I think, though I have misattributed these kinds of things before) fanwork somewhere, and that was a specific reaction to the lack of such.

Yes, the charm you are recalling is in Plague of Hat's blog. It's a charm of She Who Lives in Her Name that allows you to keep rolling knowledge checks until you remember/learn what it is you want. The more you fail to know it, the more you go crazy in anger, however (limit gain!).

Here it is, Clockwork Comprehension Insistence, bang your head against the wall until you know better.

[Lix Lorn]

(I also imagine her Counter Conceptual Interposition and Principle Invoking Onslaught would be amusing choices in the hands of a "know-it-all" sort of character.)

I am struck by the idea of using PIO to kill someone and transmute them into a book containing their life story and knowledge.

[Xefas]

I am struck by the idea of using PIO to kill someone and transmute them into a book containing their life story and knowledge.

I'm not sure if you could do that, but it's a particularly awesome idea, nonetheless.