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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default How do you capture a wizard?

    I have seen plenty of threads that have to do with keeping a Wizard (or other generic T1 caster) in prison. However, I don't recall any threads about actually getting them there.

    Is there a way to capture and disable a party consisting of 2-3 T1/2 casters, plus a a few T3 ToB and casters without using overwhelming force or other T1 casters*?

    We are starting at level 10, so I would like to plan this encounter for characters of level 10-12 (with an encounter level of up to CR 4-ish above them).

    I would like to achieve this with a group of Mystic Rangers, using the Dragon326 combat style that grants Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, and Trample as bonus feats. I'm thinking something that exploits the fact that the mount can allow mobility while the rider has the freedom to take non-charge full round actions.

    Ideally, I would like to do it without SotAO, but I understand that the feat is a huge power boost, so I'm not 100% opposed to it.



    *I don't know the exact party composition yet, but there will be 5 total. There will most likely be a Druid, Artificer or Crafter Wizard, Wu-Jen, Warblade/Swordsage, and Bard or Beguiler.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    A SotAO mystic ranger pretty much is a T1 caster for the first 10 levels, so if you're opposed to using T1 casters for this...
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Sure. Of course, a well-prepared, paranoid wizard is unlikely to be captured, but nonetheless, you can't be alert all the time, especially if you're only level 10+.

    Of course, this also depends on your game concept. If you're playing in a typical fantasy setting (Faerun, Greyhawk, Golarion), a powerful mid-level wizard might be a respected member of the community, and munchkin assassin troops might not be commonplace. If you have optimizer players, you're world will look different, with more paranoia.

    Anyway, people do sleep, even wizards. Rope Tricks can be found and dispelled, etc.

    If you confront the wizard directly, you need a way to stop him from teleporting (Dimensional Anchor, Dimensional Lock), and ideally use Silence on an item carried by a melee character who is keeping close to the wizard, potentially in a grapple.

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    The problem with T1/2 is that they have options. Whatever you choose to go after them with, there will potentially be defences against.

    ...that said, if this is a real scenario, they can't actually go all Shrodinger's Wizard on you, so what matters is what they're actually using. Are they LPA-ing Nightmares for Astral Projection? Does the wizard have Celerity? Does the Druid have Greenbound Summoning? Is the Artificer layering up the metamagics to wreak havok with wands?

    Defeating them is going to necessarily involve more information. Without that, anything you try could be foilable.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Let us look to the Movies and Television. Often, the hero is a very powerful person that if the BBEG took on in a direct fight, he would loose. (Unless the Hero was weak or plucky, and then it the power of the plot which does the heavy lifting)

    Regardless, somehow, the hero manages to get captured...a lot...while often managing to break free of prison later, there is something that almost universally employed to get a hero to surrender and come quietly without resisting.

    Hostages. Innocent villagers. Children, puppies. You name it, the hero usually comes willingly to be put in prison only to break out and rescue the hostages later.

    It's a time honored trope and ones I don't think DM's use enough of. If your players are running actual hero's, use it against them. Have the Big Bads torture, main and capture innocents and the hero's will come running.

    Have them show via divination spells just how powerless their victims are and if the PC's don't disarm and come quietly, we'll just kill one per minute.

    Works great on hero's and Paladins.

    Not so effective on Neutrals unless it has something personal to do with them. "come will us, druid, or we burn down your grove!"

    Totally ineffective against evil's as they may want to watch or help out.


    Why overpower PC's when you can have them give up willingly?

    :)

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    To quote a cartoon in the AD&D books: "One false move, wizard, and your familiar gets it!"
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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    That said, trolling is entirely counterproductive (yes, even when it's hilarious).

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkSaint View Post
    Let us look to the Movies and Television. Often, the hero is a very powerful person that if the BBEG took on in a direct fight, he would loose. (Unless the Hero was weak or plucky, and then it the power of the plot which does the heavy lifting)

    Regardless, somehow, the hero manages to get captured...a lot...while often managing to break free of prison later, there is something that almost universally employed to get a hero to surrender and come quietly without resisting.

    Hostages. Innocent villagers. Children, puppies. You name it, the hero usually comes willingly to be put in prison only to break out and rescue the hostages later.

    It's a time honored trope and ones I don't think DM's use enough of. If your players are running actual hero's, use it against them. Have the Big Bads torture, main and capture innocents and the hero's will come running.

    Have them show via divination spells just how powerless their victims are and if the PC's don't disarm and come quietly, we'll just kill one per minute.

    Works great on hero's and Paladins.

    Not so effective on Neutrals unless it has something personal to do with them. "come will us, druid, or we burn down your grove!"

    Totally ineffective against evil's as they may want to watch or help out.


    Why overpower PC's when you can have them give up willingly?

    :)
    I once had a BBEG force a direct confrontation with one of the PCs by having them threaten (and intend to carry through on) killing every person the PC ever met, from their friends and family to the employees of the businesses they patronize, to the people they simply say hello to on the street.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    A SotAO mystic ranger pretty much is a T1 caster for the first 10 levels, so if you're opposed to using T1 casters for this...
    Right, which is why I would prefer to avoid it. It isn't quite as good as a T1, because it is fairly MAD and doesn't get as many spells/day, but you are otherwise correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachei View Post
    Sure. Of course, a well-prepared, paranoid wizard is unlikely to be captured, but nonetheless, you can't be alert all the time, especially if you're only level 10+.

    Of course, this also depends on your game concept. If you're playing in a typical fantasy setting (Faerun, Greyhawk, Golarion), a powerful mid-level wizard might be a respected member of the community, and munchkin assassin troops might not be commonplace. If you have optimizer players, you're world will look different, with more paranoia.

    Anyway, people do sleep, even wizards. Rope Tricks can be found and dispelled, etc.

    If you confront the wizard directly, you need a way to stop him from teleporting (Dimensional Anchor, Dimensional Lock), and ideally use Silence on an item carried by a melee character who is keeping close to the wizard, potentially in a grapple.
    The setting is technically homebrew, but it is essentially Greyhawk with a smattering of Eberron, although the magitech influence is not commonplace.

    Maybe casting Silence on a net that the rangers drop on him while riding by. However, IIRC, silence only gives a 50% spell failure chance. Is there a dimensional anchor item that can be used to immobilize (bolas, net, etc)?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    The problem with T1/2 is that they have options. Whatever you choose to go after them with, there will potentially be defences against.

    ...that said, if this is a real scenario, they can't actually go all Shrodinger's Wizard on you, so what matters is what they're actually using. Are they LPA-ing Nightmares for Astral Projection? Does the wizard have Celerity? Does the Druid have Greenbound Summoning? Is the Artificer layering up the metamagics to wreak havok with wands?

    Defeating them is going to necessarily involve more information. Without that, anything you try could be foilable.
    While I have no hard and fast rules about what is allowed, LPA abuse, greenbound summoning, and excessive metamagic are generally assumed to be disallowed. So far, the only spell I have had to ban in previous games is Wings of Flurry, simply because it trivializes encounters that consist of multiple weaker foes.

    I generally run high-powered games with (at least half of them) competent players and I tend to be permissive of many things. I think the best way to describe what is not allowed is anything that must be explained by: "technically, it's legal." I hope that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkSaint View Post
    Let us look to the Movies and Television. Often, the hero is a very powerful person that if the BBEG took on in a direct fight, he would loose. (Unless the Hero was weak or plucky, and then it the power of the plot which does the heavy lifting)

    Regardless, somehow, the hero manages to get captured...a lot...while often managing to break free of prison later, there is something that almost universally employed to get a hero to surrender and come quietly without resisting.

    Hostages. Innocent villagers. Children, puppies. You name it, the hero usually comes willingly to be put in prison only to break out and rescue the hostages later.

    It's a time honored trope and ones I don't think DM's use enough of. If your players are running actual hero's, use it against them. Have the Big Bads torture, main and capture innocents and the hero's will come running.

    Have them show via divination spells just how powerless their victims are and if the PC's don't disarm and come quietly, we'll just kill one per minute.

    Works great on hero's and Paladins.

    Not so effective on Neutrals unless it has something personal to do with them. "come will us, druid, or we burn down your grove!"

    Totally ineffective against evil's as they may want to watch or help out.


    Why overpower PC's when you can have them give up willingly?

    :)
    Well, the thing is, I don't want this to be an "oh, by the way, you're captured," thing. You could make a virtually undetectable assailant at this CR. Dark Halfling Wolf Totem Barbarian 1/Psion 5/Totemist 4 with 16 Dex can have a +49 to Hide and + 41 to Move Silently (+54/+46 with skill focus and stealthy feats), and don't forget the -10 for sleeping. It can also detect magic (alarm, etc) via soulmelds and dispel via psionics and slip antimagic shackles on anyone. This would be CR 10-11.

    I would like the encouter to occur while the players are aware of it, but it will happen later in the day after they have used some resources.

    The enemies that are supposed to be enforcers in a police-state nation. They are not technically evil, so hostages are not a relistic option.

    I know these are some odd and restrictive circumstances, but I want this capture to be fast-paced and give the players a real chance to fight back, rather than just relying on a few perception checks.
    Last edited by Corwin_of_Amber; 2012-04-14 at 09:52 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Randomguy's Avatar

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Step 1: Block dimensional transportation.
    The best solution is to find a way to get them into anchor mist (the hazard from dungeonscape), which will also stop them from getting stuff out of bags of holding. You probably won't be able to do this though, since you can't transport anchor mist, so the next best solution is metamagic rod of chaining + dimensional anchor.

    Step 2: Either be able to outrun them or stop them from escaping without teleportation.
    You've got mounts, so you can outrun them, but they have flight, so you either need flying mounts or a way to dispel flight. On the bright side, I don't think they're high enough level to get an uncatchable phantom steed yet.

    Step 3: Find a way to limit/weaken/stop their casting.
    Force concentration checks. Use tanglefoot bags. Attack during bad weather, attack after the group has had a few encounters to drain their slots already.

    Step 4: Temporarily incapacitate all enemies.
    This is the hard part. You need to either knock them all unconscious or have them paralyzed in some way. The problem is that to do this, you need to actually beat them in combat. You'll need to use lots of battlefield control and stop them from using theirs, so freedom of movement pre-cast would be ideal. Having a few people counterspell would help, too.

    Step 5: Prepare for transportation to prison:
    To stop them from escaping en route, you'll need teleportation magic, gags, antimagic shackles and a high use rope modifier.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    You can't cast spells with a verbal component while in silence. You can cast spells with the Silent Spell feat applied, though, of course.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    This sounds like an odd question, but what's the motivation behind them getting captured?

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    DarkSaint, that's actually a good point. Who's trying to capture the wizard will change how they try it.

    Do you want the party to actually get captured, or is this just the strategy that the enemy is going to try to use?

    Best way to keep a wizard from casting is to render him unconscious somehow. Flesh to stone->Break Enchantment when you want to let him go is probably the best way. But it doesn't let the player fight back; so maybe just put him in an antimagic field.

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachei View Post
    Anyway, people do sleep, even wizards. Rope Tricks can be found and dispelled, etc.
    Not Elves!

    I'm just going to state the obvious and say AMF.

    Can be transported, and pretty much blips out everything a wizard is good for in one swift go... unless they have a contingency, but that's just laws of wizardry and all.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toy Killer View Post
    Not Elves!

    I'm just going to state the obvious and say AMF.

    Can be transported, and pretty much blips out everything a wizard is good for in one swift go... unless they have a contingency, but that's just laws of wizardry and all.
    AMF is really not as obvious as you'd expect. To start with, it's a Personal-range spell, and a 6th-level spell at that...so to use it at all, you need a 11th-level Tier 1 caster. Once you've got that, casting AMF requires him to then render himself useless for the actual fight, and then physically walk up to the (lower-level) PC to keep him inside the 10ft. radius effect.

    It's an excellent defensive spell for, say, a Summoner wizard or a buffzard with allies. As an offensive anti-caster tool, it sucks horribly.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-04-14 at 12:56 PM.

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    I'd say the point of AMF is that you can UMD a scroll or staff.

    (for instance, as a Rogue 1 / Fighter-type X with Able Learner)

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    It's an excellent defensive spell for, say, a Summoner wizard or a buffzard with allies. As an offensive anti-caster tool, it sucks horribly.
    It is also perfect for enchanting a pair of manacles or prison door with.

    Also, once you've captured him, deprive him of all possessions, including spellbooks, holy symbols, material components, his tongue, and his hands. Check his skin for tattoos as well. Remove them, if he has any.

    I imagine there are ways to bypass these measures, but only with certain feats can certain casters make use of existing spells, assuming they can also bypass the anti-magic field. Spell-preparing casters (wizards, archivists, etc.) can also no longer get any new ones.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    This is not so hard. First though, you need to be in a game that does not allow the '15 minute day cheat' or the 'everything is in stasis until a fight happens cheat' or a 'knowledge roll/spell tells a player everything cheat' and other such cheats that allow a wizard to be over powerful.

    1.Wear the wizard down. This is simple enough. You simply force the wizard into combat more then they can handle in a day. No matter what level the wizard is, they only have so many spells. And so many magic item uses and charges and such. So all you need do is push the wizard past that limit. Attack the wizard ten times in one day. For example have the first attack at 5 am, then the next at 7 am, the next at 9am and the next at 11 am and so on. That way the wizard uses up lots of magic. For example, the above three attacks alone would have used up four of the wizards stoneskin spells. Small, but deadly attacks by several groups can wear down a wizard. Summoned monsters work great here. This works even better with a 'nova' type wizard that burns out everything in every combat.

    2.Trick the Wizard Going along with number one, you want the wizard to wear themselves down fast, and a great way to do that is to trick them into doing so. Illusions, polymorph and disguises can make a wizard think they are facing different or more powerful foes, and then use up and waste more and powerful magic. An easy example is dress a bunch of wild elves up as drow to get a wizard to use up all his spell resistance by passing stuff. You can also do things like disguise the red dragon as a white one, and let the wizard waste his uber fireballs on it. And again this works great on nova type wizards.

    3.Protective Items Simple enough, when you go to fight the wizard protect your troops. There are tons of mundane and magical protections. Anything that can keep even a mook aline for one more round is more then worth it. Protection from energy can keep a foe alive a couple more rounds. And at the high end, you can fill in holes in a creatures defense. Giving a white dragon a ring of fire resistance, for example. This works great vs 'target weakness' type wizards that go crazy over finding a targets weakness and then taking advantage of it.

    4.Surprise Attack Don't walk onto a battle field and stand across from each other and wait for the 'fight' all Mortal Combat style. Attack the wizard when they are not ready, when they are asleep or eating or relaxing. You can even do the trick of waiting until the wizard is already in combat with someone else, then attack too.

    5.Take out the Wizards support Steal or destroy his spellbooks, destroy his home, kill his familiar or any other creatures or friends or allies. Steal or destroy all of his magic items. This can work out nicely with the wear down attacks as you can have dozens of creatures either steal or destroy the wizards items. Sunder and disarm can work great against a wizard and they often can't do much to resist the attack forms.

    6.Enclose the Wizard Wizards work best with open spaces. Lots of spells need room. So simply maneuvering the wizard into a building or a dungeon cuts down on the wizards possible actions. The wizard can't cast a fireball in a 10x10 room without hitting themselves. The 'murder maze' also works good here, where you have foes behind walls or such that can attack the wizard. Also here you can grapple the wizard and tons of creatures can do that. Also plenty of terrain can hinder the wizard. And even tons of mundane attacks like webs or glue or ropes can stop a wizard.

    7.Use the Law If the wizard interacts with any civilization, you might be able to use the law against them. Simply have or arrange for the local paladin to arrest the wizard. The crime could be real or fake, it does not matter. Most lawful wizards will allow themselves to be arrested as they 'believe in the system' and even an evil wizard might play along for social or political gains. Then once the wizard is in a cell, with no magic items or such, they are a much easier target for you.

    8.The round-a-bout attack Use poison or anything else harmful to weaken the wizard before you attack. If the wizard is mortal, they will need to eat and drink, and it's not that hard to poison that. You can even do a whole scan just to get the wizard to a dinner just to poison them. And even if the wizard does detect poison on everything, you can do the simple mundane trick of poisoning everything. And the wizard might think it's a false positive. And you have the social trick: say the wizard is at the barons dinner and discovers his food is poisoned. The baron thinks that is crazy as the food was made by his best chief, so the wizard is thought of as crazy, and might have to eat the poison to keep the baron happy.

    9.Target the Mortality And often forgotten about type of attack. Mortal wizards need things such as clean air to breathe, so attack that. For example, putting the wizard in a room full of smoke or sleep gas. The wizard may have lots of defenses vs attacks, but not much to let them breathe. You can do the same thing with filling a room full of water, or even just darkness(even just normal darkness). A wizard tricked into a underground poll of water in the dark can be in real trouble.

    10.The Magic Attack Anti-magic is the obvious thing. As are mind effecting spells like feebelmind.


    Now the thing is that a wizard could prepare an escape from any of the above. But your plan has two parts. 1) The wizard is 'not ready', so they are not walking around with a full set of 'adventuring gear and spells' and 2)The wizard can only escape so many times a day. You can set up five traps for a wizard before noon. Each time the wizard just laughs and teleports away. But then you keep after him....and by 5pm or so....the wizard will run out of teleport spells.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    This is not so hard. First though, you need to be in a game that does not allow the '15 minute day cheat' or the 'everything is in stasis until a fight happens cheat' or a 'knowledge roll/spell tells a player everything cheat' and other such cheats that allow a wizard to be over powerful.

    1.Wear the wizard down. This is simple enough. You simply force the wizard into combat more then they can handle in a day. No matter what level the wizard is, they only have so many spells. And so many magic item uses and charges and such. So all you need do is push the wizard past that limit. Attack the wizard ten times in one day. For example have the first attack at 5 am, then the next at 7 am, the next at 9am and the next at 11 am and so on. That way the wizard uses up lots of magic. For example, the above three attacks alone would have used up four of the wizards stoneskin spells. Small, but deadly attacks by several groups can wear down a wizard. Summoned monsters work great here. This works even better with a 'nova' type wizard that burns out everything in every combat.

    2.Trick the Wizard Going along with number one, you want the wizard to wear themselves down fast, and a great way to do that is to trick them into doing so. Illusions, polymorph and disguises can make a wizard think they are facing different or more powerful foes, and then use up and waste more and powerful magic. An easy example is dress a bunch of wild elves up as drow to get a wizard to use up all his spell resistance by passing stuff. You can also do things like disguise the red dragon as a white one, and let the wizard waste his uber fireballs on it. And again this works great on nova type wizards.

    3.Protective Items Simple enough, when you go to fight the wizard protect your troops. There are tons of mundane and magical protections. Anything that can keep even a mook aline for one more round is more then worth it. Protection from energy can keep a foe alive a couple more rounds. And at the high end, you can fill in holes in a creatures defense. Giving a white dragon a ring of fire resistance, for example. This works great vs 'target weakness' type wizards that go crazy over finding a targets weakness and then taking advantage of it.

    4.Surprise Attack Don't walk onto a battle field and stand across from each other and wait for the 'fight' all Mortal Combat style. Attack the wizard when they are not ready, when they are asleep or eating or relaxing. You can even do the trick of waiting until the wizard is already in combat with someone else, then attack too.

    5.Take out the Wizards support Steal or destroy his spellbooks, destroy his home, kill his familiar or any other creatures or friends or allies. Steal or destroy all of his magic items. This can work out nicely with the wear down attacks as you can have dozens of creatures either steal or destroy the wizards items. Sunder and disarm can work great against a wizard and they often can't do much to resist the attack forms.

    6.Enclose the Wizard Wizards work best with open spaces. Lots of spells need room. So simply maneuvering the wizard into a building or a dungeon cuts down on the wizards possible actions. The wizard can't cast a fireball in a 10x10 room without hitting themselves. The 'murder maze' also works good here, where you have foes behind walls or such that can attack the wizard. Also here you can grapple the wizard and tons of creatures can do that. Also plenty of terrain can hinder the wizard. And even tons of mundane attacks like webs or glue or ropes can stop a wizard.

    7.Use the Law If the wizard interacts with any civilization, you might be able to use the law against them. Simply have or arrange for the local paladin to arrest the wizard. The crime could be real or fake, it does not matter. Most lawful wizards will allow themselves to be arrested as they 'believe in the system' and even an evil wizard might play along for social or political gains. Then once the wizard is in a cell, with no magic items or such, they are a much easier target for you.

    8.The round-a-bout attack Use poison or anything else harmful to weaken the wizard before you attack. If the wizard is mortal, they will need to eat and drink, and it's not that hard to poison that. You can even do a whole scan just to get the wizard to a dinner just to poison them. And even if the wizard does detect poison on everything, you can do the simple mundane trick of poisoning everything. And the wizard might think it's a false positive. And you have the social trick: say the wizard is at the barons dinner and discovers his food is poisoned. The baron thinks that is crazy as the food was made by his best chief, so the wizard is thought of as crazy, and might have to eat the poison to keep the baron happy.

    9.Target the Mortality And often forgotten about type of attack. Mortal wizards need things such as clean air to breathe, so attack that. For example, putting the wizard in a room full of smoke or sleep gas. The wizard may have lots of defenses vs attacks, but not much to let them breathe. You can do the same thing with filling a room full of water, or even just darkness(even just normal darkness). A wizard tricked into a underground poll of water in the dark can be in real trouble.

    10.The Magic Attack Anti-magic is the obvious thing. As are mind effecting spells like feebelmind.


    Now the thing is that a wizard could prepare an escape from any of the above. But your plan has two parts. 1) The wizard is 'not ready', so they are not walking around with a full set of 'adventuring gear and spells' and 2)The wizard can only escape so many times a day. You can set up five traps for a wizard before noon. Each time the wizard just laughs and teleports away. But then you keep after him....and by 5pm or so....the wizard will run out of teleport spells.
    A smart wizard will just teleport to a safe plane if they are running out of spells. 2, 3, and 10 can be good tactics but the rest, (while good ideas and good tricks against a number of players,) can also be subverted by divinations.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    A smart wizard will just teleport to a safe plane if they are running out of spells. 2, 3, and 10 can be good tactics but the rest, (while good ideas and good tricks against a number of players,) can also be subverted by divinations.

    If teleport is common in your game, then thinks like teleport blocking spells ans spells like teleport tracer should also be available.

    But even if the wizard can teleport and the rest of the world is DMG level 'helpless', you can still do things. For example, endanger the wizards friends and family. Sure the wizard can get away, but many won't if you have a dagger to the throat of a loved one(It's even better if you say ''if you teleport, they die! I will not make the evil overloard mistake of keeping them alive so you can come save them''). You can do the same with property. The wizard can flee, but then loses his home and everything in it.

    And you can have fun with thing like the wizard does not want to miss the mage ball at 8pm....so even if he is out of spells they will go as they don't want to miss it.

    Divinations are not all powerful. An easy trick is to simply overload them. Set up fifty dangerous things a day for the wizard. So if they cast a divination they will find 'danger everywhere'. And they can't believe in and plan for all the danger.

    Another trick is the double(or more) trap. You have one trap that you want the wizard to find...say the assassin waiting on street A, so the wizard goes down street B...and guess what, yup and assassin is there too.

    You can also fool some divinations with disguises. For example, dressing the wild elves up as drow...when scryed upon the wizard will see a room full of drow.

    And, most importantly, as your not 'waiting for the official fight scene' you can attack the wizard any time 24/7. And no wizard can cast divination spells every single round to warn them of the future.

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Silence will keep the wizard from casting teleport in many cases, which is why paranoid wizards prepare teleport with silent spell applied or craft items. Still, as pointed out above, dimensional anchor and dimensional lock will help. And if you've UMD'd the AMF, the wizard is in trouble.

    That said, of course, a wizard has many options and a paranoid wizard will try to prepare for these and similar situations, but you can't prepare for all eventualities.

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    This is not so hard. First though, you need to be in a game that does not allow the '15 minute day cheat' or the 'everything is in stasis until a fight happens cheat' or a 'knowledge roll/spell tells a player everything cheat' and other such cheats that allow a wizard to be over powerful.
    Yes, unfortunately the rules are specialized for casters... So we have to completely boot all of the rules just to make it fair for everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    1.Wear the wizard down. This is simple enough. You simply force the wizard into combat more then they can handle in a day. No matter what level the wizard is, they only have so many spells. And so many magic item uses and charges and such. So all you need do is push the wizard past that limit. Attack the wizard ten times in one day. For example have the first attack at 5 am, then the next at 7 am, the next at 9am and the next at 11 am and so on. That way the wizard uses up lots of magic. For example, the above three attacks alone would have used up four of the wizards stoneskin spells. Small, but deadly attacks by several groups can wear down a wizard. Summoned monsters work great here. This works even better with a 'nova' type wizard that burns out everything in every combat.
    Ah you mean this is the greatest tactic that only works on the Idiot Wizard Any Wizard worth his mantle would prepare ATLEAST one spell that can get them out of a tight jam (Personally? I like to use Dimension Door if were going for lowest core teleport spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    2.Trick the Wizard Going along with number one, you want the wizard to wear themselves down fast, and a great way to do that is to trick them into doing so. Illusions, polymorph and disguises can make a wizard think they are facing different or more powerful foes, and then use up and waste more and powerful magic. An easy example is dress a bunch of wild elves up as drow to get a wizard to use up all his spell resistance by passing stuff. You can also do things like disguise the red dragon as a white one, and let the wizard waste his uber fireballs on it. And again this works great on nova type wizards.
    Again with this "Nova" type Wizard...
    Yeah illusions totally take out Wizards... I mean they have the lowest Will saves right? Cmon dude, this is Giants in The Playground Forum! Expect that the Wizard is the god damn batman!

    "Expect the worst, hope for the best"

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    3.Protective Items Simple enough, when you go to fight the wizard protect your troops. There are tons of mundane and magical protections. Anything that can keep even a mook aline for one more round is more then worth it. Protection from energy can keep a foe alive a couple more rounds. And at the high end, you can fill in holes in a creatures defense. Giving a white dragon a ring of fire resistance, for example. This works great vs 'target weakness' type wizards that go crazy over finding a targets weakness and then taking advantage of it.
    Lets upgrade the ring to a ring of Fire Immunity...

    This seems to me like a Magic Vs Magic fight and not a Mundane vs Magic fight... I like it (Yes... give into your hate... release your natural talent... deep inside your veins runs the blood of a dragon... release your hatred young soldier...)

    If your going to just try and throw wave after wave of your own men (The brilliant Zapp Brannigan tactic) then don't do it against someone who can do it as well... except better

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    4.Surprise Attack Don't walk onto a battle field and stand across from each other and wait for the 'fight' all Mortal Combat style. Attack the wizard when they are not ready, when they are asleep or eating or relaxing. You can even do the trick of waiting until the wizard is already in combat with someone else, then attack too.
    I prefer using the Roaming Legend maneuver (Contingent Teleport) It really does stop those would be assassins from trying to kill you

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    5.Take out the Wizards support Steal or destroy his spellbooks, destroy his home, kill his familiar or any other creatures or friends or allies. Steal or destroy all of his magic items. This can work out nicely with the wear down attacks as you can have dozens of creatures either steal or destroy the wizards items. Sunder and disarm can work great against a wizard and they often can't do much to resist the attack forms.
    No offense, but all of that sounds like a suicide mission (or multiple suicide missions... depending on how you want to do it)

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    6.Enclose the Wizard Wizards work best with open spaces. Lots of spells need room. So simply maneuvering the wizard into a building or a dungeon cuts down on the wizards possible actions. The wizard can't cast a fireball in a 10x10 room without hitting themselves. The 'murder maze' also works good here, where you have foes behind walls or such that can attack the wizard. Also here you can grapple the wizard and tons of creatures can do that. Also plenty of terrain can hinder the wizard. And even tons of mundane attacks like webs or glue or ropes can stop a wizard.
    Why would I fireball when I can Chain Lightning?

    Still spell makes ALL of that stuff worthless... (Baleful Transposition has no Somantic components so its good to go right away)

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    7.Use the Law If the wizard interacts with any civilization, you might be able to use the law against them. Simply have or arrange for the local paladin to arrest the wizard. The crime could be real or fake, it does not matter. Most lawful wizards will allow themselves to be arrested as they 'believe in the system' and even an evil wizard might play along for social or political gains. Then once the wizard is in a cell, with no magic items or such, they are a much easier target for you.
    Your assuming your not in [insert magic based empire] where if you can cast Magic professionally then your pretty well off... and please, PLEASE don't even try and arrest a Lawful stupid Wizard...

    On a side note: how do you recommend removing the Wizards already prepared spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    8.The round-a-bout attack Use poison or anything else harmful to weaken the wizard before you attack. If the wizard is mortal, they will need to eat and drink, and it's not that hard to poison that. You can even do a whole scan just to get the wizard to a dinner just to poison them. And even if the wizard does detect poison on everything, you can do the simple mundane trick of poisoning everything. And the wizard might think it's a false positive. And you have the social trick: say the wizard is at the barons dinner and discovers his food is poisoned. The baron thinks that is crazy as the food was made by his best chief, so the wizard is thought of as crazy, and might have to eat the poison to keep the baron happy.
    and then the Wizard opens up his coat and pulls out his Shaker of Purify Food and Drink and sprinkles it over his food before dining in Besides what is keeping the Wizard from saying "No thank you, your majesty, I've already eaten well today however I welcome you to consume this wonderful meal" and boom the Baron just poisoned himself... What are they going to do? hold the wizard down trying to feed him a sandwich?

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    9.Target the Mortality And often forgotten about type of attack. Mortal wizards need things such as clean air to breathe, so attack that. For example, putting the wizard in a room full of smoke or sleep gas. The wizard may have lots of defenses vs attacks, but not much to let them breathe. You can do the same thing with filling a room full of water, or even just darkness(even just normal darkness). A wizard tricked into a underground poll of water in the dark can be in real trouble.
    Wheres that spell that makes it so the Wizard doesn't have to breath... I know it exist eh it'll come to me later...

    (Necklace of Adaptation works)

    I'm curious where it says "a Wizard cannot cast spells when surrounded by darkness or in a pool of water"

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    10.The Magic Attack Anti-magic is the obvious thing. As are mind effecting spells like feeblemind.
    and my immediate response is Mind Blank

    *Steps out of AMF* *Throws instantaneous Conjurations into the AMF*

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodtide View Post
    Now the thing is that a wizard could prepare an escape from any of the above. But your plan has two parts. 1) The wizard is 'not ready', so they are not walking around with a full set of 'adventuring gear and spells' and 2)The wizard can only escape so many times a day. You can set up five traps for a wizard before noon. Each time the wizard just laughs and teleports away. But then you keep after him....and by 5pm or so....the wizard will run out of teleport spells.
    Well your just assuming that you always know where the Wizard is going and that you just so happen to have the ability to be right where he is going to be.

    My god I haven't seen such antics since Willy Coyote tried and sling himself into at the Road Runner


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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    The easiest way to capture a Wizard is to give him a ton of books to decipher. Poor bastard will be stuck to the spot for months.
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    With a stick, while he slept.
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Some one who can sneak and grapple effectively while wearing an amulet of AMF, add some support personnel for everything that isn't the actual act of apprehending him, and you're solid. Rogue(able learner)1/barbarianX. My usual go to grappler (totemist) doesn't work in this case, so we have to do it the old fashioned way (though grappling a wizard inside an AMF shouldn't be remarkably difficult). Casting inside an AMF relies upon some very odd tricks, and all of the ones I am aware of can only work for instantaneous effects, which freedom of movement is not. Grappling+AMF is a nearly unbeatable combo, so long as your grappling skill isn't reliant on magic item/spells/spell likes/supernatural abilities. Also darkstalker is really needed for this to operate effectively.
    Last edited by Darth Stabber; 2012-04-14 at 04:29 PM.
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The easiest way to capture a Wizard is to give him a ton of books to decipher. Poor bastard will be stuck to the spot for months.
    ... This is the single most hilariously brilliant idea I've ever heard in my entire life...
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Hire a better Wizard.
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The easiest way to capture a Wizard is to give him a ton of books to decipher. Poor bastard will be stuck to the spot for months.
    This is surprisingly true. You don't need to fight a wizard when you have a large number of spells that he wants to read: you can buy the wizard by giving them the spells for free. You suddenly have a wizard on your team, as well.

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Level 10-12 really isn't that difficult. A Weirdstone to block teleporation and the like, a Greater Shadesteel Golem with Rudimentary Intelligence, Permanent Emanation (Temporal Repair) and Permanent Emanation (AMF) (have it cast the spells from scrolls with it's UMD) could easily capture a level 10-12 wizard.

    To imprison him, knock the wizard out (so that he can't make saves any longer), whack him with a Temporal Stasis spell, and drop him into a permanent Prismatic Sphere with a Permanent private sanctum inside of it that is in deep intergalactic space.

    Sure, he can still be Wished back to his buddies but there is nothing you can do to prevent that.
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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    AMF is really not as obvious as you'd expect. To start with, it's a Personal-range spell, and a 6th-level spell at that...so to use it at all, you need a 11th-level Tier 1 caster. Once you've got that, casting AMF requires him to then render himself useless for the actual fight, and then physically walk up to the (lower-level) PC to keep him inside the 10ft. radius effect.

    It's an excellent defensive spell for, say, a Summoner wizard or a buffzard with allies. As an offensive anti-caster tool, it sucks horribly.
    There's a way around this: Rings of Spell Storing.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: How do you capture a wizard?

    I tend to think these types of discussions are pretty awful in that there is never a model to use in place of the Wizard. Without a sample wizard character stated out, these discussions just become speculation as the pro-wizard side merely suggests that a wizard will have every spell, every contingency and every magic item within their grasp at all times.

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