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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    That stinks. I think you're approaching this correctly at the moment, though.
    Thanks. Most of the advice I got here ended up being irrelevant because of how things turned out, but I learned from it all the same. A few friends of mine with varying degrees of closeness to the situation helped me through it as well. I still care a lot about K, and I'd do pretty much anything I can to make her happy. Unfortunately the only thing I can do now is nothing, which is tough but I've got to accept it.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    I decided that the right thing for me to do was to step back, give her space, and let her know that I was there for her in whatever capacity she needed, most likely as a friend. I talked with her for a bit this morning and gave what support I could. I know that I still care a lot about her, but I have no idea if she will feel anything for me anymore by the time she gets over this once and for all and is ready to move on. I don't want to be a rebound fling but if she eventually wants a real relationship then I will be there. I won't wait forever, but there's nobody else in my life right now and I do care a lot about her so I'll wait for awhile at least.
    For reference did you decide this on your own or after speaking with her? From the earlier posts it implied you were at least in somewhat of a casual relationship with her rather than simply being friends. If you had spoken to her about it, then it makes sense. If you decided that you felt this was the "right" thing to do, you need to speak to her about it directly. Letting things be vague and dragging on will not be good for either of you.

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    not to mention what it may do to her own confidence and subsequent road to gettingovery..if she feels rejected from both sides (because that might happen if you haven't talked to her)
    Last edited by dehro; 2012-05-08 at 08:53 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I have now made the amazing discovery that you do not ask out a girl in front of a room of people. You just don't do it. :p

    This is something that would have occurred to me before, except I'm extremely comfortable in public settings and very nearly immune to embarrassment. I haven't been outright rejected - but it's not looking good. Advice on recovery?

    Also, when someone says "What?" when you ask them if they'd like to go paddle boating, you don't take say "It's like a cross between a boat an a bicycle."

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    For reference did you decide this on your own or after speaking with her? From the earlier posts it implied you were at least in somewhat of a casual relationship with her rather than simply being friends. If you had spoken to her about it, then it makes sense. If you decided that you felt this was the "right" thing to do, you need to speak to her about it directly. Letting things be vague and dragging on will not be good for either of you.
    I had come to the conclusion already, but I did speak to her about it. I let her know in no uncertain terms that I was definitely still interested in pursuing a relationship, but that I thought the right thing to do was back off and give her some space and time to deal with everything. We agreed that I would wait for her to call me, since I don't really know how far to back off.

    I figured I wouldn't hear from her for a few days, a week, maybe longer. She called me again that same day, and again the day after. We're definitely not back to actively seeing each other (yet), but she's chosen to keep up conversations with me. I hope that's a good thing; I know that I always love talking to her. It's so confusing, and I feel like I'm so close to what I want, but now I'm afraid of becoming just a good friend. I know nobody ever said this was easy, but I never expected it to be THIS hard.

  6. - Top - End - #276

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Caewil View Post
    I have now made the amazing discovery that you do not ask out a girl in front of a room of people. You just don't do it. :p

    This is something that would have occurred to me before, except I'm extremely comfortable in public settings and very nearly immune to embarrassment. I haven't been outright rejected - but it's not looking good. Advice on recovery?

    Also, when someone says "What?" when you ask them if they'd like to go paddle boating, you don't take say "It's like a cross between a boat an a bicycle."
    The first time I asked a girl out, a quiet hallway suddenly filled with people trying to find their room. (It was a newly constructed hall and people were still a little lost.) Needless to say, epic flub. Laugh and move on.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Herp, derp.

    So, apparently my OKC profile somehow changed to say that I was looking for short-term dating and casual sex. Which I'm not, and I don't know how it got set that way, but I just fixed it and now I'm banging my head against a wall wondering how long it was set that way and how many messages didn't get replies because of that fact alone.

    Just not my week.
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  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    I had come to the conclusion already, but I did speak to her about it. I let her know in no uncertain terms that I was definitely still interested in pursuing a relationship, but that I thought the right thing to do was back off and give her some space and time to deal with everything. We agreed that I would wait for her to call me, since I don't really know how far to back off.
    Well too late now I suppose, but I would have just left it at "still interested in pursuing a relationship". Adding that YOU thought the "right thing to do was back off" can imply several things.
    1) You're just a good guy who's concerned about her feelings and such. This one is a good thing.
    2)You're giving her an out to just being friends with you. Can be good though clearly not what you want in this case.
    3) You're making decisions that you deem best, based on what you think about her feelings. Now this can be good or bad. It shows you're considerate of her feelings. But it can also make it look like you know her feelings better than her and are making the decisions for her.

    This is the reason I asked if you had discussed it before making said decision to "back off". Clearly you don't want to back off (you still want to be in a relationship with her) but you're backing off because you feel that's what she wants. Without having her say that first it can be taken as presumptuous even though that clearly wasn't the intention.

    I figured I wouldn't hear from her for a few days, a week, maybe longer. She called me again that same day, and again the day after. We're definitely not back to actively seeing each other (yet), but she's chosen to keep up conversations with me. I hope that's a good thing; I know that I always love talking to her. It's so confusing, and I feel like I'm so close to what I want, but now I'm afraid of becoming just a good friend. I know nobody ever said this was easy, but I never expected it to be THIS hard.
    Provided you were absolutely clear in that you were still interested in a romantic relationship this probably isn't a problem. I suppose the other question is whether you would want her as a friend if she decides not to want a relationship. Clearly that's a delicate point to address but its something you need to consider.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Either yesterday or the day before, I came to the startling realization that for a long time, I was so busy pouring energy into being concerned about A's life and general well-being, that I almost completely forgot how to put energy into my OWN life, let alone remembering how that actually FELT.

    Even considering that I still suffer periodic episodes of heartbreak and pain, I have to say... this has actually been a good week. Today itself, was a good day.

    It's even more startling to hear myself saying those words. "I had a good day." Like I forgot how that even worked.

    So, as a word of advice to others who, like myself, didn't realize that: don't do it. Give your SO your all, of course. Give to them 100%. But never, ever forget how to live your life.
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  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Two years ago, I lost my job, which was working in an office. I kept trying to get back into the office, and I'd get called in for interviews and there'd be 7-10 people also there to interview. It came pretty clear that the clerical sector was hit pretty hard. Companies that needed to do layoffs mostly looked to their office people when figuring out where the fat could be trimmed, and so you had a lot of office people looking for jobs, and no companies opening those jobs back up. Still, I kept trying and kept getting close. To improve my chances, I started college.

    Fast forward to January of this year. With about a week left on my unemployment, our problems were over. I got a job working at the local jail as a clerk. It was a nice office job, mostly involving greeting people, processing paperwork, and going back and forth from the public area of the jail to the jail itself. I showed up to work early each day, clocked in and out on time, and gave free overtime if I was working on something that made me run over my shift. Then, in March, I got called in, handed a letter that said that I had failed to complete my probationary period, and since it was a probationary period, they don't have to provide me with a reason and I don't have the right to appeal.

    I went to the unemployment office again, and found out that it was not long enough of employment to start a new claim, but I could resume my prior claim. So with one week left, that was all we had. I went out and put in applications at places I'd never want to work, like every fast food place in town, grocery stores, gas stations. That kind of stuff. I am attending college, but am only one semester in so that's not going to do much for me.

    Now, the second issue:
    I came home from my evening class one Monday last month, and my 2 year old was taking a nap and my wife was taking a nap on the couch. My 5 year old was using my computer to watch a movie, so I sat down at my wife's to browse while I ate dinner. She had the MMO up that she plays, and I noticed an in-game IM she had up. Something bugged me about it, so I scrolled back through it and it was her and some other guy groping on each other and telling each other that they love the other.

    I confronted her about it, and in effect she said it was nothing because there's no way it would go anywhere and he's just trying to make her feel more like a woman and less like a mom. I thought that was a terrible reason.

    Next morning, I woke up to get our daughter ready for Pre-K, and I got to wondering just how deep this went, so I checked her Facebook messages. I found one from the same guy where the chat log had been cleared except for a heart smiley she sent him. I also found one between her and her mom discussing plans to leave me. Later that day, I asked her to tell me if she was planning to leave us, and she said no. I told her about my knowledge of her conversation, and she was upset that I violated her privacy. She went to the store with her mom, and I wrote her a letter out on her computer saying that we should try working out our problems, and that we'd been hiding our actual feelings and concerns from one another too much. That ended with her copying and pasting the contents in a Facebook message back to me with the postscript of "RETURN TO SENDER."

    I offered to spend the weekend at my dad's house to let things cool down and then we'd talk. I came back Monday to find her packed and ready to live with her mom. That's where she's been since, and that was 3 or so weeks ago. In the meantime, I've had the kids during the week and she has them on the weekends. She's changed her relationship status to "Separated" since then.

    One problem feeds another: If I do get a job, I know she's not going to, because she will be with the kids during that time. Since it would be inconvenient to truck them to her mom's house every day that I work and bring them back home, she will be living at our house, which means I wouldn't be. So, end result would be that I'd be paying a mortgage and utility bills for a house I don't live in, because my kids live there. Yes, she could put the kids in daycare and get one herself, I know. We've talked about it and she says its unfair that I would make her work when we agreed that she was the "housewife."

    The other outcome would be that I live in this house and the kids live with her and her mom, which is less likely as there is only the one spare bedroom. So that means that the first outcome is most likely, in which case I have to decide to accept it in hopes that we will work it out, or sever all relationship ties and tell her that if she's going to live in the house, she needs to pay for it.
    Zombitar courtesy of Djinn_In_Tonic.

  11. - Top - End - #281

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Zom B View Post
    We've talked about it and she says its unfair that I would make her work when we agreed that she was the "housewife."
    *****

    First thing you want to do is find what correspondences you can, copy them, and send yourself a copy. When this hits the divorce courts, you want as much evidence as possible on your side. It looks like that's her endgame. (And frankly, I've seen enough girls complain about being WoW widows that she deserves everything that happens if she leaves you for a guy she met in-game.)

    Second, the deal you two made that allowed her to be a housewife? She doesn't get to be pissed when she's the one who broke it. It's the same as her making you out as the bad guy for seeing this. She's keeping you on the defensive to keep the upper hand. Remember that she's the one who's leaving you to be with someone else. You don't owe her a thing. Don't hold out for her to come back. The only way that'll happen is if things with the other guy fall through and she sees you as the backup plan. Do you really want to be the backup plan?

    Workwise, I wish I knew a lawyer who wouldn't further dent your finances. You're going to need one for the upcoming divorce anyways. The "we will keep you on exactly as long as we can without obligating us to anything" sounds shady enough that it's worth bringing up, although I'm guessing it's the result of a legal loophole they've covered. There's a chance that they're just hoping that you don't know the full extent of your rights. I've heard of employers doing that before.

    Wish I knew what to say about the job hunt. Times are tough for everybody.

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Every time I think I've said everything there is to say here, somebody has another useful response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Well too late now I suppose, but I would have just left it at "still interested in pursuing a relationship". Adding that YOU thought the "right thing to do was back off" can imply several things.
    1) You're just a good guy who's concerned about her feelings and such. This one is a good thing.
    2)You're giving her an out to just being friends with you. Can be good though clearly not what you want in this case.
    3) You're making decisions that you deem best, based on what you think about her feelings. Now this can be good or bad. It shows you're considerate of her feelings. But it can also make it look like you know her feelings better than her and are making the decisions for her.
    Let me ask you this then: do you think maybe I should talk to her about it now? Because to be honest, I'm finding it increasingly hard not to. I want to do right by her, which seems like giving her space to grieve if necessary while remaining there for her is the right thing. But at the same time, I'm not certain what she feels and the not knowing is driving me to distraction. We texted some more today, though the subject of her ex or of us didn't come up. She called me briefly to tell me about a concert that we'd both like to see which she's supposed to get tickets to, and I mentioned another one that she's even more excited for. We also made plans to watch an anime together once I can check it out of the library (somebody has it out right now). But none of those things necessarily tells me if she's still interested in me romantically or not.

    I don't want to come off as pushy, especially since her emotional wounds from this re-breaking of her heart are probably pretty raw right now. But even though it's only been a few days, I'm having a hard time thinking about anything else, and I find myself analyzing every little thing she says, looking for signs whether she is or isn't interested in me anymore.

    Should I just go ahead and ask her whether she still feels anything for me? If she's busy dealing with the fallout from her ex then I don't want to intrude with my own difficulties right now, but this is weighing on my mind pretty much 24/7 and I'm mentally running in circles trying to come up with an answer.

    Provided you were absolutely clear in that you were still interested in a romantic relationship this probably isn't a problem. I suppose the other question is whether you would want her as a friend if she decides not to want a relationship. Clearly that's a delicate point to address but its something you need to consider.
    I told her directly, so I think it should be totally clear that I still want a romantic relationship. If things don't go that way... I recognize a lot of good reasons why she would be a great friend to have, but I think that might be too painful for me, at least right away.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Zom B View Post
    We've talked about it and she says its unfair that I would make her work when we agreed that she was the "housewife."
    I'm sorry to say that you married a freeloader.
    if she walks out on you she loses her housewife status.
    she does however get to join the fabulous adventure of hunting for jobs.
    There should be no question in your mind that if she keeps the house, she pays for it..whether you try to work things out or start looking for a way to cut your losses.
    honestly, she should have started looking for work the day you lost your job.
    Don't let her trample all over you, or the next thing you know, you'll loose access to your children over this.
    And yes..collect all evidence you can..back logs, testimonies and all.. ask around, be thorough.
    both of you not having a job right now might make this thing turn nasty real quickly, so cover your position the best you can.
    honestly, I don't see you having much of a chance with a woman who turned to the web to solve her problems rather than talking to you about them (unless she did and you didn't listen because you had a headful of worries about job)..
    I'm not good at expressing sympathy and such..but you have it, for what it's worth. whatever happens, think of the kids first..and pretend that she does so too...and that she does her share of sacrifice for them. if she doesn't..don't feel bad about using that against her. you need to paint the prettiest picture of yourself you can, if you want to keep a certain role in your kids' lives and not want to shoulder the financial burden entirely.
    if you decide that giving up the house is best for your kids..don't do it for free.. and don't count on her word to keep agreements between you. involve third parties as witnesses, if not directly the authorities. she has lied to you already on several accounts..and who knows for how long. you should not trust her to keep her word with regards of "divorce agreements/taking a break/working things out separately"..
    you don't even hint at her feeling bad about the way things are going or what she's doing to you and the family.. if this is because you didn't think of mentioning it, ok..if it's becase she doesn't feel it..then be warned because it means you can't expect any favours at all..she'll take what she wants.

    sorry for being harsh.. it seems to me you're better off with warnings and a bit of scare than with cuddles and comfort.
    Last edited by dehro; 2012-05-10 at 04:10 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Hey folks,

    Not really in a position to offer much relationship advice at the moment, given that I split up with my girlfriend last night. My mood is swinging all over the place, from feeling confident and hopeful about the future to kind of "meh" like I am right now. I hate feeling like this and I hope it's not going to knock me back into my depressive stuff again. I don't think it will but I haven't slept for 3 days straight and my brain isn't in it's normal easy-going mode at the moment.

    I guess this was going to arrive at some point and deep down I knew it. I'm not going to go into too much detail but suffice to say she wasn't ready to move to England, I wasn't ready to move to Denmark and while we both loved the time we spent together, it wasn't enough to build a long term relationship and family on.

    We're meeting again at the end of May and we're going to have one final week of good times together before we both go our separate ways. It's weird but although I feel really down in the dumps right now, I'm dealing with it a lot better than I thought I would.

    Maybe I've just learned to be a little more hopeful for the future than I was before I met her. I still love her and I think she still loves me but time has moved on and we both need to find out what we want from life.

    Sorry if this is a rambling wall of text - I'm not really looking for advice as such but I just want somewhere to put my thoughts down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas-Dakota View Post
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    Posting schedule likely to be erratic for the next few weeks - sorting out some personal stuff.

  15. - Top - End - #285

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    Sorry if this is a rambling wall of text - I'm not really looking for advice as such but I just want somewhere to put my thoughts down.
    I'll give some anyways.

    Since you're splitting on good terms, you can avoid much of the breakup angst. Still, someone who took up a fair amount of your time and was a large part of your life has pulled back. That leaves a lot of time and space for you to fill by yourself.

    Go out with friends. Be active. Allow yourself to find new things to fill your time, so you don't find yourself trying to follow old patterns that no longer work.

  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    And to add to the good points give by Reluctance, a slightly less serious one:

    Chocolate is good. It contains little chemicals to help lift your mood. It's no coincidence that all chickflicks result in girls sobbing over breaking up with a very large pot of chocolate icecream, or a large chocolate fudge cake.


    *massive hugs* Be well, Succubus. You'll get through this.
    "I'm just going on motive and opportunity here and the fact that if the earth got swallowed by a black hole, I'd look suspiciously in your direction first."
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  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    Let me ask you this then: do you think maybe I should talk to her about it now? Because to be honest, I'm finding it increasingly hard not to. I want to do right by her, which seems like giving her space to grieve if necessary while remaining there for her is the right thing. But at the same time, I'm not certain what she feels and the not knowing is driving me to distraction. We texted some more today, though the subject of her ex or of us didn't come up. She called me briefly to tell me about a concert that we'd both like to see which she's supposed to get tickets to, and I mentioned another one that she's even more excited for. We also made plans to watch an anime together once I can check it out of the library (somebody has it out right now). But none of those things necessarily tells me if she's still interested in me romantically or not.

    I don't want to come off as pushy, especially since her emotional wounds from this re-breaking of her heart are probably pretty raw right now. But even though it's only been a few days, I'm having a hard time thinking about anything else, and I find myself analyzing every little thing she says, looking for signs whether she is or isn't interested in me anymore.

    Should I just go ahead and ask her whether she still feels anything for me? If she's busy dealing with the fallout from her ex then I don't want to intrude with my own difficulties right now, but this is weighing on my mind pretty much 24/7 and I'm mentally running in circles trying to come up with an answer.
    The important question was whether or not you still would want to be her friend if she was NOT interested romantically. If you are willing its easy. Ask her straight up if she has any romantic interest. Tell her not to try and spare your feelings or anything but the absolute truth of the matter. From experience if you're not up front about it you can get the "I'm not really ready for a relationship right now" response which in a lot of cases means "No". It seems like its the easiest way to let someone down without making things awkward and the like at the moment. But in the end its bad because it leaves that false hope to the one that is being rejected. And that uncertainty is not fun.

    Now if you're not willing to be "just friends" its more difficult. There's the option of doing the exact same thing as above and then just weaning off the friendship if there's a rejection, though that's somewhat dishonest (though it might be kinder in the long run). Coming out and saying you don't want to "just be friends" is really not a good option even though it is honest. Either you'll piss the other person off or they'll feel the need to say there's a possibility of a relationship so they don't lose the friendship (it may not even be a lie or anything).

    Waiting for someone to "come around" rarely ends well. It'd be better to simply consider it a no and move on. If in the future things change, they change. If not, you won't be hung up over it.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    Hey folks,

    Not really in a position to offer much relationship advice at the moment, given that I split up with my girlfriend last night. My mood is swinging all over the place, from feeling confident and hopeful about the future to kind of "meh" like I am right now. I hate feeling like this and I hope it's not going to knock me back into my depressive stuff again. I don't think it will but I haven't slept for 3 days straight and my brain isn't in it's normal easy-going mode at the moment.

    I guess this was going to arrive at some point and deep down I knew it. I'm not going to go into too much detail but suffice to say she wasn't ready to move to England, I wasn't ready to move to Denmark and while we both loved the time we spent together, it wasn't enough to build a long term relationship and family on.

    We're meeting again at the end of May and we're going to have one final week of good times together before we both go our separate ways. It's weird but although I feel really down in the dumps right now, I'm dealing with it a lot better than I thought I would.

    Maybe I've just learned to be a little more hopeful for the future than I was before I met her. I still love her and I think she still loves me but time has moved on and we both need to find out what we want from life.

    Sorry if this is a rambling wall of text - I'm not really looking for advice as such but I just want somewhere to put my thoughts down.
    Oooh no, Succubus. I'm so sorry Look after yourself. Do lots of things that make you happy.

    Zom B: Whoa, heavy Don't have much real advice, but I'll echo the sentiments of hoarding all the information on what happened that you can, and that as soon as she ceases to be a wife, she no longer gets to be a housewife (and why on Earth would she insist on still being so when you're struggling to find work? What did she think would happen when your employment ran out?).

  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I think I summarized a bit too much to make the post shorter. I don't think she is going to this other guy. When I said "leaving me" I mean that her mother was endorsing a separation for us and that they were making plans already for her to go over there even before I discovered this relationship, whether it is online-only or not. So I take it she was unhappy before, and decided to turn to this guy for comfort instead of me. Why, I don't know.

    Her main complaint about me was that she would ask me to step up more and help around the house, and I told her it was hard to do a bunch of housework and watch her get off the computer long enough to start a load of dishes and then jump right back on it. I got frustrated about it after a few days and would start playing Minecraft while she was on her MMO. The times that she took a break to do a cleaning spree I would do the same.

    The MMO itself was a huge problem, although for the sake of keeping things pleasant, I didn't raise a lot of concern about it. The main problem was that she managed our bill planning and also was the person spending money on it. If you're wondering, it's one of those "free" to play ones where you can pay money for functions of the game that make things easier, or equipment, or new fighting units. So she would ask me if we could buy some new thing that they put out or take advantage of some sale, and we'd look over the bills. A conversation might go like this:

    Her: "The only bills we have due this week were power and internet, and they've already been paid. We've got $83 left over after the bills this week, and that's including gas money you need for the car."
    Me: "What about the bills for the rest of the month? Do we need to save that toward any of the other ones?"
    Her: "Nope. This week later in the month will be a little tight, but that's about it."
    Me: "All right, I suppose so. If this sale is only for this week."

    Then three days after that, our water's being cut off and I'm having to call up dad to borrow money for it, feeling all the while pretty upset that the bill was overlooked. I know, allowing this entire setup was stupid on my part. This is not even to mention that I would have to go to bed without her most nights and she'd come to bed at around 4 am or so, then I'd get up at 7 to get our daughter ready for school.

    As for her working, I brought it up the day I lost the most recent job, and again when we got the letter that my unemployment was ending and that's where the housewife argument came from.

    The first week that we separated, I set up a marriage counseling session for us at the end of the week. I told her about it, and she wasn't interested. Not because she wasn't interested in saving our marriage, she said, but because her family went to a family counselor when she was younger (her mom and stepdad had been separated off and on all through her life, so she probably thinks that this is normal) and she says that the counselor mostly wrote stuff down and took a side at the end and it didn't do any of them any good. I told her that that was that counselor, and this is another. I'd even managed to get the session for free by going through a local church, who highly recommended him. But in the end, she didn't go and I had to cancel as having her watch the kids while I go to marriage counseling alone seemed kind of weird.
    Last edited by Zom B; 2012-05-10 at 08:55 AM.
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  20. - Top - End - #290

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    She was implicitly asking you to step up and be a man. Regularly caving when she wanted to spend important money on a stupid video game is not how you show you're the take-charge type that women actually want. Letting her continue to be sloppy about important household responsibilities without repercussion is being a doormat. The best you could have hoped for was to be someone she tolerated for regular infusions of cash.

    Remember for later. Stand your ground. Be a man.

    As for now, her unwillingness to see a counselor is part of a pattern of behavior that you should see with crystal clarity. She may be willing to coast along when you're the chump who's willing to foot the bill. She's not willing to work on things from her end, and apparently hasn't been for a long time. You should still get counseling for yourself. For now, this is irreparable. You're well to be rid of her.

  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Zom B, I'm not going to try and give you advice. I just want to say that I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. I can only imagine how hard it is.

    Awesome Flashman avatar and Flashman Escaping sig by Elder Tsofu . My eternal thanks.

  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Well Zom B... not sure if I have much to say but my brother went through much the same thing a few years ago. They weren't married but were engaged and had been living together for a few years. She ended up going to be with the other guy for a while but it didn't last long. It was WoW specifically for her, but its all about the same.
    Not sure about your case, but for her it seemed like she wasn't actually ready to "settle down" and she wasn't ready to be an adult and take care of herself and deal with life. Which seems to be much the same as what you've said, because games, mmos especially can be a way of avoiding real life.

    And in another friend I think I'm seeing something similar, just an inability to really deal with life and finding a way to escape it.
    I don't think there is anything that can really be done about it, but it is at least a potentially different point of view on the actual problem. And not being able to deal with life in general will change perspectives on relationships and its usually easier to blame that for the problem because "it was easier" for them to deal with when life was simpler and they didn't actually have to take care of themselves (and in the case kids as well, kids really make life hard if you aren't really ready for them).

  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    D&M with most recent ex going... better than expected, ackshully. Wish I could help him with his horrendous luck, though

  24. - Top - End - #294

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Docking and Munting?

    (I'm going to quickly translate that as Deep and Meaningful so that nobody else has to see the urbandictionary trolling I just saw.)

    Best things you can do for him as an ex are to help him with fashion pointers (looks do matter, and lots of guys lack the skills), and have mutual friends drag him out to do things. Same as my advice to Succubus from the other end of things. You want him nice and presentable, and you want him to have plenty of opportunities to meet people who aren't you.

    Actually going shopping with him optional, but recommended.

  25. - Top - End - #295
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Eh, he's pretty good grooming-wise (or at least was last I saw him). He has his own style, and it suits him pretty well. He shaves, he showers... He's fine in that regard.
    And he has been going out and hanging out with friends. Possibly drinking too much, but I don't think he's usually alone when he does so. Not much I can really help with when I'm on the other side of the planet, though.

    His luck mostly seems to be women leaving him (*raises hand*, but also someone else), women giving an "it's not you, it's me" speech (a good friend of mine - do I pretend to be all outraged at her, or do I not? ), a business deal going down in flames, and his kitten getting bitten by a snake. So yeah...

    I wish I didn't feel like I'm walking on eggshells with him. He says he's not angry any more, and we had a proper talk for once, but I'm worried that if I say the wrong thing - or rather, if I don't say exactly the right thing - it'll all explode again

  26. - Top - End - #296

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    It's not just maintaining baseline hygiene. I might be totally off-base with your ex, but a lot of guys around here really seem like they could use good female friends to help them find fashions that work for them. Often, that'd be more productive than looking for girlfriends. Looks matter for guys too, and having someone with fashion skills can be invaluable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    I wish I didn't feel like I'm walking on eggshells with him. He says he's not angry any more, and we had a proper talk for once, but I'm worried that if I say the wrong thing - or rather, if I don't say exactly the right thing - it'll all explode again
    This just ... ugh. The words "walking on eggshells" and "explode" make me wonder, once again, why people don't see what would be blindingly obvious if anybody else said it. I could get down to practical advice if I knew the guy, but he sounds like he has to get his **** together first.

    It sounds like there are much deeper issues at play here. If it's okay for me to ask, what's he doing to work on them?

  27. - Top - End - #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Eh, he's pretty good grooming-wise (or at least was last I saw him). He has his own style, and it suits him pretty well. He shaves, he showers... He's fine in that regard.
    And he has been going out and hanging out with friends. Possibly drinking too much, but I don't think he's usually alone when he does so. Not much I can really help with when I'm on the other side of the planet, though.

    His luck mostly seems to be women leaving him (*raises hand*, but also someone else), women giving an "it's not you, it's me" speech (a good friend of mine - do I pretend to be all outraged at her, or do I not? ), a business deal going down in flames, and his kitten getting bitten by a snake. So yeah...

    I wish I didn't feel like I'm walking on eggshells with him. He says he's not angry any more, and we had a proper talk for once, but I'm worried that if I say the wrong thing - or rather, if I don't say exactly the right thing - it'll all explode again
    Sounds like you're having a rough time hun. =/

    One thing I will say from my current perspective is that it is possible to be too honest. If my ex turned round to me and hit me with a list of all things that annoyed her about me, I don't think I'd be able to deal with it right now. So if you are going to do a D&M, emphasise the bits of him that you were initially drawn to and why, along with the areas for improvement.

    Oh, one more thought - it's a pretty fair bet that a lot of the things you're concerned about saying have probably gone through his mind already at some point. There's nothing quite like a break-up to encourage deep introspection and self critique....That said though, you know the guy better than we do and you know better than us how well he would react to criticism. If you think he might hulk out over something, it might be better to give him a little more time to heal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas-Dakota View Post
    Succubus gets grongratulatory cookies from me. You have stepped into the realm of puns that only the likes of Death, Your Friend the Reaper have seen.

    Posting schedule likely to be erratic for the next few weeks - sorting out some personal stuff.

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    It's not just maintaining baseline hygiene. I might be totally off-base with your ex, but a lot of guys around here really seem like they could use good female friends to help them find fashions that work for them. Often, that'd be more productive than looking for girlfriends. Looks matter for guys too, and having someone with fashion skills can be invaluable.
    You seem kinda bizarrely fixated on this bit Seriously, his appearance is fine. His fashion of choice suits him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    It sounds like there are much deeper issues at play here. If it's okay for me to ask, what's he doing to work on them?
    Not sure. This was the first pleasant (and sober) conversation we've had for... couple of months, I think. He's getting out there and falling for other people... but just seems to be getting bad luck piled on bad luck (and like I said, I'm not just talking about relationship-variety bad luck).

    I think I should say, I have no intention of giving him a critical run-down. He's having a ****ty time, and has no one much to talk to about them except the one who caused a significant slice of aforementioned ****ty time. I wish I could help. The most I've been able to do so far is suggest that maybe he should get out of that town, so he can start moving in new circles, with people who aren't just going to be there until they graduate.
    I am feeling a lot more positive, though, that he was willing to talk to me about this stuff at all... Our last extended conversation was, shall we say, far less pleasant.

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Sometimes, even just a few words of text over the internet can do a lot to make someone feel happier about themselves. I found this out on here today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas-Dakota View Post
    Succubus gets grongratulatory cookies from me. You have stepped into the realm of puns that only the likes of Death, Your Friend the Reaper have seen.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Sorry to hear all the **** people are going through... anything I can think of that might be helpful has already been said, however, so I don't really have anything to add.


    As for me, I realized something today, and have no idea what (if anything) it means. The social circles that I have here are incredibly different than the ones I have back 'home' (home's a weird word for where I grew up, when I haven't lived there in 5.5 years, and won't be able to even consider moving back there for another 3-4 years). Specifically, the people who I'm close to (that I'd go out of my way to hang out with) here are overwhelmingly women (5 of the 7), along with a guy who I found out this week is gay (not a problem, but it seems like a unique category, for some reason). Also, ages range from 8 months older than me (the only one older) to 2.5 years younger than me, fairly evenly spread throughout that range. Back 'home', meanwhile, my group is smaller (4 people), but all older (one by 4 months, the others by 3-4 years), and 3 of 4 are straight men.

    Like I said, not sure what that means, but it seems like it's something noteworthy, at the very least. Or maybe I'm just rambling
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