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  1. - Top - End - #331
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    when I am in a relationship with someone, she is free to peek through my cellphone and my internet logs
    Once you give someone permission to do this, it is no longer your private space, so "snooping" is moot.

  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainKing View Post
    Like prufock said, I don't feel that snooping is acceptable, no matter what the reason for it. I feel like, it's private for a reason. If they wanted me to know, they'd tell me about it. That's the kind of communicative ideal I strive for.
    The reason they don't want you to know may be because it's something bad that you should know. Like the fact that they're cheating on you or cleverly taking advantage of you in some way. You would want to know about these kinds of things so you can put a stop to them for your own good. But they wouldn't want you to know because they don't want you to put a stop to them.

    It's surprising how many unscrupulous people there are in the world.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by prufock View Post
    Once you give someone permission to do this, it is no longer your private space, so "snooping" is moot.
    fair enough, and I'd be cool with that..because she'd be my partner.

    then again giving permission doesn't mean that it's always cool or the right thing to do. there would still need to be a reasonably serious motive for her to want to come lurking in my stuff. if she just went ahead and did it routinely for being a prodnose or having no manners, it would not sit well with me.. because it would verge on the obsessively jealous/possessive.. but then..that's not the kind of woman I'd be involved with anyway.
    I'd expect my partner to know these basic things...or what would I be wasting my time with her for?
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  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I'm very ambivalent about the whole thing. I suppose I'd say it's only - only - at all justified if you have a great deal of cause to do it, but if it even gets to that point, whether you're right or not, there's already something wrong in that relationship.
    I will observe, though, that several people have said that "if your suspicions are confirmed by your snooping, then your snooping is justified". But until you snoop, you don't know. As far as you know when you start snooping, your suspicions could very well be wrong. How can you apply post-hoc justification? That doesn't work for me.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I wouldn't be cool with anyone going through my phone or computer messages. I loved and trusted my ex but did I want her to vet every single thought or word that left mind? No. What trust means is knowing your partner probably has things they want to keep to themselves and letting them keep their secrets.

    On the.subject of my ex, my mood is still bouncing around like a rubber ball with a caffeine addiction but I'm sleeping again. I'll be glad when I'm back to my easy going self again - fortunately I have a friend visiting me tomorrow and that will help immensely.
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    I don't know, I just find the idea of unconditional trust to be illogical and stupid given that all people are capable of telling falsehoods (deliberately or otherwise). Conditional trust, I can get on board with. And one of those conditions would be something along the lines of the way you behave does not give me any reason to suspect that you are up to something particularly bad, except hopefully better defined.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    I'm very ambivalent about the whole thing. I suppose I'd say it's only - only - at all justified if you have a great deal of cause to do it, but if it even gets to that point, whether you're right or not, there's already something wrong in that relationship.
    I will observe, though, that several people have said that "if your suspicions are confirmed by your snooping, then your snooping is justified". But until you snoop, you don't know. As far as you know when you start snooping, your suspicions could very well be wrong. How can you apply post-hoc justification? That doesn't work for me.
    you don't.. when you realize you've been an ass and your suspicions were wrong, you're totally at fault and deserve all the crap your partner decides to dish out.. or, if you play your cards right, you can come clean about what you did, and do all you can to make it up to her/him.
    that said, if you get snooping it's because there's a serious reason for it..so, chances are you're right. if you start snooping just because you have an opportunity you're just being a jealous moron/control freak..and that brings me back to deserving everything you get for being one.
    Last edited by dehro; 2012-05-16 at 05:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    I'm very ambivalent about the whole thing. I suppose I'd say it's only - only - at all justified if you have a great deal of cause to do it, but if it even gets to that point, whether you're right or not, there's already something wrong in that relationship.
    I will observe, though, that several people have said that "if your suspicions are confirmed by your snooping, then your snooping is justified". But until you snoop, you don't know. As far as you know when you start snooping, your suspicions could very well be wrong. How can you apply post-hoc justification? That doesn't work for me.
    I agree with Serp. I'd want to address why I'm suspicious in the first place with my partner, and try to handle it with open communication. If I can't do that, then there's definitely something wrong, and it's something that I feel is far worse than my partner's boots winding up under someone else's bed.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    I wouldn't be cool with anyone going through my phone or computer messages. I loved and trusted my ex but did I want her to vet every single thought or word that left mind? No. What trust means is knowing your partner probably has things they want to keep to themselves and letting them keep their secrets.
    I agree with Succubus as well, especially if it were, say, things I possibly said while upset or angry. It's been something I've been working on, but in the past, I've said some pretty darn flippant, if not outright disrespectful and mean, things about my partners because I was angry with them for something while I was talking with my friends. Did I feel that way after the disagreement was resolved? No, because it was resolved. However, until then, if the pot is simmering, it has a tendency to spit, should the lid not be settled properly.
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  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Don't snoop.

    If you feel like there's something fishy, confront the other person. If they're the lying type, they'll lie for awhile until something happens that they can't cover; you'll feel dumb for believing them, and betrayed, but it's survivable. If they're not, then they'll admit it and you can get right to the "what are we going to do about it?" part. And if they're innocent, they'll get a chance to explain whatever you misunderstood, or to change their behavior if you explain what's bothering you.

    If you snoop, you'll either find something - in which case you'll still feel dumb and betrayed, with the added possible bonus of seeing that which cannot be unseen. And you'll still have to confront them, although you do get to skip past the denials if that was a thing that was going to happen, but you've just handed them the loaded gun of "why were you snooping in my private business?", and now you get to share the bad guy spotlight instead of shining it all on them. Or you won't find anything, which will not assuage your fishy feeling at all - you won't know if there's nothing to find or if they're just really good at covering their tracks. Which will tempt you to snoop more, and trust less. It's a toxic cycle that will only wind up hurting you, and instead of the quick lance of the difficult "what's going on?" conversation, you get the gnawing cancer of "what's going on?" bouncing around inside your own head for as long as the relationship lasts.
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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by bokodasu View Post
    "why were you snooping in my private business?"
    how about
    "because apparently your private business consists in betraying my trust/affection/love, going behind my back and doing the naughty/shacking up with someone else instead of talking about whatever problems we may have..when were you going to tell me and how dare you take the moral highground?"

    seriously..one may have all the reasons in the world to be mad if there turns out not to be anything on that phone/internet account... but if it does contain proof of serious wrongdoing, then that takes absolute precedence.
    btw, if I got access to that phone/computer, it's because either I already knew the password because "she gave it me" or because it wasn't password protected in the first place... we're talking about a phone here..something I might just need to acces because I'm looking for a phone number she has and I haven't.. not her "secret diary" or any such thing.
    admittedly however, this is semantics..the main thing that overrules the whole snooping issue is that I have never had any secrets for my partners, and expect them not to have any towards me. if she suddenly started to hide her cellphone and delete her chatlogs, I would be legitimized in finding it highly suspicious.
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  11. - Top - End - #341
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    These are very serious definitions of "stuff I want to keep private or secret" whereas I wouldn't want my partner snooping through me emails as it has details of things like birthday presents and arrangements in there...
    Turn it around, even if the person is innocent, your snooping may have spoiled a really great surprise they had planned for you. Which would be rubbish.

  12. - Top - End - #342
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I don't know. I don't really like the idea of people snooping through my private things, even if they are were my partner. I mean, part of the whole relationship paradigm is being able to trust your partner and I think snooping where you shouldn't kinda violates that. I understand if people think the end justifies the means but I personally don't think it does.

    That said, I do understand the feelings behind doing it, especially if you do find out something bad. I just don't think it's the right thing to do. Yes, they may have done a bad thing themselves, but violating their privacy doesn't suddenly make it all better. Two wrongs not making a right, all that jazz.

    Sorry if I'm intruding where I shouldn't, I just wanted to offer an opinion.
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  13. - Top - End - #343
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Objection View Post
    I don't know, I just find the idea of unconditional trust to be illogical and stupid given that all people are capable of telling falsehoods (deliberately or otherwise).
    There is quite a gulf between "snooping in someone else's private space is a jerk move" and "trust everybody, always."

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Palthera View Post
    Turn it around, even if the person is innocent, your snooping may have spoiled a really great surprise they had planned for you. Which would be rubbish.
    very true..and I've already said what I think about that too... so I'm not going to bore anyone further
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by prufock View Post
    There is quite a gulf between "snooping in someone else's private space is a jerk move" and "trust everybody, always."
    The way people are arguing it doesn't make it sound like there is.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Darn it! The girl I was kind of getting along with and hoping to see more of is moving away for the entire summer. *sigh*
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Question ladies:

    A man about your age, who you know reasonably well, has invited you to a dinner. It will not be some fancy place with a French name, but it neither will it be McDonalds (Think something like Outback, Red Lobster, or TGI Friday's).

    Please rank the following transportation situations in increasing order of tackiness (least tacky at the top, tackiest at the bottom):
    He asks you to show up at the place
    His parent drives the both of you there
    You both take a bus.
    Sharing a cab.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Herpestidae View Post

    Please rank the following transportation situations in increasing order of tackiness (least tacky at the top, tackiest at the bottom):
    He asks you to show up at the place
    His parent drives the both of you there
    You both take a bus.
    Sharing a cab.
    As a guy...

    (Best to worst)

    1.Taxi
    2. Bus
    3. Both turn up there
    4. Parents drive

    2 and 3 are pretty much the same level of tackiness, I think . And 4 depends on how old you both are.

    That said... I wouldn't stress about it too much . A good date is more than just avoiding 'tackiness'

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Age is definitely a factor in that, as well as location. A taxi would be unusual where I live, but in some places they are very common. A bus isn't even an option. Having your parents take you is fine until 16, situation dependent until about 22, and not really an option after that.

    If its "as friends" then it changes things too as opposed to (at least an implied) date.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Objection View Post
    The way people are arguing it doesn't make it sound like there is.
    There's a bit of hypocrisy/paradox here.

    Snooping in somebody's private emails/phone records/whatever is pretty much an admission that you don't trust them.

    However (for me at least) part of the trust implicit in a relationship is that my partner should respect my privacy and boundaries. Which includes not snooping.

    So, for me, not only is snooping an admission of lack of trust, it's also an admission of lack of trustworthiness.

    If the boundaries somebody erects around themselves/their privacy are unacceptable, then that's a subject for discussion, or if all else fails, you end the relationship because you can't cope with them. But you don't intentionally breach them without warning just because you don't agree with them.

    I'd also say that trust is, by my understanding, the defining feature of any relationship. Your closest friends are those you trust the most. Your partner has, by entering into a relationship with you, implicitly covenanted not to breach your trust in certain ways. Every time you contract somebody's services or purchase their goods, you trust that they'll do their job to a certain minimum standard, and so on.

    As with trust (although I think it's a subset thereof), there is a sliding scale when it comes to snooping/privacy. If, for instance, you use the same webmail account as your partner, you visit it to check yours, find that theirs is logged in and, as you move the mouse to log out, your eye is caught by an email entitled "hello big boy, looking forward to seeing you again tomorrow", I don't think it's unreasonable to take a look. If you go to the computer with the intention of reading your partner's emails (without their permission), I think that's a different story.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Herpestidae View Post
    Question ladies:

    A man about your age, who you know reasonably well, has invited you to a dinner. It will not be some fancy place with a French name, but it neither will it be McDonalds (Think something like Outback, Red Lobster, or TGI Friday's).

    Please rank the following transportation situations in increasing order of tackiness (least tacky at the top, tackiest at the bottom):
    He asks you to show up at the place
    His parent drives the both of you there
    You both take a bus.
    Sharing a cab.
    I'm not sure what you're meaning by tackiness, but if you are thinking that she will think less of you because of your means of transportation, are you sure that's someone that you wish to ask out?

    I mean yes, there is a certain age that asking your parents to take you would be kinda embarassing, but taking the bus or a taxi or meeting her at the restaurant are all reasonable options to take.
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  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Herpestidae View Post
    Question ladies:

    A man about your age, who you know reasonably well, has invited you to a dinner. It will not be some fancy place with a French name, but it neither will it be McDonalds (Think something like Outback, Red Lobster, or TGI Friday's).

    Please rank the following transportation situations in increasing order of tackiness (least tacky at the top, tackiest at the bottom):
    He asks you to show up at the place
    His parent drives the both of you there
    You both take a bus.
    Sharing a cab.
    Are you close enough to walk? Walking can be an excellent addition to the date (even if it takes 30 mins each way or, depending on the person, especially if).

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    make her meet you there only if you can walk her home or don't mind being interrupted by an anxious father
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    So, myself and the lady are finally planning to have an actual Date (with a capital D) sometime soon. I'm all out of ideas though, so this could get interesting. Ah well, I'm sure it'll all work out. I's happyful.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Tapas! Tapas and Necropolis!

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Tapas! Tapas and Necropolis!
    Tapas is always excellent. I've never actually taken someone on a tapas date, I suppose I shall have to fix that. And yeah, Necropolis is pretty. Sounds pretty good
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Yay! \o/
    You should take something sweet and have dessert in the Necropolis.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Good lord, you're good! What sort of dessert were you thinking?
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Hmmmmmmm.
    ...
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Any idea what sort of a person she is? Chocolate, fruit, dairy?

  30. - Top - End - #360
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I'm not really sure to be honest. 'Course, I could just ask if she fancies dessert, and see what she thinks would be good. I think I'll go with that idea.
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