Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[Cobra_Ikari]

I know it feels cruel, but it probably is best for you to just drop it. Unfortunately, a lot of times, in situations like these, trying to let someone down gently or providing an explanation for why you've said harsh things ends up getting interpreted as an invitation to continue the previous behavior. *hugs of good luck*

[dehro]

you were.. harsh.
he might have had very little or no malice in his trying to bring the spark back to life.. and come over a lot more creepy than he actually meant to be (not that anyone purposedly tries to be creepy unless he's from "lonely island", which is an appropriate name, come to think of it.. .. but you get what I meant, I hope)

also, I am now picturing the two of you duelling out your mutual differences on a beach at sunrise.. using quarterstaffs.
I don't suppose he's got 3 burly henchmen, white long hair and white Sasquatch eyebrows?
I gotta stop watching wuxia movies... and yeah.. probably best to just drop it and hope he'll find closure on his own accord and his own time.

[Reluctance]

*stuff*

Yes, she could've been nicer about it. There's a lot that, given all the time in the world to think it over, could have been done differently.

You. Dehro. Right now. Are part of the problem.

The heart of the issue is this. Ceric said in no uncertain terms that she was creeped out, and that she didn't want to deal with her ex anymore. The important thing is that she spoke up, and that she should be listened to. Telling her that she should have done things differently undermines that point.

(It's also likely to happen again. At which point, she should have a friend/roommate tell him point-blank that he's been scaring her, and that she doesn't want to deal with him any more. Have faculty do this if he tries to use the club. Basically, don't engage him, and have somebody else tell him that he's not welcome if the point is pressed.)

[dehro]

(It's also likely to happen again. At which point, she should have a friend/roommate tell him point-blank that he's been scaring her, and that she doesn't want to deal with him any more. Have faculty do this if he tries to use the club. Basically, don't engage him, and have somebody else tell him that he's not welcome if the point is pressed.)

which is exactly what I suggested in my first comment to the situation. I don't object to anything she said to him (as if it was my place to).. I merely think she could have worded it in less ...confrontational terms..if nothing else because they may very well incite a further reply... although by her last update, that's unlikely to happen since the ball is now in her court and the best thing she can do now is to not reply to him and see if that will stop him from pursuing further contact... which is, again, what you and I sem to agree upon.
Ceric strikes me as a girl that knows how to handle herself and who doesn't let herself be undermined by a random stranger who think she may have been more outspoken than the situation warranted. I'm sure she knows best whether the situation warranted it or whether she was being a bit nasty to him. I simply offered a slightly different perspective with a comment on the wording she used, which doesn't mean she did wrong in how she handled the guy.. so I don't really think that should make me "part of any problem".
if however she disagrees, I'll be happy to "move away" from this particular situation. the last thing I want is to be responsible for making her second guess her perceptions or intentions towards the guy, when she's the most qualified person to tell us (if she wants to) where the guy is placed on the scale that goes from being a reasonable, if smitten individual all the way to being a possible security threat.
personal safety first. always.

[Coidzor]

Coidzor and Reluctance, thank you for pointing that out. He's actually already replied to it, is feeling terrible and confused that I hate him so much when he doesn't hate me at all, and is sorry for whatever it is that he did that caused it, as well as offering to explain himself to any questions I may want to ask him. I was torn between explaining myself and just dropping it as is... I guess I'll do the latter.

(See? I'm not good-natured. Warned y'all Not beating myself up, Reluctance, just... reining it in for next time.)

You're way too soft on him, even if you're not good-natured, if you felt any temptation other than to block him or tell him to cease his attempts at contact and to not try to bring this up IRL. If someone has gotten to the point where you actually feel you can accurately call them a stalker, the time for kindness and understanding is past and defusing the situation and ending it insofar as that is possible is the order of the day.

I can't remember if there was any officership on your part or his, but you're going to need to find someone else to be the one to inform him of any official club business that he would need to be informed of as a member of his standing by someone in your position or vice versa. Even if as just preparation for if he forces you down the next steps. Though I think it's a good idea to enact now, but I may have missed some background information when I read your first post on the matter.

[Ceric]

also, I am now picturing the two of you duelling out your mutual differences on a beach at sunrise.. using quarterstaffs.

My avatar, I'm assuming? More realistically, it would be wushu vs taekwondo. And his taekwondo would probably win

To be honest, when I spent more time around him I found aspects of his beliefs and personality that just rubbed me the wrong way. It's nothing that would bother me so much in a friend but severely turned off any desire to continue dating him. So I told myself that we'd break up but I'd let all that current dislike be water under the bridge so we could start over as friends. Didn't happen as I planned. So now I dislike him not so much for being a creeper as for setting off all my creeper alarms plus already having reasons to dislike him. If I stop to think about it, I don't think he'd ever actually sexually assault me. He's far too nice to do that; his current creepiness is out of (vast, vast) ignorance rather than some evil purpose. But... "hope for the best, prepare for the worst"? I don't want to get burned by assuming only the best of everyone. And he is causing me stress. I am justifying this to myself as well as to you guys as I write. Despite that you are already telling me that was I did was the right thing to do. Why are relationships so complicated? >> And I don't doubt that he still wants to get in my pants if an opportunity to get back together occured.

The harshness of the email, though, I can see that. It's what happens when I forget to let an email sit for 10 hours between writing and sending >> (And I do realize there's a scale between being too harsh to someone and being too nice to someone who deserves harshness, and that dehro was advocating somewhere in the middle.)

As for the club, which consists of maybe 15-20 regulars, 5 who come sometimes, and maybe another 10 or so who drop in very occasionally, I'm a regular member and roughly medium-high ranking (give or take for bias I've even led the club once when the officers were busy) while he's somewhere between the latter two categories. Neither of us are officers, although we probably have equal-ish relationships with them (me for being a regular, a roommate of one of the officers, and playing co-op TF2 every night for the last three days with 4 or 5 other members including the president and one of the coaches ; him because he's also friends with everyone (one of the new members recently called him "the nicest guy he's ever met") and we don't measure worth by connections if anyone asks).

[Eadin]

Some sort of follow-up from my last post:

Spoiler

Show

So, my date was wednesday and I am really glad I didn't chicken out.
It went great, we talked non-stop and I had a great time. He even brought me a souvenir from his vacation ( a semi-precious stone, simple and sweet :))
I gave him a kiss on his cheek ( too shy to go for a real kiss) and he texted me afterwards that it was perfect a perfect night.
We have been texting a lot since then, I really think there's something.
Thing is I don't really know what to do next. I have exams next week so I can't see him then. I want to ask him out again, but maybe I should wait for him to do so? I dn't really know, I'm still a bit insecure about this whole dating thing. I really like him though...

End of rant

[The Succubus]

That sounds really sweet, Eadin.

Let him know that you have exams coming up and fix another special date for afterwards so that you both have something to look forward to and focus on. It seems you both like each other so don't worry about the "dating rules" or the "should he/should I" thing. They're mostly a crock anyway.

[arguskos]

Some sort of follow-up from my last post:

Spoiler

Show

So, my date was wednesday and I am really glad I didn't chicken out.
It went great, we talked non-stop and I had a great time. He even brought me a souvenir from his vacation ( a semi-precious stone, simple and sweet :))
I gave him a kiss on his cheek ( too shy to go for a real kiss) and he texted me afterwards that it was perfect a perfect night.
We have been texting a lot since then, I really think there's something.
Thing is I don't really know what to do next. I have exams next week so I can't see him then. I want to ask him out again, but maybe I should wait for him to do so? I dn't really know, I'm still a bit insecure about this whole dating thing. I really like him though...

End of rant

Go ahead and take the initiative. Send him a text saying something along the lines of "hey, I really had a great time and want to see you again. How about in two weeks, when my exams are done and we can really spend some time together? Maybe <an activity you think he'll like here>?"

On my own side of things, it's normal to be a bit nervous about date planning, right? Cause, uh, yeah, I'm pretty twitchy about planning dates with the new GF. Not sure entirely what she enjoys doing outside of work (while she does enjoy her work, it's not something that can be done really outside of where she works) and interneting (always possible, but not good date material). I've been using the opportunity to go out in the wilderness and explore a little, which we've both been enjoying, but I don't want to push that too much. Gotta balance. She's a bit artsy and pretty laid back, so that makes it both easier and harder.

tl;dr: Any advice for planning dates with a artsy laid back GF who seems to enjoy little woodland trips without leaning too hard on the woodland bit?

EDIT: Succubus has it right, by the way. Those stupid dating rules are mostly insipid. Just figure out your chemistry and go from there.

[Eadin]

Myes, I agree with the dating rules thing.
Just don't want to come across as too eager because our last date was a few days ago.
He knows about my exams, btw and we agreed to hang out after.
Just not sure what...
I'm just worrying a bit much about making him like me, he probably already does.. But worry is what I do.

@Arguskos:
I really like walking around in a pretty city at night (and am artsy person, gives me inspiration.) How about a picknick somewhere. Or stargazing?

EDIT: got a movie and drinks date the day after my last exam! Weeee

[Dallas-Dakota]

I'm in college, I work, I do volunteer work, go frequently to parties & festivals, this all with chronic migraine.
I have awesome friends, both female and male.
I've even had people ask me how I am always with good looking girls, because I regularly am, but they're just friends.
On the romantic level I'm just a failure and I'm really tired of being ''alone''.

Well what it grinds down too, is that i'm pretty happy with my life, and i'm not even going to ask for advice with the ladies, because standard advice doesn't work for me, thus I think I just have to figure it out for myself.(And no, the answer is not ''cut down on your worklist, because I've had relationships while this busy before and they worked pretty well untill we broke up because she was moving to Scotland)
The question is, how do I cope with the feelings of lonelyness until I meet somebody I feel strongly about, romantically/get into a new relationship?

As for my relationship history: I've only been in a couple relationships, the longest lasting half a year, the shortest a month orso. I've been single for quite a bit now, so I have no idea why these feelings are kicking in now....

Might be all the women in bikini's.

[inky13112]

I'm in college, I work, I do volunteer work, go frequently to parties & festivals, this all with chronic migraine.
I have awesome friends, both female and male.
I've even had people ask me how I am always with good looking girls, because I regularly am, but they're just friends.
On the romantic level I'm just a failure and I'm really tired of being ''alone''.

Well what it grinds down too, is that i'm pretty happy with my life, and i'm not even going to ask for advice with the ladies, because standard advice doesn't work for me, thus I think I just have to figure it out for myself.(And no, the answer is not ''cut down on your worklist, because I've had relationships while this busy before and they worked pretty well untill we broke up because she was moving to Scotland)
The question is, how do I cope with the feelings of lonelyness until I meet somebody I feel strongly about, romantically/get into a new relationship?

As for my relationship history: I've only been in a couple relationships, the longest lasting half a year, the shortest a month orso. I've been single for quite a bit now, so I have no idea why these feelings are kicking in now....

Might be all the women in bikini's.

I think the consensus for someone else who had a similar problem was to get a pet or a hobby.

Oh, that's a . . . horse of a different colour.

To start, goals. set goals of what you want your life to look like with irrespective of a relationships. Could be everything from fixing up the house, career or education work etc. For a lot of people their relationship is the maintence and price reason they go to work etc. Make sure you have something.
Socially try to work up guys night out or something were you can be social without romantic relationship pairings dominating the dynamic of the social order. Guys night out works, clubs, or even running your own roleplaying game. Something to keep you socially satisfied and not feeling like you are missing out.
A pet. depending on your situation (living set up) you may or may not be able to use this one. But having a dog or a cat can be very helpful. Someone that greets you when you come home, a source of cuddles, someone that depends on you are all helpful things. Esp a bachalor (or bachalorette for those ladies reading the thread).
Finnally solitary hobbies. Crafts, Reading, writing for your RPG (the game not grenade), stuff that makes you feel productive and happy without needing an audience or someone to share thing with. Cooking and movies are not ones I'd recomend as cooking often mmakes you want to share as it can be hard to find single portion recipies that work well and movies etc half the fun is the chat afterward for many people.


hmmm. . .all I got at the moment.
g'luck on that


I'd really want to agree with you but the ton of compliments about how great a SO you'd be, for someone else, is actually worse. at least IMH

Not an exact fit but perhaps still somewhat applicable. I'm partial to cats personally so thats what I'd recommend.

[Reluctance]

Eadin: What you're going through is perfectly natural. All the early-stage phases involve a good bit of anxiety, work, and outright terror. (If they don't, it's because the other person was doing all the heavy lifting, and if they do all that work on your behalf, things tend to go off the rails when you learn why.) Enjoy, and realize that he's probably too busy watching his own behavior to overanalyze yours.

DD (Who, from his post, doesn't lack for hobbies. I don't see that being any more than tired old advice): How often do you get cast as the emotional boyfriend? That is, the one who they come to for emotional support, but where they only exist when they want something. When you're in college, many people are thoughtless. Realize which ones only want you around when they want something, and free up the time you spend with them to seek other people.

After that, have good friends who understand girls (either by dint of being girls who honestly prize you as a friend instead of this, or guy friends who have an easy time finding girls.) Go out with them for things like fashion pointers, advice on cold-approaching a girl, and be willing to deconstruct things after the fact with them. I see you as having absorbed too much of the "don't do anything that could potentially ever make a girl uncomfortable in any situation" advice. Thing is, while you should clearly learn to read the signs of disinterest, you should also learn to spot signs of interest. And not be afraid of making moves before you're well into the safe friendship area.

[Form]

Well, it looks like I've set up a date myself. It's a standard movie date, but it seems like a decent start to me. I'm probably not going to make a 'move' just yet (as in, go for a kiss) unless the situation really calls for it .

I'll just have to see how it goes and if it goes well we can make plans for a second date. In the mean time this is about having fun.

[RabbitHoleLost]

So Logan already has another girl.
On top of that, its his friends sister. You know, the one I found out about while we were dating.
And I shouldn't care, I shouldn't, but I feel pretty much dead,

[Serpentine]

Forget shouldn't. Shouldn't is meaningless, pointless, and gets in the way of dealing with it. You do, and that's okay. Now you've just got to work out how to handle that fact.
And I'm so sorry. All the empathies

[Eadin]

*hugs for rabbit*
@Form: Yay! Have fun! *thumbs up*
@ DD: I'd agree with the whole finding a hobby thing, but you already seem to have a pretty busy life..
I don't really have any advice, just not to worry about it too much? Sorry I can't provide anything useful... have a hug *hugs*

[sktarq]

So Logan already has another girl.
On top of that, its his friends sister. You know, the one I found out about while we were dating.
And I shouldn't care, I shouldn't, but I feel pretty much dead,

Okaay. . . now why shouldn't you care? Because you two stopped going out a fortnight ago and he is now with a woman who you thought he was uncomfortably close with during a significant part of your relationship. Even before you broke up it was the story you chose to tell us as a major turning point in your relationship. So his relationship with he does have the foundation to hurt you extra hard. So you can dump "shouldn't care".
It doesn't mean you did anything wrong, or that you didn't matter (hell it could be rebound), are any of that. It does mean it is time to get on with your own life though. You have never lacked for friends, excitement etc except when you chose to. So go live that life. Have fun. A SO isn't nessesary for that. Ladies night perhaps. It is obvious you cared for this young man but it didn't work out and you flat admitted you two had problems. It happens. And the failure of a relationship doesn't mean you are a failure as human being.

again try to have fun, but don't be overly stupid about it (no handles of vodka at a frat party for example)

and *hugs*

[The Succubus]

@Rabbit: I really don't have anything useful to add but I hope you'll be ok.

[ForzaFiori]

So, I promised an update after I asked out the Italian girl I was crushing on. Turns out she already HAS a bf.

People need to keep their fb statuses up to date.

[Sturmcrow]

Rabbit, feelings don't just go away, there is nothing wrong with having these feelings. Work through them, take a break from them when you need to but don't suppress them. The best way is to push forward. Eventually the hurt will not be so bad.

And this is coming from a guy who last December found is 10 year long relationship was over by catching my gf starting a new relationship behind my back. I understand heartache. I really understand how hard it is to not care. Hell, just today I was feeling pity for my ex and feeling bad because her life has gone into the toilet while mine has not (and I think a large part of that is facing and dealing with my feelings rather than trying to push them all down deep inside).

It will get better, take the time you need to let it.

You deserve better than that, keep telling yourself this.

[Reluctance]

Question for the terminally nice: Do you think Rabbit invests this much time and thought into Nice Guys after things end? How about while actively involved with them?

*cue "the more you know" jingle*

[RabbitHoleLost]

Question for the terminally nice: Do you think Rabbit invests this much time and thought into Nice Guys after things end? How about while actively involved with them?

*cue "the more you know" jingle*

Actual, real nice guys- the ones who don't use the "Nice guys get pooped on in favor of jerks" bit- don't play women, and leave relationships as easily and as kindly as possible.
So, no, I've never invested as much thought and time into Nice Guys after things end, because there were never loose ends. When two people treat eachother well, there is very rarely a need for bad feelings at the end.

(Your PM did nothing to make you look better, by the by)

[Logic]

Actual, real nice guys- the ones who don't use the "Nice guys get pooped on in favor of jerks" bit- don't play women, and leave relationships as easily and as kindly as possible.
So, no, I've never invested as much thought and time into Nice Guys after things end, because there were never loose ends. When two people treat eachother well, there is very rarely a need for bad feelings at the end.

(Your PM did nothing to make you look better, by the by)

My opinion: Nice guys get passed up all the time. That being said, too many "Nice Guys" seem to think that the object* of their affection OWES them something. In reality, I have met a great number of "Nice Guys" that were really just as jerky as the jerks the girls were complaining about. They are just not as confident and forward as the jerks they are competing with.

*I say object because to the "Nice Guy" a woman is not a person, they are a sex object.

Rabbit, if you would like my assistance, I am willing to try.

EDIT: In retrospect, my last sentence sounds a little sleazy. I meant I was willing to try and help via PM.

[Imbasel]

Hi all. Recently you've been seeing me post around lately concerning my girl woes and naturally I have another one. I am on staff in a residence building on a position similar to an RA. There is a girl in a different building who is an RA. We have had a class before together in college and have always made one another laughed, but we hadn't ever really hung out.

Now during training we're talking a lot more both in person and on chat. We usually talk during most breaks and when I log on facebook its either she has a message for me waiting or I send her one and she sends one back quickly. The other night we played manhunt and she was laughing at my comments that weren't even that funny and was being decently touchy although not excessively so.

I ended up getting invited to her dorm tonight to hang out at around 10:30. We ended up talking for a couple of hours and shared a lot to one another.

We also talked about her boyfriend as she brought it up. Evidently they were heading to that point, but never officially started dating. They had been on a few dates and made out, but never officially became a couple.

Now she found out a couple of days ago that he did not in fact break up with his previous girlfriend and was still techincally with her although he says he didn't do anything with her. Rather he was waiting to tell her they were broken up in person.

Obviously the girl I'm interested in was quite upset. Further adding to it he told her that he isn't ready for a relationship, but that he likes her and cares about her a lot. Since then she has ignored his texts. I was in the room when he texted a few times as I saw the name flash and she grabbed her phone and killed the message and kept saying go away and how she didn't want to talk to him.

Now during this she is being fairly touchy feely and we ended up having a very long hug that was very very close. Then a couple minutes after I leave we have the following conversation.


Hey thanks for coming to hang out with me tonight, we should definitely do this more often 12:51 AM
Me: Yeah we definitely should I had a lot of fun 12:57 AM
+Jher: I very much enjoyed your random bursts of british vernacular, lol 12:59 AM
Me: Thanks not many people do and it was great getting to know you better. 1:02 AM
+Her: Same....can i tell you a kind of awkward secret and promise it wont make things be slightly awkward when we hang out next? 1:03 AM
Me: Of course you can shoot. 1:05 AM
+Her: I totally had a crush on you last year when we were in public speaking together, lol 1:05 AM
Me: No that makes sense but it seems like we have something else in common. 1:07 AM
+Her: ? 1:08 AM
Me: Well I guess I have some secret tell you too if it won't make things too awkward 1:09 AM
+Her: No awkwardness, pinky promise 1:09 AM
Me: Well I have a crush on you now. 1:10 AM
+Her: Truthfully if i wasnt in relationship limo with blank i would reciprocate those feelings.... 1:12 AM
Me: Yeah I understand that I just had to be honest and I'm sorry about your situation and if this makes things. 1:14 AM
Me: Awkward 1:15 AM
+Her: No, it wont make things any more complicated, let's remain friends and if something shifts or something happens, we'll negotiate that when we get to that point 1:16 AM
Me: I can do that and yeah that makes sense 1:21 AM
+her: K well goodnight, i'll stop texting you now because you need to be up in 5 hours, good luck with that lol 1:22 AM
Me: Thanks and good night and see you in the morning 1:24 AM
+her: Yes for the hug so i can smell your manly man cologne haha 1:25 AM

The cologne for reference is that we had talked earlier about her smelling my cologne. It just seems weird for her to bring it up after all that was said and with us both saying night with her saying it.


To also add to the mix I'm obviously going to college with her while the guy is living 3.5 hours away and she is the only one with a car and doesn't have a bunch of money.

So what do you think? Do you think she is just confused and needs time? Do you think she is going to break up with him and just take a couple of days about it? Or do I not stand a chance in hell?

[The Succubus]

I would say back off for now. For one thing, I've been in her "ex's" shoes and hurts like hell when you find out that she's with someone else so quickly after breaking up. However, a more compelling reason is that things between you, her and him seem really mixed up at the moment. If you rush in with a move and find that she's not ready for a relationship it *will* damage your friendship with her and it sounds like you value it a lot because she's a nice person.

My advice - be there for her as a friend but be there *TRULY* for her as a friend. Let her make the first move when she's ready.

[Serpentine]

Sounds like you two have already decided on the sensible course of action: chill out, enjoy one another's company, let her sort out what's going on in her life, and see what happens.

Reluctance: that was so irrelevant it hurts. There was absolutely no reason to try to use her as such a pointless and baselessly insulting example.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Question for the terminally nice: Do you think Rabbit invests this much time and thought into Nice Guys after things end? How about while actively involved with them?

*cue "the more you know" jingle*

Having seen all the relevant info, actually having met Rabbit and her ex...

I'd say that this post is incredibly rude, and, more to the point, an ******* thing to post.

Way to go Reluctance. Way to go.

[Heliomance]

I'm not even sure what point it's trying to make. Is he supporting the "be a tool to get the girl" ethos?

[The Succubus]

Umm...there's probably a link I've missed somewhere, but could someone please explain the whole "nice guy/Nice Guy" thing to me?

I gather it's something along these lines: http://xkcd.com/513/