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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Well, it's not much of one, but the silver-lining here is that either your next plan will distract them from talking about you for this or it'll just blow over naturally soon enough.

    Kind of confused about the person wanting to quit school over that being brought to light though.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant Sheep View Post
    Because, with her dying breathe, she'd be texting "omg Troll just stabbed me with a knife lolol ikr? But seriously, call someone, I'm bleeding out and he's monologuing about how I ruined his life, I think he might cut my head off or somethinxecs"
    That's pure genius.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    If a couple's sexual life has gone south, as in, for years, while libidos still remain high, at least for one person...

    Would you say said relationship has finally run its course and reached the closing point where lover become like brothers, therefore it's time to go look for new thrills, or would you offer some other point of view? Also, how does the prospect of involuntary celibacy for one person involved sounds?

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by sharp41 View Post
    Would you say said relationship has finally run its course and reached the closing point where lover become like brothers, therefore it's time to go look for new thrills, or would you offer some other point of view?
    Well, I'd say that if therapy hasn't been tried it sounds like it might actually be past the point where it could lead to a positive outcome, but should still be tried anyway, because 12 gods know I'm no expert on couple's therapy or sexual counseling and the related and sundry things that could go here.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharp41 View Post
    Also, how does the prospect of involuntary celibacy for one person involved sounds?
    Unacceptable and vaguely off-putting. Though, honestly, the framing of this post just makes me think that the other person is dying or something and in a particularly nasty way.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by sharp41 View Post
    If a couple's sexual life has gone south, as in, for years, while libidos still remain high, at least for one person...

    Would you say said relationship has finally run its course and reached the closing point where lover become like brothers, therefore it's time to go look for new thrills, or would you offer some other point of view? Also, how does the prospect of involuntary celibacy for one person involved sounds?
    Polyamory.

    In many relationships, there are needs that go unfulfilled. Letting them simply remain unfulfilled breeds resentment, and the other fulfilling them when they don't want to does the same. If it's a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust, they should be able to explore the option of polyamory.

    The couple continues to be primary partners with one another, but they may get secondary partners that help fill in the gaps. Ideally, these secondary partners would have their own primaries, but that isn't always the case.

    It also may be a good idea for primary partners to have veto power over secondaries... If your primary & secondary can't get along, you're just likely to have problems anyway, and to have the level of trust you need for Poly to work, your primary needs to come first.

    If anyone's interested, PM me & I'll give you the title of a book that people in the poly community I know seem to swear by. I haven't read it... I just let my girl explain poly to me. Honestly, I think it's on the bookshelf behind me somewhere...

    Poly relationships can get pretty complex... One friend of mine, she tried to juggle 6 primary partners at once (failed to do so). Another is married to one guy and collared to another... Try to stay within what you can handle, as these are still full relationships and require just as much management each... More than that, since you need to manage your schedule to be sure to have enough quality time with each partner to sustain a good relationship. (Google Calendar is your friend.)

    A person can genuinely love multiple people.
    Last edited by Thajocoth; 2012-10-16 at 12:30 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #1476
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by sharp41 View Post
    If a couple's sexual life has gone south, as in, for years, while libidos still remain high, at least for one person...

    Would you say said relationship has finally run its course and reached the closing point where lover become like brothers, therefore it's time to go look for new thrills, or would you offer some other point of view? Also, how does the prospect of involuntary celibacy for one person involved sounds?
    the answer depends in large part on what sort of agreement you have, where you take your fullfilment from both as a couple and as individuals.
    there are plenty of people out there who accept that their partner seeks a quantum of solace elsewhere, because they can't or won't offer it to them (think libido-sexual health issues, or just plain lack of interest towards sex)..there are plenty of people out there who actually enjoy that possibility as a part of the couple's chemistry and sex life..but to delve further into that would make this post nsfw and probably violate a few forum rules.
    let's just say that a measure of adventurousness, bdsm and exhibitionism is involved..and a whole lot of openmindedness.
    then again..there are plenty of couples who grow old together and kind of leave sex on the background.. afaik, my grandparents (admittedly, one is 92, the other 85) still share a bed but have had separate single mattresses and bedlinen for as long as they've been married..whether that says anything about their past sex life, I don't know and I'm going to leave this now because to think of my granny this way is icky and ewwwy)
    if it IS however a cause of frustration and source of unhappiness..it should at least be debated, and a solution should be sought after... again, there are plenty of ways to re-ignite passion in those who have lost it along the way..and there are other solutions available..
    so it all comes down to how much effort you make, how much said effort costs you..whether it's all worth it, whether life wouldn't be better apart, and how you both feel about things.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by sharp41 View Post
    If a couple's sexual life has gone south, as in, for years, while libidos still remain high, at least for one person...
    Personal experience: yes. General rule: probably, but not necessarily. There isn't enough information given here for any of us to really make that determination (as if we could even with full disclosure).

    The couple definitely needs a serious discussion about this, why it's happening, what can be done to fix it, if there are any ways around it, and if it means the end. Therapy is a possibility if they're willing and able to try it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    Polyamory.

    In many relationships, there are needs that go unfulfilled. Letting them simply remain unfulfilled breeds resentment, and the other fulfilling them when they don't want to does the same. If it's a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust, they should be able to explore the option of polyamory.
    I'm going to take issue on 3 fronts here, not because I disagree with polyamory in general, but because of the way it's put forth.

    1) It won't fix the issue between the two people having the problem. Sex isn't only about fulfilling a physical need, but a need for emotional intimacy as well. One person getting their rocks off by displacing that to another person doesn't necessarily address the intimacy need.

    2) It's as likely to breed resentment as to kill it. Yes, people get jealous. Some people can make it work, but it isn't for everyone.

    3) I most strongly take umbrage with this particular statement: "If it's a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust, they should be able to explore the option of polyamory." It sets up a false dichotomy. According to the way it's worded, if you can't explore the option of polyamory, then your relationship is not good, open, honest, and trusting. Maybe it's just a bad choice of wording, but this is baloney.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    there's a wealth of options inbetween sex within a loving couple and poliamory which usually means that those feelings are expanded to all parties involved. sex is supposedly better between loving partners, but it doesn't have to be the only option...not if it can solve the issues within the couple without having to involve anybody else in anything but that aspect of the relationship.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by sharp41 View Post
    If a couple's sexual life has gone south, as in, for years, while libidos still remain high, at least for one person...

    Would you say said relationship has finally run its course and reached the closing point where lover become like brothers, therefore it's time to go look for new thrills, or would you offer some other point of view? Also, how does the prospect of involuntary celibacy for one person involved sounds?
    First and most important question. Is the other party making an effort to meet halfway? This doesn't necessarily mean tolerating sex even when one isn't in the mood (although it often does, not because it's a good strategy, but because it's one that easily comes to mind), but also willingness to experiment and share their own ideas. Someone who honestly tries but who is growing in a different direction is a completely different story than one who assumes they can stop putting in effort because they have you tied down.

    I will recommend therapy, not because I think it'll directly help, but because seeing how they act in the setting should help make it clear if they're making a good faith effort, or taking you for granted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    Polyamory. (&replies)
    It's noticeable that Thaj is talking about a straight couple that adds another girl to their dynamic. I wonder how enthused he'd be about him and his primary being able to each pursue their own side-projects. In practice, not theory. Somehow, other dudes always seem to be a no-no.

    Still, I'll cut him some slack that this is all shiny and new to him and that he hasn't seen how the reality often plays out. (Hint: Many former thirds way of referring to the role cannot be said on this forum. "Bangmaid" is the nicest I've heard.) Human nature is a very complex, sticky thing. Also, poly-evangelicals have made the lot of you look like loons.

  10. - Top - End - #1480
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    It's noticeable that Thaj is talking about a straight couple that adds another girl to their dynamic. I wonder how enthused he'd be about him and his primary being able to each pursue their own side-projects. In practice, not theory. Somehow, other dudes always seem to be a no-no.
    IIRC, earlier in the thread Thajocoth mentioned he's in a threeway relationship, which could be why he thought that could be a solution to the problem case. He might be unaware of how most people feel about polyamory in practice or how attempts often work out, but as there isn't more information given on the subjects involved in the problem case, it's as valid advice as any. Personally though, I'd take it with a major grain of salt and approach that matter carefully, if at all. In most cases, an attempt like that would end up in a relationship with the third person instead of successful polyamory.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2012-10-16 at 10:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    It's noticeable that Thaj is talking about a straight couple that adds another girl to their dynamic. I wonder how enthused he'd be about him and his primary being able to each pursue their own side-projects. In practice, not theory. Somehow, other dudes always seem to be a no-no.

    Still, I'll cut him some slack that this is all shiny and new to him and that he hasn't seen how the reality often plays out. (Hint: Many former thirds way of referring to the role cannot be said on this forum. "Bangmaid" is the nicest I've heard.) Human nature is a very complex, sticky thing. Also, poly-evangelicals have made the lot of you look like loons.
    You can address people without being horribly condescending and assuming, you know that right?
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I believe we will be needing a new thread presently.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    So recently at an event I met a girl who later told me she thinks I'm "doable". I have no idea how to respond. :B

    Mainly because she lives crazily far away, I think she's cute but haven't thought beyond that, and I'm in the process of getting to know this one girl I've previously spoken of.


    Also, title suggestions:
    Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Get A Hut! ("hut, 2, 3...")

    Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Titania, meet Brittany (reference to the Titanic and Britannic)

    Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Answer Unclear, Try Again
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2012-10-16 at 12:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    So recently at an event I met a girl who later told me she thinks I'm "doable". I have no idea how to respond. :B

    Mainly because she lives crazily far away, I think she's cute but haven't thought beyond that, and I'm in the process of getting to know this one girl I've previously spoken of.
    and the obvious answer is wrong..because...?
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by prufock View Post
    I'm going to take issue on 3 fronts here, not because I disagree with polyamory in general, but because of the way it's put forth.

    1) It won't fix the issue between the two people having the problem. Sex isn't only about fulfilling a physical need, but a need for emotional intimacy as well. One person getting their rocks off by displacing that to another person doesn't necessarily address the intimacy need.
    Here, I'm making the assumption that the couple does other activities that they find to be intimate. I assume a full, healthy relationship on all fronts, with one or both individuals having personal needs that are not fulfilled. If this is not the situation, then I don't recommend polyamory.

    Quote Originally Posted by prufock View Post
    2) It's as likely to breed resentment as to kill it. Yes, people get jealous. Some people can make it work, but it isn't for everyone.
    This is one reason why it's important to discuss it first, to be sure if it's even an option or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by prufock View Post
    3) I most strongly take umbrage with this particular statement: "If it's a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust, they should be able to explore the option of polyamory." It sets up a false dichotomy. According to the way it's worded, if you can't explore the option of polyamory, then your relationship is not good, open, honest, and trusting. Maybe it's just a bad choice of wording, but this is baloney.
    A -> B does not imply B -> A. Simple logic. I'm stating A is necessary for B to work... Not the reverse. Granted, spoken languages are not perfect for conveying concepts... Part of why I like to write code as much as I do. Code always means exactly what it looks like it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    there's a wealth of options inbetween sex within a loving couple and poliamory which usually means that those feelings are expanded to all parties involved. sex is supposedly better between loving partners, but it doesn't have to be the only option...not if it can solve the issues within the couple without having to involve anybody else in anything but that aspect of the relationship.
    I also assumed that I would not be the only one to provide possible options... There are likely other avenues they could try as well. I'm stating the one I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    It's noticeable that Thaj is talking about a straight couple that adds another girl to their dynamic. I wonder how enthused he'd be about him and his primary being able to each pursue their own side-projects. In practice, not theory. Somehow, other dudes always seem to be a no-no.
    False assumption. If my girl wanted to do things with another guy, I have no problem with the concept. As a matter of fact, since I couldn't be around her enough lately (her being away at school), I asked her about the possibility (so she might get her needs met). The other girl we're with has another man as her primary (though, that relationship looks to me like it's slowly failing...) I have no problem with this.

    Also, both examples I gave of more complex poly situations were women with multiple partners. One with two male primary partners (one being her husband & the other her Master) and the other with 6 primary partners, some of each gender. My examples already made it clear that that is not at all what I meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    Still, I'll cut him some slack that this is all shiny and new to him and that he hasn't seen how the reality often plays out. (Hint: Many former thirds way of referring to the role cannot be said on this forum. "Bangmaid" is the nicest I've heard.) Human nature is a very complex, sticky thing. Also, poly-evangelicals have made the lot of you look like loons.
    What I've seen of it has actually mostly been people in a poly community. Drawing a web of everyone's relationships in this community often winds up with a large amount of interconnection. Me, my girl, our other gf & her clown would be a small island off to the side of the web...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    IIRC, earlier in the thread Thajocoth mentioned he's in a threeway relationship, which could be why he thought that could be a solution to the problem case. He might be unaware of how most people feel about polyamory in practice or how attempts often work out, but as there isn't more information given on the subjects involved in the problem case, it's as valid advice as any. Personally though, I'd take it with a major grain of salt and approach that matter carefully, if at all. In most cases, an attempt like that would end up in a relationship with the third person instead of successful polyamory.
    Many things I do require being very careful, especially at first, with the physical body... With a slow warm up... If someone does try to introduce poly into their existing monogamous relationship, I recommend treating the situations & emotions involved in a similar way to that. Emotional pain can hurt a lot worse than the physical. Be VERY careful. "Hey I'm poly now. You like these girls I brought home?" is definitely not anywhere near acceptable.

    I would say... Making sure they understand what poly is would be first. Then mentioning the possibility. If they say "no", then it's for them to bring up again before continuing. Don't push. Given how much of a longshot that makes it... Well, they should take advice starting with whatever they feel is most likely to help their situation.

    And you're right... I did not expect this many to see it as a negative thing or to make so many assumptions.
    Last edited by Thajocoth; 2012-10-16 at 12:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Answer Unclear, Try Again
    Well, that one's the best of the three, I think.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    and the obvious answer is wrong..because...?
    Because I'm Captain Oblivious and I don't know what "obvious" answer you mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Because I'm Captain Oblivious and I don't know what "obvious" answer you mean?
    unless you're previously engaged..I'd say, give her what she wants.. the doing bit, I assume would be it
    provided you're both on the same page as to what it means and whether it carries consequences or not..you should be ok.

    then again..I haven't read your previous post and my reply was mostly in jest..but a bit of harmless fun shouldn't be refused when offered.. provided that's all it is and you are not, as I said, in something serious with someone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Answer Unclear, Try Again
    This one is the least convoluded. (though I liked the first one too)
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    I also like "Answer Unclear, Try Again"
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Because I'm Captain Oblivious and I don't know what "obvious" answer you mean?
    He meant sleep with her if you want to sleep with her.

    Still, I think it is a little more complex. "Doable" is a sort of backhanded complement. In the context I've heard it, it is used to describe someone who is just attractive enough to have a one-night stand if one is in the mood for it but not attractive enough to have a relationship. Words like "cute" or "attractive" or "hot" or "sexy" or "good-looking" are usually used for the latter.

    "Doable" is similiar to being called "nice." Normally, people are referred to as "nice" when there's nothing else good to describe them. Otherwise, people would use terms like "cool" or "funny" or "good-looking" or "fun-to-be-around." When someone tells me that a girl is "nice," it is almost a code-word that she is unattractive. When someone tells me that a guy is "nice," it means that he's probably not fun to be around--otherwise he'd be called a "good guy."

    Not that there's anything wrong with being nice. Lots of people are nice and people, in general, like nice people. You just don't want it to be your only positive quality.

    So, all her statement said was that she would be up for sleeping with you under the right circumstances. Of course, you have no idea what those circumstances are. Further, she did say something rather rude to you (instead of saying that you're cute, for example) so those "right circumstances" may never occur.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Considering the rest of the context, it's definitely beyond just "nice".

    I suppose you're right about it since nothing serious is yet going on, but since she lives several hours of travel away in another country it's not in it for a long time. She also asked if I was going to a convention this weekend she's attending, but I've got a prior engagement, so likely the earliest I'll be seeing her will be around Christmas or something.
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  23. - Top - End - #1493
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    He meant sleep with her if you want to sleep with her.

    Still, I think it is a little more complex. "Doable" is a sort of backhanded complement. In the context I've heard it, it is used to describe someone who is just attractive enough to have a one-night stand if one is in the mood for it but not attractive enough to have a relationship. Words like "cute" or "attractive" or "hot" or "sexy" or "good-looking" are usually used for the latter.

    "Doable" is similiar to being called "nice." Normally, people are referred to as "nice" when there's nothing else good to describe them. Otherwise, people would use terms like "cool" or "funny" or "good-looking" or "fun-to-be-around." When someone tells me that a girl is "nice," it is almost a code-word that she is unattractive. When someone tells me that a guy is "nice," it means that he's probably not fun to be around--otherwise he'd be called a "good guy."

    Not that there's anything wrong with being nice. Lots of people are nice and people, in general, like nice people. You just don't want it to be your only positive quality.

    So, all her statement said was that she would be up for sleeping with you under the right circumstances. Of course, you have no idea what those circumstances are. Further, she did say something rather rude to you (instead of saying that you're cute, for example) so those "right circumstances" may never occur.
    When I hear "doable", it's usually being used by juvenile males to mean, "Hey bro, I'd tap that," and has the same level of crass vulgarity in my mind.
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  24. - Top - End - #1494
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Silly girl, waiting until there's no opportunity to act upon it to tell you.
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  25. - Top - End - #1495
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    A -> B does not imply B -> A. Simple logic. I'm stating A is necessary for B to work... Not the reverse. Granted, spoken languages are not perfect for conveying concepts... Part of why I like to write code as much as I do. Code always means exactly what it looks like it does.
    However, A -> B does imply - and is implied by - (Not B) -> (Not A). It's called the contrapositive, and is a logical identity. Thus, saying that if a relationship is "a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust" then they should be able to explore polyamory is in fact logically identical to saying that any relationship in which polyamory is not an option is not "a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust" (hereafter abbreviated GR).

    What your original statement said is that a GR is a sufficient condition for polyamory. It is not. What you presumably intended to say, and what the section I've quoted supports, is that it's a necessary condition. This is eminently true, but less useful.

    As for code, it really doesn't always mean exactly what it looks like it does.
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2012-10-17 at 08:42 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #1496
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Considering the rest of the context, it's definitely beyond just "nice".

    I suppose you're right about it since nothing serious is yet going on, but since she lives several hours of travel away in another country it's not in it for a long time. She also asked if I was going to a convention this weekend she's attending, but I've got a prior engagement, so likely the earliest I'll be seeing her will be around Christmas or something.
    admittedly, when you live in Holland, everywhere is "another country" if it takes you a couple of hours to get there
    if I had let logistics get in the way of nookie, I'd have been without nookie for much longer than I have. (which is still way too long, but that's by the by)
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  27. - Top - End - #1497
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    A -> B does not imply B -> A. Simple logic. I'm stating A is necessary for B to work... Not the reverse.
    Someone got to it before I could respond. Basically, what Heliomance said. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this isn't what you meant to say (correct me if I'm wrong on that), but the way you worded it implies that you believe if a couple can't explore the poly option they aren't in a good relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance
    However, A -> B does imply - and is implied by - (Not B) -> (Not A). It's called the contrapositive, and is a logical identity. Thus, saying that if a relationship is "a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust" then they should be able to explore polyamory is in fact logically identical to saying that any relationship in which polyamory is not an option is not "a good relationship with open, honest communication and full trust"
    Last edited by prufock; 2012-10-17 at 08:32 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #1498
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Well, yes, I'd say that's a pretty fair statement. Note that he said to explore the possibility, not to immediately start banging 20 ladies.
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  29. - Top - End - #1499
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quote Originally Posted by Worira View Post
    Well, yes, I'd say that's a pretty fair statement. Note that he said to explore the possibility, not to immediately start banging 20 ladies.
    There nothing wrong with banging twenty ladies, if you're into that sorta thing.

    Oh, to every one who gave me advice recently, thank you! I'm sorry I didn't get back to you until nowish, it's been crazy over here. Mwanted to let you all know that I talked with her and we sorted things out. We've an agreement now to try each other's things and see if something sticks. It's going ok thus far. Thank you all for your help!

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

  30. - Top - End - #1500
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solut

    Quick question:

    "Hey, this might be a little awkward, but [friend] over there won't leave me alone until I'm officially shot down. So, would you like to join me for coffee some time?"

    Acceptable? Endearing? Pathetic?
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