Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Fiendlord

    If you gaze into the abyss
    the abyss also gazes into you.

    (Friedrich Nietzsche)









    Some study the world and all its beauty and terror. Others fiddle with the concepts of life and death. There are some who master the elements and even others who mess with minds. Mastering magic in its many forms requires a sharp intellect, force of personality and a brave heart. But only a few ever dare to venture into the dark realms of the lower outer planes, where demons wreath havoc and devils plot their sinister schemes. Understanding that in the endless planar wars, nothing can withstand their might, the Fiendlord is drawn to this source, and the power he commands is fueled by the vile souls that call the Abyss, the Nine Hells their home.

    A base class for 3.5 D&D, the Fiendlord is a master of demons and devils. Like a conjurer, he studies the outer planes, summoning and calling creatures or drawing from their energies. While the conjurer uses his intellect to thoroughly prepare complicated arcane texts, the Fiendlord relies on his force of personality and his magical talent.

    Abilities: Fiendlords rely on their force of personality and their charm to compel or seduce fiends. Charisma is your most important ability, because it determines your maximum spell level, your spells' DC and your bonus spells, as well as your ability to compel fiends. Constitution is important, as fighting fiends is a dangerous business, and you need a strong body to let you keep your concentration in critical situations. Intelligence is not to be neglected, however, because fiend's are often tricky and looking for loopholes in the agreements you make with them, and knowledge of the planes is important for you to identify the fiends you are dealing with and their powers.

    Races: Fiendlords can be found everywhere, as no race is immune against the alluring whispers of fiends. A large number of Fiendlords are Tieflings, as these seem to be drawn to their roots and have an easier time negotiating with their remote relatives. Among the power-hungry human societies, Fiendlords find a perfect place, and even in dwarven communities, Fiendlords have secretly worked to make their folk dig too deep. Elves rarely become Fiendlords, for the fair folk are naturally repulsed by the fiends' cruelty and terrifying appearance.

    Sex: Males and females equally often choose the dark profession. A female Fiendlord is known as a Fiendlady.

    Alignment: Negotiating pacts with evil outsiders is a dark business, and many Fiendlords are evil in alignment, and the longer a neutral Fiendlord draws his power from the lower planes, the more likely becomes he will eventually succumb to the lure of evil.

    Starting Gold: 6d4*10 gp (150 gp).

    Starting Age: As wizard (PH 109).


    Table 1: The Fiendlord
    {table=head] Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
    1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Compel Fiend
    2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Fiendskin +2
    3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Fiendish Heritage, Fiendish Focus
    4 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Advanced Learning
    5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Quick Summoning
    6 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Spell Penetration
    7 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Fiendskin +3, Summon Familiar
    8 | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Advanced Learning, Fiendish Presence
    9 | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | Fiendish Casting I
    10 | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Fiendish Resistance
    11 | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Fiendskin +4
    12 | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Advanced Learning
    13 | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Fiendish Legacy
    14 | +7/+2 | +4 | +4 | +9 | Greater Spell Penetration
    15 | +7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +9 | Fiendish Casting II, Fiendskin +5
    16 | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Advanced Learning
    17 | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 |
    18 | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Greater Fiendish Legacy
    19 | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 |
    20 | +10/+5 | +6 | +6 | +12 | Advanced Learning, Fiendform
    [/table]

    Table 2: Spellcasting
    {table=head] Level | 0 | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | 7th | 8th | 9th
    1 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | -
    2 | 6 | 4 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | -
    3 | 6 | 5 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | -
    4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - | -
    5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | - | - | - | - | - | - | -
    6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - | -
    7 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | - | - | - | - | - | -
    8 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | -
    9 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | - | - | - | - | -
    10 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | - | -
    11 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | - | - | - | -
    12 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | - | -
    13 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | - | - | -
    14 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | -
    15 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | - | -
    16 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | -
    17 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4 | -
    18 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3
    19 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 4
    20 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5
    [/table]


    Hit Die: 1d6
    Class Skills (4 + Int modifier): Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.
    Spellcasting: A Fiendlord casts arcane spells from the Fiendlord spell list. When he gains a new level that grants spell slots of a new spell level as per table 2, a Fiendlord knows all spells of that level on his list. Like a sorcerer, he can cast any spell he knows without preparation. A Fiendlordís spell list is the same as the spells he knows. Through the advanced learning class feature, a Fiendlord can add new spells to his repertoire.
    To cast a spell, a Fiendlord must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spellís level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Fiendlordís spell is 10 + the spellís level + his Charisma modifier. The number of spells per level a Fiendlord can cast per day are given in table 2. These are adjusted by high Charisma (see the SRD).
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Fiendlord is proficient with all simple weapons and two martial weapons of his choice. A Fiendlord is not proficient with armor or shields.

    Compel Fiend (Su): Three times per day, plus one time per Charisma modifier, the Fiendlord can try to gain control over an evil-aligned outsider. This is a supernatural ability that works much like the rebuke undead ability of a cleric.
    Fiendskin: A Fiendlordís body toughens, providing a +2 natural armor bonus to AC, which gradually increases (total of +3 at 7th, +4 at 11th and +5 at 15th level).
    Fiendish Heritage: A Fiendlord starts to attune with his inner fiend, gaining the feat (see Complete Mage, 43)
    Fiendish Focus: At third level, a Fiendlord makes a pact with the powers of the Nine Hells, the Abyss or the Gray Waste of Hades. Depending on the choice, the Fiendlord gains additional spells and abilities (see below).
    Advanced Learning: At each stage of advanced learning, the Fiendlord can add a new spell to his list of known spells. The spell must be a conjuration or transmutation spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list and of a level the Fiendlord already knows spells of.
    Rapid Summoning: From 5th level on, a Fiendlord can cast a summon fiend spell as a standard action.
    Spell Penetration: A Fiendlord gains a +2 bonus to caster level checks to overcome evil outsiderís spell resistance.
    Summon Familiar: At 7th level or later, a Fiendlord can gain a familiar, which is either an imp or quasit (to be expanded).
    Fiendish Presence: A Fiendlord further learns to use his inner fiend, gaining the feat (see Complete Mage, 43)
    Fiendish Casting: Learning from fiends, a Fiendlord copies their innate magical abilities. At 9th level, he can cast his known spells of 1st through 3rd level as Spell-Like Abilities. At 15th level, this also affects his known spells of 4th through 6th level. This does not change the number of spell slots the Fiendlord can cast per day. It only affects that the spell is now used as a spell-like ability. The Fiendlord can still opt to use traditional spellcasting. The decision is made at the start of casting.
    Fiendish Resistance: The Fiendlord gains the Fiendish template. His type changes to outsider (native).
    Fiendish Legacy: A Fiendlord unlocks his inner fiend, gaining the feat (see Complete Mage, 43).
    Greater Spell Penetration: A Fiendlord gains a +4 bonus to caster level checks to overcome an evil outsiderís spell resistance (this does not stack with Spell Penetration).
    Greater Fiendish Legacy: Gains the feat (see below)
    Fiendform: Eventually, a Fiendlord truly transforms into a fiend. His type changes to outsider, and he gains the Half-Fiend template, which replaces (does not stack with) the Fiendish template.

    Fiendlord Spell List

    O Level: acid splash, detect fiend1, detect magic, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance

    1st Level: (12-14) alarm, babau slime (sc), benign transposition (sc), comprehend languages, devilís tail (bovd), endure elements, mage armor, mount, nether trail (bovd), protection from evil (*), resist planar alignment (sc), summon fiend i

    2nd Level: (12-19) alter self, animalistic power (ph2), baleful transposition (sc), balor nimbus (sc), chain of eyes (sc), cloud of knives (ph2), demoncall (bovd), eagleís splendor, glitterdust, grazíztís long grasp (bovd), resist energy, rope trick, summon fiend ii

    3rd Level: (8-20) anticipate teleportation (sc), avoid planar effects (sc), demon dirge (sc), demon wings (bovd), devil blight (sc), devilís ego (bovd), devilís eye (bovd), dispel magic, evardís menacing tentacles (ph2), greater mage armor (sc), hamatula barbs (sc), haste, lesser telepathic bond (sc), magic circle against evil (*), protection from energy, spell vulnerability (sc), summon fiend iii, tongues, vipergout (sc, fiendish only)

    4th Level: (11-13) abyssal might (bovd), assay spell resistance (sc), attune form (sc), black tentacles, condemnation (ph2), dimensional anchor, dimension door, dismissal, distort summons (bovd), hellís power (bovd), lesser geas, lesser planar ally, polymorph, summon fiend iv, wall of chaos (sc,*),

    5th Level: (11-15) baleful polymorph, call dretch horde (bovd), call lemure horde (bovd), call nightmare (bovd), contact other plane, field of resistance (ph2), fiendform (sc), greater blink (sc), gutsnake (sc), lesser planar binding, planar tolerance (sc), summon fiend v, zone of respite (sc)

    6th Level: (8-9) alert bebilith (bovd), antimagic field, banishment, geas/quest, greater anticipate teleportation (sc), greater dispel magic, interplanar telepathic bond (sc), planar ally, planar binding, seal portal (sc), subvert planar essence (sc), summon fiend vi

    7th Level: (7-8) antimagic ray (sc), energy immunity (sc), fiendish clarity (bovd), mass animalistic power (ph2), planar bubble (sc), plane shift, stun ray (sc), summon fiend vii

    8th Level: (4-7) binding, dimensional lock, flensing (sc), greater planar ally, greater planar binding, greater plane shift (sc), maze, summon fiend viii, trap the soul

    9th Level: (5-6) abyssal army (sc), etherealness, hellish horde (sc), gate, shapechange, planar perinarch (sc), summon fiend ix

    The numbers indicate the spells beguiler or dread necromancer have at this level.
    bovd = Book of Vile Darkness
    ph2 = Players Handbook II
    sc = Spell Compendium

    (*) the Fiendlord can cast these in their evil, good, law, chaos versions.

    1 This spell functions as detect undead, but its effect instead applies to fiends.

    Fiendish Focus

    You gain a +2 bonus on Charisma checks or Charisma-based skill checks when dealing with your focused fiends. Also, when casting summon fiend to summon a focused fiend, you do so at +1 caster level.

    In addition, as you rise in level, you gain the following spells known:

    Table 3: Fiendish Focus Spells
    {table=head] Level | Abyss | 9 Hells | Hades
    3 |||
    5|||
    7|||
    9|||
    11|||
    13|||
    15|||
    17|||
    19|||
    [/table]


    Greater Fiendish Legacy (new feat)
    Prerequisite: Fiendish Legacy, character level 13th, non-good alignment
    Benefit: You can cast the following spells, as a spell-like ability, each once per day: greater teleport, insanity and power word stun. Your caster level equals your character level.


    Design Comments
    Looking for a full-career demonologist, I didnít find a good solution. I know the demonologist from Book of Vile Darkness, but I think its separate spellcasting is problematic.
    I like the spontaneous fixed list casters (beguiler, dread necromancer), so Iíve looked at creating something very similar with a fiendish conjurer theme.
    Iíve made it Charisma-based, to support the fluff that force of personality brings the fiends to their knees, and also because this works well with Binders.

    Design Questions
    1. Summon Fiend: Suggestions for the list? Is there a complete list of evil outsiders somewhere so I do not have to read through all my books again?
    2. Familiar: Other familiars worth taking in as options?
    3. Fiendish Casting: Is this too strong? Iíve looked at the Shadowcaster for comparison, and delayed it two levels plus removed the (Su) part, but it might still be too strong. Iíd like to keep it in, though, as I think it nicely fits the Fiendlordís transformation and learning.
    4. Balance-wise, especially compared to Dread Necromancer, is this class ok to you?


    Please help me on the Spell List
    • Not all adventures will be focused on fiends, so the Fiendlord needs to be an acceptable choice in a standard campaign, as well.
    • The number of spells are spread a bit uneven over the spell levels. Iíve noted the same with the Dread Necromancer, but still, Iím not too happy about itÖ what do you think?
    • Any spells that should go out?
    • I think it is missing some more general spells, especially a few direct damage dealers. Should I include the Orb spells? (i.e. Orb of Fire etc.)
    • What about utility spells?
    Last edited by Malachei; 2012-04-27 at 11:10 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    No clutch of Orcus?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    super dark33's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Israel
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Orcus? isnt he 4th edition?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    ...Orcus has been around since 1e.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    The Tygre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Serpent's Throne
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by super dark33 View Post
    Orcus? isnt he 4th edition?
    ...



    That said let's get to some meat:

    Compel Fiend - What do you mean by 'like' rebuke undead? How is it different if it is different at all? For convenience's sake, a basic review of the rebuke undead feature as the rebuke evil outsider feature would be a good idea here.

    Fiendskin - Why stop at fifteenth level? Why not not go all the way to 20 with a +6 bonus?

    Fiendish Heritage/Presence/Legacy - What feat? I know what you're getting at here, that the character gains those feats as bonus feats, but you need to clarify it.

    Rapid Summoning - This should probably read as a summon monster spell that can only summon evil creatures, but that's just what I would do.

    Summon Familiar - I'd go with Improved Familiar as a bonus feat. Or keep the quasit/imp exclusive, but give them some extra features not available to other class's familiars for an extra edge. Otherwise, you've just given a player a very limited range of familiar options, and variety is the key to unique and entertaining experiences.

    I really like the direction you're going with this class, and I can't wait to see more promising work from you!
    Last edited by The Tygre; 2012-04-16 at 10:24 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Avatars by kpenguin.

    My Characters
    According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
    "And he said, 'Dance before us, atrocious nothing.'"
    "And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Ladorak's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    From Fiend Folio (Thanks to Mystery Gilgamesh)
    Summon Monster List:
    1:
    2: Kaorti pg 108-109 FF, Varoot pg 130 FF
    3: Bacchae pg 19 FF,
    4: Aoa Droplet pg 15-16 FF, Skulvyn pg 54 FF, Bloodbag Imp pg 98-99 FF, Euphoric Imp pg 99-100 FF, Filth Imp pg 100 FF, Kalareem pg 128-129 FF, Mud Slaad pg 157-158 FF, Skerloth ph 197-198 FF
    5:
    6: Winged Warrior pg 78-79 FF, Sillits pg 129-130 FF
    7: Movanic Deva pg 56-57 FF, Armadon pg 76-77 FF, Ferrumach pg 143 FF, Piscoloth pg 196-197 FF,
    8: Maelephant pg 120-121 FF
    9: Farastu pg 42-43 FF, Wastrilith page 54-55 FF, Monadic Deva pg 56 FF, Observer pg 77-78 FF, Cuprilach pg 142 FF

    This is all I could find
    Spoiler
    Show
    The Human Spirit also by KP. The Raynnverse lives!

    Vagrant and Seal by Smuchmuch

    Vagrant by Darth Raynn

    Sentient #6 Avatar by kpenguin. Clearly the best picture of a M&M character named after a Nevermore song there has ever been.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    1450 Westside Hwy Kelso,
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Orcus may be 3rd edition. Don't know about 4th.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Interesting class. My initial ponderings:

    -Isn't Chain of Eyes a 2nd level spell?
    -Fiendish Casting might be a bit strong. Casting infinite Greater Dispel Magics and Baleful Polymorphs is extreme, no?
    -What are Fiendish Heritage/Presence/Legacy? Are they modifications of the Draconic feats?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Phaederkiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    okay, here is my list of unpopular questions:

    (spells is the only thing really interesting, the rest goes a lot against the original concept, i am afraid...)

    fiendish casting
    Spoiler
    Show

    what does fiendish casting excactly do? infinite usages? dragon-style d4 rounds to cast again? limited number of uses per day?

    what point is in giving a full caster another way of casting his own spells? I mean, do you do this to make him never worry about his spells per day again?
    all it does accomplish is that you will never see this guy without buffs. I see a player who does cast cloud of knifes every 8 rounds out of combat "just in case", not to speak of eagles splendor and a cubic mile o' mounts.

    It would be good if you could state your design goal for this ability.

    another problem is that he gets the spells in big batches. which means: there are some VERY good levels, and some less good. Which means, your class has breakpoints at which it is very much more profitable to leave the class.




    fiendskin
    Spoiler
    Show

    I do not know why fiendskin. Yes, it is a bonus which is a nice to have, but it does not feel sexy for me. Nor that flavourful. I mean, it probably stacks with many of the buffs you put into the spelllist.

    But AC is not of that big importance for a non-frontliner. Enemies tend to hit you anyway, and if your Ac is 19 or 22 does matter very little indeed.

    Damage reduction (like the warlock has) or a "fiendish grace" (alas, with bonus / level restriction probably needed) would be more interesting.

    Or you could give him bonus lifepoints in the (+2 at first +3 at 7th, +4 at 11th and +5 at 15th level) way per level. A caster with huge HP could be very interesting.

    these abilities would probably be too powerful on a full caster.



    Spells:
    Spoiler
    Show


    I really like your spell selection; even if it is a little bit unbalanced,it is very flavourful.

    The only spell i really dislike is glitterdust. I know it is a good spell. It is probably a better spell than many other spells you gave on that level. But it is the beguilers signature weapon, and every wizard uses it anyway.

    I would rather like if your list had another unconventional option here, instead of a staple like that. Perhaps some heavy touch spells to put on the long grasp (great spell!)


    the others staples i would remove:

    i would skip mount and put one of my all time favs in: Hoard Gullet. fits the flavour and has BIG utility.

    Haste, put in shrink item. much rarer spell, incredible utility.

    Polymorph: DM is not going to let you use that anyway, i fear - I mean it is a great and flavorful spell, but it is ten kinds of broken. I do not Know what to put in instead, but...


  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Thank you all for your feedback!

    Quote Originally Posted by LordofBones View Post
    No clutch of Orcus?
    Good idea. It is Necromancy, and I tried to avoid these, mostly, as this is the Dread Necromancer's main province, and a Fiend-focused caster already needs a lot of Conjuration and Transmutation. But I'll consider taking it in.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre
    Compel Fiend - What do you mean by 'like' rebuke undead? How is it different if it is different at all? For convenience's sake, a basic review of the rebuke undead feature as the rebuke evil outsider feature would be a good idea here
    I should explain that in more detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre
    Fiendskin - Why stop at fifteenth level? Why not not go all the way to 20 with a +6 bonus?
    I thought the 20th level capstone is pretty strong and +5 is a fine bonus, but if others agree it is balanced, why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre
    Fiendish Heritage/Presence/Legacy - What feat? I know what you're getting at here, that the character gains those feats as bonus feats, but you need to clarify it.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre
    Rapid Summoning - This should probably read as a summon monster spell that can only summon evil creatures, but that's just what I would do.
    I'm not sure I understand your point here.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre
    Summon Familiar - I'd go with Improved Familiar as a bonus feat. Or keep the quasit/imp exclusive, but give them some extra features not available to other class's familiars for an extra edge. Otherwise, you've just given a player a very limited range of familiar options, and variety is the key to unique and entertaining experiences.
    Thanks. Apart from imp and quasit, what are other familiars with a fiendish flavor? Simply applying the fiendish template to standard familiars will probably result in options that are not as good as imp or quasit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psydon
    -Isn't Chain of Eyes a 2nd level spell?
    -Fiendish Casting might be a bit strong. Casting infinite Greater Dispel Magics and Baleful Polymorphs is extreme, no?
    -What are Fiendish Heritage/Presence/Legacy? Are they modifications of the Draconic feats?
    Fiendish casting does not grant additional uses, it just changes the spell into an SLA, which has a variety of benefits on its own. I'll make that more clear in the text.

    The Fiendish feats are from Complete Mage.

    Yes, Chain of Eyes should be on the 2nd level list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaederkiel
    there are some VERY good levels, and some less good.
    Yes, that's an issue. I see that with Dread Necromancer and Beguiler as well, though. I guess it is not that easy to avoid, but one of the things I'm trying to do is to have the spell list support a more general play style, as well (that's why staples, such as glitterdust and haste are in).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaederkiel
    I do not know why fiendskin.
    Other than the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer, the Fiendlord does not get Armor Proficiency, and have a harder time to achieve an acceptable AC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaederkiel
    The only spell i really dislike is glitterdust. I know it is a good spell. It is probably a better spell than many other spells you gave on that level. But it is the beguilers signature weapon, and every wizard uses it anyway. I would rather like if your list had another unconventional option here, instead of a staple like that. Perhaps some heavy touch spells to put on the long grasp (great spell!)
    i would skip mount and put one of my all time favs in: Hoard Gullet. fits the flavour and has BIG utility.Haste, put in shrink item. much rarer spell, incredible utility. Polymorph: DM is not going to let you use that anyway
    I see your point. I tried to not overdo the specialization, i.e. avoid too much focus on the spell list, because I feared no player would pick a caster with such a narrow list. My reasoning was that the Fiendlord should not only serve as villain NPC, but also as a playable class in a standard campaign.

    Mount is in because it is Conjuration, and it supports his mobility, for which the class does not offer much otherwise.
    Haste is in so he can provide the basics of party support if there is no other arcane caster.
    Glitterdust is in to give him a non-fiendish attack and utility spell at lower levels (it can be fiendishly reflavored, of course).
    Polymorph is in because it fits the Fiendlord's theme so well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladorak
    From Fiend Folio (Thanks to Mystery Gilgamesh)
    Summon Monster List:
    This covers FF, which is good. Thank you for this.

    Everybody:

    If you have, in addition to FF a list of fiendish monsters per challenge rating or to add for summon monster somewhere, I'd be grateful for the input.

    I'm still looking for creatures similar in power to imp or quasit with a fiendish feel, which could be good familiars.

    Spell list: I'm still not sure whether the spell list is too focused on the Fiendlord's specialty. This might be no problem for a villain, but a Fiendlord PC would need to have general adventuring capabilities, as well. Potentially, in some situations, he could be the only arcane caster.

    Any input gladly appreciated.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Phaederkiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    hmm. I see your point about the Armor proficency. You gave him mage armor, though, which he is going to use instead of normal armor anyway.

    I just think, for something he gets so often, it is a little boring.

    hm. many of his problems could be fixed by items.

    what about the following ability:

    Fiendish luck.
    A Fiendlord is by pact entiteled to literally otherworldly luck and riches. at first lvl, his Wealth by lvl is 20 % over the norm, this grows to 30% at 7th, 40% at 11th, 50% at 7th and 60% at 20th lvl.


    then you can throw out mount...he could buy a horse...!


    ____
    how do you like hoard gullet?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    While I like the sound of Fiendish Luck, I'd indeed want luck, and not riches. I'll give this more thought.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnorman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Check out "Practical Demonkeeping" in my signature. I have an organized list of every evil outsider organized by CR and Summon Monster level.

    This would be my recommendation for a list, attempting to limit myself to Monster Manuals and Fiendish Codices for the most part:

    Summon Demon I: Any fiendish creature from the core list (assumed to be on all others as well)

    Summon Demon II: Abyssal Skulker (MMII), Lemure (FCII), Mane (FCI)

    Summon Demon III: Abyssal Maw (MMII), Dretch, Hell Hound, Nashrou (MMIV), Nupperibo (FCII), Vargouille

    Summon Demon IV: Abishai, white (FCI), Advespa (MMII), Carnage Demon (MMV), Gadacro (MMIV), Howler, Legion Devil (FCII), Rutterkin (FCI), Voor (MMIV)

    Summon Demon V: Abishai, black (FCI), Achaierai, Bar-lgura (FCI), Bearded Devil, Canoloth (MMIV), Jovoc (MMII), Maurezhi (FF), Nabassu, juvenile (FCI), Narzugon (FCII), Nightmare, juvenile (PH), Shadow Mastiff

    Summon Demon VI: Abisahi, green (FCII), Amnizu (FCII), Babau, Chain Devil, Corruptor of Fate (FCII), Gulthir (MMV), Kocrachon (BoVD), Mezzoloth (MMIII), Pain Devil (FCII), Spiked Devil (FCII)

    Summon Demon VII: Abishai, blue (FCII), Armanite (FCI), Arrow Demon (MMIII), Bone Devil, Erinyes, Nightmare, Shadow Demon (BoVD), Succubus, Yochlol (FCI)

    Summon Demon VIII: Abishai, red (FCII), Abyssal Drake (Draconomicon), Alkilith (FF), Bulezau (FCI), Chasme (FCI), Hellcat, Marraenoloth (MMII), Nycaloth (MMIII), Orthon (FCII), Solamith (MMV), Stitched Devil (MMV), Vrock, Yagnoloth (MMII), Zovvut (MMII)

    Summon Demon IX: Adaru (MMV), Assassin Devil (FCII), Barbed Devil, Bebilith, Glabrezu, Hezrou, Ice Devil, Jarilith (MMII), Lillitu (FCI), Night Hag, Pleasure Devil (FCII), Retriever

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Thank you, Gnorman. This is valuable input!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    What about the teleport line of spells? That's classic fiend material, isn't it?
    (in addition to fiendish legacy)

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Phaederkiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    that's right, you could put in benevolent and baleful transposition. These are really fun spells, which help spread your focus, strengthen the team and tie in very well with any kind of summoner.

    I mean, yes , you'd give him that weird combo of anticipate teleportation / transposition right there in his spelllist (in this case, you would probably have to write a little erata /explaining file on the spells interaction; If I recall right, RAW is not definite on the matter), but it is an interesting direction.

    Do you think there is any way to fit Shrink Item in there? For me, it is one of the spells i want from a caster, and a big reason not to play a class if it has no acess to it...
    Unfortunately, your third lvl spot is already burstingly full. On Lvl 2, the spell is probably much too powerful, but perhaps it could fit in forth.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnorman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Since I don't see a table, are we to assume that spells per day progression is identical to the sorcerer? Also, Advanced Learning is not described in the text of the class - what kinds of spells is he allowed to choose with it? Can he choose a spell of any level? Needs explanation.

    Also, Summon Demon should be renamed to Summon Fiend.

    As to expanding the spell list, this would be my recommendation: at a certain level (probably between 1 and 3), you choose a certain heritage or a type of fiend to focus on. I'm thinking the big three off hand, and depending on which you choose, you get certain spells added to your list. Devils add manipulative spells like Charm Person, possibly Invisibility, and a few fire spells. Yugoloths add a few necromantic and darkness-themed spells. Demons add straight-up destructive spells and combat buffs. This adds a unique bit of utility and theme-appropriate-ness to each type of Fiendlord while still preventing the class from becoming over-the-top.

    Baatorian Fiendlord
    1: Charm Person, Disguise Self
    2: Invisibility, Scorching Ray
    3: Fireball, Suggestion
    4: Charm Monster, Wall of Fire
    5: Dominate Person, Prying Eyes
    6: Mislead, Mass Suggestion
    7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Project Image
    8: Demand, Incendiary Cloud
    9: Dominate Monster, Meteor Swarm

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    As to expanding the spell list, this would be my recommendation: at a certain level (probably between 1 and 3), you choose a certain heritage or a type of fiend to focus on.
    Thank you for the idea. I've been thinking about something similar, but ended up overdoing it designing three paths. Perhaps focusing on spells is a better way of achieving fiend specialization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashalar
    What about the teleport line of spells? That's classic fiend material, isn't it?
    (in addition to fiendish legacy)
    Because of fiendish legacy and greater fiendish legacy, I had left that off the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaederkiel
    you could put in benevolent and baleful transposition.
    Good point, but as many of the creatures a Fiendlord calls will be able to teleport by themselves, I wondered whether this would really fit.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Analysis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Definitely add cantrips. Every other full caster but the DN gets that (warmage included), and it seems very strange to have someone who can cast Gate but not Detect Magic.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Analysis View Post
    Definitely add cantrips. Every other full caster but the DN gets that (warmage included), and it seems very strange to have someone who can cast Gate but not Detect Magic.
    Thank you. Of course, the Fiendlord would have gotten Detect Magic and Read Magic as 1st level spells, but I've decided to give him cantrips.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Because of fiendish legacy and greater fiendish legacy, I had left that off the list.
    Yeah, I saw fiendish legacy - but you get that only at level 13 which is 3 levels after you usually get teleport. Also, there might be characters who multi-class and then don't get fiendish legacy at all. Definitely not a must-have, though.

    Did you get around to clarifying advanced learning? At a first glance I didn't see a clarification what spells are allowed.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malachei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fiendlord (Base Class) (WIP, PEACH)

    Thank you. I'm a little late adding the changes.

    I've added Advanced Learning.

    On the Teleport: Somehow I dislike the overlap. They have dimension door and plane shift, and a Fiendlord who would like to have (greater) teleport in addition to gaining this as part of the (greater) fiendish heritage could also use advanced learning to pick it up. It also serves the purpose of not giving them all the cherries ;)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •