Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent

    Spoiler
    Show
    This class started as a simple gestalt of the religious adept and the warrior NPC classes I used in a campaign as a LBEG. It made for such an interesting encounter that I've fleshed it out and consolidated as a single class, and have been using it occasionally for NPCs. Here is the fruit of that work. It is still an obvious sum of the original classes, but with enough options to stand on its own two feet, I should think. I decided to present it here for my players' convenience and, while I am at it, ask for your critiques! What do you think of it? Should I tweak it some more, add any more options or class features? Any input is appreciated! I present to you the...


    Shrine Warrior

    "Begone, foul creatures! You will not desecrate this holy place!"

    —Elnora, a shrine warrior, to a group of goblin raiders


    Religions and their followers are as diverse as the peoples of the world. In any one faith, clerics number far less than the total number of acolytes, and not every cult has the resources or disposition to train holy (or unholy) warriors. Some wayward shrines and remote temples would be completely deserted if not for the work of adepts and other devout individuals.

    Shrine warriors also care for these sacred sites. Combatants touched by the divine, though not in the same way as a paladin or a cleric, their powers are more primitive in nature, but what they lack in finesse and raw power they make up for in versatility. Sometimes hailing from civilized but isolated communities, cut off from major centers of worship, they can also be found in tribal societies and specially amid belligerent bestial humanoid species, such as orcs and hobgoblins. Generally caring for their faith and the faithful, shrine warriors can be found furthering the goals of their creed or guarding temples and shrines. They very rarely offer counseling and spiritual guidance the way a cleric does.

    A shrine warrior might not be a resilient combatant, but she wields a weapon with the same proficiency as any trained warrior. Furthermore, she has access to far less spells than other casters, but those she does have at her disposal are very diverse. As such, a shrine warrior is always an asset to the party, both inside and outside of combat.


    Game Rule Information

    Shrine warriors have the following game statistics.

    Alignment: Any.

    Hit Die: d8.


    Class Skills

    The shrine warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier)x4.

    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.


    Class Features

    {table=head]
    Table: The Shrine Warrior


    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|
    Fort Save
    |
    Ref Save
    |
    Will Save
    |Special

    1st|+1|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat, Minion

    2nd|+2|
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |

    3rd|+3|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |

    4th|+4|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |

    5th|+5|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat

    6th|+6/+1|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |

    7th|+7/+2|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |

    8th|+8/+3|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |

    9th|+9/+4|
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |

    10th|+10/+5|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Bonus Feat

    11th|+11/+6/+1|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |

    12th|+12/+7/+2|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |

    13th|+13/+8/+3|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |

    14th|+14/+9/+4|
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |

    15th|+15/+10/+5|
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Bonus Feat

    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |

    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |

    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Bonus Feat

    [/table][/table]

    {table=head]
    Table: Shrine Warrior's Spells per Day


    {table=head]Level|....0....|
    ...1st...
    |
    ...2nd...
    |
    ...3rd...
    |
    ...4th...
    |
    ...5th...


    1st|
    3
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |
    |

    2nd|
    3
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |
    |

    3rd|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    |
    |
    |

    4th|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1
    |
    |
    |

    5th|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |

    6th|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |

    7th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    |
    |

    8th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1
    |
    |

    9th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |

    10th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |

    11th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    |

    12th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1
    |

    13th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |

    14th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |

    15th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |

    16th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1

    17th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1

    18th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1

    19th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1

    20th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    [/table] [/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shrine warriors are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).


    Spells: A shrine warrior casts divine spells which are drawn from the shrine warrior spell list (see below). Like a cleric, a shrine warrior must choose and prepare her spells in advance. Unlike a cleric, a shrine warrior cannot spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells.

    To prepare or cast a spell, a shrine warrior must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a shrine warrior’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the shrine warrior’s Wisdom modifier.

    Like other spellcasters, a shrine warrior can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Shrine Warrior's Spells per Day. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score. A shrine warrior also gets one domain spell of each spell level she can cast, starting at 1st level. When a shrine warrior prepares a spell in a domain spell slot, it must come from her domain (see Domain and Domain Spells, below). Unlike a cleric, the shrine warrior may also prepare her domain spells in regular spell slots. When Table: Shrine Warrior's Spells per Day indicates that the shrine warrior gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Wisdom score for that spell level. Furthermore, she gains a domain spell slot (represented by the “+1”) of that level only if she is entitled to bonus spells of that level.

    Shrine warriors, unlike wizards, do not acquire their spells from books or scrolls, nor do they prepare them through study. Instead, they meditate or pray for their spells, receiving them as divine inspiration or through their own strength of faith. Each shrine warrior must choose a time each day at which she must spend an hour in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain her daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a shrine warrior can prepare spells.

    Each shrine warrior has a particular holy symbol (as a divine focus) depending on the shrine warrior’s magical tradition.


    Domain and Domain Spells: The shrine warrior can select a single cleric domain. The domain gives the shrine warrior access to a domain spell at each spell level she can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. A shrine warrior prepares those spells in her domain spell slots, but can also prepare them in place of her usual spells.

    While most shrine warriors follow one of the major religions, even shrine warriors who do not worship a specific deity get to select a domain.

    If a cleric takes a level in the shrine warrior class, he does not get to select a new domain, but instead choses one of his current domains as the one he will use for his new class. Likewise, a shrine warrior who takes cleric levels must use her shrine warrior domain as one of her two cleric domains.


    Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a shrine warrior gets a bonus combat-oriented feat or item creation feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The shrine warrior gains an additional bonus feat at 5th level and every five shrine warrior levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats or as item creation feats. A shrine warrior must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score, base attack bonus, and caster level minimums.

    These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The shrine warrior is not limited to the categories of fighter bonus feats or item creation feats when choosing these feats.


    Minion: A shrine warrior may begin play with the service of a loyal minion to help her with her cause. A Medium character may select any of the following: badger, cat, dire rat, dog, donkey, hawk, lizard, monkey, owl, pony, rat, raven, or weasel. A Small character may not select the badger, but otherwise has access to the same list, with the added options of bat and toad. A minion is a magical beast that resembles an animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.

    The shrine warrior gains a minion by performing a ritual requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of meditation or prayer. The minion is an unusual creature, presented to the shrine warrior by her deity or whatever power she holds dear, and appears right next to the character at the end of the ritual.

    Should the shrine warrior’s minion die, she may not pray for another one for thirty days or until she gains a shrine warrior level, whichever comes first. During this thirty-day period, the shrine warrior takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls. A slain minion can be returned from the dead just as a character can, however, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs. If is brought back to life, the shrine warriors stop suffering from the aforementioned penalty.

    A more experienced shrine warrior may select other, stronger animals. See below for details.


    Shrine Warrior Spell List

    Shrine warriors choose their spells from the following list.

    0 Level: create water, cure minor wounds, detect magic, ghost sound, guidance, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic, touch of fatigue.

    1st Level: bless, burning hands, cause fear, command, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, endure elements, obscuring mist, protection from chaos, protection from evil, protection from good, protection from law, sleep.

    2nd Level: aid, animal trance, bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, cure moderate wounds, darkness, delay poison, invisibility, mirror image, resist energy, scorching ray, see invisibility, web.

    3rd Level: air walk, continual flame, cure serious wounds, daylight, deeper darkness, lightning bolt, neutralize poison, ray of exhaustion, remove curse, remove disease, speak with dead, tongues, water breathing.

    4th Level: cure critical wounds, minor creation, polymorph, restoration, stoneskin, wall of fire.

    5th Level: baleful polymorph, break enchantment, commune, heal, major creation, raise dead, true seeing, wall of stone.


    Minions

    The minion is superior to a normal creature of its kind and has special powers, as described below. A shrine warrior’s minion is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it retains an animal’s HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats).

    {table=head]{colsp=6}Table: The Minion
    Master Class Level | Bonus HD | Natural Armor Adj.| Str Adj.| Int| Special
    1st-4th | +0 | +2 | +0 | 6 | Empathic link, evasion, share spells, share saving throws
    5th-8th | +2 | +4 | +1 | 7 | Speak with master
    9th-12th | +4 | +6 | +2 | 8 | Speak with animals of its kind
    13th-16th | +6 | +8 | +3 | 9 | Improved evasion
    17th-20th | +8 | +10 | +4 | 10 | Spell resistance
    [/table]

    Minion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the minion’s kind, but make changes to take into account the attributes and characteristics summarized on the table and described above.

    Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the minion’s base attack and base save bonuses. A minion’s base attack bonus is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the minion’s HD. A minion's good saves are determined by the base creature (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). The minion gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.

    Natural Armor Adj.: The number on the table is an improvement to the minion’s existing natural armor bonus.

    Str Adj.: Add this figure to the minion’s Strength score.

    Int: The minion’s Intelligence score.

    Empathic Link (Su): The shrine warrior has an empathic link with her minion out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The shrine warrior cannot see through the minion’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Note that even intelligent minions see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.

    Because of this empathic link, the shrine warrior has the same connection to an item or place that her minion does, just as with a master and his familiar (see Familiars).

    Evasion (Ex): If a minion is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, it takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw.

    Share Spells: At the shrine warrior’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her minion. The minion must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the minion if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the minion again even if it returns to the shrine warrior before the duration expires. Additionally, the shrine warrior may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her minion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A shrine warrior and her minion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the minion’s type (magical beast).

    Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the minion uses its own base save bonus or the shrine warrior’s, whichever is higher. The minion applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any other bonuses on saves that the master might have.

    Speak with Master (Ex): If the master is 5th level or higher, a minion and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.

    Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex): If the master is 7th level or higher, a minion can communicate with animals of approximately the same kind as itself (including dire varieties): bats with bats, rats with rodents, cats with felines, hawks and owls and ravens with birds, lizards and snakes with reptiles, toads with amphibians, weasels with similar creatures (weasels, minks, polecats, ermines, skunks, wolverines, and badgers). Such communication is limited by the intelligence of the conversing creatures.

    Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.

    Spell Resistance (Ex): A minion’s spell resistance equals its master’s shrine warrior level + 5. To affect the mount with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the minion’s spell resistance.



    Alternative Class Features

    Altar Server

    Some shrine warriors believe it is easier to defend her faith by spreading it. These charismatic individuals lead by example, and sometimes can attract like-minded beings to aid in their cause, be they priestly duties, preaching, or fighting enemies of their faith.

    Class: Shrine warrior.

    Level: 1st.

    Special Requirements: Cha 13.

    Replaces: You don't gain a minion at 1st level.

    Benefit: You gain Leadership at 1st level as a bonus feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

    You may only recruit a cohort of the same faith as you and of the same alignment as your deity. At 6th level, these restrictions are lifted. You receive a +1 to your leadership score any time you would recruit a cohort of the same faith as you, and another +1 any time you would recruit a cohort of the same aligment as your deity.

    Furthermore, at 1st level your cohort must have a CR of 1/3, at most. At 2nd level, that limit is increased to 1/2. At 3rd and later levels, use the regular Leadership rules (that is, the cohort must be two or more levels lower than the shrine warrior).


    Divine Adept[1]

    There are great differences between a cleric's and a shrine warrior's training. If she dedicates some time to studying the cleric's path, however, a shrine warrior can close that distance. By giving up their connection to their deities' domains, these shrine warriors gain access to spells normally beyond their abilities.

    This class feature can be chosen only once.

    Class: Shrine warrior.

    Level: 1st.

    Special Requirement: Knowledge (religion) 1 rank.

    Replaces: You don't gain a domain (including spells and granted power) at 1st level.

    Benefit: You can add one 0-level and one 1st-level cleric spells to your shrine warrior spell list.

    Each time you gain the ability to cast a new level of shrine warrior spells, you can add a single cleric spell of the same level to your shrine warrior spell list.


    Shrine Magician[1]

    Deities influence the world through the divine spells they grant their worshipers. Some shrine warriors, however, choose to explore magical powers beyond those commonly provided by her adoration. By giving up some of their divine power, these shrine warriors gain access to spells normally beyond their abilities.

    This class feature can be chosen only once.

    Class: Shrine warrior.

    Level: 1st.

    Special Requirement: Knowledge (arcana) 1 rank.

    Replaces: You don't gain a domain (including spells and granted power) at 1st level.

    Benefit: You can add one 0-level and one 1st-level abjuration, divination, or necromancy wizard spells to your shrine warrior spell list.

    Each time you gain the ability to cast a new level of shrine warrior spells, you can add a single wizard spell of the same level from one of those schools to your shrine warrior spell list.


    Vile Faith

    Just like clerics, some shrine warriors worship evil things or concepts. These depraved zealots wield magics appropriate to their faith.

    Class: Shrine warrior.

    Level: 1st.

    Special Requirement: Non-good alignment.

    Replaces: Remove the following spells from the shrine warrior spell list:

    0 Level: cure minor wounds.

    1st Level: bless, cure light wounds.

    2nd Level: aid, cure moderate wounds, delay poison.

    3rd Level: cure serious wounds, neutralize poison, remove curse, remove disease, speak with dead.

    4th Level: cure critical wounds.

    5th Level: heal, raise dead.
    Benefit: Add the following spells to the shrine warrior spell list:

    0 Level: inflict minor wounds.

    1st Level: bane, inflict light wounds.

    2nd Level: death knell, hold person, inflict moderate wounds.

    3rd Level: animate dead, bestow curse, contagion, inflict serious wounds, poison.

    4th Level: inflict critical wounds.

    5th Level: harm, slay living.
    Devout Warrior

    Shrine warriors don't have the same connection to their gods as clerics do. Some, however, are dedicated to their cause with such fervor that they can occasionally call on different aspects of their patron deity.

    This class feature can be chosen only once.

    Class: Shrine warrior.

    Level: 5th.

    Special Requirements: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, must have a domain.

    Replaces: You don't gain a bonus feat at 5th level.

    Benefit: You can cast Substitute Domain[2] as a spell-like ability once per week. This ability's caster level is one-half the character's shrine warrior level.

    [1] Based on the Divine Magician Alternative Class Feature for clerics. Williams, Skip; Williams, Penny; Marmell, Ari; Liquette, Kolja Raven (2006), Complete Mage, Wizards of the Coast. Pg. 33.
    [2] Stark, Ed; Thomasson, Chris; Louve, Rhiannon; Marmell, Ari; Astleford, Gary (2007), Complete Champion, Wizards of the Coast. Pg. 128.




    Alternative Minions

    The creatures available as minions are defined by size category and Challenge Rating. A shrine warrior may only choose a minion from one or two size categories smaller to one larger than himself, including his own size category.

    A minion one or two size categories smaller than his master should have a Challenge Rating no more than 1 less than the master's shrine warrior level. A minion of the same size category as his master should have a Challenge Rating no more than 2 less than the master's shrine warrior level. A minion one size category larger than his master should have a Challenge Rating no more than 3 less than the master's shrine warrior level. If the minion can fly, increase the Challenge Rating difference by 1.

    A creature's Challenge Rating can never be 0 or lower. If at lower levels the minion's maximum allowed Challenge Rating would be lower than 1, that doesn't mean a minion can't be chosen. Instead, the value will be a fraction. If the result would be 0, the allowed Challenge Rating will be 1/2 instead. If it would be -1, it will be 1/3, -2 will be 1/4 and -3 will be 1/5.

    If the minion’s original type is animal or vermin, change it to magical beast (the creature loses its animal or vermin traits and gains magical beast traits); otherwise, its type is untouched. Minions that are not magical beasts do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).

    If the shrine warrior choses a minion only available at a level other than 1st, it gains special abilities at a different rate than what is shown in Table: The Minion.

    See the table below to see when a shrine warrior’s minion gains special abilities. If the minion’s natural Intelligence or natural armor is higher than the value given in the table, use the minion’s natural Intelligence or natural armor.

    {table=head]{colsp=5}Table: Minion's Special Abilities
    Shrine Warrior Level by Minion Availability | Bonus HD | Natural Armor Adj.| Str Adj.| Int
    Level to Level +3 | +0 | +2 | +0 | 6
    Level+4 to Level+7 | +2 | +4 | +1 | 7
    Level+8 to Level+11 | +4 | +6 | +2 | 8
    Level+12 to Level+15 | +6 | +8 | +3 | 9
    Level+16 or higher | +8 | +10 | +4 | 10
    [/table]

    The expressions in the left-hand column of the table refer to the current level of the shrine warrior in relation to the level at which a particular kind of mount becomes available. For instance, the lion becomes available as a minion when a Medium-sized shrine warrior reaches 6th level, so the information on the “Level to Level + 3” line applies to such a minion when the shrine warrior is 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th level. When he reaches 10th level, the information on the next line down applies.

    Another example: A 10th-level goblin shrine warrior has a wolf minion. For Small shrine warriors, the wolf becomes available at 4th level, so, for the purpose of the table above, the shrine warrior is at level + 6. Checking the appropriate line on the table, you find that a 10th-level Small shrine warrior’s wolf minion has the following attributes: +2 HD, +4 natural armor, +1 Strength adjustment, and Int 7.

    The shrine warrior's minion has other special abilities described in Table: The Minion. Those are always gained at the pace described in that table. If the minion normally has spell resistance, it does not lose its spell resistance prior to the shrine warrior’s reaching the level at which all minions gain spell resistance, and the minion continues using its natural spell resistance from that level on if that value is higher.

    Minions as mounts: Minions larger than the shrine warrior might be able to serve as mounts. The DM have the final decision on what is or is not a suitable mount. At its most basic level, a mount should be able and willing to carry its rider in a typical fashion. (A camel is able and willing. A tiger might be capable but may not be willing. A giant might be willing but not truly able.) Also, a flying mount can carry no more than a light load aloft.

    Spoiler
    Show
    PS: I keep this stuff in a personal, offline wiki. I decided to keep the encyclopedic presentation I use for referencing ease
    Last edited by Larkas; 2012-06-08 at 12:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

  2. Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    I would think that with the smaller spell list and weaker spells you should just let players to cast any spell from their list at will without preparing. Furthermore I think that familiars are usless xp destroyers (sorry for the bluntness, but I feel really strongly about that). They really aren't that useful as written. The class as it is right now is weaker than the paladin. It also needs some unique touches too, so you could take down too birds with one stone. What about a progression of special abilities that players can choose from (maybe 4 of them in a pattern) and maybe an animal companion instead of a familiar?

  3. Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    I would think that with the smaller spell list and weaker spells you should just let players to cast any spell from their list at will without preparing. Furthermore I think that familiars are usless xp destroyers (sorry for the bluntness, but I feel really strongly about that). They really aren't that useful as written. The class as it is right now is weaker than the paladin. It also needs some unique touches too, so you could take down too birds with one stone. What about a progression of special abilities that players can choose from (maybe 4 of them in a pattern) and maybe an animal companion instead of a familiar?
    1 - Spontaneous spellcasting, huh? Hmmmm, let that sink in for a while. Might be a good change.

    2 - Don't worry, you were not blunt But I think you're forgetting about a familiar's strongest ability: share spells. With that, characters able cast Polymorph (like adepts and shrine warriors) can essentially turn their familiar into something really big, like a 12-headed pyrohydra, while turning themselves into something equally big, like a Fire Giant, with a single spell. If you also chose something like the Strength domain, you're just one standard action away from Righteous Might, which will affect both you and your familiar. Then you can proceed to win the internet In this, both familiars and animal companions are similar, since they both have share spells, but familiars end up being slightly better because they get to keep their increased Intelligence while under Polymorph, even if they are somewhat worse otherwise. Familiars are more "burst damage", if it were, while animal companions are more "lasting strength". Reading me write about it, though, this DOES sound like an optimizer's rant, which is okay for playing and DMing, but not for class designing... This class would classify for the Unearthed Arcana's Simple Sorcerer/Wizard Variant, though. A half-class level animal companion might be good enough, since I don't want this to be too strong.

    3 - About the special abilities, this is a nice idea! Those Bonus Feats are there more to keep the class more interesting on the long run, but they can easily be replaced (or complemented). Would you care to elaborate?


    Anyways, thank you very much for the critiques, eftexar!
    Last edited by Larkas; 2012-04-18 at 11:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

  4. Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    I would keep the feats as well. What I meant was something like the rogue has (but with priestly abilities) or even something similar to how turn/rebuke feats work.
    Unfortunately I'm not drawing many specific ideas right now. If I do I'll drop on by again. Try looking at Complete Divine if you have it though.

  5. Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Lol its crazy that such a simple idea can make a great class.

    the only thing I disagree with so far is the animal compnaion/ familiar idea. Instead I think the Shrine warrior should get some kind of sooped up self Buff they get at 2nd level that last for X ( like 2+CON modifier rounds) that is sort of liek a barbarians rage i guess , like +4 bonus to STR and CON and +2 to AC?

    but that is just me thinking off teh top of my head.

  6. Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    I would keep the feats as well. What I meant was something like the rogue has (but with priestly abilities) or even something similar to how turn/rebuke feats work.
    Unfortunately I'm not drawing many specific ideas right now. If I do I'll drop on by again. Try looking at Complete Divine if you have it though.
    Hmmm, gotcha. I'll try thinking of something too.

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    Lol its crazy that such a simple idea can make a great class.

    the only thing I disagree with so far is the animal compnaion/ familiar idea. Instead I think the Shrine warrior should get some kind of sooped up self Buff they get at 2nd level that last for X ( like 2+CON modifier rounds) that is sort of liek a barbarians rage i guess , like +4 bonus to STR and CON and +2 to AC?

    but that is just me thinking off teh top of my head.
    Hey, I'm glad you liked it

    It seems like a consensus that the familiar is not very attractive. I'm afraid of getting rid of it completely though, as it would lower the versatility of the class somewhat. Hmmmm... What if it was given at 1st level by the powers that be, and went something like this?

    {table=head]{colsp=6}Table: The Animal Minion
    Master Class Level | Bonus HD | Natural Armor Adj.| Str Adj.| Int| Special
    1st-4th | +0 | +2 | +0 | 6 | Empathic link, evasion, share spells, share saving throws
    5th-8th | +2 | +4 | +1 | 7 | Speak with master
    9th-12th | +4 | +6 | +2 | 8 | Speak with animals of its kind
    13th-16th | +6 | +8 | +3 | 9 | Improved evasion
    17th-20th | +8 | +10 | +4 | 10 | Spell resistance
    [/table]

    As you can see, it is mostly based on the paladin's mount, but it has some stuff from both the druid's animal companion and the wizard's familiar. The idea is for you to be able to select an animal of CRX at most, which must be of the character's size or smaller, or an animal of CRX-1, which must be one size category larger than the character at most (this might be restricted to higher levels, something like the druid's alternative animal companions). The idea is that you could have an animal that acts similar to either a druid's animal companion or a paladin's mount, although different from both. Overall, this animal minion would be slightly weaker than the mount, the animal companion or the familiar, but that is intended. I still have to flesh it out completely, though. What do you think?
    ______________________________
    Spoiler
    Show

    EDIT: How about this? I still have to make a table with example minions for characters above first level, in which I intend to put stronger animals, vermins, magical beasts, templated creatures (celestial, fiendish, axiomatic, anarchic, draconic and even skeletal), elementals and maybe even some outsiders and oozes, but the mechanic is mostly done.

    Minion (Sp): A shrine warrior may begin play with the service of a loyal minion to help her with her cause. A Medium character may select any of the following: badger, cat, dire rat, dog, donkey, hawk, lizard, monkey, owl, pony, rat, raven, or weasel. A Small character may not select the badger, but otherwise has access to the same list, with the added options of bat and toad. A minion is a magical beast that resembles an animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.

    The shrine warrior gains a minion by performing a ritual requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of meditation or prayer. The minion is an unusual creature, presented to the shrine warrior by her deity or whatever power she holds dear, and appears right next to the character at the end of the ritual.

    Should the shrine warrior’s minion die, she may not pray for another one for thirty days or until she gains a shrine warrior level, whichever comes first. During this thirty-day period, the shrine warrior takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls. A slain minion can be returned from the dead just as a character can, however, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs. If is brought back to life, the shrine warriors stop suffering from the aforementioned penalty.

    A more experienced shrine warrior may select other, stronger animals. See below for details.

    MINIONS

    The minion is superior to a normal creature of its kind and has special powers, as described below. A shrine warrior’s minion is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it retains an animal’s HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats).

    {table=head]{colsp=6}Table: The Minion
    Master Class Level | Bonus HD | Natural Armor Adj.| Str Adj.| Int| Special
    1st-4th | +0 | +2 | +0 | 6 | Empathic link, evasion, share spells, share saving throws
    5th-8th | +2 | +4 | +1 | 7 | Speak with master
    9th-12th | +4 | +6 | +2 | 8 | Speak with animals of its kind
    13th-16th | +6 | +8 | +3 | 9 | Improved evasion
    17th-20th | +8 | +10 | +4 | 10 | Spell resistance
    [/table]

    Minion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the minion’s kind, but make changes to take into account the attributes and characteristics summarized on the table and described above.

    Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the minion’s base attack and base save bonuses. A minion’s base attack bonus is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the minion’s HD. A minion's good saves are determined by the base creature (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). The minion gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.

    Natural Armor Adj.: The number on the table is an improvement to the minion’s existing natural armor bonus.

    Str Adj.: Add this figure to the minion’s Strength score.

    Int: The minion’s Intelligence score.

    Empathic Link (Su): The shrine warrior has an empathic link with her minion out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The shrine warrior cannot see through the minion’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Note that even intelligent minions see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.

    Because of this empathic link, the shrine warrior has the same connection to an item or place that her minion does, just as with a master and his familiar (see Familiars).

    Evasion (Ex): If a minion is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, it takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw.

    Share Spells: At the shrine warrior’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her minion. The minion must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the minion if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the minion again even if it returns to the shrine warrior before the duration expires. Additionally, the shrine warrior may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her minion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A shrine warrior and her minion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the minion’s type (magical beast).

    Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the minion uses its own base save bonus or the shrine warrior’s, whichever is higher. The minion applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any other bonuses on saves that the master might have.

    Speak with Master (Ex): If the master is 5th level or higher, a minion and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.

    Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex): If the master is 7th level or higher, a minion can communicate with animals of approximately the same kind as itself (including dire varieties): bats with bats, rats with rodents, cats with felines, hawks and owls and ravens with birds, lizards and snakes with reptiles, toads with amphibians, weasels with similar creatures (weasels, minks, polecats, ermines, skunks, wolverines, and badgers). Such communication is limited by the intelligence of the conversing creatures.

    Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.

    Spell Resistance (Ex): A minion’s spell resistance equals its master’s shrine warrior level + 5. To affect the mount with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the minion’s spell resistance.

    ALTERNATIVE MINIONS

    The creatures available as minions are defined by size category and Challenge Rating. A shrine warrior may only choose a minion one or two size categories smaller to one larger than himself, including his own size category.

    A minion one or two size categories smaller than his master should have a Challenge Rating no more than 1 less than the master's shrine warrior level. A minion of the same size category as his master should have a Challenge Rating no more than 2 less than the master's shrine warrior level. A minion one size category larger than his master should have a Challenge Rating no more than 3 less than the master's shrine warrior level. If the minion can fly, increase the Challenge Rating difference by 1.

    A creature's Challenge Rating can never be 0 or lower. If at lower levels the minion's maximum allowed Challenge Rating would be lower than 1, that doesn't mean a minion can't be chosen. Instead, the value will be a fraction. If the result would be 0, the allowed Challenge Rating will be 1/2 instead. If it would be -1, it will be 1/3, -2 will be 1/4 and -3 will be 1/5.

    If the minion’s original type is animal or vermin, change it to magical beast (the creature loses its animal or vermin traits and gains magical beast traits); otherwise, its type is untouched. Minions that are not magical beasts do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).

    If the shrine warrior choses a minion only available at a level other than 1st, it gains special abilities at a different rate than what is shown in Table: The Minion.

    See the table below to see when a shrine warrior’s minion gains special abilities. If the minion’s natural Intelligence or natural armor is higher than the value given in the table, use the minion’s natural Intelligence or natural armor.

    {table=head]{colsp=5}Table: Minion's Special Abilities
    Shrine Warrior Level by Minion Availability | Bonus HD | Natural Armor Adj.| Str Adj.| Int
    Level to Level +3 | +0 | +2 | +0 | 6
    Level+4 to Level+7 | +2 | +4 | +1 | 7
    Level+8 to Level+11 | +4 | +6 | +2 | 8
    Level+12 to Level+15 | +6 | +8 | +3 | 9
    Level+16 or higher | +8 | +10 | +4 | 10
    [/table]

    The expressions in the left-hand column of the table refer to the current level of the shrine warrior in relation to the level at which a particular kind of mount becomes available. For instance, the lion becomes available as a minion when a Medium-sized shrine warrior reaches 6th level, so the information on the “Level to Level + 3” line applies to such a minion when the shrine warrior is 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th level. When he reaches 10th level, the information on the next line down applies.

    Another example: A 10th-level goblin shrine warrior has a wolf minion. For Small shrine warriors, the wolf becomes available at 4th level, so, for the purpose of the table above, the shrine warrior is at level + 6. Checking the appropriate line on the table, you find that a 10th-level Small shrine warrior’s wolf minion has the following attributes: +2 HD, +4 natural armor, +1 Strength adjustment, and Int 7.

    The shrine warrior's minion has other special abilities described in Table: The Minion. Those are always gained at the pace described in that table. If the minion normally has spell resistance, it does not lose its spell resistance prior to the shrine warrior’s reaching the level at which all minions gain spell resistance, and the minion continues using its natural spell resistance from that level on if that value is higher.

    MINIONS AS MOUNTS

    Minions larger than the shrine warrior might be able to serve as mounts. The DM have the final decision on what is or is not a suitable mount. At its most basic level, a mount should be able and willing to carry its rider in a typical fashion. (A camel is able and willing. A tiger might be capable but may not be willing. A giant might be willing but not truly able.) Also, a flying mount can carry no more than a light load aloft.
    Last edited by Larkas; 2012-05-06 at 02:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

  7. Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Empedocles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Before I get down into the crunch of it, I'd like to say two things. First, the reason you haven't had much feedback on this is likely because it's quite simple and extremely well done. There's not that much to say. Second, your spell table is messed up...and it's very distracting

    Now, I like this a lot and might use it for a campaign villain. Pretty much everything is done well and it's still cool while being simple. It might be justified to either give him two domains or, and this is more likely, give him a bonus spell for domains. However, that brings him farther from being a gish and closer to being a spellcaster, which is a trap a lot of classes like this can fall into.

    Other suggestions would be to make the skill points 4 which won't unbalance anything but will keep me from going over every skill description with a magnifying glass and highlighter in the PHB, and maybe giving it a d10 HD.

    Regarding the minion, I like it a lot, but to me it doesn't feel very different from an animal companion/familiar. I'd say either allow the player to give it the fiendish or celestial template (which definitely won't make it too strong. Promise) or give it some SLAs.

    In the domain section you might want to specify that the shrine warrior also gets the domain's granted power (I assume you want him to).
    Extended Signature here.

    No, I am your father.
    Me? I'm the docotor.
    So say we all.
    Save the cheerleader, save the world.
    Do you know how I got these scars?
    Hasta la vista, baby.

    Darth Vader avatar by Kymme

  8. Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Empedocles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Before I get down into the crunch of it, I'd like to say two things. First, the reason you haven't had much feedback on this is likely because it's quite simple and extremely well done. There's not that much to say. Second, your spell table is messed up...and it's very distracting

    Now, I like this a lot and might use it for a campaign villain. Pretty much everything is done well and it's still cool while being simple. It might be justified to either give him two domains or, and this is more likely, give him a bonus spell for domains. However, that brings him farther from being a gish and closer to being a spellcaster, which is a trap a lot of classes like this can fall into.

    Other suggestions would be to make the skill points 4 which won't unbalance anything but will keep me from going over every skill description with a magnifying glass and highlighter in the PHB, and maybe giving it a d10 HD.

    Regarding the minion, I like it a lot, but to me it doesn't feel very different from an animal companion/familiar. I'd say either allow the player to give it the fiendish or celestial template (which definitely won't make it too strong. Promise) or give it some SLAs.

    In the domain section you might want to specify that the shrine warrior also gets the domain's granted power (I assume you want him to).
    Extended Signature here.

    No, I am your father.
    Me? I'm the docotor.
    So say we all.
    Save the cheerleader, save the world.
    Do you know how I got these scars?
    Hasta la vista, baby.

    Darth Vader avatar by Kymme

  9. Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Empedocles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    For some reason, my last post didn't bump this. So...

    BUMP
    Extended Signature here.

    No, I am your father.
    Me? I'm the docotor.
    So say we all.
    Save the cheerleader, save the world.
    Do you know how I got these scars?
    Hasta la vista, baby.

    Darth Vader avatar by Kymme

  10. Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    Before I get down into the crunch of it, I'd like to say two things. First, the reason you haven't had much feedback on this is likely because it's quite simple and extremely well done. There's not that much to say. Second, your spell table is messed up...and it's very distracting
    Thank you very much for the input, Vilpich! Glad you like it

    On the spell table, do you mean the right side of the main table? It should look like this:

    Spoiler
    Show


    That's the problem with making the table like that. When it works, it looks pretty, when it doesn't, it looks really messed up I'm looking at this from a resolution of 1366x768, maybe it has something to do with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    Now, I like this a lot and might use it for a campaign villain. Pretty much everything is done well and it's still cool while being simple. It might be justified to either give him two domains or, and this is more likely, give him a bonus spell for domains. However, that brings him farther from being a gish and closer to being a spellcaster, which is a trap a lot of classes like this can fall into.
    I'm a little afraid to give him two domains and make him too strong... But giving him a bonus spell slot for his sole domain might be a good idea! He gets one extra spell slot for level just for his domain and can still prepare his domain spell in the other slots if he wants. How does that sound?

    Anyways, if you do use it for a villain, let me know how it turns out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    Other suggestions would be to make the skill points 4 which won't unbalance anything but will keep me from going over every skill description with a magnifying glass and highlighter in the PHB, and maybe giving it a d10 HD.
    Hey, I guess giving him 4 skill points won't hurt at all, great idea! I'm a little wary of bumping his HD, though, he can still be very effective at battle with all his spells and other nice things, and he's not too MAD, so you can pump Con with little trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    Regarding the minion, I like it a lot, but to me it doesn't feel very different from an animal companion/familiar. I'd say either allow the player to give it the fiendish or celestial template (which definitely won't make it too strong. Promise) or give it some SLAs.
    Gaaah, I really must move my butt and get to working at an expanded minion table. I totally intended it to be able to apply templates and select other things as minions. For example, at first level you could apply both the fiendish and celestial template for free on any of the sample minions, since it doesn't increase CR. You could even have skeletal minions, since they have very low CR too! If your character is some kind of vermin lover, you could get a Giant Fire Beetle, a Small Monstrous Centipede, a Small Monstrous Scorpion or a Small Monstrous Spider. And that's only at first level! At 2nd level, you could have Small elementals, at 3rd, both a Lemure and a Dretch. At 5th level, for example, you could get a Heavy Warhorse, just like a Paladin -- it would just advance later as per the table "Minion's Special Abilities". I modeled it somewhat after both the familiar, the animal companion and the paladin's mount. The difference would mainly rest in the variety, not in the mechanics... Anyways, I will try to put an "advanced minions" table together to explain the concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    In the domain section you might want to specify that the shrine warrior also gets the domain's granted power (I assume you want him to).
    D'oh, of course! Thank you for pointing that out
    Last edited by Larkas; 2012-05-05 at 11:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

  11. Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Empedocles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Thank you very much for the input, Vilpich! Glad you like it
    Sure Anytime, just ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    On the spell table, do you mean the right side of the main table? It should look like this:

    Spoiler
    Show


    That's the problem with making the table like that. When it works, it looks pretty, when it doesn't, it looks really messed up I'm looking at this from a resolution of 1366x768, maybe it has something to do with that?
    yeah, for some reason the one you have there looks terrible... I was referring to the spell table though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    I'm a little afraid to give him two domains and make him too strong... But giving him a bonus spell slot for his sole domain might be a good idea! He gets one extra spell slot for level just for his domain and can still prepare his domain spell in the other slots if he wants. How does that sound?
    He won't be too strong, but I like the idea of 1 domain but he can prepare it in other slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Anyways, if you do use it for a villain, let me know how it turns out!
    Will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Hey, I guess giving him 4 skill points won't hurt at all, great idea! I'm a little wary of bumping his HD, though, he can still be very effective at battle with all his spells and other nice things, and he's not too MAD, so you can pump Con with little trouble.
    the HD really won't make a huge deal, but honestly it's fine as is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Gaaah, I really must move my butt and get to working at an expanded minion table. I totally intended it to be able to apply templates and select other things as minions. For example, at first level you could apply both the fiendish and celestial template for free on any of the sample minions, since it doesn't increase CR. You could even have skeletal minions, since they have very low CR too! If your character is some kind of vermin lover, you could get a Giant Fire Beetle, a Small Monstrous Centipede, a Small Monstrous Scorpion or a Small Monstrous Spider. And that's only at first level! At 2nd level, you could have Small elementals, at 3rd, both a Lemure and a Dretch. At 5th level, for example, you could get a Heavy Warhorse, just like a Paladin -- it would just advance later as per the table "Minion's Special Abilities". I modeled it somewhat after both the familiar, the animal companion and the paladin's mount. The difference would mainly rest in the variety, not in the mechanics... Anyways, I will try to put an "advanced minions" table together to explain the concept
    Sounds good. Also, this is just a thought but at higher levels an apprentice with class levels as a minion could be cool (as long as it isn't a shrine warrior, or you get an infinite loop of minions )
    Extended Signature here.

    No, I am your father.
    Me? I'm the docotor.
    So say we all.
    Save the cheerleader, save the world.
    Do you know how I got these scars?
    Hasta la vista, baby.

    Darth Vader avatar by Kymme

  12. Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Truly a remarkable work.
    One of the best and most complete homebrew classes I've encountered.
    Just implement eftexar's and Vilpich's suggestions and it's good to go.

  13. Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    yeah, for some reason the one you have there looks terrible... I was referring to the spell table though.
    Oh, the spell list? Heck, I'll have to think of a better way to present the information, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    Sounds good. Also, this is just a thought but at higher levels an apprentice with class levels as a minion could be cool (as long as it isn't a shrine warrior, or you get an infinite loop of minions )
    Hey, that's a great idea! Hmmmm, I'm thinking of something based on Leadership, as soon as I have it done, I'll let you know. Shouldn't take long!

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Truly a remarkable work.
    One of the best and most complete homebrew classes I've encountered.
    Just implement eftexar's and Vilpich's suggestions and it's good to go.
    Thank you! I'm really glad you guys like it, I put a lot of effort in this

    Before I go, something I noticed: If I give this guy domain slots, he would be able to prepare as many spells per level as a Wizard (only up to 4th level, 5th would be one less, but still), just one less than a Druid and one more than a Paladin. I'm a little wary of making him too much stronger than the latter: he is supposed to be T3, but I don't want him to outclass the Paladin in every single aspect. Do you think this is an issue?
    Last edited by Larkas; 2012-05-06 at 11:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

  14. Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Empedocles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Oh, the spell list? Heck, I'll have to think of a better way to present the information, then.
    No, I meant the spells/day table on the same table as your clss features as chassis (the class table, I guess. I'm not sure if there's a better word).

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkas View Post
    Before I go, something I noticed: If I give this guy domain slots, he would be able to prepare as many spells per level as a Wizard (only up to 4th level, 5th would be one less, but still), just one less than a Druid and one more than a Paladin. I'm a little wary of making him too much stronger than the latter: he is supposed to be T3, but I don't want him to outclass the Paladin in every single aspect. Do you think this is an issue?
    It's really not an issue. Yeah, he'll probably completely outclass the paladin in every way, except in straight up, no-magic melee combat (the paladin still has his mount for charges if he's built that way, and his smites). His spell list is so limited that as many spells as a wizard shouldn't be a problem.

    Also, just wanted so say that I love the ACFs
    Extended Signature here.

    No, I am your father.
    Me? I'm the docotor.
    So say we all.
    Save the cheerleader, save the world.
    Do you know how I got these scars?
    Hasta la vista, baby.

    Darth Vader avatar by Kymme

  15. Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    After a terribly long while, I was able to cook these:

    Spellcasting changes
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]
    Table: The Shrine Warrior


    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|
    Fort Save
    |
    Ref Save
    |
    Will Save
    |Special

    1st|+1|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat, Minion

    2nd|+2|
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |

    3rd|+3|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |

    4th|+4|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |

    5th|+5|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat

    6th|+6/+1|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |

    7th|+7/+2|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |

    8th|+8/+3|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |

    9th|+9/+4|
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |

    10th|+10/+5|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Bonus Feat

    11th|+11/+6/+1|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |

    12th|+12/+7/+2|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |

    13th|+13/+8/+3|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |

    14th|+14/+9/+4|
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |

    15th|+15/+10/+5|
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Bonus Feat

    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |

    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |

    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Bonus Feat

    [/table][/table]

    {table=head]
    Table: Shrine Warrior's Spells per Day


    {table=head]Level|....0....|
    ...1st...
    |
    ...2nd...
    |
    ...3rd...
    |
    ...4th...
    |
    ...5th...


    1st|
    3
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |
    |

    2nd|
    3
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |
    |

    3rd|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    |
    |
    |

    4th|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1
    |
    |
    |

    5th|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |

    6th|
    4
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |
    |

    7th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    |
    |

    8th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1
    |
    |

    9th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |

    10th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |
    |

    11th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    |

    12th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1
    |

    13th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |

    14th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1
    |

    15th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |

    16th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    0+1

    17th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1

    18th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    |
    1+1

    19th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1

    20th|
    4
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    3+1
    |
    2+1
    [/table] [/table]

    Spells: A shrine warrior casts divine spells which are drawn from the shrine warrior spell list (see below). Like a cleric, a shrine warrior must choose and prepare her spells in advance. Unlike a cleric, a shrine warrior cannot spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells.

    To prepare or cast a spell, a shrine warrior must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a shrine warrior’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the shrine warrior’s Wisdom modifier.

    Like other spellcasters, a shrine warrior can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Shrine Warrior's Spells per Day. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score. A shrine warrior also gets one domain spell of each spell level she can cast, starting at 1st level. When a shrine warrior prepares a spell in a domain spell slot, it must come from her domain (see Domain and Domain Spells, below). Unlike a cleric, the shrine warrior may also prepare her domain spells in regular spell slots. When Table: Shrine Warrior's Spells per Day indicates that the shrine warrior gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Wisdom score for that spell level. Furthermore, she gains a domain spell slot (represented by the “+1”) of that level only if she is entitled to bonus spells of that level.

    Shrine warriors, unlike wizards, do not acquire their spells from books or scrolls, nor do they prepare them through study. Instead, they meditate or pray for their spells, receiving them as divine inspiration or through their own strength of faith. Each shrine warrior must choose a time each day at which she must spend an hour in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain her daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a shrine warrior can prepare spells.

    Each shrine warrior has a particular holy symbol (as a divine focus) depending on the shrine warrior’s magical tradition.

    Domain and Domain Spells: The shrine warrior can select a single cleric domain. The domain gives the shrine warrior access to a domain spell at each spell level she can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. A shrine warrior prepares those spells in her domain spell slots, but can also prepare them in place of her usual spells.

    While most shrine warriors follow one of the major religions, even shrine warriors who do not worship a specific deity get to select a domain.

    If a cleric takes a level in the shrine warrior class, he does not get to select a new domain, but instead choses one of his current domains as the one he will use for his new class. Likewise, a shrine warrior who takes cleric levels must use her shrine warrior domain as one of her two cleric domains.

    New ACF
    Spoiler
    Show
    Altar Server

    Some shrine warriors believe it is easier to defend her faith by spreading it. These charismatic individuals lead by example, and sometimes can attract like-minded beings to aid in their cause, be they priestly duties, preaching, or fighting enemies of their faith.

    Class: Shrine warrior.

    Level: 1st.

    Special Requirements: Cha 13.

    Replaces: You don't gain a minion at 1st level.

    Benefit: You gain Leadership at 1st level as a bonus feat, even if you do not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

    You may only recruit a cohort of the same faith as you and of the same alignment as your deity. At 6th level, these restrictions are lifted. You receive a +1 to your leadership score any time you would recruit a cohort of the same faith as you, and another +1 any time you would recruit a cohort of the same aligment as your deity.

    Furthermore, at 1st level your cohort must have a CR of 1/3, at most. At 2nd level, that limit is increased to 1/2. At 3rd and later levels, use the regular Leadership rules (that is, the cohort must be two or more levels lower than the shrine warrior).

    I'm very sorry for the hold up I had these done for a while, but couldn't sit and type them up. Anyways, on the changes: I've addressed the proposed changes to spells per day and domain spell slots. I tried to balance it the best I could, and I think the "0+1" levels came out pretty nicely. With these, however, the idea to transform the shrine warrior into a spontaneous spellcaster can't really come to bear... Not a huge loss with all the increased power, I think. Anyways, I've split the table in two to avoid viewing issues, and deleted the "Domain" from the table, since it is now an integral part of the class and explained on the text. The ACF is pretty much a way to access Leadership earlier

    Please, let me know what you think!

    And I promise I will do the sample minion table someday

    EDIT: We have a rogue edit here! I forgot to say I took away the heavy armor proficiency to balance out things a bit and differentiate the shrine warrior a little more from the cleric and the paladin. Shouldn't have a huge impact, you can always get a Mithral Full Plate for a little more gp, after all.
    Last edited by Larkas; 2012-05-16 at 06:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

  16. Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Shrine Warrior, The Other Divine Agent (PEACH)

    Bad move on the prepared spells.

    The Duskblade has more powerful spells, more spell output, spell channeling and more potent effects thanks to Spell Power.

    I see no reason why this class shouldn't have spontaneous spellcasting along with it's chosen domain spells in its repertoire, plus domain powers. The Duskblade would still be more powerful, but the skill advantage of the Shrine Warrior would even them up nicely.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •