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  1. - Top - End - #901
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    That's not a question, it is a scenario description. But yes, it is a thing that can be done.
    I guess what I meant is... Wouldn't it be a bit too OP? Just asking.
    "If you can't slam with the best, then jam with the rest" - Charles Barkley

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by darklink_shadow View Post
    To what end? The rogue is going to sneak past them and gut you anyways.

    Four dudes to guard a mile radius area isn't enough either. Everyone will just avoid them.
    Here is the answer, more or less.

    At the level it can be done, the animated objects are not a particularly great threat. Good for attrition, sure, but they are very easy to avoid.

    That being said, I would expect a high level character in his own turf to be an exceptionally difficult fight. The colossal animated object spam is honestly the least dangerous thing I can see a Grove having (compared to, say, an underground grove with Yellow Mold everywhere), it is just the most showy, or as I like to say "dangerous to muggles".

    Because that is what the colossal topiary of doom is, an insurmountable challenge for the incredibly mediocre. Actual threats will deal with it and go on to fight the Evolutionist (along with his topiary of doom).

    The equivalent for more standard mook masters would be the summoned (called) zoo of infinite worlds, which has less raw beef but more special powers.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    True, I have another question then.

    By the Evolutionist being present for enchanting of Armor of the Outer Planes and Arms of the Outer Planes, does it mean he can... well, he can even fall asleep in the room and it would count?

    What if the weapon or armor is sundered in that case? Does it get some sort of healing, can it be resummoned, repaired?

    Edit:

    Is the Jet mutation affected by the character wearing heavy armor?

    Also, am I understanding it correctly? If I take it twice, will I be able to Run 7 times my base speed without provoking attacks of opportunity?

    EDIT AGAIN:

    Also, if I understand it right, when a person gets Teratomorphism II as class feature, can he instead just choose another Teratomorphism I, different than the one he chose previously?

    And, last thing to add, wouldn't it be better to make the Arms of the Outer Plane also have the option to be made from any material, just like Armor can be?

    Also, is this scenario possible:

    Evolutionist bought Construct Mutator feat and thus has access to construct Mutations and teratomorphs. At level 5 he takes the Plating Teratomorph. Since he can qualify for Warforged feats, can he spend a mutation to get a feat/racial feat, whichever it would be, to get Adamantine body and this laugh as he has equivalent of full plate, until he gains fourth Teratomorph, thus replacing the need for Adamantine body(Unless he wants DR) replacing the mutation that gave him feat Adamantine body with a different mutation? Like, can he this way laugh as he constantly has equivalent of full plate from level 5, which even gets better at very later levels, costing him only one mutation that he regains later on?

    Unless bonus from plating and Adamantine body stacks...

    Do you, by saying Plating has no Max Dex Bonus, mean that it is 0 or that there is no limit unless affected by wearing armor or Warforged feats?

    Can evolutionist with Plating attach Warforged components to his body? Would they be hidden if he uses Change Shape Mutation?

    If Ascendancy changes Evolutionist's type, would change Shape count his original type for determining what he looks like?

    Could Integrated Arsenal not create a weapon but a slot for sheathing weapon of specific type if he finds one, integrating it into one's arsenal, in a way? If one creates his weapon with this mutation, what material is it?

    Can evolutionist still receive grafts from Xenoalchemists? If yes, is it wrong I am grinning like an idiot because we have one in our party?
    Last edited by Yasahiro; 2014-07-26 at 05:33 AM.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    And this one is long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasahiro View Post
    True, I have another question then.

    By the Evolutionist being present for enchanting of Armor of the Outer Planes and Arms of the Outer Planes, does it mean he can... well, he can even fall asleep in the room and it would count?

    What if the weapon or armor is sundered in that case? Does it get some sort of healing, can it be resummoned, repaired?
    He needs to be present because he can't just leave the weapon/armor with the enchanter. Other than that he doesn't have to do anything.

    If the weapon is sundered it just needs to be dropped and resummoned, armor can't be sundered but if it was hit by a rust monster, the same would apply.

    Edit:

    Is the Jet mutation affected by the character wearing heavy armor?
    Yes.

    Also, am I understanding it correctly? If I take it twice, will I be able to Run 7 times my base speed without provoking attacks of opportunity?
    As a full-round action and in a straight line, it is pretty much a super-run action.

    EDIT AGAIN:

    Also, if I understand it right, when a person gets Teratomorphism II as class feature, can he instead just choose another Teratomorphism I, different than the one he chose previously?
    He can, and some teratomorphisms can be taken repeatedly (Extra Mutations, Heart of [Element], etc) so you can pick those repeatedly if he wants.

    And, last thing to add, wouldn't it be better to make the Arms of the Outer Plane also have the option to be made from any material, just like Armor can be?
    I will see to that.

    Also, is this scenario possible:

    Evolutionist bought Construct Mutator feat and thus has access to construct Mutations and teratomorphs. At level 5 he takes the Plating Teratomorph. Since he can qualify for Warforged feats, can he spend a mutation to get a feat/racial feat, whichever it would be, to get Adamantine body and this laugh as he has equivalent of full plate, until he gains fourth Teratomorph, thus replacing the need for Adamantine body(Unless he wants DR) replacing the mutation that gave him feat Adamantine body with a different mutation? Like, can he this way laugh as he constantly has equivalent of full plate from level 5, which even gets better at very later levels, costing him only one mutation that he regains later on?

    Unless bonus from plating and Adamantine body stacks...
    It is explicitly called out as stacking.

    Do you, by saying Plating has no Max Dex Bonus, mean that it is 0 or that there is no limit unless affected by wearing armor or Warforged feats?
    No max dexterity bonus is a specific game term that means the armor does not interfere with your dex bonus to AC.

    Can evolutionist with Plating attach Warforged components to his body? Would they be hidden if he uses Change Shape Mutation?
    Change shape can't change your creature type. If you take the construct ascendance you can attach warforged components, you can also always UMD them with the emulate race function.

    If Ascendancy changes Evolutionist's type, would change Shape count his original type for determining what he looks like?
    It does because of the (Augmented X) subtype that ascendancy always gives.

    Could Integrated Arsenal not create a weapon but a slot for sheathing weapon of specific type if he finds one, integrating it into one's arsenal, in a way? If one creates his weapon with this mutation, what material is it?
    It creates the weapon, not the empty slot. The material is whatever you find appropriate for the character but the stats are those of steel (baseline).

    Can evolutionist still receive grafts from Xenoalchemists? If yes, is it wrong I am grinning like an idiot because we have one in our party?
    He can, talk to your DM if things like Tauric Body and extra arms gives you bonus slots for grafts.
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  5. - Top - End - #905
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    And this one is long.


    Yes.
    I meant to ask if it is limited or affected same way as Run is. Because in Heavy Armor, one can only run up to triple their speed. So would this lower the multiplier on the Jet's Super run?


    It is explicitly called out as stacking.
    I thought that Warforged has the Adamantine Body and similar feats because they can't regularly wear the armor due to their plating, so they get equivalent of armor. Wouldn't a Warforged Evolutionist 20 with Adamatine Body and Plating Teratomorph have like... +20 AC Bonus, not counting any enhancement bonuses from enchanting the plating? While I know that anything with access to Construct Teratomorphisms, that has the Plating Teratomorphism, can take Adamantine Body, but even if one goes Unarmored Body to be able to cast spells, with this Teratomorph they get additional +12 to AC. All I'm saying is that this seems kind of too strong, or raises AC too high. When comparing it to Armor of Outer Planes it... well, I know it is Teratomorphism of higher grade but still... Unless only I am the one seeing the problem.


    Change shape can't change your creature type. If you take the construct ascendance you can attach warforged components, you can also always UMD them with the emulate race function.
    No, see, I meant it like... Let's say one's original type was humanoid and they get Change Shape Mutation. So they would look human, right? But what if, once they got Construct Ascendance, they started attaching Warforged Components to themselves? They clearly were not part of one's original body and type.
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  6. - Top - End - #906
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasahiro View Post
    I thought that Warforged has the Adamantine Body and similar feats because they can't regularly wear the armor due to their plating, so they get equivalent of armor. Wouldn't a Warforged Evolutionist 20 with Adamatine Body and Plating Teratomorph have like... +20 AC Bonus, not counting any enhancement bonuses from enchanting the plating? While I know that anything with access to Construct Teratomorphisms, that has the Plating Teratomorphism, can take Adamantine Body, but even if one goes Unarmored Body to be able to cast spells, with this Teratomorph they get additional +12 to AC. All I'm saying is that this seems kind of too strong, or raises AC too high. When comparing it to Armor of Outer Planes it... well, I know it is Teratomorphism of higher grade but still... Unless only I am the one seeing the problem.
    I beleive what Draken is saying is that it DOES stack; and the "tooltip" (please excuse my mmo) says it does.

    Here is what I noticed were the biggest differences btween the two

    Construct Plating: You can get a Higher AC.

    Armor of the outer Planes: Not only can you take it off. You get a Side Enchantment bonus = 1/4 ML (so +5 at level 20), you also can get it enchanted with +10 Special Abilities ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT!. So Hello +5 Full Plate (Ac 13) with Heavy Fortification (no Crits!), Nimbleness (more AC from dex, 1 more infact than constructs AC Build.) GhostTouch and something else.
    So ok; maybe it's not "as" cool; but you can take it off, which is Nice sometimes for some builds. Using the rest of the below build; you can also still get pretty High AC (82 by quick math)


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    Warforged with Adamantine Body: AC 8

    6 Teratomorphs at level 17: 2ac for each = AC 12

    so 20ac before Enchanting; Which would add another 5 baseline AC. Max Dex +1.
    Not high, but you can get force barrier also, which at this level is another 8 ac Shield.
    Natural Armor, which could add another 12 ac.

    So assuming 12 dex, thats what? 10+8+12+1+8+12=51 AC at level 17 for 14/70 Mutations and at least 1 teratomorph being plating?

    I Never really look that hard into the class to see about maxing out AC, but that's pretty nice. Add in some miss chance there and you got a really defensive little bug.

    I've always liked constructs, especially smart ones. The other Special Types look fun, but Construct is. wow.


    Edit: If memory serves, the Evolutionist Natural Armor would stack with normal natural armor. So Putting this on a Race with some Natural Armor Built in would boost it even more.
    Toss a reasonable amount of Evolve Will/Reflexes and Fortitude in there, along with the More HP one.
    You might not end up being the biggest hitter. But you sure can take the like a boss. (I'd build more towards guarenteed hits at this points rather than large damage dice. If you gonna be lasting ALONG time against opponents, you may as well hit them every time)

    Edit: Ohh, Toss in some outsider too if ya got some good charisma. AC=Cha Mod (3/mutation up to 5 total, so 15 Total Acheiveable, but realistically, probally adding another 4-5 at most. 3 is probally best without wasting two mutations. But thats still 3 more ac. heh

    Edit: And lets not forget Elemental; thier first teratomorph for air gives you +2dodge AC per tertomorph, lets add another 12 ac!.

    Now were cooking with oil!

    Assuming: Warforged, Adamantine Body Feat,Heart of the Elements [Air] Teratomorph 1, Plating Teratomorph II 12dex, 16cha, Level 17 and Full enchanted armor (at level +5; no side enchants) we got...
    10+8ac+12Plating+5magic+1dex+3cha(Deflection)+12Na t+8Shield+12dodge = 71ac.

    Feel Free to double check my math. This is basically at the cost of 1 single feat, 2 Teratomorphs and the armor Enchant.
    15/70 Mutations were spent.

    the only other way I see to raise this any higher within class is getting collosal strength from the aicient mutations and getting more dex. this could raise it another 4 ac if you could get 20dex.


    Spoiler: Lets see. Built for AC
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    Lets use some maxes; lets assume you spent at least the Minimum amount of gold to get stats to the minimum you can make use of them in the Evolutionist thing.
    This would mean: Dex 20, Cha16
    Level 20 (aka, access to 6 teratomorphs, which tops out the Bonus by Teratomorphs.)
    Teramorphs Taken:
    I: Heart of the Elements [Air]: 12 Dodge AC @ Level 17
    II: Plating: 12 AC Which Stacks with Adamantine Body
    III:Dire Body: 6 Natural AC (Stacks)
    IV: Living Bastion: Between adamantine Body, plating and This, you have 100% fortification. No Criticals on you!.
    V:Regeneration
    VI:Regeneration II: Between the two. well basically you get good fast healing, and all physcial attacks deal non-leathal damage

    Feats: Adamantine Body (8ac, Max dex 1), Elemental Mutator, Ancient mutator, outsider Mutator

    Mutations: (max takeable)
    Natural Armor (7): 14Natural Armor
    Force Barrier (5): 10 Shield (Cover as Tower Shield)
    Divine Ward (1): +3 Cha Deflection Bonus (Taken only once for realistic cha bonus's)
    Colossal Strength (4): Raises max dex bonus (4), allowing 20 dex to give 5 ac in total. Also lets you treat Adamantine body as light, which means you COULD take a level in swordsage and get some Wis Bonus in here too.

    Just within this we have 20AC, 20NatAC, 3 Deflection, 10 Shield, 5 Dex, 12 Dodge for a easy total of 80ac.
    85 if you took a level of swordsage and had 20 wis.
    88 if you ALSO got 22 cha and took another mutation of Divine Ward.
    And this is ALL legit within this class

    Flat Footed AC would be 83, Touch would be 38 I beleive?

    and that's only 17 Mutations. out of what? 78 Mutations at level 19? 18% of your total mutations?

    Last edited by DrunkenMists; 2014-07-27 at 07:34 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #907
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenMists View Post
    Spoiler: Lets see. Built for AC
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    Lets use some maxes; lets assume you spent at least the Minimum amount of gold to get stats to the minimum you can make use of them in the Evolutionist thing.
    This would mean: Dex 20, Cha16
    Level 20 (aka, access to 6 teratomorphs, which tops out the Bonus by Teratomorphs.)
    Teramorphs Taken:
    I: Heart of the Elements [Air]: 12 Dodge AC @ Level 17
    II: Plating: 12 AC Which Stacks with Adamantine Body
    III:Dire Body: 6 Natural AC (Stacks)
    IV: Living Bastion: Between adamantine Body, plating and This, you have 100% fortification. No Criticals on you!.
    V:Regeneration
    VI:Regeneration II: Between the two. well basically you get good fast healing, and all physcial attacks deal non-leathal damage

    Feats: Adamantine Body (8ac, Max dex 1), Elemental Mutator, Ancient mutator, outsider Mutator

    Mutations: (max takeable)
    Natural Armor (7): 14Natural Armor
    Force Barrier (5): 10 Shield (Cover as Tower Shield)
    Divine Ward (1): +3 Cha Deflection Bonus (Taken only once for realistic cha bonus's)
    Colossal Strength (4): Raises max dex bonus (4), allowing 20 dex to give 5 ac in total. Also lets you treat Adamantine body as light, which means you COULD take a level in swordsage and get some Wis Bonus in here too.

    Just within this we have 20AC, 20NatAC, 3 Deflection, 10 Shield, 5 Dex, 12 Dodge for a easy total of 80ac.
    85 if you took a level of swordsage and had 20 wis.
    88 if you ALSO got 22 cha and took another mutation of Divine Ward.
    And this is ALL legit within this class

    Flat Footed AC would be 83, Touch would be 38 I beleive?

    and that's only 17 Mutations. out of what? 78 Mutations at level 19? 18% of your total mutations?

    Well, that is a nice build that would make a DM have an aneurysm as they try to hit you... Hm

    If you don't mind, can I ask you for something then? An Evolutionary themed around the Tekkaman Blade. How would you suggest making one, just overall tips or what you think fits better and won't be too much, since I do not want to have my DM flip the table... Constantly.

    Edit:

    Also, would getting Hardness from the Living Bastion would be like DR that applies in different situations or is it like it applies first and then Damage Reduction?
    Last edited by Yasahiro; 2014-07-27 at 07:17 AM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasahiro View Post
    Well, that is a nice build that would make a DM have an aneurysm as they try to hit you... Hm

    If you don't mind, can I ask you for something then? An Evolutionary themed around the Tekkaman Blade. How would you suggest making one, just overall tips or what you think fits better and won't be too much, since I do not want to have my DM flip the table... Constantly.

    Edit:

    Also, would getting Hardness from the Living Bastion would be like DR that applies in different situations or is it like it applies first and then Damage Reduction?
    Actually I beleive it's DR or Energy Reduction (Like as if you have Cold Resistance 5) and then hardness. So Take your highest and thats what hardness you get (up to 20.) With Evo's, it's easy to get immune to an element, so say base line 2dr/adamantine and 20 hardness.
    A attack smacks you hard for 40 damage, If it's not adamantine, it's now 38. Your Hardness Takes that down to 18.
    I think it applies to everything unless it says otherwise (Shatter I think bypasses it?)

    Tekkaman Blade...Thats a mech anime isn't it?


    Spoiler: Stuff thats probally better off in a 3.5 discussion thread elsewhere in the forum
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    Hmm. I'd Do something up like the last post there, but drop the Elemental Ac's in favor of taking more Save Bonus's.
    Ignore the Level of Swordsage.

    If you want a squishy underneath, I'd go the Called Armor outsider route. the AC difference would probally bring it down to more of a AC level that wouldn't cause your DM to Pop a blood Vessel.

    Get a Respectable SR. and some Fitting Evolutions depending on how you want your guy to "look and fight"
    natural Weapons or Other Weapons are both possible with the build. Feat Hungry attack builds can be done some with the bonus feats from some evolutions.

    I'm seeing it personally as a heavy Cross between outside and construct with alot of innate and basic mutations.
    Kind of a Invevitable


    SIDE NOTE: Even if your immune to Crits. No Matter How high your AC is, Natural 20's Still always hit you.
    So you really only need your AC high enough that a roll of 19 or below causes it to not hit. heh.
    Last edited by DrunkenMists; 2014-07-27 at 07:39 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #909
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenMists View Post
    Spoiler: Stuff thats probally better off in a 3.5 discussion thread elsewhere in the forum
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    Hmm. I'd Do something up like the last post there, but drop the Elemental Ac's in favor of taking more Save Bonus's.
    Ignore the Level of Swordsage.

    If you want a squishy underneath, I'd go the Called Armor outsider route. the AC difference would probally bring it down to more of a AC level that wouldn't cause your DM to Pop a blood Vessel.

    Get a Respectable SR. and some Fitting Evolutions depending on how you want your guy to "look and fight"
    natural Weapons or Other Weapons are both possible with the build. Feat Hungry attack builds can be done some with the bonus feats from some evolutions.

    I'm seeing it personally as a heavy Cross between outside and construct with alot of innate and basic mutations.
    Kind of a Invevitable


    SIDE NOTE: Even if your immune to Crits. No Matter How high your AC is, Natural 20's Still always hit you.
    So you really only need your AC high enough that a roll of 19 or below causes it to not hit. heh.
    Thank you and Draken for being patient with me and explaining all of my questions. It's always better to listen to people with experience with this stuff, so that's why I kept asking.

    Thanks
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Draken, none of your PrCs for this class have their tables fixxed. Just thought you would want to know.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    That reminded me. The Latent Teratomorphs in High Evolutionary are limited to a person having one LATENT teratomorphism, right? Like, since he can give himself mutations with evolutionary touch, can High Evolutionary have 1 Rank I teratomorphism gained from evolutionist levels and 1 from those granted by evolutionary touch?

    Edit:

    Weaponthane Ascendant's Frenzy Teratomorphism seems weird. I mean, if is like Barbarian's rage equal to one's half of mutator level, but unless a person someone gets mutator level of 22, they will be one level short for the Greater Rage.... Unless that was the plan and by augmentations you meant Feats that affect it.

    Edit:

    Also, I do not really understand how crafting with Resin works. I mean, it says I have to produce enough resin that will go into making the item during the crafting period and that crafting fails if I can't generate enough resin, while I can generate resin as many times as my mutator level + Con Mod.

    However, how long the process of creating item takes with crafting is exactly dependant on one's skill check. I mean, in this case people with low skill checks would be able to create more stuff with less Resin mutations, since they will take longer to craft the item and thus create more resin. Unless you mean that one has to create the resin at the same day as they start. But since raw material cost is 1/3's thing price... Let's see

    For creating Masterwork Greataxe it's 320 gp. Let's say the mutator level of the person is 11 and he has two mutations of Resin. In one day he should be able to fulfill the raw material cost. However there are still checks to be made to create it later.

    Now, if the assumption that during the whole crafting the crafter creates more Resin, it gets odd. Let's assume he has level 3 and one Resin mutation, along with Craft(Weaponsmithing) 1 and he wants to create masterwork greataxe. If he kepps rolling n20s, it will take him 10 x 3 days, so 30 days to create it. Let's assume he produces resin everyday, and his con is 10. He would make 3 portions of Resin each day, each worth 5 gp, so 15 gold per day to have raw materials. Since it will take him 30 days, he will easily have enough resin over time.

    The point is, the fact that not being able to produce enough resin will make it impossible to create weapon is kind off odd, since the worse a person is at it, the longer it will take and the more resin they will produce.
    Last edited by Yasahiro; 2014-07-27 at 11:45 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    Draken, none of your PrCs for this class have their tables fixxed. Just thought you would want to know.
    I will fix those soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasahiro View Post
    That reminded me. The Latent Teratomorphs in High Evolutionary are limited to a person having one LATENT teratomorphism, right? Like, since he can give himself mutations with evolutionary touch, can High Evolutionary have 1 Rank I teratomorphism gained from evolutionist levels and 1 from those granted by evolutionary touch?
    One Latent Teratomorphism, yes. The ability simply ignores any sources of teratomorphisms other than a High Evolutionary's Evolutionary Touch.

    Edit:

    Weaponthane Ascendant's Frenzy Teratomorphism seems weird. I mean, if is like Barbarian's rage equal to one's half of mutator level, but unless a person someone gets mutator level of 22, they will be one level short for the Greater Rage.... Unless that was the plan and by augmentations you meant Feats that affect it.
    Not my work, I am afraid.

    Edit:

    Also, I do not really understand how crafting with Resin works. I mean, it says I have to produce enough resin that will go into making the item during the crafting period and that crafting fails if I can't generate enough resin, while I can generate resin as many times as my mutator level + Con Mod.

    However, how long the process of creating item takes with crafting is exactly dependant on one's skill check. I mean, in this case people with low skill checks would be able to create more stuff with less Resin mutations, since they will take longer to craft the item and thus create more resin. Unless you mean that one has to create the resin at the same day as they start. But since raw material cost is 1/3's thing price... Let's see

    For creating Masterwork Greataxe it's 320 gp. Let's say the mutator level of the person is 11 and he has two mutations of Resin. In one day he should be able to fulfill the raw material cost. However there are still checks to be made to create it later.

    Now, if the assumption that during the whole crafting the crafter creates more Resin, it gets odd. Let's assume he has level 3 and one Resin mutation, along with Craft(Weaponsmithing) 1 and he wants to create masterwork greataxe. If he kepps rolling n20s, it will take him 10 x 3 days, so 30 days to create it. Let's assume he produces resin everyday, and his con is 10. He would make 3 portions of Resin each day, each worth 5 gp, so 15 gold per day to have raw materials. Since it will take him 30 days, he will easily have enough resin over time.

    The point is, the fact that not being able to produce enough resin will make it impossible to create weapon is kind off odd, since the worse a person is at it, the longer it will take and the more resin they will produce.
    That limit is more tied to the hard-set creation times of Magic Items (for the Resin Mastercrafter) and certain massive building projects (ships, buildings) than for the more commonplace, relatively cheap gear, masterwork or not. It is quite honestly only meant to matter when working on a scale of tens of thousands of gold pieces.
    Last edited by Draken; 2014-07-28 at 12:38 AM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    That limit is more tied to the hard-set creation times of Magic Items (for the Resin Mastercrafter) and certain massive building projects (ships, buildings) than for the more commonplace, relatively cheap gear, masterwork or not. It is quite honestly only meant to matter when working on a scale of tens of thousands of gold pieces.
    I am afraid I do not understand. What are the hard-set creation times, then? Can I get some examples, like building a small house maybe?
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasahiro View Post
    I am afraid I do not understand. What are the hard-set creation times, then? Can I get some examples, like building a small house maybe?
    Most magic items require 1 day to craft/enhance for every 1000 gp of market value, rounded up. For cheap magic items this means 1 day, but enhancing a +5 vorpal weapon would take 200 days. Not sure about buildings though.

    I wonder if it wouldn't interact badly with things that accelerate the creation of magic items, such as Efficient Item Creation (an epic feat, but still). But then I don't think evolutionist has an epic progression, does it?

    I have a question myself. The Defile teratomorphism (from the Ancient mutation list) says that your taint still affects your appearance. Does this mean you still roll for symptoms? If yes, do you get the benefits from them (since many symptoms have both benefits and penalties)? I suppose you could just choose the Internal Corruption symptom so your taint is invisible as long as you don't get cut in half?
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Most magic items require 1 day to craft/enhance for every 1000 gp of market value, rounded up. For cheap magic items this means 1 day, but enhancing a +5 vorpal weapon would take 200 days. Not sure about buildings though.

    I wonder if it wouldn't interact badly with things that accelerate the creation of magic items, such as Efficient Item Creation (an epic feat, but still). But then I don't think evolutionist has an epic progression, does it?
    But then the problem is that the cheapest magic items always need at least 1 day to craft, but they also need half of their cost in the raw materials to create them. So a 1000 gp magical item would need 500 gp worth of resin.

    If a person has one resin mutation and level 20 of evolutionist and con 12, their resin is worth 5 gp and they can make 21 of it, so 105 gp worth of resin in a day. If they have two mutations, their resin is worth 10 gp each portion, so it is 210 gp. Three mutations make it 15 gp and it would be 325 gp. A person would need at least 5 mutations and mutator level combined with Con modifier to be at least 20 to be able to craft the cheapest magical items. This is why it seems odd to me.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasahiro View Post
    But then the problem is that the cheapest magic items always need at least 1 day to craft, but they also need half of their cost in the raw materials to create them. So a 1000 gp magical item would need 500 gp worth of resin.

    If a person has one resin mutation and level 20 of evolutionist and con 12, their resin is worth 5 gp and they can make 21 of it, so 105 gp worth of resin in a day. If they have two mutations, their resin is worth 10 gp each portion, so it is 210 gp. Three mutations make it 15 gp and it would be 325 gp. A person would need at least 5 mutations and mutator level combined with Con modifier to be at least 20 to be able to craft the cheapest magical items. This is why it seems odd to me.
    You can only craft magic items with the Resin Mastercrafter PrC which grants extra instances of the mutation beyond the normal cap. And Evo is a very constitution centric class, if you have a con of 12 as a resin-using evo, quite simply you are doing it wrong.

    Also crafting (magic crafting anyway) is POWERFUL. And the evolutionist quite literally poops money for it, you can't be a crafter with the most half-assed dabbling possible (one mutation and substandard constitution, please). It takes actual dedication.
    Last edited by Draken; 2014-07-28 at 12:07 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Hmm. With all this talk of the class, I got a question myself.

    Construct Mutation Force Barrier. Since this doesn't actually provide a shield, just the AC bonus and etc; I'm Assuming you cannot shield bash with it.

    But; it could still provide a shield bonus (and cover), even if the Character behind it used a shield right?
    The Physical Shield just wouldn't be providing the Shield Bonus (Since likely, the Mutation would be higher).
    This would open up the character to being able to shield bash, especially without losing Shield AC, along with just doing shield enchantments towards the Weapon Side of things (Shield Spikes).


    I'm not crazy and getting this backwards am I?

    (I Ask; because there is a Pathfinder 3rd party class I would LOVE to Gestalt this with; Specifically the Warder Class from Dreamscarred press. I'd be a defensive monster! Mwahaha!)

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenMists View Post
    Hmm. With all this talk of the class, I got a question myself.

    Construct Mutation Force Barrier. Since this doesn't actually provide a shield, just the AC bonus and etc; I'm Assuming you cannot shield bash with it.

    But; it could still provide a shield bonus (and cover), even if the Character behind it used a shield right?
    The Physical Shield just wouldn't be providing the Shield Bonus (Since likely, the Mutation would be higher).
    This would open up the character to being able to shield bash, especially without losing Shield AC, along with just doing shield enchantments towards the Weapon Side of things (Shield Spikes).


    I'm not crazy and getting this backwards am I?

    (I Ask; because there is a Pathfinder 3rd party class I would LOVE to Gestalt this with; Specifically the Warder Class from Dreamscarred press. I'd be a defensive monster! Mwahaha!)
    Nothing stops you from wielding a shield while having force barrier active. You would just not get the defensive bonus, indeed.

    Heck, nothing stops you from having plating, adamantine body, and wearing a full plate. The full plate won't do a thing, but nothing stops you from wearing it.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Heck, nothing stops you from having plating, adamantine body, and wearing a full plate. The full plate won't do a thing, but nothing stops you from wearing it.
    If by adamantine body, you mean the warforged feat, then the rules explicitly stop you from wearing full plate. Warforged with composit plating (even if its adamantine) can't wear armor or robes.

    If by adamantine body, you mean some evolutionist thing I forgot about/missed, the could you please direct me towards it?

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    You missed this question:
    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    I have a question myself. The Defile teratomorphism (from the Ancient mutation list) says that your taint still affects your appearance. Does this mean you still roll for symptoms? If yes, do you get the benefits from them (since many symptoms have both benefits and penalties)? I suppose you could just choose the Internal Corruption symptom so your taint is invisible as long as you don't get cut in half?
    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!")
    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    So the real question is, what is a Ling?

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    If by adamantine body, you mean the warforged feat, then the rules explicitly stop you from wearing full plate. Warforged with composit plating (even if its adamantine) can't wear armor or robes.

    If by adamantine body, you mean some evolutionist thing I forgot about/missed, the could you please direct me towards it?
    I mean the feat and the armor limitation is actually tied to the composite plating special ability of the warforged. If you have the feat (by being an evo with plating) but not the composite plating (by not being warforged), you can still wear armor, even if it won't do a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    You missed this question:
    You still roll for symptoms and you still gain the benefits. You just don't get the negatives. It is an horrific, evil win-win.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    If by adamantine body, you mean the warforged feat, then the rules explicitly stop you from wearing full plate. Warforged with composit plating (even if its adamantine) can't wear armor or robes.

    If by adamantine body, you mean some evolutionist thing I forgot about/missed, the could you please direct me towards it?
    http://dndtools.eu/feats/monster-man...tine-body--33/

    It doesn't actually stop you from wearing armor at all.

    http://dndtools.eu/races/eberron-cam...warforged--45/

    Being a warforged does.

    Just as Draken has said, but with references. However, the reason it stops you from wearing armor or robes is that it takes up the "chest" body slot. Technically, iirc, you can wear more things in the same slot, but only the first you put on will have any effect. For armor, it's pretty obvious you can't wear two suits of armor at once. It wouldn't fit. But for Warforged, I guess it would fit. So I guess you *could* wear more armor. I mean, the rules don't alter physics in a way that would prevent it.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Also crafting (magic crafting anyway) is POWERFUL. And the evolutionist quite literally poops money for it, you can't be a crafter with the most half-assed dabbling possible (one mutation and substandard constitution, please). It takes actual dedication.
    What if I am trying to create a wall or a house out of Resin without the Improved Resin from master crafter?

    Like I said, the longer I take, then the more resin I can poop out to fill cost of raw materials. And there is no hard limit regarding how long you take to make that wall.


    Can one have a weapon made out of Empowered Resin +5, enhance it with +1 magically to be able to put on enchantments, with having +9 worth of enchantments to enjoy left, while also enjoying +5 enhancement from Empowered Resin?

    You also missed two further questions

    Regarding Jet
    I meant to ask if it is limited or affected same way as Run is. Because in Heavy Armor, one can only run up to triple their speed. So would this lower the multiplier on the Jet's Super run?
    Regarding Change Shape
    No, see, I meant it like... Let's say one's original type was humanoid and they get Change Shape Mutation. So they would look human, right? But what if, once they got Construct Ascendance, they started attaching Warforged Components to themselves? They clearly were not part of one's original body and type.
    Also, I was going to say that the Garden option for the grove seems weak if Grove has 1 mile radius but then I remembered that this food can be harvested everyday. And nothing stops evolutionist from planting normal crops.

    Speaking of planting, can Evolutionist use his Budding creation in his grove to grow Apple tree that will give fruits? If one has Artificial Creation feat, can they grow a giant piece of meat? Like, can a person eat it and sustain themselves on it?

    If evolutionist has Communion Option for the grove, would tunnels and caves that are in his grove also be within limits of what he can get info about and things within it?

    Edit: Does Improved Grab apply to one group of natural weapons or just one natural weapon? If I have 2 claws, do I have to choose which claw does it? Since the description is unclear
    Last edited by Yasahiro; 2014-07-29 at 07:57 AM.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasahiro View Post
    What if I am trying to create a wall or a house out of Resin without the Improved Resin from master crafter?

    Like I said, the longer I take, then the more resin I can poop out to fill cost of raw materials. And there is no hard limit regarding how long you take to make that wall.
    Building Structures has timetables and costs laid out in the Stronghold Builder's Handbook. Even building 'simple' walls takes one week for every 10,000 gp of the cost. And simple masonry, enough to encircle a 20 ft. x 20 ft. area costs 2,500 gp. Buildings are not cheap.


    Can one have a weapon made out of Empowered Resin +5, enhance it with +1 magically to be able to put on enchantments, with having +9 worth of enchantments to enjoy left, while also enjoying +5 enhancement from Empowered Resin?
    Yes, this is pretty much the simplest 'trick' in the book, also an optimization oldie. But usually it involves making the +1/+9 enchants weapon and then applying the Magic Weapon spell to it. This cuts the middleman with the spell.

    You also missed two further questions

    Regarding Jet
    Jet is not called out as a run action and is not hindered by armor.


    Regarding Change Shape
    Change shape will not hide your equipment, which is what warforged components are.


    Also, I was going to say that the Garden option for the grove seems weak if Grove has 1 mile radius but then I remembered that this food can be harvested everyday. And nothing stops evolutionist from planting normal crops.

    Speaking of planting, can Evolutionist use his Budding creation in his grove to grow Apple tree that will give fruits? If one has Artificial Creation feat, can they grow a giant piece of meat? Like, can a person eat it and sustain themselves on it?
    Yes to everything.

    If evolutionist has Communion Option for the grove, would tunnels and caves that are in his grove also be within limits of what he can get info about and things within it?
    Yep.

    Edit: Does Improved Grab apply to one group of natural weapons or just one natural weapon? If I have 2 claws, do I have to choose which claw does it? Since the description is unclear
    Weapon groups. Both claws, all tentacles, every spine, you name it.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Hey Draken, I've lurked around homebrew for a while, and I really like this class. After some convincing of the group I'm finally going to be able to try an evolutionist. There's only one problem: My group and I are playing pathfinder, but they don't trust me to make the changes to the class that would be required to port it over.

    So if you wouldn't mind, could you tell me the likelihood of the evolutionist being converted to pathfinder?
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by StabbityRabbit View Post
    Hey Draken, I've lurked around homebrew for a while, and I really like this class. After some convincing of the group I'm finally going to be able to try an evolutionist. There's only one problem: My group and I are playing pathfinder, but they don't trust me to make the changes to the class that would be required to port it over.

    So if you wouldn't mind, could you tell me the likelihood of the evolutionist being converted to pathfinder?
    I personally don't know pathfinder all that well so that is very unlikely.

    From what I do know, however, the class doesn't really need a whole lot of translation to the other system. The skill list is dynamic, the only feat you get is unchanged (Improved Unarmed Strike). Spell-like abilities and psionic powers follow a set list belonging to classes that I believe exist in Pathfinder anyway. Underlying mechanical differences such as the CMB can very easily be used by referring to the baseline rules whenever the 3.5-aimed wording of the class says otherwise (size bonuses, for instance).

    That is what I know, I am afraid.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    I personally don't know pathfinder all that well so that is very unlikely.

    From what I do know, however, the class doesn't really need a whole lot of translation to the other system. The skill list is dynamic, the only feat you get is unchanged (Improved Unarmed Strike). Spell-like abilities and psionic powers follow a set list belonging to classes that I believe exist in Pathfinder anyway. Underlying mechanical differences such as the CMB can very easily be used by referring to the baseline rules whenever the 3.5-aimed wording of the class says otherwise (size bonuses, for instance).

    That is what I know, I am afraid.
    Thanks.

    I know enough about pathfinder to be able to port it over. Just knock off a few bits here and there, and use a different book for reference. The problem lies in the fact that they don't want me to alter the class in any way.

    Thanks again, Draken.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by StabbityRabbit View Post
    Thanks.

    I know enough about pathfinder to be able to port it over. Just knock off a few bits here and there, and use a different book for reference. The problem lies in the fact that they don't want me to alter the class in any way.

    Thanks again, Draken.
    The only real change comes when you get something that gives a Skill Bonus that doesn't exist in pathfinder.

    Ex: Chameleon: Instead of the Move Silently, Hide and Disguise, it would be Stealth and Disguise

    or if a feat it gives doesn't exist, change it to a similar one or just call the mutation off.

    Either way; if you run into any problems, there is always the Option of DM Fiat: Aka. That ain't working, have a free change.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenMists View Post
    The only real change comes when you get something that gives a Skill Bonus that doesn't exist in pathfinder.

    Ex: Chameleon: Instead of the Move Silently, Hide and Disguise, it would be Stealth and Disguise

    or if a feat it gives doesn't exist, change it to a similar one or just call the mutation off.

    Either way; if you run into any problems, there is always the Option of DM Fiat: Aka. That ain't working, have a free change.
    I get that, but my group does not want any changes to the class that didn't come from the designer.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

    Again, there shouldn't be any outstanding issues.

    Although, some things will require that your group accept 3.5 material due to the simple fact that I did not describe the effects in depth (either because they are simply too extensive or not OGL), notable examples would be Heart of the Elements [Fire] and [Water], which give the Heat/Cold Endurance feats, the Sign teratomorphism, which is unusable if you lack Elder Evils and the Extrude Docent teratomorphism, also unusable without Eberron books.

    Actually let me put down a small list for your convenience.

    Pathfinder changes:
    Class Chassis:
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    No changes.


    Base Teratomorphisms:
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    Flight: Disregard maneuverability. Taking the flight t-morph when you already have the ability to fly gives +20 to move speed and a +2 bonus to Fly skill checks.

    Extra Head I & II: Change skill bonus to Perception.


    Base Mutations:
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    Innate
    No changes.

    Basic
    Chameleonic: Bonus to Stealth and Disguise checks.

    Extra Senses: Bonus to Perception checks.

    Flexible Joints: Acrobatics, Escape Artist and Sleight of Hand checks.

    Vestigial Wings: +2 bonus to Fly skill checks instead of maneuverability increase.

    Extraordinaire:
    No changes.

    Supernatural:
    No changes.

    Psi-like:
    No changes.

    Spell-like:
    No changes.


    Construct list:
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    Teratomorphs:
    No changes.

    Mutations
    No changes.



    Elemental list:
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    Teratomorphs:
    No changes.

    Mutations
    No changes.



    Plant list:
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    Teratomorphs:
    Roots: Apply the +2 bonus to all Combat Maneuver Defense rolls.


    Mutations
    Fragrance: Bonus to be detected by scented creatures applies to Perception and Survival.


    Outsider list:
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    [B]Teratomorphs:
    No changes.

    Mutations
    No changes.



    Undead list:
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    [B]Teratomorphs:
    No changes.

    Mutations
    No changes.


    Ancient list:
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    [B]Teratomorphs:
    Karish: Class skills for the Karish are Climb, Fly, Jump, Perception, Stealth, Survival and Swim.

    Mutations
    No changes.


    Well. That was easy!
    Last edited by Draken; 2014-08-01 at 11:17 AM.
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