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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Hanuman's Avatar

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Level comparisons for Half-cast advancement such as bard, half psi such as psiwar, then comparisons for my pool min, max and average.

    Last one is mutations/level, then what teratomorph adds.


    Here's a good question:
    Is there any mutator ability that is dangerous to balance in combination with other effects that are not granted by the mutator?
    Last edited by Hanuman; 2012-09-21 at 11:34 PM.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Barring Gestalt, which throws the chassis limitations out of whack, nothing I can think of. Most abilities the evolutionist would have to multiclass to acquire are either deep down into other classes (meaning you probably dipped evo) or more exotic things that you probably don't build around, just accept as perks (or... Well... Whole mechanics of other classes, I guess).
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Funny you should say that

    Anything scream danger when mashed together with other class abilities or other class mechanics? I'm working a masher into draft right now.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman View Post
    Funny you should say that

    Anything scream danger when mashed together with other class abilities or other class mechanics? I'm working a masher into draft right now.
    Pounce and Rake are sufficient multipliers for any charging build. Any other classes added to those for an ubercharger are utterly excessive.

    Granted most classes that provide bonuses to charging ('sup Cavalier) are utterly excessive in their lonesome.
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Two potential feats:

    Awesome Bash
    Prerequisites: Awesome Blow, Size Large or larger, Slam natural attack, Bash Mutation
    Benefit: You may use the Bash ability and Awesome Blow as part of the same full-round action attack. If you do so, your Awesome Blow feat treats you as one size category larger for each iteration of the Bash mutation you have.

    Ruinous Throw
    Prerequisites: Awesome Bash, Rock Throwing mutation
    Benefit: When you knock an enemy back using Flinging Throw, if the enemy could land in a space containing another target, you may use the flung enemy as a Rock Throw, making an attack roll and dealing damage as normal.
    Last edited by Gideon Falcon; 2012-09-22 at 12:02 PM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    Two potential feats:

    Flinging Blow
    Prerequisites: Awesome Blow, Size Large or larger, Slam natural attack, Bash Mutation
    Benefit: When using the Bash ability, your Awesome Blow feat treats you as one size category larger for each iteration of the Bash mutation you have.

    Ruinous Throw
    Prerequisites: Flinging Blow, Rock Throwing mutation
    Benefit: When you knock an enemy back using Flinging Throw, if the enemy could land in a space containing another target, you may use the flung enemy as a Rock Throw, making an attack roll and dealing damage as normal.
    First feat doesn't work. Delivering an Awesome Blow is a standard action and Bashing is a Full Round action (even if you have an extra standard action you are still performing separate actions).
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Ah, I see. Editing now...
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    That feat remains objectively inferior to Knockback (RoS, pg. 142), which does essentially the same for... Well, one less feat. Also more accessible prerequisites.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    is this home brew? if not could u give me which book it is in? cus if it isn't home brew i could use it in a friends campaign

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    (Gaming>Homebrew Design)^(It is illegal and against forum rules to post whole sections of book material) = This is homebrew.
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    ah, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the top of the thread honestly. Maybe if I show him it, I'll be able to use it for a later character. Worth a shot huh?

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by xenosus View Post
    ah, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the top of the thread honestly. Maybe if I show him it, I'll be able to use it for a later character. Worth a shot huh?
    Well, seeing as this is the homebrew section of the board, you can reasonably assume that everything you see here is homebrew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
    Bloody Mess: The gift that keeps on gibbing.
    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by xenosus View Post
    ah, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the top of the thread honestly. Maybe if I show him it, I'll be able to use it for a later character. Worth a shot huh?
    The sooner you can break your party into the wonderful world of (well made) homebrew, the better.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    For future prestige classes you can do, why not make a PrC for Evolutionist/Xenoalchemist, with Kellus' absolutely brilliant graft system?
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    For future prestige classes you can do, why not make a PrC for Evolutionist/Xenoalchemist, with Kellus' absolutely brilliant graft system?
    Man, add in gramarie, have circuits that control chassi who take levels in evolutionist a la dreamcatchers, then get a DM to allow mutations to be harvested as grafts...


  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    For future prestige classes you can do, why not make a PrC for Evolutionist/Xenoalchemist, with Kellus' absolutely brilliant graft system?
    I have been trying to think of good mechanics for this but, like my attempt to go for a Blood King PrC, it tends to get excessive very quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    Man, add in gramarie, have circuits that control chassi who take levels in evolutionist a la dreamcatchers, then get a DM to allow mutations to be harvested as grafts...

    Harvesting mutations for grafts is pretty much all that a xenobiologist-evolutionist would get to do that is unique. For the most part, Gramarie is completely unrelated to the playstyle that the evolutionist class offers (which is closer to the Harrowed and the Ozodrin, between which there are primarily thematic differences), so there is very little overlap zone to play with.

    Very little does not mean no overlap that can be used. Said overlap happens to exist in BIOY 101 and the Budding Creation mutation (as well as its builder ups), a PrC based on these two classes would wind up as a sort of Zerg-GLaDOS thing, most likely. But it will take very long to come out since it would be exceedingly complex. And focus on base-building, somewhat.
    Last edited by Draken; 2012-09-28 at 07:59 AM.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    For the most part, Gramarie is completely unrelated to the playstyle that the evolutionist class offers (which is closer to the Harrowed and the Ozodrin, between which there are primarily thematic differences), so there is very little overlap zone to play with.

    Very little does not mean no overlap that can be used. Said overlap happens to exist in BIOY 101 and the Budding Creation mutation (as well as its builder ups), a PrC based on these two classes would wind up as a sort of Zerg-GLaDOS thing, most likely. But it will take very long to come out since it would be exceedingly complex. And focus on base-building, somewhat.
    Ooh, that sounds like it would be awesome.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Relevant to the evolotionist:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKLK9zFiVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Very little does not mean no overlap that can be used. Said overlap happens to exist in BIOY 101 and the Budding Creation mutation (as well as its builder ups), a PrC based on these two classes would wind up as a sort of Zerg-GLaDOS thing, most likely. But it will take very long to come out since it would be exceedingly complex. And focus on base-building, somewhat.
    PrCs are plain gross to me, that's why I'm trying to make a class that never has to go into one.
    Last edited by Hanuman; 2012-09-28 at 10:06 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    This class is awesome...maybe a bit too much so? If I ever get to play pnp, I want to run this.

    So here's my attempt at making one playable from 1 to 10.
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    Goals: Batman-style character - the ability to do a pretty good amount of damage while being enough of a generalist to be useful in any situation.... combined with being unreasonably hard to kill. There's nothing wrong with being an Eldritch Abomination as long as you're Good-aligned, right?

    Resources: D20SRD and this thread
    Base: Human, 28pb
    I was originally thinking halfling would be cool (more motivation to adapt/grow better) but the weak base means that the evolutionist should start with every advantage he can get

    STR 14
    DEX 15
    CON 12
    INT 12
    WIS 14
    CHA 8

    Skills invested in: Can max out 4 skills... distributing points into 4 general categories. %s give approximate % of the points distributed to each category.
    Mobility: 1/5
    Balance (50%)
    Escape artist (50%)

    Knowledge: 1/5
    Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 33%
    Knowledge (Arcana) 33%
    Knowledge (Nature) 33%

    Stealth: 1/5
    Hide+MS (50%)

    Perception: 1/5
    Listen (maxed)

    Levels 1-5:
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    I'm assuming you can choose mutations & feats in whichever order you want, to both qualify for & select a feat at the same level.
    L1
    Feat: Blind Fight
    Feat: Improved Toughness
    Improved Unarmed Strike
    Monster Sage
    Mutations (5):
    Evolve Resilience
    Adherent Hands (1st)
    Natural Armor +2
    Tentacle x2, bludge
    Powerful Form

    L2
    Mutations (3):
    Adherent hands (2nd)
    Evolve Combat Instinct (1st)
    Web
    Teratomorph I: Dire Body

    L3
    Feat: Multiattack
    Mutations (3):
    Tentacle x2, slash
    Evolve Combat Instinct

    L4 The really good stuff starts
    Stat: STR+1
    Mutations:
    Fast Healing (1st)
    Damage Reduction
    Extra Arms

    L5
    Mutations:
    Pounce
    Evolve Combat Instinct (3rd)
    Natural Armor (2nd)
    Teratomorph 2:
    Amorphous 1

    Cumuluative Mutation effects:
    +1 HP/level
    Climb speed 10'
    +1 to-hit
    +3 BAB
    +5 Natural Armor
    +1 STR, +1 on STR checks
    Tentacle x2, bludge, 1d4
    Tentacle x2, slash, 1d4
    Intimidate check bonus equal to Mutator level
    Web x3/day
    Fast Healing 1
    DR 3/Magic
    2 extra arms
    +4 to escape artist checks, +1 size category grappling, -1 size category for fitting in small spaces
    25% chance to ignore precision damage
    Pounce

    Stats:
    STR 16
    DEX 15
    CON 12
    INT 12
    WIS 14
    CHA 8

    Naked stats except for handaxes:
    BAB 5
    Fort 2
    Will 3
    Reflex 2
    AC 17
    4 arms, AB 0/-4/-4/-4, handaxes, 1d6+3, 1d6+1 x 3
    2 tentacles, slash, AB 8 1d4+3 slash
    2 tentacles, slash, AB 6 1d4+1 bludge

    The ability to climb straight up walls, move 35' per round, charge 70+' per round, and full attack (6 attacks) at the end of a charge

    Levels 5-10
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    L6
    Feat: Multiweapon Fighting [reduces penalty to -4/-4, or -2/-2 if light weapons are used]
    Mutations:
    Elemental Resistance (acid)
    Elemental attack (acid 1d6, slash tentacles)
    Evolve Fortitude [save +2]

    L7
    Mutations:
    Evolve Combat Instinct (4th)
    Change Shape
    Energy Resistance: Fire [to avoid the "kill it with fire" types]

    L8
    Stat: Strength
    Mutations:
    Elemental attack (fire 1d6, bludge tentacles)
    Dimension Door
    Fast Healing (2nd)
    Teratomorph 3:
    Regeneration 1

    L9
    Feat: Stunning Blow
    Mutations:
    Evolve Combat Instinct (5th)
    Slime
    Natural Invisibility

    L10
    Mutations:
    Warped Visage
    Paralysis (tentacle set 1)
    Paralysis (tentacle set 2)
    Mutant Ascendancy: Magical Beast [all natural weapons are now enhanced at 1/4 mutator level]

    Cumulative:
    STR 17
    DEX 15
    CON 12
    INT 12
    WIS 14
    CHA 8

    BAB 10, and a +1 to hit from mutations

    120hp
    Fort 6
    Will 5
    Reflex 5
    AC 17, 5% miss chance, dr 3/magic, resist 5 damage, acid & fire

    4 arms, AB 9/4/9/9/9, handaxes, 1d6+3 x2, 1d6+1 x 3
    2 tentacles, slash, AB 13 1d4+5 slash, 1d6 acid, paralysis
    2 tentacles, slash, AB 11 1d4+3 bludge, 1d6 fire, paralysis

    Fast healing 4, regeneration
    Invisibility & Dimension door once every 5 rounds
    10' climb speed
    35' base speed
    Pounce
    Slime (1d6 damage guard)
    Web 3x/day
    +4 to escape artist checks, +1 size category grappling, -1 size category for fitting in small spaces
    25% chance to ignore precision damage


    Looking at this list I'm thinking this is a Tier 1-2 class... beats out all of the non-magic users except for skill uses like B&E or being the party face, and it has a reasonably good chance of giving even wizards a lot of trouble due to the ability to go invisible, dimension door, grapple, paralyze, etc. I wasn't even optimizing for that - I just wanted to have 9 attacks per round :-P

    It's game over for just about anything vs. this guy in a grapple.
    Last edited by J-H; 2012-09-29 at 02:41 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    It is a high tier 3 to lower tier 2 (only reaches tier 2 lategame, however), actually. The evolutionist doesn't really have the raw power to barge into tier 2 and it certainly doesn't have what it takes to go into tier 1. Grappling is one of the best tactics for him (or for anyone who has abilities to boost it, really, grapple is very powerful), but it shorts out when FoM hits the table (until you grab a dispel SL or PL anyway, but that only works for the spell).

    I made the evolutionist to be easy to hit a certain functionality floor (read: the class auto-optimizes to a certain degree, much like initiators do) and worked to leave as few "traps" as I could.

    Your build is actually kind of on the weak side. The attack routine is poorly optimized (the attack modifiers are wrong, by the way) and the damage output is very low for 10th level (but my opinions may be skewed due to the nature of the campaign I currently play in). I am quite positive that a binder of the same level can do most of what was listed. The defenses are objectively inferior to what most classes of the same level would be boasting.

    Last but not least, you misconsidered the interaction of mutations. Two pairs of tentacles act as a single set of natural weapons for all intents and purposes, even if they are gained at separate levels.

    The only thing there that won't be found anywhere else is the fast healing, but that poses a very minor combat advantage. Combined with dimension door and invisibility it could make a great skirmisher type, but that is not as functional a strategy for PCs as it is for NPCs, and even then, again, the damage is sorely lacking and suffers grievously from any applicable DR or energy resistance too).
    Last edited by Draken; 2012-09-29 at 05:10 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    I'm not very familiar with most of the non-OGL content, sorry. Compared to the PHB type classes it's pretty powerful. Keep in mind that the numbers I was giving at level 10 were gearless - add some +4 gear, resistance rings, armor, magic weapons, etc., and he's in good shape.

    Here's why I thought each set of tentacles was treated as different:
    If the evolutionist has multiple sets of the same natural weapon, only one group (one bite, one pair of claws, etc) can be the primary.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by J-H View Post
    I'm not very familiar with most of the non-OGL content, sorry. Compared to the PHB type classes it's pretty powerful. Keep in mind that the numbers I was giving at level 10 were gearless - add some +4 gear, resistance rings, armor, magic weapons, etc., and he's in good shape.

    Here's why I thought each set of tentacles was treated as different:
    Uh. Glaring mistake. Fixed.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    How about grapple in pathfinder's CMB/CMD? Is it still lordly?

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    When using the Force Barrier construct mutation, how long after taking the standard action does the shield bonus last?
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    It remains up for as long as you like. Which admitedly makes the action to turn it on silly, since there is absolutely no reason to ever turn it off.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    It's removed with an AMF or anything that counters Su, so you'd need to raise shield again after it's dropped.

    Heh, reminds me of EMP and protoss kinda.
    Last edited by Hanuman; 2012-09-30 at 09:47 PM.

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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Most things that counter Su abilities only suppress them, meaning they automatically resume when the effect ends.

    Also, an idea for a Plant mutation:

    Psionic Creation [Psi]
    Prerequisites: Verdant Servant mutation, any Psi-like ability
    Benefit: You may select Psi-like ability options from the Astral Construct menus when creating your Verdant Servants.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    Most things that counter Su abilities only suppress them, meaning they automatically resume when the effect ends.

    Also, an idea for a Plant mutation:

    Psionic Creation [Psi]
    Prerequisites: Verdant Servant mutation, any Psi-like ability
    Benefit: You may select Psi-like ability options from the Astral Construct menus when creating your Verdant Servants.
    Verdant Servant doesn't allow those abilities explicitly so that it has some form of disadvantage over Astral Construct.
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Is there a mutation to gain minions? I'd suggest this one :

    Call of the Master
    Prerequisite: Mutator level 6.
    Ability Score: None
    Benefit: Choose a creature with an intelligence score under 3 and no more than 2 HD, such as ravens or zombies. You can control up to 4 HD of these creatures. They will come to you spontaneously and will obey your commands in the limits of their Intelligence score. If they die, others will take their place.
    Further Mutations: Every time this mutation is taken, you can control 4 more HD of creatures. The character does not have to choose the same creature again. This mutation can be taken once per two mutator levels.
    I know you said no to this already, but I can't get the image of a plant mutator who looks like a tree walking around with attack pigeons in his "branches." I want to see something like this put in just for this image.
    If I've helped you out, please check out some my homebrew and post in the threads. Thank you.
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  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]

    ^
    How quickly are they replaced? Instantly?

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