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    Default [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Raise Dead is a really neat spell.

    Way too neat. When a desperate peasant offers to trade the farm to some shady Cleric for a chance to see their loved one again, I think this is more like what they should receive.

    Baleful Resurrection
    Necromancy [Evil]
    Level: Cleric 4, Dread Necromancer 4
    Components: V, S, M, DF
    Casting Time: 1 hour
    Range: Touch
    Target: Dead creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    ''I don't know. He just came back... wrong, somehow."

    This spell functions as the Raise Dead spell, but with a few significant differences, as outlined here.

    In addition to losing a level or point of constitution, the creature comes back to life with one of the following curses, determined randomly. If it already suffers from that curse (or has the penalties for another reason), roll again. If no curses remain, the spell fails.
    d% Curse name Curse description
    1-9 Bloody cough The creature occasionally coughs up blood, often with a horrid hacking sound. It takes a -3 penalty on Fortitude saves.
    10-18 Dead eyes Most of the color drains out of the creature's eyes, making them resemble that of a corpse. It takes a -6 penalty on Spot checks, and gains the Light Blindness trait, as a Drow.
    19-28 Dead skin The creature's skin turns pale and cold, and its sense of touch is greatly reduced. It takes a -3 penalty on Reflex saves.
    28-36 Hallucinations The creature suffers from intermittent hallucinations, causing it difficulties in differentiating figment from reality. The creature takes a -3 penalty on Will saves.
    37-45 Vengeful The creature comes back with a short temper and an overwhelming urge to avenge any wrong inflicted on it. It takes the penalties of the Grudge Keeper flaw, without gaining a feat in its place.
    46-54 Haunted The creature has brought some of the world of the dead back with it. It takes the penalties of the Haunted flaw, without gaining a feat in its place.
    55-63 Headaches The creature suffers from constant, distracting headaches. It takes a -2 penalty on Initiative checks and all intelligence-based skill checks.
    64-72 Insomnia The creature's sleep is shallow and restless, those who sleep near it may hear it cry or shout. It takes the penalties of the Insomniac flaw, without gaining a feat in its place.
    73-81 Social outcast Intelligent creatures unconsciously dislike the subject. The initial attitude of all non-Evil non-player characters towards the subject is shifted one step towards hostile, and it takes a -6 penalty on Gather Information checks.
    82-90 Taint of undeath The creature's brush with death has left it vulnerable to sacred energies. It is treated as an undead creature when caught in the area of a Turn Undead effect. However, instead of causing the creature to flee or be destroyed, a successful attempt causes it to be stunned for 1 round or for 2d4 rounds, respectively. In addition, Conjuration (Healing) spells only heal the creature of half their normal number of hit points.
    91-100 Wrong smell Nonintelligent creatures unconsciously dislike the subject. The initial response of all animals when encountering the subject is either try to flee or to attack it. It takes a -6 penalty on Handle Animal and Ride checks.
    Finally, the subject's alignment is shifted one step towards Evil. A creature who is already Evil has its aligment shifted one step towards Chaotic. A Chaotic Evil creature does not suffer a change in alignment.

    A Wish or Miracle spell can remove the creature's curse. A normal Remove Curse spell is effective only when cast by a caster of 11th level or higher. An Atonement spell can restore its original alignment (following the usual rules for the Atonement spell). The level/HD loss or Constitution loss can still not be repaired by any means.

    A creature successfully raised with this spell becomes alive and stable at -9 hit points rather than with hit points equal to its HD. Any wounds and disease symptoms repaired as part of the resurrection process are only repaired to the absolute minimum functionality required to return the creature to life. Even if the creature's hit point total is fully restored, such wounds still leave scars, unless removed with the Regenerate spell. Creatures with visible scars from this process gain a +4 bonus in Intimidate checks, but suffer a -4 penalty on Diplomacy checks.

    Material Component
    Black diamonds worth a total of least 1,000 gp.

    Special: If your game uses Taint rules, the subject additionally comes back with 1d3 points of Taint.

    Older version of this spell:
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    Baleful Resurrection
    Necromancy [Evil]
    Level: Cleric 4, Dread Necromancer 4
    Components: V, S, M, DF
    Casting Time: 1 hour
    Range: Touch
    Target: Dead creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    ''I don't know. He just came back... wrong, somehow."

    This spell functions as the Raise Dead spell, but with a few significant differences, as outlined here.

    In addition to losing a level or point of constitution, the subject loses 2 points of Charisma, and its alignment is shifted one step towards Evil. A creature who is already Evil has its aligment shifted one step towards Chaotic. A Chaotic Evil creature does not suffer a change in alignment. If the Charisma loss (or the Constitution loss, in the case of a 1st-level creature) would bring the raised creature's score down to 0, the subject is instead raised as an uncontrolled zombie, at full strength. If the creature that suffers this fate can not be raised as a zombie, the spell fails.

    A Wish or Miracle spell can repair the creature's Charisma loss, and an Atonement spell can restore its original alignment (following the usual rules for the Atonement spell). The level/HD loss or Constitution loss can still not be repaired by any means.

    A creature successfully raised with this spell becomes alive and stable at -9 hit points rather than with hit points equal to its HD. Any wounds repaired as part of the resurrection process are only repaired to the absolute minimum functionality required to return the creature to life. Even if the creature's hit point total is fully restored, such wounds still leave scars, unless removed with the Regenerate spell.

    Material Component
    Black diamonds worth a total of least 1,000 gp.


    Forced Resurrection
    Necromancy [Evil]
    Level: Cleric 6, Dread Necromancer 6
    Saving Throw: Will negates

    ''Why? Why have you brought me back?"

    This spell functions as the Baleful Resurrection spell (see above), with the exception that the subject to be raised need not be willing. This is an exception from the general rule on Bringing Back the Dead. An unwilling subject may attempt a Will save with a +5 bonus to negate the resurrection.

    A subject that successfully saves can not be the victim of a forced resurrection for a year and a day, or until it is raised (voluntarily) and killed again, whichever happens sooner.

    Fair Trade
    Necromancy
    Level: Cleric 7
    Casting Time: 6 hours

    "... and with these words, I offer you this life in place of the one that has been taken..."

    This spell functions like Resurrection, except that you are able to restore the creature to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of level (or Constitution points) or prepared spells.

    However, this increased power comes at a price. As a concluding part of the casting process, a creature with at least as many hit dice as the creature to be raised has must be sacrificed. The creature to be sacrificed must be of the same race as the creature to be raised. The creature to be sacrificed may be the caster himself, if he so desires.
    Certain creatures have special value when it comes to determining whether they have the required number of hit dice to be used in the resurrection process. These creatures are usually innocents, or of powerful bloodlines.

    This spell can only be cast at night.
    Last edited by Ernir; 2014-04-01 at 08:25 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Chilling.

    I like the idea of resurrection spells either being dangerous or being twisted somehow, either as replacements for or in addition to the standard resurrections.

    What does "harmless" mean in this context? It seems as if this spell is actually pretty harsh since it lets you not only force someone to come back to the dead but also change their personality and even cause some ability drain.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steward View Post
    Chilling.
    Mission accomplished, then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steward View Post
    I like the idea of resurrection spells either being dangerous or being twisted somehow, either as replacements for or in addition to the standard resurrections.
    I'm using it as an additional option in my RL campaign (Actually, I'm using the "psionic" version of it, this is originally from the Vancian to Psionics project in my sig). But because the first spell is both cheaper and lower level than the more effective versions, it's much easier to get access to. Hence, lots of people end up with the low-quality resurrections, and resurrection magic in general gets a bit of a bad reputation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steward View Post
    What does "harmless" mean in this context? It seems as if this spell is actually pretty harsh since it lets you not only force someone to come back to the dead but also change their personality and even cause some ability drain.
    Hmm. Harmless really doesn't apply here (it was a leftover from Raise Dead). Removed.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    i like the idea of wrong resurections, i dont think i like the charisma wounding though


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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Hi, I think the spell should be able to cast by sorceror/wizards. Even if they could cast it only at 5th level.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper42 View Post
    Hi, I think the spell should be able to cast by sorceror/wizards. Even if they could cast it only at 5th level.
    I don't think it would be a good idea to give wizards and sorcerers raise dead style spells at such a low level, even if it is harmful to the subject. It seems out of the scope of their classes.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Oh god, this needed to be made. I love it.

    I really think necromancy is one of the most poorly-done schools in d&d, but this is a step in the right direction.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond Tiny View Post
    I don't think it would be a good idea to give wizards and sorcerers raise dead style spells at such a low level, even if it is harmful to the subject. It seems out of the scope of their classes.
    i agree, resurrection magic takes a much different role and form then necromancy. I can think of legitimate reasons asto why a wizard or sorcerer could get Cure light wounds, but i cant reasonably justify them getting resurrects because resurrection magic is vastly more complicated then it would seem.


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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Why does the Dread Necromancer even bother getting Baleful Resurrection if they have Forced Resurrection at the same level?

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond Tiny View Post
    I don't think it would be a good idea to give wizards and sorcerers raise dead style spells at such a low level, even if it is harmful to the subject. It seems out of the scope of their classes.
    One way you could justify it in the context of a game world is to say that true resurrection (not just the spell of that name, but any magic can really restore a creature, body and soul, to the Material Plane) is the jealously-guarded province of the gods alone. Mortals can pretend to this power, but all of their attempts are doomed to backfire in some way, either by giving rise to unnatural undead or -- in other, tragic cases -- by permanently twisting and corrupting the spirits of those brought back to life. The fact that both spells have the Evil descriptor might play into this idea as well if you decide to use it and the spells both; since the gods refuse to sanction arcane resurrection, wizards and sorcerers must instead draw their (flawed) power from the powers of evil (either as an abstract force or directly from an entity like Asmodeus or Demogorgon).

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steward View Post
    One way you could justify it in the context of a game world is to say that true resurrection (not just the spell of that name, but any magic can really restore a creature, body and soul, to the Material Plane) is the jealously-guarded province of the gods alone. Mortals can pretend to this power, but all of their attempts are doomed to backfire in some way, either by giving rise to unnatural undead or -- in other, tragic cases -- by permanently twisting and corrupting the spirits of those brought back to life. The fact that both spells have the Evil descriptor might play into this idea as well if you decide to use it and the spells both; since the gods refuse to sanction arcane resurrection, wizards and sorcerers must instead draw their (flawed) power from the powers of evil (either as an abstract force or directly from an entity like Asmodeus or Demogorgon).
    A Necromancer, who studies biology, and specializes in making things walk again, could reasonably be believed to have a comprehensive enough knowledge of what he is doing to manually perform a resurrection, if not as well as a divine being doing it because of their more expansive and comprehensive senses. your average chump wizard would never have the capacity to weave order magic on such a large scale because they do not have as detailed of an understanding of what they are doing. sure they can figure out how to properly apply the 4 elements to reconstruct tissue, but they cant teach a soul to work limbs or to comprehend senses while they are busy working binding rituals.

    in other words, a resurrection is composed of multiple parts.
    A binding
    A (Massive) healing/restoration of order on both macro and micro scales
    A comprehensive tutorial


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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Well done. When I first read over Forced Resurrection my mind was immediately taken back to the revival of Death's Hand in Jade Empire. Cookies for anybody that remembers that part.

    A fitting take on bringing back the dead if you ask me.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    Why does the Dread Necromancer even bother getting Baleful Resurrection if they have Forced Resurrection at the same level?
    That's a copypasta error. Fix't, thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    i like the idea of wrong resurections, i dont think i like the charisma wounding though
    What would you suggest as a penalty, then? An alignment shift isn't quite enough, in my opinion, it's too easy to just... not care about alignments.

    Another idea I had was to inflict a curse upon the subject. Something like
    • The subject suffers from insomnia.
    • People unconsciously shun the subject (diplomacy/gather info penalty)
    • Animals shun the subject (handle animal/ride penalty)
    • The subject suffers from constant, distracting migraines.

    And so on. But I thought of it as an addition to the Cha penalty, not in place of it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper42 View Post
    Hi, I think the spell should be able to cast by sorceror/wizards. Even if they could cast it only at 5th level.
    I did put it on the "specialist necromancer only" in my VtP write-up, but I think this is too much of a Cleric-y spell for it to belong on the general Sorcerer/Wizard list.
    I gave it to Dread Necromancers, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyntonian View Post
    Oh god, this needed to be made. I love it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Well done. When I first read over Forced Resurrection my mind was immediately taken back to the revival of Death's Hand in Jade Empire. Cookies for anybody that remembers that part.

    A fitting take on bringing back the dead if you ask me.
    Whoo! \o/
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    You could also make a stronger version that brings the dead as a pseudonatural-like evil thing...

    (I have something like that on a game I'm DMing...)
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    And so on. But I thought of it as an addition to the Cha penalty, not in place of it...
    You could probably create a homebrew template (or just list some penalties and alterations) if you wanted to, in addition to the Cha penalty. Like, creatures brought back by this spell get the Unsettling trait, which imposes the Cha penalty as well as a penalty (stack or not stack) to Handle Animal, Ride, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and any others that would fit (for example -- Sense Motive penalty, because they're no longer fully natural creatures, they have trouble understanding natural creatures). The insomnia and the headaches could be part of it too or separate penalties. If you wanted, you could even grant a saving throw (each day?) to avoid feeling fatigued after nights of sleeplessness.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Yeah, I'd make it a penalty to some Charisma based check, not a universal ping on Charisma. A sorcerer raised in this manner should be wrong, not weaker.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    As an alternative to the Cha damage, you could apply something like how Ghostwalk ghosts still bear the wounds that killed them and suffer for it by suffering interaction skill penalties with the exception of Intimidate, which they gain the penalty as a bonus.

    Another version of this I wouldn't mind seeing (perhaps as a ritualized spell that takes hours to complete, so that it can double as a plot device for disrupting) would be a Raise or Resurrection that requires that sacrifice of an equally powerful soul to take the deceased's place in the afterlife. It doesn't necessarily have to be evil, as there are non-evil death deities that would appeal to it for maintaining the balance between life and death, but it could definitely be used for evil purposes to bring back a dead overlord or sorcerer, etc.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Another version of this I wouldn't mind seeing (perhaps as a ritualized spell that takes hours to complete, so that it can double as a plot device for disrupting) would be a Raise or Resurrection that requires that sacrifice of an equally powerful soul to take the deceased's place in the afterlife. It doesn't necessarily have to be evil, as there are non-evil death deities that would appeal to it for maintaining the balance between life and death, but it could definitely be used for evil purposes to bring back a dead overlord or sorcerer, etc.
    I am now imaging an Evil cult that fully abandons the Evil Overload list. Why?

    They need to resurrect their Master, but none of them want to give their life. So they're letting the Hero's grind until one of them is strong enough.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    "This spell functions as the Baleful Resurrection spell" - Does that mean Force Resurrect brings the target back with -9 hit points?

    I really don't like that. All you need to do is cast that 6 times per day on a captured opponent and he'll be completely useless to his allies (if they would have managed to True Rez him) since you'll kill him back over and over again, plummeting his cha and level.

    And here's the thing - you can't fix that.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    There is a save to resist, you know. With a pretty hefty bonus: +5 is nothing to sneeze at.

    And really, if you want to keep someone away from the heroes, there are easier ways to do it.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    I'm not sure if you're using Taint rules in your gaming, but this spell is just screaming for some of the twisted "Effects of Taint".

    If you are not using taint, the effects are just fluff, but with a taint score they could compensate in place of the Charisma penalty.

    But overall, these spells look completely excellent
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    I feel that if the victim dies and then receives a proper Raise Dead, or at least Resurrection, they should come back "right."

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Finals over! Time to catch up on posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Yeah, I'd make it a penalty to some Charisma based check, not a universal ping on Charisma. A sorcerer raised in this manner should be wrong, not weaker.
    That's a really good point.

    Consider changes incoming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Another version of this I wouldn't mind seeing (perhaps as a ritualized spell that takes hours to complete, so that it can double as a plot device for disrupting) would be a Raise or Resurrection that requires that sacrifice of an equally powerful soul to take the deceased's place in the afterlife. It doesn't necessarily have to be evil, as there are non-evil death deities that would appeal to it for maintaining the balance between life and death, but it could definitely be used for evil purposes to bring back a dead overlord or sorcerer, etc.
    Oooh. Ooooh. I like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    "This spell functions as the Baleful Resurrection spell" - Does that mean Force Resurrect brings the target back with -9 hit points?

    I really don't like that. All you need to do is cast that 6 times per day on a captured opponent and he'll be completely useless to his allies (if they would have managed to True Rez him) since you'll kill him back over and over again, plummeting his cha and level.

    And here's the thing - you can't fix that.
    Well, one successful save would make a rather serious dent in that plan, keeping the
    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9001 View Post
    I'm not sure if you're using Taint rules in your gaming, but this spell is just screaming for some of the twisted "Effects of Taint".

    If you are not using taint, the effects are just fluff, but with a taint score they could compensate in place of the Charisma penalty.

    But overall, these spells look completely excellent
    I don't use them, but I should probably add a "Special: If your game uses Taint, then..." clause to the spell. Good idea!
    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    I feel that if the victim dies and then receives a proper Raise Dead, or at least Resurrection, they should come back "right."
    Hmm.

    This raises a question: Should there be other non-Miracle ways to get someone "right" again?
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
    Hmm.

    This raises a question: Should there be other non-Miracle ways to get someone "right" again?
    Psychic Chirurgery? Limited Wish, with a Caster-Level check? Wish, same check with a +5 bonus? DC 25 Knowledge(Religion) check to attempt a ritual that uses a few uses of Turn Undead to reject the evil out of them and X points worth of healing from Lay On Hands to repair their essence?

    Now, what ways should there be to diagnose this condition? Do they register slightly to Detect Undead? Perhaps Sense Motive or Heal checks can acknowledge that something is going on that requires divine help.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    I added Remove Curse (with a CL requirement) as an alternate way to remove the penalty.

    But more significantly, I altered the Baleful Resurrection spell to inflict a "curse" rather than just a Charisma reduction. The "you become a zombie if your Charisma is reduced to 0" clause has also been removed.

    I also added a spell in line with Cieyrin's suggestion.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    I don't like that it shifts towards chaotic. At all. This isn't 4e, chaotic is not bad. Chaotic is chaotic.

    Other than that, it's very cool and creepy!
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    I really like baleful resurrection. I'm just wondering though, it comes online at level 7 (same level as Reincarnate) two levels before raise dead, am I really going to want to risk this rather than wait/spend a little more? If it was 3rd level, there would be whole levels where the goal question is relevant....

    Also, at the level it comes online now, I'm almost always going to get reincarnated instead. The only time I'm going to bother with this spell is if
    A.) The party has a dread necro/cleric as the only caster. And...
    B.) We're *really* out of cash or
    C.) Druidic magic items don't exist.

    As a third level spell, a lot of those calculations change.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I don't like that it shifts towards chaotic. At all. This isn't 4e, chaotic is not bad. Chaotic is chaotic.

    Other than that, it's very cool and creepy!
    I wasn't thinking about it in terms of MOAR EVIL, really. Rather that the penalty for someone who already is the controlled kind of evil gets closer to being the axe crazy kind of evil. Does that make sense?
    Quote Originally Posted by Roguenewb View Post
    I really like baleful resurrection. I'm just wondering though, it comes online at level 7 (same level as Reincarnate) two levels before raise dead, am I really going to want to risk this rather than wait/spend a little more? If it was 3rd level, there would be whole levels where the goal question is relevant....

    Also, at the level it comes online now, I'm almost always going to get reincarnated instead. The only time I'm going to bother with this spell is if
    A.) The party has a dread necro/cleric as the only caster. And...
    B.) We're *really* out of cash or
    C.) Druidic magic items don't exist.

    As a third level spell, a lot of those calculations change.
    This wasn't intended to be a good option, more like one you might sometimes just have to make do with.
    Reasons for getting someone Baleful Resurrected I thought of are...
    • You don't know what you're getting into. No ranks in Spellcraft, some shady guy in an alley offers you a really good deal on raising your friend from the dead? Oops.
    • You are really, really desperate for a raise, and don't have the time or gold to get someone to do it properly.
    • The less horrible resurrection magic has been houseruled out. ("No cheap raises here!" is one of the most common houserules I see, anyway.)
    • You're crazy/reckless/evil enough to not really care.
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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Very cool. I'm just itching to use these the next time one of my PC's croak.

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    Default Re: [3.5, spell] He came back... wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roguenewb View Post
    I really like baleful resurrection. I'm just wondering though, it comes online at level 7 (same level as Reincarnate) two levels before raise dead, am I really going to want to risk this rather than wait/spend a little more? If it was 3rd level, there would be whole levels where the goal question is relevant....

    Also, at the level it comes online now, I'm almost always going to get reincarnated instead. The only time I'm going to bother with this spell is if
    A.) The party has a dread necro/cleric as the only caster. And...
    B.) We're *really* out of cash or
    C.) Druidic magic items don't exist.

    As a third level spell, a lot of those calculations change.
    Reincarnate can be just as cruel as this, just in a different way, so I don't really see it as a problem, plus I don't know anyone who wants to be dead while the party adventures for 2 levels so they can cast a proper raise, I'd have rolled up a new character by this point.
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    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

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