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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    pretty much what the title says. but i would also like to extend the question to not only familiars, but also to animal companions and psicrystals.

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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    I'm AFB right now but I don't believe familiars do as they don't gain Hit Dice. I think animal companions do as they continue to gain HD as the druid/ranger/whatever advances in levels. Can't speak to psicrystals at all as I've never used one, but I'm guessing they are more like familiars so probably not.

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    Banned
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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Well, in a familiars case they use what the animal would have normally in skills and feats, they don't gain new feats nor skills as you level, but their HD is either equal to thier base animal or masters whichever is higher, but hp is always half their masters. And even though the skills don't progress, they get their base animal's skills or their masters whichever is higher, which is easy to abuse for always having someone to assist you on a check.

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    deuxhero's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Psicrystals, RAW, do.

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    Rubik's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Familiars don't get feats, but animal companions and psicrystals do. They all get skill points; familiars and psicrystals get their masters' ranks in skills (but not their own, except when their native ranks are higher than their masters').

    The reason why this is is because the wording on familiars states that they're treated as if they had the same number of HD as their masters for various effects (such as spells and so on), but psicrystals actually have HD due to a different wording; theirs is "as master's". Animal companions explicitly get HD (they even get bonus HD for being companions).

    Thus, animal companions and psicrystals get all the benefits of HD as they level (including feats and ability score increases); psicrystals would also get skill points for being intelligent creatures, but theirs are explicitly overridden by their masters' skill ranks.
    Last edited by Rubik; 2012-04-24 at 05:36 PM.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    ooooohhh thanks i understand now

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Just as a corollary, paladin mounts DO get extra feats, skills and, for that matter, ability score increases, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

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    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Yep - the Paladin's Special Mount gets real HD, just like an Animal Companion (only worse).
    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Imagine if the combat system was as well thought out and explained as the skill system. You could cut it down to a page and a half, monsters would be about three sentences long. Best of all you don't have to remember any tables for conditions or detail the special abilities because you've got rulings instead of rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Larkas's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Good to know, thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by cerin616 View Post
    I just like to think that Smaug's "cry of pain" was "OH GOD, MY PRETTY! YOU HIT MY RIGHT IN THE PRETTY."
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    There are exceptions.

    Basic familiars have no HD, thus no feats.

    But some improved familiars do have HD. For example, the dragon familiar feat gives you access to various wyrmlings.

    The gold dragon wyrmling starts with 8 racial HD so it can choose 3 feats and advance its skills, independantly of yours, up to that point. However it can never progress beyond that level.

    The homonculus can also be advanced (which is the whole point of having one in the first place as they can't talk, thus they can't use wands).

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    Rubik's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soranar View Post
    There are exceptions.

    Basic familiars have no HD, thus no feats.

    But some improved familiars do have HD. For example, the dragon familiar feat gives you access to various wyrmlings.

    The gold dragon wyrmling starts with 8 racial HD so it can choose 3 feats and advance its skills, independantly of yours, up to that point. However it can never progress beyond that level.

    The homonculus can also be advanced (which is the whole point of having one in the first place as they can't talk, thus they can't use wands).
    As mentioned earlier in the thread, they get the base abilities for the creature (which includes HD and related stuff). They just don't gain extras for being familiars.

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    A homunculus can't be advanced after crafting it. You have to craft it with extra HD from the start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Imagine if the combat system was as well thought out and explained as the skill system. You could cut it down to a page and a half, monsters would be about three sentences long. Best of all you don't have to remember any tables for conditions or detail the special abilities because you've got rulings instead of rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Rubik's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    A homunculus can't be advanced after crafting it. You have to craft it with extra HD from the start.
    They can if you use the homunculi in the Eberron Campaign Setting.

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: do Familiars get skill points? feats?

    Yeah, well, they can't if, uh, you don't. There.
    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Imagine if the combat system was as well thought out and explained as the skill system. You could cut it down to a page and a half, monsters would be about three sentences long. Best of all you don't have to remember any tables for conditions or detail the special abilities because you've got rulings instead of rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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