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    Default Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    First off: I'd have assumed this write-up had already been done somewhere, but site search errors out and a web search doesn't show much that's relevant. So... *shrug*

    Open Locks
    Divination
    Level: Sor/Wiz 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: One willing creature touched
    Duration: 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

    This spell grants the subject the ability to use the Open Lock skill as though trained, although it grants no ranks. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus to Open Lock checks equal to 1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).

    Spoiler: Pathfinder
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    This spell allows the subject to use the Disable Device skill to open locks, even if they possess no ranks in the skill. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus on Disable Device checks to open locks equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).

    Note: This spell replaces the knock spell for all purposes.
    Concerns: Not quite certain if the duration is reliable, and I'm pretty sure there are (traditionally) more domains this belongs in.

    Find Traps
    Divination
    Level: Clr/FvS 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: One willing creature touched
    Duration: 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

    This spell grants the subject the Trapfinding ability, as the rogue class feature. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus to Search checks made to locate traps equal to 1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).

    Spoiler: Pathfinder
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    The subject gains an insight bonus on Perception checks made to locate traps equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).


    Concerns: The level might need to go up a bit, or some other mitigation made.

    Pathfinder spell text thanks to Midwoka.

    As always -- please evaluate and critique honestly!
    Last edited by TuggyNE; 2013-09-26 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Adding fuller PF versions
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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    I'd consider boosting the bonus advancement to 1 per caster level, rather than 1 per two, for a couple of reasons. First, it's unlikely to step on a trained character's toes even at that rate. An actually trained character is going to have +3 on top of that, and is likely to have better bonuses from attributes and gear as well. Second, DCs start around 20 and just go up from there, so you'd need a +10 bonus to make this spell anything more than a really really backup option. You can get near that around level 7 with a full advancement, which is about the time you'd want to spare a spell slot for a backup utility effect like this.

    Also, you might want to have Open Locks create a set of picks for the caster. Otherwise they get stuck with an additional penalty if they're not carrying. Alternately, you could make a set of picks a required focus.
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    I prefer higher powered games, do not consider magic to be "special", and want non-casters to have similar levels of utility. If you haven't clearly said what your balance goals are, my suggestions generally reflect that. I'm pretty good with other balance points too though, so if I'm offering OP advice, let me know and I'll fix that.

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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    I think these are nice, and probably the best anyone could do within D&D other than get rid of those options for the caster. However, for the mischievous multiclassers out there, does the open locks bonuses stack with the actual skill?
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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by tarkisflux View Post
    I'd consider boosting the bonus advancement to 1 per caster level, rather than 1 per two, for a couple of reasons. First, it's unlikely to step on a trained character's toes even at that rate. An actually trained character is going to have +3 on top of that, and is likely to have better bonuses from attributes and gear as well. Second, DCs start around 20 and just go up from there, so you'd need a +10 bonus to make this spell anything more than a really really backup option. You can get near that around level 7 with a full advancement, which is about the time you'd want to spare a spell slot for a backup utility effect like this.
    See my response to Xechon below; this is an insight bonus, so it's intended to stack with skill ranks, rather than replacing them.

    As far as the 1/2 CL bonus -- I simply borrowed the existing rate from Find Traps and applied it to both of them.

    Suppose you're an ECL 4 team of skillmonkey, healer/buffer, arcane controller, and whirlpouncebarian (or some such). Arcane can presumably cast Open Locks on the skillmonkey, while buffer (if a cleric) should be able to put Find Traps. Assuming, say, a halfling rogue with Nimble Fingers and masterwork thieves' tools, you have the following:
    +2 circumstance
    +2 feat
    +7 ranks
    +2/+4 modifier (int/dex depending)
    +2 insight
    ========
    15/17 total

    Taking 20 on open locks gives you 37; further investing in skill focus, +3 competence item, or the like would enable you to open Amazing locks at DC 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by tarkisflux View Post
    Also, you might want to have Open Locks create a set of picks for the caster. Otherwise they get stuck with an additional penalty if they're not carrying. Alternately, you could make a set of picks a required focus.
    A caster planning to use this on themselves should presumably have enough foresight to have picks prepared. (And if they're using it on their rogue friend, well, the same only more so.) The focus idea could work, although I'm more or less indifferent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xechon View Post
    I think these are nice, and probably the best anyone could do within D&D other than get rid of those options for the caster. However, for the mischievous multiclassers out there, does the open locks bonuses stack with the actual skill?
    It does, because it's an insight bonus. That's the point: you can slap these on the rogue for teamwork, rather than going Cloistered Cleric with Kobold and Trickery domains and just doing it all yourself -- i.e., making the rogue cry. (Yes, this is a thing at mid- to high-op.)



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    It's occurred to me that I don't have the Beguiler spell list available; anyone know whether one or both of these spells should be on there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
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    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
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    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    this is an insight bonus, so it's intended to stack with skill ranks, rather than replacing them.
    Whoops. I seem to have read right over that. In that case I retract my suggestions, which you have appropriately disregarded anyway, because they're not really relevant. You're writing a skill buff spell, not a less obnoxious skill replacement spell, and the bonus looks fine for those purposes.
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    My skills rewrite - Making mundane a level range, not a descriptor

    Warning About My Comments:
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    I prefer higher powered games, do not consider magic to be "special", and want non-casters to have similar levels of utility. If you haven't clearly said what your balance goals are, my suggestions generally reflect that. I'm pretty good with other balance points too though, so if I'm offering OP advice, let me know and I'll fix that.

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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    I can see wands of these selling at alarming rates.
    Then again, not really different from Knock wands.
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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by tarkisflux View Post
    Whoops. I seem to have read right over that. In that case I retract my suggestions, which you have appropriately disregarded anyway, because they're not really relevant. You're writing a skill buff spell, not a less obnoxious skill replacement spell, and the bonus looks fine for those purposes.
    Yes, exactly, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloel View Post
    I can see wands of these selling at alarming rates.
    Then again, not really different from Knock wands.
    Indeed. Hopefully a bit more sane, in fact; while a rogue could well make use of these with UMD, it would be less "why did I train Open Lock again?" and more "ooh, nice buff". And similarly for other classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    Removed unnecessary Trickery domain usage from Open Locks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    The fix I adopted for Knock was one I read about on the forum somewhere a while back.

    I'll try to look up the exact wording, but basically it let the caster make a "Strength" check to burst the lock, except replacing his Strength modifier with Intellect. Hence, a totally different mechanic from either picking the lock or the original spell.

    Your version of Find Traps looks alright. I might not bother to include the max cap though. How often is this going to come up in epic play? And how often will a character be able to locate epic-level traps unless they are heavily specialized in it?
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-01-10 at 11:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Your version of Find Traps looks alright. I might not bother to include the max cap though. How often is this going to come up in epic play? And how often will a character be able to locate epic-level traps unless they are heavily specialized in it?
    It's mostly a sanity check to prevent CL-pumping shenanigans from affecting this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    There are a few things to look out for in the 3.5-to-Pathfinder conversion, beyond just Search becoming part of Perception. =) Here are the PF versions:

    "This spell allows subject to use the Disable Device skill to open locks, even if they possess no ranks in the skill. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus on Disable Device checks to open locks equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

    "The subject gains an insight bonus on Perception checks made to locate traps equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

    Disable Device ate the Open Lock skill in PF, just like Perception and Search. And anyone can find traps without Trapfinding - it just provides a bonus to the skill checks, and is needed to disable magical traps. The Alchemist class could probably get in on these spells, too, but I'm not quite savvy enough with the class to say that for sure yet...

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    Default Re: Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwoka View Post
    There are a few things to look out for in the 3.5-to-Pathfinder conversion, beyond just Search becoming part of Perception. =) Here are the PF versions:

    "This spell allows subject to use the Disable Device skill to open locks, even if they possess no ranks in the skill. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus on Disable Device checks to open locks equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

    "The subject gains an insight bonus on Perception checks made to locate traps equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

    Disable Device ate the Open Lock skill in PF, just like Perception and Search. And anyone can find traps without Trapfinding - it just provides a bonus to the skill checks, and is needed to disable magical traps. The Alchemist class could probably get in on these spells, too, but I'm not quite savvy enough with the class to say that for sure yet...
    OK, thanks. Additions made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

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