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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH, WIP]

    The Savage (and if someone comes up with a better name, I'd love to hear one; hardest part of a homebrew, I swear) is a primal warrior, one who seeks to channel the power of nature into pure physical power. Similar to the infinite variety of nature, no two savages are exactly the same.

    The Savage



    The savage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate, Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) ×4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.
    Hit Die: d12

    Level Base Attack Fort Ref Will Special
    1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Animalistic Senses, Primary Evolution
    2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Nature’s Gift
    3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Totemic Power
    4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Evolution, Nature’s Gift
    5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Totemic Power, Nature's Vigor
    6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Nature’s Gift
    7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Totemic Power
    8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Evolution, Nature’s Gift
    9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Totemic Power
    10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Nature’s Resilience, Nature’s Gift
    11th +11/+6 +7 +7 +3 Totemic Power
    12th +12/+7 +8 +8 +4 Evolution, Nature’s Gift
    13th +13/+8 +8 +8 +4 Totemic Power
    14th +14/+9 +9 +9 +4 Nature’s Gift
    15th +15/+10 +9 +9 +5 Nature’s Majesty, Totemic Power
    16th +16/+11 +10 +10 +5 Evolution, Nature’s Gift
    17th +17/+12/ +10 +10 +5 Totemic Power
    18th +18/+13/ +11 +11 +6 Nature’s Gift
    19th +19/+14/ +11 +11 +6 Totemic Power
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Nature’s Perfection, Evolution, Nature’s Gift

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Savages are proficient with all simple weapons, and with bows. They are proficient with leather, studded leather, and hide armor, but not with shields.

    Animalistic Senses (Ex): At first level, a savage gains the low-light vision and scent abilities, if he did not possess them before. He also gains the Track feat as a bonus feat.

    Primary Evolution (Ex): At first level, a savage develops a single natural weapon— claws, fangs, horns, talons, or a tail. This ability functions as an Evolution (see below), but the natural weapon chosen is a primary natural weapon, not a secondary. This choice cannot be changed later.

    Nature’s Gift (Ex): As he grows in experience, a savage finds his ties to the natural world developing in mysterious ways. At 2nd level, and every subsequent second level, he chooses an ability from the following list. Unless otherwise mentioned, you may not choose an ability more than once.

    While the exact nature of a Nature's Gift ability is not immediately obvious, there is usually a related physical mutation. For example, a savage who takes the Wild Senses ability might have his eyes and ears alter to look like those of a cat. A savage taking the Gecko's Foot ability might grow pads on the bottom of his hands and feet. The exact form of these mutations are left up to the player.

    List of Nature's Gift abilities
    Spoiler
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    • Wild Empathy— As the druid class feature, except that you may use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier
    • Speak with Animals— You may converse with animals and vermin as though you shared a common language. Prerequisite: Wild Empathy
    • Call Animals— You may call upon nearby animals to aid you in battle. As a standard action, you may let out an animalistic growl or roar. 1d4 rounds later, the animals emerge from the edges of vision, charging to your side at top speed. You may call any number of animals, but their combined hit die cannot exceed your savage level, and they must be of a type normally found in the current environment (for example, you couldn’t summon polar bears in a desert). There is no magical bond between you and the animals, but their attitude towards you is helpful, and you may give them orders and directions. The animals remain in your service until you dismiss them, or for ten minutes per point of your Wisdom modifier. After using this ability, you cannot use it again for one hour. Prerequisite: Wild Empathy, Speak with Animals
    • Empathic Link— As a standard action, you may form an empathic link with one willing animal within 30 feet. The link lasts for one hour per point of your Wisdom modifier, or until either you or the animal goes to sleep. The number of empathic links you have in effect at one time (including any link with a familiar or animal companion) cannot exceed your Wisdom modifier. Prerequisite: Wild Empathy, Speak with Animals
    • Animal Companion— You gain an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures are also available: porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This ability functions as the druid ability of the same name, except that your effective druid level is two-thirds your savage level. Prerequisite: Wild Empathy
    • Greater Bond— Your effective druid level increases to equal your savage level. Prerequisite: Wild Empathy, Animal Companion
    • Speak with Plants— You may comprehend and communicate with plants, including both normal plants and plant creatures. Prerequisite: Wild Empathy
    • Trackless Stride— You no longer leave a trail in natural surroundings unless you wish to do so.
    • Savage Tracking— You may move at your normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. You takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking. Furthermore, you may follow the scent-trail of a creature moving through water without penalty.
    • Woodland Stride— You may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at your normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. You may also walk through thorns, briars, or overgrown areas that have been magically affected to impede movement (such as by an entangle spell), provided that your savage level is higher than that the caster level of the effect.
    • Tree Stride— You gain the ability to enter trees and move from inside one tree to inside another tree. This ability functions as the tree stride spell, with the following exception. Once you pass from one tree to another, you cannot enter another tree for a number of minutes equal to 10 minus your Wisdom modifier. Prerequisite: Woodland Stride, Level 6
    • Greater Tree Stride— You may use your Tree Stride ability as a move action, and the recharge time improves to 10-Wisdom Modifier rounds. In addition, you gain the ability to make a Greater Tree Stride. Doing so takes one minute, and can only be used once per hour, but doing so improves the transport range from feet to miles. Prerequisite: Woodland Stride, Level 12
    • Camouflage— You may use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.
    • Hide in Plain Sight— When in natural terrain, you may attempt to use the Hide skill even while being observed. However, you take a -5 penalty to your roll while doing so. Prerequisite: Camouflage, Level 6.
    • Chameleon Hide (invisibility as long as you concentrate) [req. level 10+]— After long practice, you have learned to emulate and surpass the color-changing abilities of a chameleon. You may become completely invisible for as long as you concentrate. During the first 1d4 rounds of concentration, and for the first 1d4 rounds after you cease concentrating, you are partially color-shifted, and have are considered to have partial concealment. After using this ability, you cannot use it again for 1d6 minutes. Prerequisite: Camouflage, Chameleon Hide, Level 10
    • Webbed Feet— You gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed.
    • Amphibious— You may breath water as easily as you breath air. Furthermore, you never take pressure damage, and you may move and make attacks with your natural weapons while underwater with no penalty. Prerequisite: Webbed Feet, or pre-existing swim speed
    • Ape’s Claws— You gain a climb speed equal to your base land speed.
    • Gecko’s Foot— You gain the ability to traverse sheer vertical and horizontal surfaces, like a gecko. You never need to make a Climb check, and you may stick to surfaces as smooth as a sheet of glass with no penalty. Your bare hands or feet must be in contact with the surface for this ability to work. Prerequisite: Ape's Claws, or pre-existing climb speed
    • Mole’s Claws— You gain a burrow speed equal to your base land speed.
    • Tremorsense— You gain the tremorsense ability, with a range of 10 feet per point of your Wisdom modifier. Prerequisite: Mole’s Claws, or pre-existing burrow speed
    • Savage Speed-- You gain an untyped bonus to one type of movement equal to one-half your savage level times five. (So, for example, a 10th level savage with this ability could gain a 25ft bonus to his base land speed).
    • Primal Speed-- You may apply the bonus from Savage Speed to all forms of movement you possess. Prerequisite: Savage Speed
    • Cheetah's Grace-- You may move up to ten times your speed as part of a charge. After using this ability, you lose the bonus from Savage Speed for 1d6 rounds, and you may not sprint again for 2d6 minutes after that. Prerequisite: Savage Speed
    • Surface Walker— You gain the ability to breath air, if you did not have it already, and gain a land speed equal to one-half your base swim speed, if you did not have one already.
    • Wild Senses— You gain a bonus to Search, Spot, and Listen checks equal to your savage level.
    • Echolocation— You gain the blindsense ability, with a range of 10 feet per point of your Wisdom modifier. You may turn this ability on or off as a free action, but you cannot speak while using it. This is a [sonic] ability, and although it operates on frequencies too high for most humans to hear, some animals (such as dogs) can hear it. Prerequisite: Wild Senses, Level 6
    • Improved Echolocation— Your blindsense improves to blindsight. Prerequisite: Wild Senses, Echolocation, Level 10
    • Silent Ecolocation-- Enemies may no longer hear your echolocation. Prerequisite: Wild Senses, Echolocation
    • Beast’s Blessings— You gain a +2 inherent bonus to one physical ability score. Unlike other Nature’s Gift abilities, you may choose this ability multiple times. Repeated uses of this ability stack.
    • Animal Skill Prowess— Choose one skill from the following list: Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Swim, or Tumble. You gain a bonus to skill equal to five times your class level. Unlike other Nature’s Gift abilities, you may choose this ability multiple times, choosing a new skill each time.
    • Nature’s Whisper— You gain a bonus to Knowledge (Nature) and Survival checks equal to your savage level.



    Totemic Power (Ex): Nature is not inherently peaceful, and neither is a savage. At 3rd level, and every subsequent odd-numbered level, he chooses an ability from the following list. Unless otherwise mentioned, you may not choose an ability more than once. Unless otherwise mentioned, Totemic Powers are not immediately obvious on inspection.

    List of Totemic Power abilities
    Spoiler
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    • Pounce— You gain the ability to make a full attack— including rake attacks, if you have them— with your natural weapons at the end of a charge.
    • Primal Weapons — Your natural weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, and gain an enhancement bonus equal to one-fourth your savage level.
    • Primal Might— Your natural weapons overcome hardness and damage reduction as if made of adamantine. Prerequisite: Primal Weapons, Level 9
    • Improved Grab— When you strike a foe your size or smaller with a claw, bite, or tail attack, you may attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. You must have one of the aforementioned natural weapons to choose this ability.
    • Attach— When you strike a foe with your bite attack, you may latch onto his body. You lose your Dexterity bonus to armor class, but you drain 1d4 points of your foe’s Constitution each round your remain attached, gaining 2 temporary hit points per point of Constitution drained. While attached, you may be attacked with a weapon or grappled, but your opponent must achieve a pin against you to dislodge you. Prerequisite: Improved Grab, bite attack
    • Brute Wrestling— When grappling, you count as a creature one size larger than normal. You may take this ability more than once, counting as a larger size each time. Prerequisite: Improved Grab
    • Constrict— When grappling, you may deal damage equal to that of your tail attack with a successful grapple check. Prerequisite: Improved Grab, tail attack
    • Poison— Either your bite, claw, talon, or stinger attack (choose one when taking this ability) becomes poisonous. Foes struck by the chosen natural weapon must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Savage level + Constitution modifier) or be poisoned, taking 1d6 points of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution damage (choose one when taking this ability) immediately and 1d6 points a minute later. He receives a new Fortitude save against the second effect. You are immune to your own poison. You may take this ability more than once, choosing a new natural weapon each time. Prerequisite: Level 5, the appropriate natural weapon
    • Virulent Poison— Your poison does an additional 1d6 points of Strength, Dexterity or Constitution damage. Choose one when taking this ability, but it does not have to be the same as the original choice. You may take this ability more than once. Prerequisite: Level 9, Poison
    • Carapace— You grow a layer of scales, or an armored exoskeleton, or something of that nature. You gain a natural armor bonus equal to 1/2 your savage level.
    • Thick Skin— You gain damage reduction/— equal to your Constitution modifier. Level 9
    • Disease— Opponents struck by your bite attack must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Savage level + Constitution modifier) or contact a single non-supernatural disease, chosen at the time you choose this ability. The aforementioned Fortitude save DC replaces the normal save DC for the disease.
    • Rend— If you hit with two claw attacks, you automatically deal damage equal to twice the damage die from your claws, plus 1 ½ times your Strength modifier. If you have four claws, and hit with all four, this damage improves to four times the damage die from your claws, plus two times your Strength modifier. You cannot use both this ability and Improved Grab on the same claw attack.
    • Wolverine Rage— When your health drops below half its maximum, you go into a berserker frenzy, similar to a barbarian’s rage. You gain +4 Strength and Constitution and -2 AC until either you or all your foes are dead. You cannot use any skills or abilities that require patience, concentration, or delicacy (such as casting spells, picking locks, using the Diplomacy skill, and so on) while raging. You cannot end a rage prematurely, and you cannot be provoked into a rage more than once every (10- Constitution modifier) minutes.
    • Dire Wolverine Rage— The bonus from your Wolverine Rage ability improves to +6 Strength and Constitution. Prerequisite: Wolverine Rage, Level 9
    • Rake— When grappling, you may make talon attacks in addition to your normal one weapon. These attacks are not subject to the usual -4 penalty for attacking with natural weapons in a grapple. You must begin its turn grappling to use your rake—you can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn. Prerequisite: Talon attack
    • Powerful Charge— When charging, your gore attack becomes a primary natural weapon, and you deal extra damage equal to twice your normal gore damage plus three times your Strength modifier. You may not use both this ability and pounce during the same charge. Prerequisite: Gore attack
    • Savage Will— You gain a morale bonus to Will saves equal to ¼ your Savage level.
    • Unstoppable Brutality— You gain the Mettle ability. Prerequisite: Savage Will



    Evolution: At 4th level, and every subsequent 4th level, a savage’s body continues to change, growing new natural weapons and animalistic features. Unless otherwise mentioned, Evolutions are immediately obvious on inspection.

    List of Evolutions
    Spoiler
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    • Claw Attack— You grow a set of powerful claws. You gains two secondary natural attacks, each dealing d6 damage. You can extend or retract your claws at will. When retracted, a DC 20 Spot check is necessary to notice their presence.
    • Bite Attack— You grow a set of deadly fangs. You gain a secondary bite attack, dealing 1d8 damage. Like your claws, you can retract your fangs, requiring a DC 25 Spot check to notice their presence.
    • Talons— You grow a set of vicious talons on his feet. You gain two secondary natural attacks, each dealing d6 damage. Like your claws and fangs, you can retract them, requiring a DC 20 Spot check to notice their presence.
    • Horns— You grow one or more mighty horns. You gain a secondary gore attack, dealing 1d10 damage. You cannot retract your horns.
    • Improved Natural Weapon-- You gain Improved Natural Weapon as a bonus feat. You may take this ability multiple times.
    • Tail— You grow a long, lithe tail. You gain a secondary natural slam attack dealing 1d4 damage. Your tail is prehensile, though cannot use it to wield a weapon or perform delicate tasks, and it can easily support your body weight. You cannot retract your tail.
    • Stinger-- You grow a deadly stinger at the tip of your tail. You lose your slam attack, but gain a sting attack dealing 1d8 damage. Prerequisite: Tail
    • Wings— You grow a set of wings. You gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed, with good maneuverability. You cannot retract your wings. Prerequisite: Level 6
    • Extra Arms— You grow a second pair of arms. These new arms are every bit as nimble as your normal arms, and can wield weapons, perform delicate skill checks, any anything else you can do with your normal arms. In addition, having extra arms gives you an edge in a grapple-- when making grapple checks, you may add your Strength modifier a second time. Finally, if you subsequently take the Claws evolution-- or take it again, if you already had it-- you may choose to grow the claws on your second set of arms as secondary natural weapons.Prerequisite: Level 6
    • Keen Weapon— Choose one type natural weapon you already possess. That weapon’s critical hit range doubles, as though you had taken the Improved Critical feat. This bonus stacks with other effects that improve critical hit ranges, including the previously mentioned feat. You may take this ability multiple times. Each time, it applies to a new natural weapon.



    Nature's Vigor (Ex): At 5th level, a savage gains a bonus to saves against the extraordinary abilities of animals and vermin equal to his Constitution modifier.

    Nature’s Resilience (Ex): At 10th level, a savage gains the ability to turn his connection with nature still farther inwards. As a swift action, he may grant himself fast healing equal to his Constitution modifier for a number of rounds equal to his savage level. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier.

    Nature’s Majesty (Ex): Beginning at 15th level, a savage gains permanent fast healing equal to his Constitution modifier, replacing the limited use version from Nature’s Resilience.

    In addition, creatures with the animal or vermin types now recognize him as an absolute alpha male. Any creature of the aforementioned types who wishes to attack him must make a Will save (DC equal to 10 + ½ savage level + Wisdom modifier). On a failure, they cower away from the savage, and are considered flat-footed against his attacks. They receive a new Will save if he attacks them. A creature who successfully saves against this ability cannot be affected by the same savage’s Nature’s Majesty ability for 24 hours.

    Nature’s Perfection (Ex): At 20th level, a savage has all but surpassed the natural world he once sought to emulate. His type changes to animal (although his intelligence, alignment, saves, hit die and so on do not change), his fast healing improves to regeneration, and he gains a +4 inherent bonus to all physical abilities. His regeneration is bypassed only by the unnatural-- the natural weapons and spell-like abilities of outsiders and aberrations, and weapons made of extraplanar materials, such as Stygian Ice (Frostburn, page 81).

    New Feats

    Beloved of Nature
    Prerequisite: Savage 2
    Benefit: You gain an additional Nature’s Gift ability
    Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

    Totemic Shaman
    Prerequisite: Savage 3
    Benefit: You gain an additional Totemic Power ability
    Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

    Child of the Wild
    Prerequisite: Savage 4
    Benefit: You gain an additional Evolution ability
    Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

    Endurance of the Wilds
    Prerequisite: Nature’s Resilience class ability, Constitution 17
    Benefit: You may use your Nature’s Resilience ability an additional 3 times per day.
    Special: Upon gaining the Nature’s Majesty class feature, you may immediately retrain this feat.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2014-10-10 at 03:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    I would like to question the regeneration capstone. Nothing bypasses it, as written, which means this guy always takes nonlethal damage. I'm fine with most everything else, in fact, I want to play one very much, but the regeneration seems a bit much to me.

    Bookmarking for (hopefully) use later.
    "To play a fighter is to play the game.
    To play a wizard is to understand the rules.
    To understand the rules, and play a fighter, is to understand the game."
    -Lycar
    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    ...magical trumps mundane so often that mundane really needs to be able to give magic a good kick in the junk now and then.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    First off yes, you should specify somthing that overcomes his regeneration. Fire comes to mind.

    You seem to be big on options so why lock in the natural wepon chioces? Having a list to pick from (with their damage) and saying one picked at first level is a primary attack seems like a natural choice.

    You should make a note that perfection bonuses stack. realistically making them untyped or simple natural increases seems like a better option.

    pounce being limited that way seems unnecessary it kinda makes sense for countering dipping (i assume that was the goal) but the wierd bab does that about as well.

    Overall not particularly powerful, slightly better than a barb, worse than a teotmist, way worse than a druid. Usable.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Barbarian MD's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Subscribity. I want to play one.

    Is the Regeneration limited in duration like the Fast Healing is, or is it unending? The wording isn't very clear to me. If it's limited in time, I agree that nothing should bypass it. However, it would probably be more useful if it were a constant Regeneration that was bypass-able...
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    You guys are all joking, right?

    It's a 20th level capstone.

    Genie avatar by andres21295.

    RIP you funny, funny man.

    I run a Pokemon Wonder Trade blog now, so feel free to take a look.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Barbarian MD's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Not joking. 20th level or not, Regeneration should be overcome by something. Otherwise your character cannot be killed by anything but drowning or suffocation.

    Also, I like the natural armor = constitution modifier concept, but I would advise you to put a cap on it. In gestalt games with homebrew races, constitution modifiers can get silly.
    Fantastic Barbarian, M.D. avatar by Ceika

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by mhvaughan View Post
    Not joking. 20th level or not, Regeneration should be overcome by something. Otherwise your character cannot be killed by anything but drowning or suffocation.
    Or Level Drain.
    Or Ability Drain/Damage.
    Or *starts long winded list of ways to kill or deal away with for good someone with unbypassable regeneration*

    It's not that great as a capstone, even unbypassable.

    Genie avatar by andres21295.

    RIP you funny, funny man.

    I run a Pokemon Wonder Trade blog now, so feel free to take a look.

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    Barbarian MD's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    I disagree. Just because it can be bypassed by situational enemies with ability drain doesn't mean it's weak.

    I think there are two major thoughts on balancing a class:

    1) evenly distributed powers that are effective in many areas
    2) unevenly distributed powers that grant huge bonuses in some areas and are lacking in others.

    I think the first lends itself to better party dynamics. It's possible to create an overpowered melee class. That doesn't mean that it's more powerful than a tier 1, but it means that it's so exceptionally good in one area that it makes all the other classes that focus on that area meaningless. It also means that your DM will be forced to throw things at you (and your party) that are not balanced. Do you really want to play in a party where the only way to challenge one of the players is to constantly use ability drain? It's the same idea as having a class with an attack bonus 20 points better than the others, or an AC 20 points higher than everyone else. Your DM has trouble equally challenging the party, without arbitrarily having the enemies segregate themselves to fight you.

    Now, I'm not saying that this is the case here, not by a long shot. But I'm demonstrating my point that there are good ways and bad ways to amplify the power of a class. I (personally) think that continuous, un-bypassable regeneration would be a bad way.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH]

    aaaaannnddd the finished version is up! Natural weapon are now choose-able (thanks for the suggestion, Sir Swindle), regeneration capstone is fixed, new feats are up, and... yeah! Take a gander!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

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    Barbarian MD's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Definitely want to play this.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by mhvaughan View Post
    I disagree. Just because it can be bypassed by situational enemies with ability drain doesn't mean it's weak.
    I never said it was weak. But I have found in my experience that people tend to highly overestimate the worth of Damage Reduction, Fast Healing and Regeneration (the first two more than the third) and tend to be in favor of either granting it so late, in so little quantities or with so many restrictions that it's next to completely useless.

    Genie avatar by andres21295.

    RIP you funny, funny man.

    I run a Pokemon Wonder Trade blog now, so feel free to take a look.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    I never said it was weak. But I have found in my experience that people tend to highly overestimate the worth of Damage Reduction, Fast Healing and Regeneration (the first two more than the third) and tend to be in favor of either granting it so late, in so little quantities or with so many restrictions that it's next to completely useless.
    Understandable.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    YES! We can now make a Werehuman Human Centaur!

    (We use the Lycanthrope template; the animal is someone with 20 levels in this class.

    We then combo that with the Tauric template, using someone with 10 levels in the Primeval PrC.)

    GREAT SUCCESS!

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    I love everything about this but the "fire and acid" part. That's for everything and its mother. You never see regeneration bypassed by more interesting things. Come on Grod! Make my dream come true.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Try silvered or cold iron weapons? Knocks the blasters down a peg.

    Also, I don't see why a tail attack can't be poisoned. Y'know what scorpions are like.

    Beast’s Blessings makes it sound like it stacks indefiniatley. Do you want that to apply.
    Also, there are 2 feats with the same name: might one to fix that.

    Aside from that, a very well-made brute class.
    Last edited by Doorhandle; 2012-04-26 at 01:22 AM.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Stealing for my campaign if you don't mind grod. I love your work.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Oh, here's another point of clarification. Regeneration can be an AND or an OR thing, and it's important to make the distinction. AND means that you have to have a weapon that does BOTH fire and acid. OR means that it could be a weapon with fire or acid. If you intend for it to be AND, that's fine, but if you intend for it to be OR, you should change it.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Doorhandle View Post
    Try silvered or cold iron weapons? Knocks the blasters down a peg.

    Also, I don't see why a tail attack can't be poisoned. Y'know what scorpions are like.
    Adding a Con based non-Con damaging poison as a totemic power for the tail attack would be perfect imo. Most of the other wepons have an addon so it works well. could even make it a tail or bite requirement.

    I thought about the regen bypassing choices alot when i made my first response.
    -Fire seems a natural chioce because it is a naturally destructive influence in nature, however it also somewhat represents rebirth.
    -Cold iron is often linked to fey, which are naturey but don't seem to fit with the savage idea.
    -Negative energy damage could be a good one to change the bypass mechanic to, it is inherently opposed to nature in basically every sense, it's common but not so common as to be trivial and not generally a standard issue spell for most blasters.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Many thanks for all your kind words. I'm glad you all seem to like it.

    Anyway, as per your suggestions, I've put in a more...creative bypass for the regeneration. I've also added a new Stinger evolution, which can be used with the poison. It also significantly boosts the damage of your tail attack (which was lower than the others, representing the fact that it has more out-of-battle utility than, say, a set of fangs).

    Doorhandle: Yes, Beast's Blessings can stack indefinitely. I can't find any feats by the name, though. What books are they in?

    Also, I was considering moving the fast movement boost to a Nature's Gift ability-- one of my friends pointed out that I put something like that into, geez, almost everything I brew. Thoughts?

    Also also... geez, I think this is the fourth primitive/"wild" themed 'brew I've done. What's wrong with me?
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2012-04-26 at 07:33 PM.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

    Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher...Alignment: Always neutral....Proficient with its natural weapons only...
    You may want to add a clause that lets you keep your alignment/intelligence/weapon proficiencies.
    Last edited by Howler Dagger; 2012-04-26 at 08:38 PM.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by SheepInDisguise View Post
    You may want to add a clause that lets you keep your alignment/intelligence/weapon proficiencies.
    I would think the "unless otherwise noted" part would apply here, but I'll add some clarifying text just in case a DM wants to be persnickety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Also, I was considering moving the fast movement boost to a Nature's Gift ability-- one of my friends pointed out that I put something like that into, geez, almost everything I brew. Thoughts?
    First off i didn't realize how many of ur brews i've actually liked.

    Second off if you like speed so much why isn't the cheeta sprint ability on the nature gift list?

    Is it bad that every time i think about this class i think of it as Geomancer without all of those silly spells.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Swindle89 View Post
    Second off if you like speed so much why isn't the cheeta sprint ability on the nature gift list?
    Good question.

    Is it bad that every time i think about this class i think of it as Geomancer without all of those silly spells.
    Haha, I totally forgot that class existed, probably because the dual-casting is just silly. Now I know what my next project is-- rewriting it as a straight Druid PrC


    Anyway, I went back in a turned the speed bonus into a Nature's Gift ability, and added a few new follow-up abilities. To compensate, I boosted the skill points, which should help him be a bit more competent as a scout-type. I also added a bit of flavor to the Gifts, and a new Totem Power. Enjoy!
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2012-04-30 at 12:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    [*]Poison— Either your bite, claw, talon, or stinger attack (choose one when taking this ability) becomes poisonous. Foes struck by the chosen natural weapon must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Savage level + Constitution modifier) or be poisoned, taking 1d6 points of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution damage (choose one when taking this ability) immediately and 1d6 points a minute later. He receives a new Fortitude save against the second effect. You are immune to your own poison. You may take this ability more than once, choosing a new natural weapon each time. Prerequisite: Level 5, the appropriate natural weapon
    And here comes the obvious question, why would you choose a Str or Dex damaging poision over an equally damaging Con damaging one?

    The answer is they wouldn't.

    Even as a non-lethal poison, for a rogue/spider themed savage. 1d6 str isn't enough to have a great affect.

    Maybe change virulent to make the damage Con damage or make a the primary damage Str or Dex and the secondary Con.

    Another option is to make the options (1d6 Str or Dex or Wis)/Paralysis, 0/Unconciousness, or 1d6con/1d6con. Those are Primary/Secondary affects. This gives solid Lethal and Non-Lethal options also poisions.

    Virulent could then increase the damage and/or the duration of the affect.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Wow, okay, awesome class. I'm definitely stealing this!

    It completely overshadows the ranger and barbarian, though. In some games, that may not be a problem.

    If I were to make any changes, this is what I would do:
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    -d10, not d12. This guy gets too many skills, good saves, and class features to warrant that high of a hit die. I might even lower it to d8 given the fast healing/regeneration and damage reduction he eventually gets.

    -Scent is very powerful at 1st level, and still powerful at any level. It makes tracking ridiculously easy, and strongly reduces the ability of others to hide from you. I don't know what to suggest, but I think reducing this ability would be a good idea.

    -I would lower the amount of class features to:
    -one natures gift per three levels (7 at 20th)
    -one totemic power per four levels (5 at 20th)
    -one evolution at 5th and every 5 thereafter (4 at 20th)
    This guy gets a ton of stuff.

    -I would cut the bonus from wild senses by half. It's too high for my liking.

    -Animal skill prowess is WAY too high, +100 at 20th? I'd make it 1/2 class level - I know that's far less, but a +20 to any skill is basically an auto win.

    -I think dire wolverine rage can be had too early. A barbarian gets +8 to str/con only at 20th. I think I would make it +6, available at 10th.

    -I think fearsome weapon should only increase by one step, but allow it to stack with improved natural weapon.

    -Nature's Perfection: Are you sure about +4 to Str/Dex/Con? Seems like a bit much, even at 20th. Also, I would add undead to the list of creatures that can harm him, and cold iron to the list of materials that can harm him - cold iron hurts fey, which are created by nature.

    I still think it would be a plenty powerful class.
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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Seharvepernfan View Post
    Wow, okay, awesome class. I'm definitely stealing this!
    Glad you like it.

    It completely overshadows the ranger and barbarian, though. In some games, that may not be a problem.
    It's meant to be either a barbarian replacer, or used alongside a fix. I mean, I'm trying for T3, which means balancing against things like the Warblade and Psionic Warrior.

    -d10, not d12. This guy gets too many skills, good saves, and class features to warrant that high of a hit die. I might even lower it to d8 given the fast healing/regeneration and damage reduction he eventually gets.
    He's a brute and a front-line melee fighter. Unless you take Carapace, you have no good armor. d10 is not unreasonable, but... Also, bear in mind that fast healing is fairly insignificant in a fight, especially by higher levels. 10 damage/round sounds like a lot, but is meaningless when monsters can throw over a hundred damage (A CR 13 bronze (I think) dragon? Average of 75 damage with a full attack), or a save-or-die at you every round.

    -Scent is very powerful at 1st level, and still powerful at any level. It makes tracking ridiculously easy, and strongly reduces the ability of others to hide from you. I don't know what to suggest, but I think reducing this ability would be a good idea.
    Scent tracking gets hard very fast as time wears on (+2 DC/hour), and is easily avoided by wading through running water. Balance is godawful at low levels anyway-- the wizard will flat-out win one encounter and be useless for the rest, and a barbarian-- or, worse, a warblade-- with a greatsword will dominate everything.

    -I would lower the amount of class features to:
    -one natures gift per three levels (7 at 20th)
    -one totemic power per four levels (5 at 20th)
    -one evolution at 5th and every 5 thereafter (4 at 20th)
    This guy gets a ton of stuff.
    Options are fun. There's nothing more boring than a class where you're limited to full attacking every round. With all the choices, you can take the passive boosts and the prerequisite abilities and still have plenty of options. And unlike, say, a binder, you have no way to change what abilities you have access to.

    -I would cut the bonus from wild senses by half. It's too high for my liking.
    If you want to be an effective scout, you need either divination magic or really high skill checks. One makes sense, the other does not.

    -Animal skill prowess is WAY too high, +100 at 20th? I'd make it 1/2 class level - I know that's far less, but a +20 to any skill is basically an auto win.
    5 times level may be a bit high, but really... look at that list again. What will a +100 give you? Balance, Climb, and Jump are really all replaceable by Fly (a 3rd level spell). Escape Artist? Freedom of Movement is 4th level, and gaseous form is 3rd. Hide? Move Silently? Invisibility and Silence are 2nd level spells. Tumble? Do you know what a DC 100 tumble check gets you? Feather Fall. Silly-high social skills can cause problems. Silly high physical skills do not.

    -I think dire wolverine rage can be had too early. A barbarian gets +8 to str/con only at 20th. I think I would make it +6, available at 10th.
    Wait, did I make it +8? Whoops, should be +6. 10th level availability would mean you can't pick it up until 12th level. It's earlier than the PHB barbarian gets it, true, but the PHB barbarian gets its rage boosts way too slowly. My remix gets Greater Rage at 7, and is what I was building off.

    -I think fearsome weapon should only increase by one step, but allow it to stack with improved natural weapon.
    They do stack. The reason for the big bump is that you can't get iterative attacks with natural weapons-- to deal a lot of damage, you either need a really big weapon, or a lot of little ones. The two-step bonus makes it easier to go the first route-- heck, it means that you can go the first route and remain effective.

    -Nature's Perfection: Are you sure about +4 to Str/Dex/Con? Seems like a bit much, even at 20th. Also, I would add undead to the list of creatures that can harm him, and cold iron to the list of materials that can harm him - cold iron hurts fey, which are created by nature.
    +4 at 20th level? You're right, that's way too strong when compared to, say, dominate monster. Or wail of the banshee. What a weap spell.

    I'm sorry. I don't mean to dismiss your criticism out of hand. I just built this class, like most of my homebrew, for a higher-power game. I happen to think that that level of power is the most 'fun,' and the easiest to balance against non-TO casters. If you want to bring it down a notch or two, my recommendation would be to drop the HD a step and use your proposal for fewer abilities (although that will lead to dead levels).
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Hold on sparky. You can't say you want to have a class balanced at T3 and then justify every mechanical decision by saying that a level 9 spell can do better. Theres a reason most T3's don't have 9th level spells.

    Also just to point out some crazyness. The +100 hide is better in almost every way than the Chameleon Hide ability. Even the +50 you would be getting at the same level you could take Chameleon Hide is better. Seeing an invisible opponent is only like a DC20 spot check, seing some one hiding with +100 hid is a DC100+ spot check.

    +100 balance is water walking, not so bad i geuss
    +100 climb is spider climb, almost
    +100 Escape artist you can slip through a key hole
    +100 Jump functionally cancles your nerf to Movement, since a savage can just running jump 100ft hell I'd prolly let him turn corners while doing it (at like a +20DC). It's more physically possible than other epic skills.

    The hard cap on claw damage would be somthing like 36d6 from what i can tell, thats really not that high considering it's all of the evloutions and feats.
    I'm not sure where the cap is for total damage from claws. Extra arms+imp nat wep = profit

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Swindle89 View Post
    Hold on sparky. You can't say you want to have a class balanced at T3 and then justify every mechanical decision by saying that a level 9 spell can do better. Theres a reason most T3's don't have 9th level spells.
    True, but a capstone?

    Also just to point out some crazyness. The +100 hide is better in almost every way than the Chameleon Hide ability. Even the +50 you would be getting at the same level you could take Chameleon Hide is better. Seeing an invisible opponent is only like a DC20 spot check, seing some one hiding with +100 hid is a DC100+ spot check.
    Yeah, good point. I think I'll take Hide and Move Silently off the list-- they're more likely than the other skills to be a really big problem.

    +100 balance is water walking, not so bad i geuss
    +100 climb is spider climb, almost
    +100 Escape artist you can slip through a key hole
    +100 Jump functionally cancles your nerf to Movement, since a savage can just running jump 100ft hell I'd prolly let him turn corners while doing it (at like a +20DC). It's more physically possible than other epic skills.
    Water walking? Spider climb? Slipping through a key hole? Oh, and as for the Jump...technically, if you jump 100ft and only have a 20ft move speed, it'll take you 5 actions to "finish" the jump, so... not that good for a melee-focused class.

    The hard cap on claw damage would be somthing like 36d6 from what i can tell, thats really not that high considering it's all of the evloutions and feats.
    I'm not sure where the cap is for total damage from claws. Extra arms+imp nat wep = profit
    On the other hand, if you put all of your evolutions and all of your feats into claw damage, you certainly ought to have some terrifyingly deadly claws. 4x36d6 is an awful lot, though... maybe I will cap how many times you can take Fearsome/Keen weapon for the same weapon.

    Oh, and I also dropped carapace down to an armor bonus-- 1/2 class level + con mod + whatever armor you're wearing (potentially plate, with a feat/multiclass) would have been just plain silly.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2012-05-01 at 09:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    True, but a capstone?
    Oh I'm not going to defend his claim against the capstone. THB it's almost underwhelming (not fighter capstone underwhelming but, ya)

    The regeneration is the meat of the whole thing. Being an animal gives you just about nothing you don't already have. and haveing 3 2nd level spell permanently cast on you is like an M&M stuck in the icing on a cake.

    I'm not going to say it needs to be reworked. But i could very well see some one taking the 20th level more for the Evolution and the Nature's gift than the actual capstone.

    I wasn't really trying to say all of the +100 skills were OP (i kinda pointed out that they aren't) But if you want to go with the natural things things can do then you should probably break them down into their own line items with explanations if you insist because as it turns out most of those things still not physically possible for things that weight scores of pounds and have bones.

    I should point out again that i don't think there is any thing wrong with having permanent water walking or spider climb or squishyness (hell i'm not even saying they don't fit the theme)

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    Default Re: The Savage-- one part barbarian, one part druid, one part Wolverine [3.5, PEACH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Swindle89 View Post
    Oh I'm not going to defend his claim against the capstone. THB it's almost underwhelming (not fighter capstone underwhelming but, ya)

    The regeneration is the meat of the whole thing. Being an animal gives you just about nothing you don't already have. and haveing 3 2nd level spell permanently cast on you is like an M&M stuck in the icing on a cake.

    I'm not going to say it needs to be reworked. But i could very well see some one taking the 20th level more for the Evolution and the Nature's gift than the actual capstone.

    I wasn't really trying to say all of the +100 skills were OP (i kinda pointed out that they aren't) But if you want to go with the natural things things can do then you should probably break them down into their own line items with explanations if you insist because as it turns out most of those things still not physically possible for things that weight scores of pounds and have bones.

    I should point out again that i don't think there is any thing wrong with having permanent water walking or spider climb or squishyness (hell i'm not even saying they don't fit the theme)
    Sorry. I probably shouldn't respond to these things first thing in the morning
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
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    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

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