d20 for the Proletariat? (Classless, Levelless)

[Ashtagon]

Thought experiment...

Characters are build with 4d6 drop one, seven times, drop one, arrange to taste (or whatever randomisation or selection method you choose).

All human characters begin with 4 hp ("hero points" - they are conceptually more of a character shield. Instead of negative hp, you have a number of "body points" equal to your Constitution score. Any time you lose bp, you risk falling unconscious and/or suffering a major long-term injury that won't ever really go away without super-science medical aid or magic.

Characters can have any number of traits, feats, or flaws, in any combination, depending on what works best for the character concept. These should probably be assigned points somewhere along in the design stages.

A key point with feats is that they should allow you to do something you couldn't otherwise do (ie. no static bonus feats). On the other hand, a feat shouldn't be required to do something that a reasonably talented person could do. ("Sorry, you can't swing on the chandelier without the Dashing Gallant feat.")

Base attack bonus is dropped. Instead, it is divided up into a dozen of so weapon groups, and treated as a skill.

Armour provides damage reduction and limits your Dexterity bonus. Hard to hit or hard to damage; pick one.

If you want a gritty game, the GM can simply ban or severely restrict the ability to purchase additional hp. For a typical D&D "armed hobos" game, hp should be easy to purchase with your xp points.

Skill points remain largely the same. Without any concept of levels, there's no Intelligence bonus for skill points though. Equally, there's no reason not to open up a whole bunch of skills (and weapon proficiency is now effectively a skill) that previously would never have been considered.

Most class features could quite easily be rewritten as feats, with varying xp point costs to purchase. Some of these could well have prerequisites. The exception is spell-casting, which is notoriously hard to balance, and doesn't lend itself well to this idea as currently written. "Gain one level of wizard casting ability" defeats the primary point of this d20 variant concept.

Is this worth developing?

[Xechon]

If you have not, read these. A lot of what you are talking about is covered there. You may also want to check out GURPS for class/level-less gameplay, and possibly burning wheels (is probably somewhere in there) for its skill system.

Your ideas are good and just (mostly because I am trying to force myself to do something like that), but there are a few holes in what you said below that would prevent it from working. I suggest researching any present rpgs like these and getting a good idea of working mechanics. can't help much right now, sorry.

[Ashtagon]

If you have not, read these. A lot of what you are talking about is covered there. You may also want to check out GURPS for class/level-less gameplay, and possibly burning wheels (is probably somewhere in there) for its skill system.

Your ideas are good and just (mostly because I am trying to force myself to do something like that), but there are a few holes in what you said below that would prevent it from working. I suggest researching any present rpgs like these and getting a good idea of working mechanics. can't help much right now, sorry.

I am very much aware of the Unearthed Arcana content, and frankly, it would require a lot of work to suit my needs, since it is almost all very closely tied to the class/level mechanics (and the flaws are kind of bland anyway, and set more with an eye towards formulaic balance than to actually being what they are fluffed as). Gurps probably will be more useful for this task.

I'm not familiar with Burning Wheel. Which is the two dozen file linked on that web page should be considered the introductory document? Browsing a couple, nothing stands out as being the "read me first" one.

[Xechon]

GURPS is a very nice system for the simulationist. It has its own flaws and quirks, but at least they aren't a different set of the laws of physics that D&D presents. The unearthed arcana content is tied to classes, but it wouldn't take all that much work to hack that part out. Certainly less work than reinventing the wheel.

For Burning Wheels, yeah, I couldn't find the link I got my pdf from. I'll keep on searching, and I might just try re-hosting it later, but for right now, I'll explain.

The skill system in Burning wheels takes the level of your skill, compares it to the difficulty of task you are attempting with it, and determines if that skill levels up from the experience. It's a whole lot more realistic and more balanced than the D&D skill system, and it is completely level/class independent.

I very strongly believe something like this is worth developing, and I will help in any way I can. I have some initial advice if you decide to take up the project: Think outside the book. Real life is as balanced as you can get, some examples a lot more subtle than others. Build a system that plays on that first, and you will understand the balance better. Then, you can add the odd, futuristic, and supernatural to add to the system a lot easier and a ton more balanced. It would be hard, but probably the best way to create a good, reliable system with as few bugs as possible.

[Xechon]

Found the Burning Wheels File! Here you go!

Anyway, yeah, that is a storytelling style game, but uses some simulationist methods to work, and the skill system is so amazingly simple and intuitive. Enjoy!