Let's make a base class (3.5 collaberation)

[Ziegander]

Replace Turn Undead with Turn Constructs and explicitly state that Turn Constructs can be used to power divine feats?

[Empedocles]

Replace Turn Undead with Turn Constructs and explicitly state that Turn Constructs can be used to power divine feats?

That's definitely a thought, although turning constructs is certainly an odd idea.

[Larkas]

Not to mention the idea is having a mecha, not turning other mechas But it is an idea anyways

[Virdish]

Though if you think about it from a standpoint of the class would understand how a Mecha work and thus knows how to make them run away essentially it would work.

[Larkas]

Hmmmm, you have a point there. Weird, though, constructs are generally... Ehm... More mindless than zombies?

Here is what I came up with so far, tell me what you think and don't forget this is a collaborative project, so you can suggest changes Comments are in red, and things to do are between brackets in green.

Spoiler

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Level: 4th. This is when you would gain Turn Undead.
Special Requirement: A set of full plate armor of at least masterwork quality. It doesn't make much sense if it is anything but full plate when it goes golem-mode, unfortunately =/
Replaces: This benefit replaces the special mount and the turn undead class features. This is tentative, but I think they are the best things to replace.
Benefits: Your connection to the heavenly realms allows you to call on a celestial spirit to inhabit your armor, imbuing it with its power. The full plate then becomes a magic armor (if it wasn't already) and gains an enhancement bonus and/or special abilities. Furthermore, the armor becomes an intelligent item of Lawful Good alignment and (mental attributes, ego, communication mode).
At 4th level, and every four levels thereafter, the armor gains a +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. This bonus can be exchanged for any suitable armor special ability at the Paladin's discretion, though the spirit will refuse to imbue the armor with any ability that goes against its ethos. These bonuses stack with any bonuses the armor might have had before the spirit came to inhabit it. For example, if a 12th level Paladin had a +1 full plate armor before the spirit came to inhabit it, this armor is now a +4 full plate armor, or maybe a +1 full plate armor of invulnerability.
(Explain how to attune the spirit to the armor, how to transfer the spirit to a new armor and what happens when the armor is destroyed)
(Explain how and when the armor can be animated to work like a medium construct)
(Explain when you would gain Repair X Damage, and how that could be used to fix the armor)
(Explain when the armor can grow to go mecha; number of rounds = Level+Cha Modifier, or something like the barbarian rage, or something more like turn undead?)

[Ziegander]

Not to mention the idea is having a mecha, not turning other mechas But it is an idea anyways

Though if you think about it from a standpoint of the class would understand how a Mecha work and thus knows how to make them run away essentially it would work.

Right, havng a mecha means understanding how they work, and how to control them. It makes a lot of sense, though, actually, Rebuke Constructs (regardless of alignment) actually makes even more sense. Or maybe they can Turn OR Rebuke Constructs, regardless of alignment, choosable each time they use the ability.

Has anyone here seen Garryl's Metroid as Incarnum project? If you replace the Paladin's Mount with a special suit of Powered Armor, and then cut Turn Undead for Turn/Rebuke Constructs and cut the spellcasting and replace THAT with Metroid as Incarnum stuff with the fluff that it is tied to the golem armor, THEN I think you might have something very interesting.

[Virdish]

I like the idea of a magically mechanized suit like zeighander was talking about.

[dspeyer]

Now look what you've done: you've inspired me. And it wasn't even to the class you wanted, so I posted it in a separate thread.

[Larkas]

HAHAHAHA, hey, glad it was of some use

[Virdish]

So I have a couple ideas.

In regards to how the attunement happens the paladin should suit in prayer with the armor for some time (one day maybe). This would attune the spirit to the armor.

Another idea I had is that a paladin should be able to summon his armor and have it materialize on him kinda like the power ranger armor kind of flowed over them till it was complete.

Another idea call from the other post. Perhaps if the paladin falls unconscious the armor will (at later levels) can continue to fight in his stead. It wouldn't have access to his paladin abilities except maybe smite evil since I am assuming that the spirit would be that.of a saint or other pure spirit.

My last idea regards the paladin's type while in the armor. In essence the paladin would be a.construct on the outside, and in so being should theoretically get the same type of immunity to crits and sneak attacks that a construct does. This would of course be negated by a character with a feat that allows him to crit and sneak attack a construct.

So it would look something like this written up.

Heavenly construct: When a Paladin dons her construct armor she gains immunity to sneak attacks and criticals as her body is entirely encased in a living armor which presents no openings the Paladins body. At (blank) level the Paladin has become even more in tune with the living armor she is encased in, gaining resistance to slashing and piercing damage equal to (not sure)

[Larkas]

So I have a couple ideas.

In regards to how the attunement happens the paladin should suit in prayer with the armor for some time (one day maybe). This would attune the spirit to the armor.

Another idea I had is that a paladin should be able to summon his armor and have it materialize on him kinda like the power ranger armor kind of flowed over them till it was complete.

Kinda like Saint Seiya too, huh? Yeah, I was thinking of something along those lines too, great idea

Another idea call from the other post. Perhaps if the paladin falls unconscious the armor will (at later levels) can continue to fight in his stead. It wouldn't have access to his paladin abilities except maybe smite evil since I am assuming that the spirit would be that.of a saint or other pure spirit.

I thought of something like that too, but I think that "fighting" is a little too much. Maybe "bringing the paladin somewhere safe" is better

My last idea regards the paladin's type while in the armor. In essence the paladin would be a.construct on the outside, and in so being should theoretically get the same type of immunity to crits and sneak attacks that a construct does. This would of course be negated by a character with a feat that allows him to crit and sneak attack a construct.

So it would look something like this written up.

Heavenly construct: When a Paladin dons her construct armor she gains immunity to sneak attacks and criticals as her body is entirely encased in a living armor which presents no openings the Paladins body. At (blank) level the Paladin has become even more in tune with the living armor she is encased in, gaining resistance to slashing and piercing damage equal to (not sure)

I would go even further. Maybe when in mecha form, the armor would have a separate HP pool, and if the paladin forces his hand, he can end the fight with his armor destroyed. Maybe praying and mending could solve that easily, but, in that one fight, the character is pretty much screwed.

[Virdish]

With two health pools I worry about balance a little. And then you get into thinking about effects that may not be appropriate to target the armour. It would have to be a lower HP. Perhaps 1/2 hd or 1/4 hd. Though then there would be a high chance that the.armor would break in almost every bigger fight. Maybe 3/4 hd would work but then that is giving a HUGE boost to the paladin

[Larkas]

Hmmmm... What if all the damage done to the armor is transferred as subdual/non-lethal damage to the Paladin?

[Virdish]

I actually like that idea. So full HD for the suit and it is destroyed at 0 leaving the Paladin still able to fight but with no armor?

[Larkas]

Pretty much, but he'd be staggered or unconscious. Look here: Injury and Death (look for "Nonlethal Damage")

I think it is fitting, anyways. He used up all his strength and is very tired. Just use 1 point of Lay on Hands and he's back in action, though still armorless.

[Ziegander]

I'm going to try and combine the flavor of a Paladin with the mechanics of Garryl's Metroid as Incarnum, with some of the concepts of Iron Man's fully biometrically integrated, fluid armors, shake liberally, pour over ice cubes, and see how it turns out.

Spoiler

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Alignment: Lawful Good
Hit Die: 1d10

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |

Radiant Armor

|

Modules

|

Energy

|

Hard-Points

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Radiant Core, Smite Evil (+1d6), Zealous Sensors|

--

|

--

|

--

|

--

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Divine Grace, Radiant Wellspring|

--

|

--

|

--

|

--

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Aura of Resolve, Smite Evil (+1d6, -1)|

--

|

--

|

--

|

--

4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Radiant Armor, Reprogram Constructs|

+6

|

2

|

2

|

--

5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Hard-Points (Feet, Hands, Helmet), Smite Evil (+2d6, -1)|

+6

|

3

|

3

|

1

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5||

+7

|

4

|

4

|

1

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Smite Evil (+2d6, -2)|

+7

|

4

|

5

|

1

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6||

+7

|

5

|

6

|

1

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Smite Evil (+3d6, -2)|

+8

|

5

|

7

|

2

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Hard-Points (Arms, Back, Shielding)|

+8

|

5

|

8

|

2

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Smite Evil (+3d6, -3)|

+8

|

6

|

9

|

2

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8||

+9

|

6

|

10

|

2

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Smite Evil (+4d6, -3)|

+9

|

6

|

11

|

3

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9||

+9

|

7

|

12

|

3

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Hard-Points (Visor, Support), Smite Evil (+4d6, -4)|

+10

|

7

|

13

|

3

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10||

+10

|

7

|

14

|

3

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Smite Evil (+5d6, -4)|

+10

|

8

|

15

|

4

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11||

+11

|

8

|

16

|

4

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Smite Evil (+5d6, -5)|

+11

|

8

|

17

|

4

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Hard-Points (Core)|

+11

|

9

|

18

|

4

[/table]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Knowledge (Engineering), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes), Listen, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, and Use Magic Device.

Proficiencies: A Paladin is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and is proficient with all armor and shields.

Radiant Core (Su): A Paladin's internal hardware is infused with positive energy, giving him an Aura of Good equivalent to that of a Good Cleric.

Smite Evil (Su): Whenever a Paladin attacks an Evil creature he deals 1d6 additional damage. This additional damage increases by 1d6 for every four Paladin levels he has beyond the 1st.

Starting at 3rd level, Evil creatures who are Hostile to the Paladin or his allies suffer a -1 penalty to armor class, to attack rolls, and to saving throws whenever they are threatened by the Paladin. This penalty increases by 1 for every four Paladin levels he has beyond his 3rd.

Zealous Sensors (Su): A Paladin is aware of the presence of evil creatures at all times, benefiting from a constant Detect Evil effect, as the spell except that he only detects creatures whose alignment entries specify that the creature is "Always Evil," and that the area is a 60ft emanation centered on the Paladin.

Divine Grace (Su): A Paladin of 2nd level and higher adds his Charisma modifier to all saving throws.

Radiant Wellspring (Su): Starting at 2nd level, a Paladin's positively charged core overflows with divine power that can regenerate damage dealt to him and can be used to heal others. He has a pool of healing points equal to his class level × his Charisma bonus. When he is dealt damage, if he has points of healing left in his pool, then he may subtract any number of them rather than take an equal amount of damage.

As a standard action, a Paladin may sacrifice any number of points of healing from his Radiant Wellspring to cure an equal amount of hit point damage from a touched creature. Being positive energy, healing from a Paladin's Radiant Wellspring has no effect on Constructs and can be used damage Undead.

A Paladin with points of healing remaining in his Radiant Wellspring that is brought to fewer than 0 hit points automatically stabilizes.

A Paladin that runs his Radiant Wellspring dry can replenish his healing points with an extended rest (8 hours of sleep for most creatures).

Aura of Resolve (Su): A Paladin of 3rd level and higher is immune to Fear and Compulsion effects. Any allies within 15ft of the Paladin add the Paladin's Charisma modifier to saving throws against those effects.

Reprogram Constructs (Su): A 4th level Paladin may Turn or Rebuke Constructs as a Cleric Turns or Rebukes Undead, except that his alignment has nothing to do with whether he Turns them or Rebukes them. He may choose which he wishes to apply with each use of this ability.

A Paladin may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier, and he need not present a holy symbol or any similar equipment to do so.

Reprogram Constructs may be used in place of Turn/Rebuke Undead for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of classes, feats, items, etc; and for the purposes of activating the abilities of classes, feats, items, etc.

Radiant Armor (Su): At 4th level, the integration of the Paladin's internal hardware with the flow of positive energy has become complete, allowing him to form Radiant Armor over him comprised of solid positive energy. This process is mostly automated (and in some cases, fully automated) by the Paladin's Radiant Core. Radiant Armor is considered Heavy Armor but it does not restrict movement, has an unlimited Max Dex Bonus, and no armor check penalty. The armor is made to support itself, and does not count towards your encumbrance, although it does weigh 75 lb.

Forming Radiant Armor takes 1 whole round to complete, but takes no actions from the Paladin; however, the process must begin on the Paladin's turn. When fully formed, a Paladin's Radiant Armor grants him an Armor Bonus to AC equal to the value given in the table above. If a Paladin goes unconscious and his Radiant Armor is not formed it will automatically begin to form itself over him on the Paladin's next turn.

The Radiant Armor can accept a variety of modules which the Paladin chooses from the Paladin Module list (given below). Each time the Paladin forms his Radiant Armor (including when he is unconscious) he chooses a number of modules from his list, based on his class level, and forms them along with the armor. These modules grant him special attacks, defenses, and utilities, and are powered by Energy.

Un-forming the Radiant Armor also requires no actions from the Paladin, but also takes 1 round to complete and must begin on the Paladin's turn. A Paladin may form his Radiant Armor, choosing a specific array of modules, un-form it later, then re-form it and choose a whole new array of modules to form with it.

A Paladin can activate only a certain number of modules at once. His base concurrent allotment is given in the table above. The maximum number of modules that he can have active from Paladin levels is equal to his Constitution score minus 10, or the number on the table, whichever is lower.

At 4th level, a Paladin gains access to his Radiant Armor's pool of Energy, which can be invested into formed modules to increase their effects. If he already has a pool of energy, he combines the two to determine his total amount of energy available. His Paladin level determines the maximum amount of energy that can be assigned to any given module at one time, as indicated below.

Table: Energy Capacity by Level
Paladin Maximum Energy
Level       per Module
0-5         1
6-10        2
11-15       3
16-20       4
21+         Level/5, rounded up

As a swift action, a Paladin may reallocate energy investments amongst his formed modules once each round.

Paladin Module List

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Annihilator Beam, Alt-Form, Astral Shift, Cryo Core, Dark Visor, Dimensional Shift, Disruption Beam, Dual Weapon, Echo Visor, Energy Tank, Essence Balancing, Exploration, Flare Beam, Grapple Lasso, Gravity Booster, Hammer Beam, Ice Beam, Infantry Teleportation, Kinetic Accelerator, Light Beam, Luminoth Protection, Missile Launcher, Order Enforcement, Plasma Beam, Power Beam, Radar, Resonance Detonator, Rezbit Control, Riot Shield, Scan Visor, Space Jump, Spazer Beam, Speed Booster, Terranean Resonator, Thermal Lance, Thermal Visor, Varia, Wave Beam, and X-Ray Scope.

Hard-Points (Su): Beginning at 5th level, a Paladin can attach formed modules to the hard-points that his Radiant Armor has available. He cannot attach modules to hard-points with integrated equipment (for example, if the Paladin has equipment occupying his Feet slot, he cannot attach a formed module to his Radiant Armor's Feet Hard-Point).

The number of hard-point attachments that a Paladin can have active at any one time depends on his class level (see the Hard-point Attachments column in the table above). At 5th level, he can attach modules to the Feet, Hands, and Helmet hard-points. At 10th level, he can attach modules to the Arms, Back, and Shielding hard-points. At 15th level, he can attach modules to the Visor and Support hard-points. At 20th level, he can attach modules to the Core hard-point.

---

2
So, that looks pretty nice, actually. A large list of modules that can be re-formed on the fly, armor made of pure lifeforce, and powerful early class features. It could use features to fill out the dead levels though.

[Virdish]

I really need to study up more on rules. I did far too much small homebrew roleplaying before I made the switch to more formal games. lol. I didn't even realize how non-lethal damage worked. However yeah it sounds effective. I really like the idea of it.

Zeigander. I like what you have there though as written most people would assume it is a construct only class though I get that you were going for a humanoid with a magical version of Iron Man's core. I think at later levels we may throw in a size change while in the suit. One thing though is that from what I assumed we were looking at an intelligent suit. Your mechanics can be easily changed and tweaked to accomplish this though but other then that I really like your Iron Paladin..... lol

[Larkas]

Indeed! Even though it is not exactly what we were going for, it turned out VERY nicely! Virdish has a point, though it appears it was made mainly for constructs; though it would be AWESOME playing a Warforged paladin with this, short of a setting full of cybernetics that is pretty much the only race that would work, flavor-wise, with this Just to make it clear, though, I REALLY like what you did there

[Ziegander]

Indeed! Even though it is not exactly what we were going for, it turned out VERY nicely! Virdish has a point, though it appears it was made mainly for constructs; though it would be AWESOME playing a Warforged paladin with this, short of a setting full of cybernetics that is pretty much the only race that would work, flavor-wise, with this Just to make it clear, though, I REALLY like what you did there

Yeah, if I were doing a full fluff write-up, it would include information about a setting filled with cybernetics, and an organization (or a few) known as the "Paladins" that combine law enforcement skill and systems with positive energy empowerment.

[Virdish]

So back to what we we're originally looking at let me know how this sounds as the chassis of the armor

Divine construct; at (5th) level the paladin begins a ritual to summon a spirit from the upper planes. This ritual takes 24 hours and must be committed on hallowed ground such as a church devoted to a good deity or under the effect of a hallow or similar spell. To begin this ritual the paladin must have a set of masterwork full plate for the spirit to inhabit. When completed the armor becomes sentient with mental scores of 10 wis and int (too much?). Once inhabited the armor returns to it's original plane until called to the mortal plane by the paladin. Calling the armor is a move equivalent action. It appears over the paladin's body.

When in the armor the paladin is treated as a construct. It gains immunity to critical and sneak attacks. It does not however become immune to mind altering effects.

The paladin's new armor takes damage for the paladin when he is wearing it though damage taken is transferred to the paladin as nonlethal damage. When the non lethal damage dealt the the paladin equals his total HP the armor disappears and returns to it's plane leavimg the paladin unconscious. The paladin is considered stable and may make a fortitude save (DC 25) to wake himself up however he is considered fatigued even on a successful save regardless of effects that would normally render him immune to fatigue.

[Larkas]

@Ziegander: ... That organization would be AWESOME! Although it would make more sense in a cyberpunk or even steampunk setting (Eberron haunts us once more! ), it would be nice even in regular, high fantasy scenarios! These Paladins would stand out, as Paladins always do, but in a stranger, in a good way, fashion!

So back to what we we're originally looking at let me know how this sounds as the chassis of the armor

Divine construct; at (5th) level the paladin begins a ritual to summon a spirit from the upper planes. This ritual takes 24 hours and must be committed on hallowed ground such as a church devoted to a good deity or under the effect of a hallow or similar spell. To begin this ritual the paladin must have a set of masterwork full plate for the spirit to inhabit. When completed the armor becomes sentient with mental scores of 10 wis and int (too much?). Once inhabited the armor returns to it's original plane until called to the mortal plane by the paladin. Calling the armor is a move equivalent action. It appears over the paladin's body.

When in the armor the paladin is treated as a construct. It gains immunity to critical and sneak attacks. It does not however become immune to mind altering effects.

The paladin's new armor takes damage for the paladin when he is wearing it though damage taken is transferred to the paladin as nonlethal damage. When the non lethal damage dealt the the paladin equals his total HP the armor disappears and returns to it's plane leavimg the paladin unconscious. The paladin is considered stable and may make a fortitude save (DC 25) to wake himself up however he is considered fatigued even on a successful save regardless of effects that would normally render him immune to fatigue.

Sounds mostly right. Minor nitpicks:

"mind altering" should be "mind affecting";

"The paladin is considered stable" is unnecessary: it is not "real damage", as it were, he is only unconscious, not dying.

Also, "Once inhabited the armor returns to it's original plane until called" is a little strange: the armor never were from that upper plane, only the spirit was. Maybe something like "The spirit, along with the armor it now inhabits, returns to its original plane until called" would be better?

On the subject, IIRC, intelligent items also have a Cha score. Maybe all the mental scores could follow the same progression as Int does for regular mounts, +1?

[Virdish]

I'm glad that all you had were minor nitpicks lol. Following the normal mount progression for mental stats seems like a good idea. Do we want to give them lesser abilities associated with intelligent armor and weapons?

Edit: I like your wording on the returning to it's former plane better then mine as like you said it makes much more sense then what I had.