Turtle-taurs! [3.5 races, PEACH!]

[jojolagger]

quick note you likely missed my post/edit. ninja'd you

[Pokonic]

Speaking of bros. these guys should favor throwing hammers.

Oh gosh, a Troopa PrC? Fund it, I say!

You know what, Magic. A wizard did it. I declare they have a humanoid torso with a smaller turtle shell for a ribcage, including a secondary set of lungs and a secondary heart.

Yeah, at this rate we will be talking about the divergance of Owlbears from Griffons evolution-wise, or something.

Also, I have the wonderful mental image of a psion honu that never leaves his shell.

Just hovering on a floating platform, with stuff decortating the shell on the outside for magical means? Heh, now I do too!

[Admiral Squish]

I'd like to see a note that adds any Dr they gain to their shells hardness, and maybe also a line that let's them gain Dr boosting feats, because it seems appropriate.

Good idea! I should do that.

Also, I have the wonderful mental image of a psion honu that never leaves his shell.

That... is a pretty awesome mental image. I really wanna play that now.

As for items, the rune is basically a continuous 1st level spell, so I'd say 2000, maybe 3000 to factor for high HD.

Whoo! Awesome pricing is awesome!

the iron back, I'd probably say iron is 500 gp, (1/5 value per pound of gold for worked iron), adamantine for 10000 (cost of heavy adamantine armour.)
The other option is to combine it with their armour, and say the shell gains half the hardness and all the hp of the armour. (would cost as much as normal set of armour for a medium quadruped)

More pricing! This is AWESOME!

I like the combine with armor option, but it'd take some jiggering to do it right.

I don't know how to price them either.

I like them. They're not what I expected, but their neat in their own way.

Well, thankfully, our friend Jojo stepped up with cost estimates. We'll see how it works.

Thanks!

Oh gosh, a Troopa PrC? Fund it, I say!

...I am vaguely tempted to make koopas now, but I have bigger projects to work on.

Yeah, at this rate we will be talking about the divergance of Owlbears from Griffons evolution-wise, or something.

Yeaaaaaah.

Just hovering on a floating platform, with stuff decortating the shell on the outside for magical means? Heh, now I do too!

Exactly! Just a floating shell blasting away with energy. I wanna do this a LOT.

[Admiral Squish]

Alright, here's a few drafts of feats and a revised take on ironback armor.

Ironback Armor: A suit of ironback armor is much like any suit of armor designed for a honu, ikahonu, or honukai. However, these suits are usually split into two sections an upper section, which fits much like any other suit of armor on their torso. The lower section is designed to engulf their shell, anchored into the bone with rivets, spiked nails, or other such fasteners. As such, while the upper portion can be removed normally, the lower section cannot be removed without breaking the character's shell. A suit of ironback armor applies it's armor bonus to the shell's AC, adds one-half its hardness to the shell's hardness, and it's HP to the shell's maximum HP. A character wearing the full suit of ironback armor takes normal armor check and speed penalties. If they remove the upper portion, they only take half armor check penalties but the speed penalty remains in full. the armor can be enchanted as normal, but the character must be present during the entire process. Enhancement bonuses apply at all times, but all other magical effects are suppressed and cannot be activated if the character is not wearing both parts of their ironback armor.
Ironback armor costs additional gold based on the weight category of the armor. Ironback armor weighs the same as it's non-ironback counterpart, and weighs 1/2 as much while the upper portion is removed.
{table=head]Armor Type|Cost
Light|+1000
Medium|+3000
Heavy|+5000[/table]


Tuck:
You can control your instinct to retreat into your shell, allowing you to gain a measure of protection while still being able to act.
Prerequisite: Wisdom 15, Shell Protection
Benefit: You can tuck yourself halfway into your shell, gaining cover against attacks as a move action. However, while tucked like this, you can't move freely, and all targets effectively have cover against you.

Crushing Jaws:
You have mastered the use of your bite to grip your prey.
Prerequisites: Ikahonu
Benefit: When grappling an opponent, you can sink your jaws into your opponent's flesh, automatically dealing bite damage every round you maintain the grapple.

Hard Shell:
You were born with a tougher shell than normal.
Prerequisites: Shell Protection, Con 17, Level 1
Benefit: Your shell's hardness increases by 1 point for ever 4 HD you possess and your shell gains extra HP equal to your HD.

[jojolagger]

I'd suggest also noting an increase in price for the Ironback Armour when made from a special material. something like 50% more cost from special materials.

[Cieyrin]

I'd suggest also noting an increase in price for the Ironback Armour when made from a special material. something like 50% more cost from special materials.

I don't know why they would increase in cost for special materials, as they don't vary by size or shape of creature normally, so I don't know why it would for this.

Also, I'm guessing spiked Ironback armor is probably only spiked on the shell part, I'm guessing, so some attention to that could be warranted.

[jojolagger]

I don't know why they would increase in cost for special materials, as they don't vary by size or shape of creature normally, so I don't know why it would for this.

Players handbook page 123. Armor for unusual creatures. non-humaniod has a price increase, and either the honu are treated an non-humanoid and have to pay double for the non-magic costs of armor, or the ironback armour covers the cost from weird shape, in which case increasing the cost of special materials helps balance special high hardness materials, and makes the cost more similar to barding.

[Admiral Squish]

I'd suggest also noting an increase in price for the Ironback Armour when made from a special material. something like 50% more cost from special materials.

The honu's already paying double price due to a nonhumanoid body plan. Why would special materials cost extra-extra? He wouldn't need any more of the stuff than normal armor, the extra price is just the custom-fitting and redesign.

Also, I'm guessing spiked Ironback armor is probably only spiked on the shell part, I'm guessing, so some attention to that could be warranted.

This is true. Think I should address armor spikes in the shell protection description?

Players handbook page 123. Armor for unusual creatures. non-humaniod has a price increase, and either the honu are treated an non-humanoid and have to pay double for the non-magic costs of armor, or the ironback armour covers the cost from weird shape, in which case increasing the cost of special materials helps balance special high hardness materials, and makes the cost more similar to barding.

It's supposed to be double base +the extra ironback cost.

[Sir Swindle89]

It's supposed to be double base +the extra ironback cost.

I think every one's question is "Why the extra cost?"

The rules for barding are supposed to cover this kind of thing.

I geuss there is an argument for the permanent attach ment process. But it's prolly only a couple copper (about the same cost as getting a horse shoed) to have a blacksmith to hammer a few spikes into your back.

[Admiral Squish]

I think every one's question is "Why the extra cost?"

The rules for barding are supposed to cover this kind of thing.

I geuss there is an argument for the permanent attach ment process. But it's prolly only a couple copper (about the same cost as getting a horse shoed) to have a blacksmith to hammer a few spikes into your back.

The extra cost is supposed to represent the price of custom-fitting the shell and reworking the design to anchor to the shell directly as opposed to being fastened together with leather straps over layers of chain and padding.

[Cieyrin]

This is true. Think I should address armor spikes in the shell protection description?

Wherever you think it would fit in best, just that it should be included somewhere.

[Admiral Squish]

Okay, armor spikes have been adressed and here's a version of armor spikes for them that doesn't mess with their ability to pull into the shell.

Shell Spikes: A honu, ikahonu, or honukai can get special spikes made, which can anchor to a suit of armor or even the shell itself. When grappling an opponent, the character can attempt to impale his opponent on these spikes as a standard action, by making a successful grapple check. If the check is successful, the opponent takes 1d8+strength damage.

[Pokonic]

Great, why can I see a Honu dashing up to a foe, preforming a graceful backflip, and retreating into it's shell just before it crushes the poor twit under a spiked shell?

[Cieyrin]

Great, why can I see a Honu dashing up to a foe, preforming a graceful backflip, and retreating into it's shell just before it crushes the poor twit under a spiked shell?

Because you forgot they had a -4 Dex and 'graceful' and 'honu' don't belong in the same sentence?

[Pokonic]

Bah, this is DnD! They could be a monk and use that ability that lets them leap realy, realy far!

[Admiral Squish]

Bah, this is DnD! They could be a monk and use that ability that lets them leap realy, realy far!

...Man, a honu monk running around at 80 ft/r would be more than a lil' ridiculous.

[Pokonic]

Are you kidding? What about a Ikahonu basicly flinging party members left and right all while in knee-deep water?

Quest giver: "Well, guys, in order to get the magical mcguffen, your going to have to defeat the kung-fu master who lives in the swamp."

PCs: "Oh, that can't be that bad. Probably a giant or something with class levels."

DM: "Hehehehehehe....."

[Admiral Squish]

Are you kidding? What about a Ikahonu basicly flinging party members left and right all while in knee-deep water?

Quest giver: "Well, guys, in order to get the magical mcguffen, your going to have to defeat the kung-fu master who lives in the swamp."

PCs: "Oh, that can't be that bad. Probably a giant or something with class levels."

DM: "Hehehehehehe....."

Speaking of ikahonu, they have been mechanically upgraded to large and had their stats tweaked. I just need to go tweak the physical description too.

[Cieyrin]

Ikahonu look pretty good, other that the natural weapons look like they didn't get increased in size to match.

[Admiral Squish]

Ikahonu look pretty good, other that the natural weapons look like they didn't get increased in size to match.

Oh yeah, that part... *goes and fixes*