Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

[masteraleph]

Q505
I fly directly over a target who is on the ground, and cast a spell which includes a Push effect. For a Push, each square of movement must move the target farther away from me; however, the target's origin square is adjacent to me and the first square it moves to would also be adjacent. I would rule that as "that counts as a push anyway", but I'm curious as to whether there is another solution. (I've seen a player claim "I'm in flight over a Huge monster, I can't be pushed away"--although he seemed to be forgetting that he could be pushed vertically as well).

While flying at Altitude One, I provoke an OA which has the effect "prone".
Q506A Does this knock me prone, or just bring me to ground and end my flight? That is, would Team Monster need two Prone effects to make me actually prone?
Q506B Once I'm actually prone, I assume I need to use a move action to Stand before I can resume flying?

A505: As Grey Wolf noted, you can't actually push in this case.
A506A: There actually is a rule for this, on page 210 of the RC (note that this updates/replaces the one Grey Wolf cited from the DMG, but it has some differences to be aware of): "Falling Prone: If a creature is knocked prone while it is flying, it falls. This means a flying creature falls when it becomes unconscious or is subject to any other effect that knocks it prone. The creature isn't actually prone until it lands and takes falling damage." On the prior page, it notes that a falling creature that falls its fly speed or less lands safely and is not prone. So yes, as long as you are at your fly speed or less high, they would need two prones to knock you out of the air and then prone.
A506B: Yes, this is correct.

[eggabubu8e]

Q507 okay so I have a question about RBA's and MBA's. If I was playing a sorcerer for example and I had the at will DragonFrost( which also counts as an RBA), if I had a wepliment from anything like MC Swordmage or AIP. Could I use DragonFrost through the weapon as a Melee basic attack or would I need other feats to be able to pull that off?



Re Q507Okay so I feel like I am getting mixed answers to my question one saying, there is an interpretation that allows you to treat it as an MBA if you use a weapliment, and another saying you have to have feat or specific power for it. To be absolutely blunt about this; which is it? Can I just use DragonFrost as an MBA with my weapliment or do I need a feat like the one pointed out?

[Tegu8788]

A 507

This is heavily debated. The various ways either read: change the range on the RBA to melee, thus it's an MBA; or you make an RBA with a range of melee weapon. The best answer is ask your DM, more read the latter.

[masteraleph]

A507

Is not actually heavily debated as it's phrased. First of all, it's worth noting that Sorcerers already come with Weapliments- both of their starting implement types, daggers and staffs, are weapliments. With that said, using a ranged power with a weapon as your implement doesn't change anything- you don't throw the weapon, you don't stab with the weapon, you channel the power through your weapon. Picture the power shooting through the tip of your dagger, or coming out as you slash it through the air, or bursting forth from the staff. The main reason people love weapliments is so that they can slap a Dragonshard (see Eberron Players Guide onto them).

Now, if you have the Sorcerous Blade Channeling feat (which is, I presume, what Tegu8788 was referring to), then you can make ranged attacks with a dagger melee. Reading it as literally as possible, you could use it as a Ranged Basic or as a Melee, but not as a Melee basic (since Basic is not a keyword). You might be able to convince your DM to read it the other way, though. Sorcerers also have an at-will, Ensorcelled Blade, that can be used in place of an MBA (but note that it doesn't get benefits specific to MBAs because of that, since it doesn't count as one, just can be used in palce of one).

[Kurald Galain]

A 507 This is heavily debated.

A507 Is not actually heavily debated

LOL.

(but note that it doesn't get benefits specific to MBAs because of that, since it doesn't count as one, just can be used in palce of one).

Anyway, it's worth mentioning that "counts as an MBA" and "can be used in place of an MBA" are synonyms and mean the exact same thing. This is because the rules are written in English, not in Bureaucratese.

[masteraleph]

LOL.


Anyway, it's worth mentioning that "counts as an MBA" and "can be used in place of an MBA" are synonyms and mean the exact same thing. This is because the rules are written in English, not in Bureaucratese.

The highly debated question is whether Sorcerous Blade Channeling lets you use an RBA as an MBA. The original question was a step before that (not having identified the feat at all), and the first answer never mentioned it.

Also, there are three formulation Wizards uses:

Counts as an MBA
Can be used as an MBA
Can be used in place of an MBA

The first two certainly can be used as an MBA. I'd suggest that the third one, RAW, can't.

[Yakk]

Q507 okay so I have a question about RBA's and MBA's. If I was playing a sorcerer for example and I had the at will DragonFrost( which also counts as an RBA), if I had a wepliment from anything like MC Swordmage or AIP. Could I use DragonFrost through the weapon as a Melee basic attack or would I need other feats to be able to pull that off?

A507:
There is a feat that lets you use sorcerer at-wills as melee attacks if you use a dagger -- sorcerous blade channeling.

Being able to make a RBA as a melee ranged attack does not turn it into a MBA. It is a melee attack, and it is a basic attack, but it is not a "melee basic attack" by the rules as written.

However, by the rule of cool and "permit neat tricks if it doesn't break the game", it wouldn't be hard to argue that case to me as a DM (that a basic attack used as a melee power is a melee basic attack). If you leveraged it into breaking the game (including overshadowing other players), I would revisit.

Do note that a random ranged implement power being used through an implement that happens to be a weapon doesn't let you use the ranged implement power as a melee attack, let alone a melee basic attack. Being able to use a longsword as an implement doesn't let you use dragonfrost as a melee attack, let alone a melee basic attack. Being able to use a longsword as an implement means you can cast spells through it, as if it was a wand or staff or holy symbol.

[Echobeats]

Q508

Is a Monk's Flurry of Blows an attack?

More specifically, would the following effect (from the theme power Sarifal's Blessing) increase the damage from Desert Wind Flurry of Blows (2 + Cha fire damage)?

"Any enemy in the aura has vulnerable 5 to your attacks that deal the chosen damage type."

It says "Feature" at the bottom of the power cards, and there's no roll, but... it sounds pretty attack-y?

[Kurald Galain]

A508

If you're using the Rules Compendium, then yes (the power deals damage to an enemy, therefore it is an attack). If you're using the PHB1/2/3 only, then no (because said rule is not in the earlier books, nor is there errata for it).

[masteraleph]

A508

As Kurald Galain said, yes. Given that the particular game elements mentioned are from HotFeywild and HotElementalChaos, I feel confident in saying that the Rules Compendium is in play here.

For what it's worth, the RC says that if the power doesn't specify, if it has an attack roll or deals damage, it's an attack, and if not, it's a utility. So Flurry of Blows is an attack power. You've hit on one of the few ways to get a Monk closer to hitting baseline optimized damage. Note that Blistering Flourish damage also applies to Desert Wind Flurry of Blows (again, melee attack).

[Echobeats]

A508?

@Kurald Galain and masteraleph: Which entry is this under, please? I searched the Online Compendium for a definition of "attack", and it said there had to be a roll unless the power was specifically designated an attack (e.g. Magic Missile). I would like RAW to back this up before I commit to playing with a character that may not work as intended. Is it perhaps only in the printed Compendium?

Many thanks all.

[Kurald Galain]

A508b It's in the rules compendium, yes, page 89 and 90. I don't use the online one. I believe it was also in the FAQ, but WOTC apparently took down the 4E FAQ when 5E came out.

[Necroticplague]

Q509
Is there a default maximum duration for non-stance powers?

The example I'm thinking of in specific is a Pack Outcast level 10 daily. Any reason they can't just pop it at the beginning of the day, then stay in hybrid form forever?

[eggabubu8e]

A509
I found this quote:
"If you are referring to the Pack Outcast "Soul of the Wolf" as a once a day thing well.... It is a polymorph effect not a stance, and polymorph effects don't implicitly end at the end of an encounter or 5 minutes. Polymorph effects only end when they say they end (in the power itself) or death. Soul of the Wolf states that it ends when you use a free action on your turn to make it end.

Meaning, once you turn on Soul of the Wolf, you stay in Hybrid form until you want to end it (or you die, specifically die though, not unconcious). So, first encounter of the day, turn on your 'Werewolf' form and enjoy the temps and bonuses all day. Might be a bit harder to swing in social situations though."

Maybe that helps

[SugarRush]

Q510

in combat if you have concealment/cover is making a stealth check a minor? or if you attack can you a check as part or your attack to determine if you have CA?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Q510

in combat if you have concealment/cover is making a stealth check a minor? or if you attack can you a check as part or your attack to determine if you have CA?

I recommend you read the Rules of the Hidden Club for all your 4e stealth needs.

That said, no: making a stealth check is a non-action that can only be taken at the end of any Move Action or any of your Actions (even Free Actions) during which you move. Thus, unless the power specifically allows it, you cannot make the check as part of the attack. If you are hidden from the enemy(ies) before the attack, you have CA - but you have to have been hidden beforehand.

Grey Wolf

[georgie_leech]

I recommend you read the Rules of the Hidden Club for all your 4e stealth needs.

That said, no: making a stealth check is a non-action that can only be taken at the end of any Move Action or any of your Actions (even Free Actions) during which you move. Thus, unless the power specifically allows it, you cannot make the check as part of the attack. If you are hidden from the enemy(ies) before the attack, you have CA - but you have to have been hidden beforehand.

Grey Wolf

Further, absent other rules you need Total Concealment to make a stealth check to become Hidden, though ordinary Concealment is sufficient to stay hidden.

[Laserlight]

Q511: A Pixie, being Tiny, can move into another creature's square and end its movement there (other than via forced movement). Does that work in reverse--i.e., can a monster, or my ally, move into and end movement in my pixie's square?

[masteraleph]

Q511: A Pixie, being Tiny, can move into another creature's square and end its movement there (other than via forced movement). Does that work in reverse--i.e., can a monster, or my ally, move into and end movement in my pixie's square?

A511: Yes. But note that unless it's a shift, if an enemy does it, they're leaving a square adjacent to you and provoke an OA. Also, be aware that there's good reason to want to stay 1 square up with a Pixie- if you're knocked prone, you actually fall to ground level, rather than falling prone.

Also, as a side note, the movement thing holds true with anyone who is at least 2 size categories different from you- so always true with Huge enemies, but Small characters could also potentially end up in the same square as a Large enemy.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

be aware that there's good reason to want to stay 1 square up with a Pixie- if you're knocked prone, you actually fall to ground level, rather than falling prone.

Q512

It was my understanding that as long as a pixie is flying/hovering (which it normally would do, so it can have speed 6), even at altitude 0 she would fall to ground level (e.g. to walking) and not prone. Is there RAW why this would not be the case? Because it would suggest you can't hover at altitude 0 at all, meaning that a pixie would only be able to walk at altitude 0, and thus be restricted to speed 4 along the ground.

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

[Kurald Galain]

A512 I don't think what you're saying is spelled out in the rules either way, it's one of those loopholes the designers hadn't considered.

[Echobeats]

Q512

It was my understanding that as long as a pixie is flying/hovering (which it normally would do, so it can have speed 6), even at altitude 0 she would fall to ground level (e.g. to walking) and not prone. Is there RAW why this would not be the case? Because it would suggest you can't hover at altitude 0 at all, meaning that a pixie would only be able to walk at altitude 0, and thus be restricted to speed 4 along the ground.

A512

I agree. There would have to be RAW to support the proposition that flying creatures cannot fly at altitude 0, and AFAIK there is none.

From a common sense point of view, since altitude 0 means up to 5 feet above ground, there's no obvious reason why a 9-inch-tall flying creature couldn't do so.

[Tegu8788]

Q 513

If a character used the Alchemist's Fire's power, could the attack they make be a Ranged Basic Attack? Basically, I'm curious if one can use Alchemical items to trigger Essentials features, like a Skald's Aura.

And if this is not RAW, would it be unbalancing to allow it?

[Dimers]

Q 513

If a character used the Alchemist's Fire's power, could the attack they make be a Ranged Basic Attack? Basically, I'm curious if one can use Alchemical items to trigger Essentials features, like a Skald's Aura.

And if this is not RAW, would it be unbalancing to allow it?

A 513

RAW, no; it's an area attack, not ranged.

The alchemist's fire attack has normal action economy, deals little damage in a small area, doesn't scale with character level, doesn't benefit from almost any build choice, takes up a hand (usually) without allowing further attacks, and costs money unless you take the Alchemist theme. It'd be hard to make that favorably unbalanced. There are abilities that might be potent if triggered by every hit of an area power, but that's largely edge-case territory. So I opine it wouldn't be unbalancing to add wording along these lines: "If you have this item ready to use, you may use its power in place of a ranged basic attack. Effects that trigger on hitting or missing with a ranged basic attack are resolved based on your first attack roll with the power."

[Polygoing]

Q 514

What does the feat "duelist's panache" do?
i have read that is is useful for an artful dodger rouge but cannot find its exact effect without dragon magazine issue 381 or the compendium and for that i would have to subscribe.

Sorry for taking up your time with such a small question but any help would be much appreciated.

[Gilphon]

A 514

Duelist's Panache
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Charisma 13, Rogue
Benefit: You gain your Charisma modifier as a feat bonus to Acrobatics and Athletics checks.

And don't worry, it was no trouble.

[matrix_machine]

[Q515]

Does Battlemind's demand count as an attack for the purpose of triggering item/power bonuses which trigger on "attacks"? For instance, the Wilden's Voyage of the Ancients or Bloodiron armor?

[masteraleph]

A515

1) No, it's not an attack. Attack powers either say they are attack powers, or if there's no specified power type, they include an attack roll or else deal damage. All other powers are utility powers (I'm paraphrasing page 90 in the Rules Compendium). Since BD neither calls itself an attack, nor rolls an attack roll, nor deals damage, it is a Utility.

2) Neither Voyage of the Ancients nor Bloodiron Armor would trigger in any case, even if it was labeled as an Attack power, because they both require a "hit" and there is no "hit" line. Not all attacks hit- Magic Missile, for example, has a Target line and an Effect line, but never hits, even when it deals damage.

[Felhammer]

Q516

What action is required to pick an unconscious ally up off the ground (with the intent to carry them away) while in combat?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Q516

What action is required to pick an unconscious ally up off the ground (with the intent to carry them away) while in combat?

I doubt there is RAW that specific. That said, picking up an object is a minor.

Grey Wolf