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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 466

    A. A character wishes to switch between wielding two weapons, and wielding a weapon and spiked gauntlet. Do they use merely one minor action to sheathe their off-hand weapon, or must they use two, one to sheathe the off-hand weapon and another to ready/'draw' the spiked gauntlet?

    B. Is a character wearing a nonmagical spiked gauntlet barred from using the 'hands' slot magical item, or is this clause exclusive to an enchanted gauntlet?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Q 466

    A. A character wishes to switch between wielding two weapons, and wielding a weapon and spiked gauntlet. Do they use merely one minor action to sheathe their off-hand weapon, or must they use two, one to sheathe the off-hand weapon and another to ready/'draw' the spiked gauntlet?
    A466 A.: I don't think the rules are necessarily crystal clear about this in the places they should be clear about this, but you are considered to have your hand "free" while wearing a spiked gauntlet (Martial Power 2 sidebar, pg 6). The rules also say that you can use an unarmed attack as a "weapon", and make no indication that you must "weild" your fist as a minor action to use it (which is quite sensible! PHB pg 56), and spike gauntlets are considered to be from the "unarmed" weapon group.

    So, by stringing rules together from three books, I would rule that sheathing a dagger that is held in a spiked gauntlet would allow you to then use that spike gauntlet to make attacks without needing "ready/draw" it, or in short, the scenario you describe above would only require one minor action.

    B. Is a character wearing a nonmagical spiked gauntlet barred from using the 'hands' slot magical item, or is this clause exclusive to an enchanted gauntlet?
    A466 B.: A property of spiked gauntlets is that they "occupy" the magic item hands slot only if magical; there's nothing in the rules that suggest you can't wear magical gloves underneath non-magical spiked gauntlets (AV pg 10).

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q467

    Can you charge to attack someone who is Hidden...

    (a) ...if you know exactly what square they're in before you charge (you saw them hide and know they didn't move after they hid, or an ally with better perception told you)?
    (b) ...if you technically have to guess which square they're in at the beginning of the charge, but officially will find out what square they're in at some point along the charge (either by moving so they no longer have cover or concealment, or by bumping into them)?
    (c) if you don't know officially, and won't find out during the charge (e.g. in darkness or Invisible) so have to guess their square, and guess correctly (but what happens if you guess wrong)?

    Obviously, if you take any step that does not bring you closer to the target, the action converts to a regular move action (and you probably don't find this out until you get there, right?)

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A 467

    Did this actually come up in a game? It's really, really hard to become hidden. Let me walk through that first, then I'll try to answer your question.

    Let's say the monster is invisible. It performs a move action to use stealth to become hidden. It moves 2 or fewer squares (so as not to incur a penalty to the roll) and then rolls stealth. That's the thing: it becomes hidden at the end of it's move. Eg, you already know where it is when it rolls. So how do the players NOT know where it's at? Only if it finds another way to move (eg, spends another move action, maybe it's a kobold and shifts as a minor, etc) once it is already hidden.

    Okay, so those constraints are done. It's somehow managed to roll stealth higher than everyone's passive perception and become hidden. What happens?

    If it didn't take another move action, it's hidden, but the players still know where it's at. "I saw him duck behind that wall! I'm going to circle around, as I'm betting he's still hiding behind it!" Note that, at any point, if a player gets to where he can see the monster, it's no longer hidden. (So, if the player circles around the wall, there's no longer anything blocking line of sight, so the monster is no longer hidden to that player. The easiest way to keep line of sight away? Get invisibility.)

    Okay, so CAN the players attack the square they know the monster is in, if he's hidden? Yes: at a -5 penalty because the monster has total concealment.

    The monster made his stealth roll and beat everyone but that pesky druid. The druid calls out what square he's in. Can the rogue attempt to sneak attack the monster in that square? Yes: at a -5 penalty because the monster has total concealment.

    The monster made his stealth roll and then secretly burned an action point, so the players still think he's in the original square, but he's really moved 2 spaces. The players attack the square he's no longer in. Can the players hit him? Yes: if they use a burst/blast attack that's big enough that includes the square the target is in and they have line of effect to him. So, usually not, but it CAN happen. The player using the burst/blast does not get a penalty to the attack roll. A bomb does not care that it can't see you; your only protection is to get behind a big wall. (In other words: line of sight doesn't matter, only line of effect.)

    So, in order of your questions!
    A: Yes, you are at -5 to the attack roll. (Charge still gives +1 and all other bonuses and penalties still apply.)
    B: Ummh... question hazy. Ask again later. When you charge a hidden target, you have to pick the square when you declare the charge. Did you guess correctly? Congrats, you can charge at a -5! Did you guess incorrectly but learn where he was during the charge? Congrats, you automatically miss but you can shout to your allies where he's at. Note that if you move in such a way to get rid of the cover/concealment, the target is no longer hidden so you won't be at a -5.
    C: Guess correctly and you are at -5. Guess wrong and you auto-miss.

    D: The action doesn't convert to a normal move. You still finish the charge. Remember that when you charge, you declare a target. You then move up to your speed towards the spot you've picked and make a melee basic against the target's defenses with a +1 bonus. If the target uses an immediate action to get out of the way, you can keep charging if you have movement left, but if it's hidden you have no way of knowing if it did that. So you attack the square that you picked. If it's not there, you miss. If it is there, you are still at -5. So you still follow all the normal charge moves, even though you have no idea where the target is.

    Whew. That was complicated to type up. You know what? Never mind. Ignore everything I've said. Go here: http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...ee_in_DD.?pg=1
    Read all of the first post. Three times. If you have any more questions, come back and ask! :) Or read the whole thread (haha, don't do that. Seriously, don't.)
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 468

    Hybrid Battlemind|Warlock, no boon benefits. You take the feat Psionic Scorn, which let's you regain a power point instead of your fell might. If you wouldn't get the fell might because you lack the feature, do you get the powerpoint?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A 468 No. You can't replace something that you don't have in the first place.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A' 467

    Did this actually come up in a game?
    Not as the battle was actually fought, but if the the battle had developed differently, it could have.


    The monster made his stealth roll and beat everyone but that pesky druid. The druid calls out what square he's in. Can the rogue attempt to sneak attack the monster in that square? Yes: at a -5 penalty because the monster has total concealment.
    Can't use sneak attack against an Invisible or totally concealed creature unless you have some way to counter it: sneak attack requires CA, and CA requires that you can see the creature.

    When you charge a hidden target, you have to pick the square when you declare the charge.
    That's what I was missing! Thanks!

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbody View Post
    Can't use sneak attack against an Invisible or totally concealed creature unless you have some way to counter it: sneak attack requires CA, and CA requires that you can see the creature.
    True. I was just making up an example really quickly and almost edited out the sneak attack part, forgetting about the total concealment thing. Ah well, the example still gets the point across: you can announce where a monster is so that way you are at least attacking the right square. Attacking the wrong square is an auto-miss, while at least attacking the right square is only at a -5.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 469A

    A hybrid character has to 'learn' an encounter attack power from each of their classes (basically). Is it legal to get around the restriction with the use of Reserve Maneuver feat? You still 'know' the power, you just continually substitute it for a different one that happens to be from your OTHER class.

    And while we're on the topic --

    Q 469B

    Reserve Maneuver lets you select a power from "your class". A multiclass character counts as being a member of the secondary class for purposes of "meeting prerequisites for taking other feats". So can a multiclass character effectively get two encounter powers from the secondary class, one via Reserve Maneuver and one with the normal powerswap feat?
    Last edited by Dimers; 2012-10-23 at 09:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 470

    "when you spend an action point to take an extra action you also gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls...."

    The wording confuses me. Can you spend an action point at the start of your turn, and then get the +2 bonus on all actions for that turn, or does this only work for the 1 particular extra action that you gain?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A 470 That depends on how that sentence continues after the ellipsis. Some paragon paths (e.g. Blood Mage) give you a bonus for that action only, whereas other paragon paths (e.g. Spellstorm Mage) give you a bonus for all actions until end of turn.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2012-10-24 at 10:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    A 470 That depends on how that sentence continues after the ellipsis. Some paragon paths (e.g. Blood Mage) give you a bonus for that action only, whereas other paragon paths (e.g. Spellstorm Mage) give you a bonus for all actions until end of turn.
    Says this lasts until the start of my next turn. It's for Adept of Whispers Invoker PP...

    The question is more of how Action points work. I didn't know if you could spend an action point any time, and just gain an extra action to use later in the round, or if it needed to be spent on something in particular, like a 2nd standard action.

    Can I just say on my turn, "ok I am spending an action point to gain a 2nd standard action, thus gaining the adept bonus. Now I will attack twice with my bonus on each attack."

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanize View Post
    Says this lasts until the start of my next turn. It's for Adept of Whispers Invoker PP...

    The question is more of how Action points work. I didn't know if you could spend an action point any time, and just gain an extra action to use later in the round, or if it needed to be spent on something in particular, like a 2nd standard action.

    Can I just say on my turn, "ok I am spending an action point to gain a 2nd standard action, thus gaining the adept bonus. Now I will attack twice with my bonus on each attack."
    To the original question, you get +2 to all attacks* until the start of your next turn. Yes, that means the AP attack, and the regular standard action attack if you haven't used it yet, and potentially one OA to each enemy until your turn comes around.

    AP is an extra standard action in a turn. It can be used at any time, and can be downgraded from standard to any type of action, just like a regular standard action. It has a few extra properties (IIRC, you can use an AP after charging), but at the most basic level, it is just an extra standard action in your turn.

    Yours,

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    *Edit: you actually asked "+2 to all actions". Not so. You wouldn't get +2 to skill checks, for example
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-10-24 at 12:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q471

    if a pc is prone and teleports do they appear standing afterwards?

    Q472

    if a PC is in melee combat can it move around a enemy without any issue or does it need to shift round them (am not talking about them leaving eachs others reach)

    ta
    Last edited by Ecoman; 2012-10-24 at 02:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecoman View Post
    Q471

    if a pc is prone and teleports do they appear standing afterwards?

    ta
    A471

    Not automatically, anymore that they stop being subject to every other status effect (blind, deaf, etc.). Note that there is an excepting per RAW written into creatures being grappled, and none for prone.

    There is, however, a workaround, involving teleporting into the air. If you do so, you cause yourself to fall, at which point a skill check can make you land standing up.


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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-10-24 at 02:47 PM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A471, contd. That doesn't work, for the same reason. If you fall, you can make a check to avoid becoming prone. But this doesn't change anything if you're already prone.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A 472

    If a creature leaves one of an enemy's threatened squares without shifting (or teleporting), they provoke an opportunity attack. This is true even if they leave the threatened square to move into another of the same enemy's threatened squares.

    Short answer: No, that would provoke OAs.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A471 addendum: while falling to become standing doesn't usually work (ie, falling and taking 0 damage), many magic items and effects say "always land on your feet" (such as the Ring of Feather Falling).

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 472

    The quick Draw feat gives +2 to initiative.
    Wood elves can make a perception check in place of initiative.
    Does the +2 apply to a perception check for initiative?


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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A472

    No. When you are rolling Perception in place of initiative, you are not rolling initiative. You are rolling Perception and using it in place of initiative.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 472b (follow up)

    Is there a source for that? I looked up initiative in the glossary of the Rules Compendium (to determine whether initiative is the bonus, or the end result), and it wasn't in there.

    ~EDIT~
    My main source of confusion is that you still have an initiative at the start of the encounter. Whatever you roll for your perception is your initiative.
    Last edited by shamgar001; 2012-10-24 at 09:35 PM.


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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 473 What are the exact rules on taking/replacing daily/encounter/utility powers when you level up? If you don't like one in the current level, can you choose an older one? What about when you take a Paragon path and you have no choice? Can you replace the level 12 utility power with a level 10?

    I am reading a guide and the guide makes it sound like you can, but it is not very clear.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    A473

    When you level up, you can choose any power of the correct type (encounter attack, daily attack, utility) that is your level or lower. So, for example, a level 9 fighter gets his third daily attack power. If he doesn't like any of the level 9 options, he can instead take a level 1 or 5 daily attack power.

    If you want to retrain a power, you have to make sure that the levels of the powers line up to be equal to or less than the levels you gained the powers. So the fighter above could have level 1, 5, and 9 daily powers (or 1, 5, 5 or 1, 1, 5, or 1, 1, 9, or even 1, 1, 1) but he could not retrain to get three level 5's because at least one of them must be level 1, another must be 5 or less, and the last must be 9 or less.

    The big exception to this rule is paragon path powers and epic destiny powers. Those you are stuck with. You can't take another power of lower level in their place nor can you retrain it later.
    Last edited by dariathalon; 2012-10-24 at 10:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by shamgar001 View Post
    Q 472b (follow up)

    Is there a source for that? I looked up initiative in the glossary of the Rules Compendium (to determine whether initiative is the bonus, or the end result), and it wasn't in there.

    ~EDIT~
    My main source of confusion is that you still have an initiative at the start of the encounter. Whatever you roll for your perception is your initiative.
    Let me use an example. Let's pretend you are level 20 (so 1/2 level is 10) with a Dex of 14 (so +2 modifier) with Improved Initiative (so +4). That's +16 to your Initiative.

    You are trained in Perception (+5), with a background that gives +2, a Wisdom of 20 (+5), and you are an Elf (+2). That puts you at +24 perception.

    Sense Threat reads: "When you roll initiative, you can make a Perception check and use its result for your initiative check."

    So, you can roll initiative. You have a +16. You can also roll Perception and use that FOR your initiative. If you do that, you are at +24. Here's the thing: if you roll Perception and use it for initiative, you aren't rolling initiative. You are rolling perception and using it for initiative. So improved init (+4 to init) doesn't add to your perception roll, but skill focus (perception) would.

    I'm trying to clarify this as best I can but failing pretty bad. Do you understand where the disconnect is?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by dariathalon View Post
    The big exception to this rule is paragon path powers and epic destiny powers. Those you are stuck with. You can't take another power of lower level in their place nor can you retrain it later.
    The Reserve Maneuver feat says hi.

    Otherwise, yes, you are correct.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrudisi View Post
    The Reserve Maneuver feat says hi.
    Speaking of which -- any comment on Q469?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Sorry, I guess we missed that 1.5

    A 469a

    Yes, this should work. Reserve Maneuver doesn't actually replace the original power when it's "inactive."

    A 469b

    No, because multiclassing doesn't make you actually be a member of the class you MC into. It just makes you be treated as a member of that class for certain purposes, which isn't the same thing.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by dariathalon View Post
    A473

    When you level up, you can choose any power of the correct type (encounter attack, daily attack, utility) that is your level or lower. So, for example, a level 9 fighter gets his third daily attack power. If he doesn't like any of the level 9 options, he can instead take a level 1 or 5 daily attack power.

    If you want to retrain a power, you have to make sure that the levels of the powers line up to be equal to or less than the levels you gained the powers. So the fighter above could have level 1, 5, and 9 daily powers (or 1, 5, 5 or 1, 1, 5, or 1, 1, 9, or even 1, 1, 1) but he could not retrain to get three level 5's because at least one of them must be level 1, another must be 5 or less, and the last must be 9 or less.

    The big exception to this rule is paragon path powers and epic destiny powers. Those you are stuck with. You can't take another power of lower level in their place nor can you retrain it later.
    Addendum: At least in PHB1, there was a problem whereby you could only retrain a given power to a power of the same level or lower. So, by PHB1 RAW, if you picked up a second level 1 daily power at level 5, you could never retrain either to a level 5 daily power.

    I suspect next to nobody on the planet ever played that way, and they may have patched it since.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Q 473

    Question... I know most things don't stack, but I find it odd that 1 shaman class feature is practically identical to a paragon path feature.

    lvl 1 protector spirit feature. Spirit boon: any ally adj. to your spirit companion regains additional hp equal to con mod when they use a second wind or when you use a healing power on him or her.

    lvl 11 Scarred Healer path. Scar's gift. When you use a primal healing power on a target adj. to spirit comp the target regains add. hp equal to con mod.

    So, as long as the ability used is both healing and primal, which both quote often are, they should be getting double the con mod boost?
    Last edited by Mechanize; 2012-10-26 at 06:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanize View Post
    Q 473

    Question... I know most things don't stack, but I find it odd that 1 shaman class feature is practically identical to a paragon path feature.

    lvl 1 protector spirit feature. Spirit boon: any ally adj. to your spirit companion regains additional hp equal to con mod when they use a second wind or when you use a healing power on him or her.

    lvl 11 Scarred Healer path. Scar's gift. When you use a primal healing power on a target adj. to spirit comp the target regains add. hp equal to con mod.

    So, as long as the ability used is both healing and primal, which both quote often are, they should be getting double the con mod boost?
    A478

    Based on what you typed, yes. They both appear to be untyped bonuses. All bonuses stack unless they are of the same type or they are both untyped and from the same named game element. In this case, they are both untyped and from different named game elements (Scar's Gift and Spirit Boon), so they stack.
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