League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo

[PersonMan]

So, I've been playing Bruiser Fizz.

I keep getting 2v1 tops, which is annoying, but I get fed anyways, so it's fine.

Spoiler

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Highlight: At the very end Trynd suicide-attacked their Nexus and died. Ashe just kind of derped around in their base and died, too. This was while Veigar and I were walking up mid lane. They had nothing but bot inhibitor at this point. Superminions are fighting a fresh wave of their minions in the base.

I say 'screw it' and rush in, using trollpole and trolldash and trollfish and trollhealingdenial to moderately damage all 5 of the enemy before they kill me. One second later, the superminions from top finish off the Nexus.

My only regret is that I forgot to report our Ashe. Honestly, her complaining and decision to suddenly stop helping killed me at least once. Ironically enough, she was telling them to report everyone else on our team. Except me, she added. Right after she said 'I'll help you, Fizz, only you' right as I died, with her farming wraiths nearby.

Oh, well, it was fun. Interestingly enough, I got exactly the same amount of gold as I got in the custom game where I tested out the build I use now.

[Mephit]

Hecarim; should be he built as pure AD, Tank, or a little of both?

Pure AD isn't a good idea, he's not that naturally tanky and he really gets in there with his skills. When I played him, I went Wriggles->Phage on him, then build it into Mallet or Triforce. Worked just fine.

Who of you fellas plays on EUW? I'm tired of havin bad ping so I'm leveling an account there now.

[Eldariel]

Pure AD isn't a good idea, he's not that naturally tanky and he really gets in there with his skills. When I played him, I went Wriggles->Phage on him, then build it into Mallet or Triforce. Worked just fine.

Who of you fellas plays on EUW? I'm tired of havin bad ping so I'm leveling an account there now.

Hm, yours truly, Adumbration, Winterwind and Bunny of Faith are fairly active; also occasional visits from BanelingAspect. I think Winthur is leveling an EUW account too. All the account info should be in the OP.

[Talesin]

Pure AD isn't a good idea, he's not that naturally tanky and he really gets in there with his skills. When I played him, I went Wriggles->Phage on him, then build it into Mallet or Triforce. Worked just fine.

Who of you fellas plays on EUW? I'm tired of havin bad ping so I'm leveling an account there now.

There's a list of us in the first post.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Adumbration]

TIL, Trodnomere beats Riven in lane. You might not think so, but he does.

[Qwertystop]

Morde:

Good as AP.

Looks like an invulnerable tank.

DOES NOT HAVE ANY CC.

GAAAAAAAAHHHH...

How many times have I died early game forgetting that he's actually made of aluminum foil and dark gray paint...

[J.Gellert]

Pure AD isn't a good idea, he's not that naturally tanky and he really gets in there with his skills. When I played him, I went Wriggles->Phage on him, then build it into Mallet or Triforce. Worked just fine.

Who of you fellas plays on EUW? I'm tired of havin bad ping so I'm leveling an account there now.

Wriggle's huh. What about Madred's?

Trinity Force always is on my to-do list, but he isn't all that survivable with just Phage. So I have been wondering about grabbing a faster Sunfire cape, but haven't tried it.

And Morde's a champion I am great with so I can comment; Build tanky. With Rylai's, you increase your health and your threat level, and you get a mild CC at the same time.

And don't ever stay in a sustained fight early on - Morde fights by running around and stopping only when the CD of one of his abilities is ready, then keeps running until another CD is ready, etc. The slow from Rylai's helps in doing this.

[Qwertystop]

Wriggle's huh. What about Madred's?

Trinity Force always is on my to-do list, but he isn't all that survivable with just Phage. So I have been wondering about grabbing a faster Sunfire cape, but haven't tried it.

And Morde's a champion I am great with so I can comment; Build tanky. With Rylai's, you increase your health and your threat level, and you get a mild CC at the same time.

And don't ever stay in a sustained fight early on - Morde fights by running around and stopping only when the CD of one of his abilities is ready, then keeps running until another CD is ready, etc. The slow from Rylai's helps in doing this.

Really? I would have thought that since he's all AoE except the ult (which is only really when they're dead), Rylais is bad...

My current build is boots-pots, revolver, book-thing that you get from revolver, skull-thing that builds out of gp/5 knife, deathcap, situational defensive.

[Eldariel]

Wriggle's huh. What about Madred's?

Trinity Force always is on my to-do list, but he isn't all that survivable with just Phage. So I have been wondering about grabbing a faster Sunfire cape, but haven't tried it.

And Morde's a champion I am great with so I can comment; Build tanky. With Rylai's, you increase your health and your threat level, and you get a mild CC at the same time.

And don't ever stay in a sustained fight early on - Morde fights by running around and stopping only when the CD of one of his abilities is ready, then keeps running until another CD is ready, etc. The slow from Rylai's helps in doing this.

The important part of Tanky is the "Tanky AP". Sorcs and Abyssal are pretty amazing on him. Cap and Void are consideration-worthy too. And obviously Will first and foremost, or possibly Gunblade now that Will became far less efficient. Revolver, anyways.

[J.Gellert]

Abyssal is awesome on Morde, I get it every time. Rabadon's I never seem to be able to squeeze in, but after a point more AP doesn't matter.

Morde's AP damage comes in short, quick bursts, so you can err on the side of tankiness; if you stay alive longer, you get to cast and re-cast more spells, resulting in more damage overall.

And don't be afraid to throw your Ult on their tank. If that's what it takes to keep you alive, then you didn't waste it. It's nice to save it until their carry is almost dead, but that's often a luxury.

[Joran]

Hate to break it to you, but um. You sir have been trolled.

Trolling on the OotS forum? You sir are clearly mistaken, no one would take advantage of the -10 to sarcasm/trolling detection here!

[Volatar]

Sucked up my pride and bought Taric. I now officially own all the real supports. (Teemo is not a support champion Riot.)

With that done I can both branch out and get more champions, or grab some runes. I don't feel any pressing need for more champion variety (still own a couple that I have not played), so runes it is.

My rune pages are as follows (named quite simply)

Reds/Yellows/Blues/Quints
MPen/MP5perLevel/MR/AP
ArPen/MP5perLevel/MR/HP
MPen/Armor/MR/AP
ArPen/Armor/MR/HP

My two magic pages seem to be working for me just fine, but I think I want to switch the two physical pages around. HP quints were my first quints as they were very general. Those probably bear replacing. I might replace the reds as well but those are of secondary priority.

The question is: AD or AS? I don't generally play junglers, mostly just AD carries. AS looks like it ends up with a slightly higher DPS and would benefit Ashe's Q and such, but AD would be real nice for last hitting and would benefit more abilities (Ashe's W, Sivir's everything...)

[tyckspoon]

I'd go with AD (or, since you're thinking about replacing quints, Movespeed. You can never have enough Movespeed, especially for a highly positioning-dependent role like AD carry.) Runes have their highest impact at low levels, before items overpower their influence, and at those levels you typically aren't making use of Attack Speed very much- you're firing one shot to last hit a minion, maybe one or two shots as harass. Most of the damage you're doing to things is in abilities and burst hits, which favors AD.

[Volatar]

I'd go with AD (or, since you're thinking about replacing quints, Movespeed. You can never have enough Movespeed, especially for a highly positioning-dependent role like AD carry.) Runes have their highest impact at low levels, before items overpower their influence, and at those levels you typically aren't making use of Attack Speed very much- you're firing one shot to last hit a minion, maybe one or two shots as harass. Most of the damage you're doing to things is in abilities and burst hits, which favors AD.

I did not consider Movespeed Quints. Thanks for reminding me of those. Definitely an option.

[Eldariel]

The question is: AD or AS? I don't generally play junglers, mostly just AD carries. AS looks like it ends up with a slightly higher DPS and would benefit Ashe's Q and such, but AD would be real nice for last hitting and would benefit more abilities (Ashe's W, Sivir's everything...)

AD is usually the way to go; low levels, it actually tends to give you more DPS (especially without Doran's Sword), and more importantly many trades involve just exchanging single shots where ASpd has no bearing upon anything. Also, AD-scaling abilities are fairly common; just about every AD has at least one (Volley, Peacemaker, Condemn, Tumble, etc.).

[Lix Lorn]

Morde:

Good as AP.

Looks like an invulnerable tank.

DOES NOT HAVE ANY CC.

GAAAAAAAAHHHH...

How many times have I died early game forgetting that he's actually made of aluminum foil and dark gray paint...

Oh man I know that feeling.
GIANT ARMORED FIGURE
Is actually a squishy.

I have a huge tendency to play tanks/tankyDPS characters and then forget that at level 1, I am the squishy. It's me.

[super dark33]

I join the club of people who were tricked by Mordekaiser.

Cho'Gath is teh awesoems.
feral scream at first level, Phantom dance, warmonger armor and guardiangel, at 6th feast,
BIBLICLY PROPORTIONS!

Varus is amazing, i like him.
I miss Talon.... he is as awesome as Cho'gath.
My brother liked Olaf a lot.
Does anyone know how Kassadin is good? i would love to try it.
I hope all Lol champions would be as polite as Malaphite:

"Okay."
"Im going."

instead of:

"Blah blah honor/dishonor blah blah weapon blah blah element blah enemy"

[Eldariel]

Does anyone know how Kassadin is good? i would love to try it.

Bruiser builds hover around but he's still most consistently performing as a Mage. His laning is kinda difficult against ADs but he does well against any Mages.

His pre-6 game is mediocre, but once he gets his ultimate he becomes an incredibly gamechanging champion especially if enemy lacks instant point'n'click CC due to his decent damage and superb mobility; he can chase anyone, escape from just about anyone and has lots of CC combined with decent damage.

[Mephit]

AD or Armor Pen runes are generally favored on most AD characters. Exceptions exist, such as Phoenix Udyr, Skarner, or Warwick, who have specific abilities that proc on attacks and therefore benefit from more attacks per second.

I hope all Lol champions would be as polite as Malaphite:

"Okay."

Try Rammus.

[Math_Mage]

Learning, always learning. For example, today I learned that Kennen with Wota+Zhonya's and already transitioning to late-game should buy Deathcap instead of Rylai's because then he can initiate properly on the enemy squishies with a chance to kill, instead of waiting around to get arrowed. And really, I should have known that already, and been initiating anyway.

---

With the most recent patch, Kassadin's default build would seem to be RoA, Grail, Cap, AA Staff, Void Staff, and Sorcs/Treads. Remember to gank everything once you hit six, your opposite number included. Blue buff is mandatory.

---

One other benefit of AD runes for AD carries that hasn't been mentioned is ease of last-hitting. I smurfed recently and remembered why last-hitting without runes (and masteries) sucks so much.

That said, Apen reds are generally superior for AA damage to champions, if I remember the math correctly. I know Aphromoo picked that out as the reason he uses Apen on Varus. Well, that and Varus already has good last-hitting with Blighted Quiver.

Movespeed quints I'd consider on Ashe, Sivir, Vayne, Caitlyn, and possibly Kog. Those are the champions that like to kite/poke in lane trades and don't have great escapes. Still, I'd probably end up taking AD.

[Eldariel]

AD or Armor Pen runes are generally favored on most AD characters. Exceptions exist, such as Phoenix Udyr, Skarner, or Warwick, who have specific abilities that proc on attacks and therefore benefit from more attacks per second.

It's rather, most ranged carries prefer AD/ArPen while most non-AD caster bruisers prefer ASpd (Shyvana, Shen, Udyr, Skarner, WW, Cho'Gath, Mundo, Irelia, Jax, Kayle, Nocturne off the top of my head). Then AD casters again prefer AD/ArPen.

[Volatar]

AD it is then. Thanks guys.

[TechnOkami]

So, I can play Riven. The only downside is that I still can't quite do the Renek, but crocodile is sadly no Riven, hands down.

Although I do need to ask this just so I won't try to repeat myself (although I promptly stomped through their team afterwards).

How would Riven best fight a Darius in lane, solo top?

[Istari]

I've found leveling her shield is critical, try to harass by dashing in, stun, do some damage with Q and get out, you have to be careful, but as long as you can engage on your terms you can get the better of them in harass.

[Reinboom]

How would Riven best fight a Darius in lane, solo top?

Switch lanes.

Alternative:
Don't dash in. You have speed, Darius doesn't. Make sure you have movement (start with boots, get Move speed quints), and jump in to harass and farm then reserve your dash for both getting out and eating his passive damage.

[Eldariel]

So, I can play Riven. The only downside is that I still can't quite do the Renek, but crocodile is sadly no Riven, hands down.

Although I do need to ask this just so I won't try to repeat myself (although I promptly stomped through their team afterwards).

How would Riven best fight a Darius in lane, solo top?

I haven't played the lane myself. But my tactic would be to attempt uneven exchanges with the last charge of Q (precast the other 2) + W for a 1.5 second disable about, saving E for escape out of the Apprehend range, repeat when cooldowns are up.

[Arbitrarity]

I'd think Riven should take advantage of Darius's early damage (before he can Apprehend her back), then I remembered Hemorrhage.

Hemorrhage is completely ridiculous.
Who thought that 12+0.4 bonus AD was remotely acceptable amounts of bonus on-hit magic damage that also gets applied by abilities. WHO THOUGHT THAT. It's a DOT, but unless you're attacking targets with 5 stacks already, you effectively add ((current stacks*time since last application of Hemorrhage/5)+1)*(12+0.4 AD). And it scales up fairly decently with levels. It's like having Runic Blade on every attack AND spell, except better.

Like... if Riven gets a full 3 autos+Broken Wings on Darius at level 1, and Darius responds with a good Decimate and 3 autos, (21/9/0 flat AD red/quint, 3s engagement duration), Riven deals 398 damage, Darius gets 416 or so. After that, every auto Darius gets swings the trade massively in his favor; one auto adds 130 (WHAT. THIS IS LEVEL 1) damage, compared to 75 for Riven. Realistically, Riven can probably avoid taking 3 AA's in retaliation, given Broken Wings resetting AA's, but it's still awful.

Once you include Crippling Strike and Apprehend, it becomes impossible for Riven to win any sort of extended trade. At level 4, Riven full combo is available; if she gets 5 AA's and uses all her abilities, she gets 728 damage (and shields 80). If Darius does the same (compensates for Ki Burst and BW last hit stuns with AA reset on Crippling Strike, maybe Apprehend), he gets 845 damage.

Since Darius can't start fights except with Apprehend, which he'll save for yanking you back, however, he can't actually touch Riven in lane with anything other than Decimate. Admittedly, you can't tank Decimates forever, but that's not much scarier than Renekton. Except that you can win extended fights with Renekton, and Darius destroys you there.

Riven ought to be able to win with her "safe" exchanges; Ki Burst/Broken Wings for 1.5s stun and 1-2 AA's is safe enough you won't take more than a Decimate, which is a pretty good health trade (200 damage vs 350 at level 4). If he Apprehends for the extra AA, you can win trades for the next 20s, and just Valor away (if you get it before he lands his AA, you come out way ahead; if not, you still are a bit ahead). His mana pool won't support using Crippling Strike as well every 10s, so you should be good. Bit tricky to actually land both of those, unless Darius is really spoiling for a fight.

Not sure precisely though, since I haven't played the matchup. Does anyone good at top lane have Darius, or should I go and hunt through games?

[TechnOkami]

So, I have a tactic against Darius top as Riven.

Give the Darius 4 kills, make him think that you're incompetent, then aid in team fights by running in and getting kills, proceed to go legendary and just steamroll over their dead bodies. Then kite them from their second middle tower and proceed to Ace their team.

It worked with me.

[Eldariel]

In today's news: Scarra showcases how to fail everything forever at AP Kog'Maw.

So, starts well, gets 3 Gold/10s and Tear (since mite as well, AP Kog doesn't really need items outside mana). Rod of Ages second, ok, fine, you want even more mana and some tankiness. Then Morello's Evil Tome, Archangel's Staff and Deathcap. Now we have 3 items with no defensive stats nor any useful offensive stats aside from enough AP to give you about 100 damage per ult. Then Voidstaff. Your team is winning until enemy team's Nocturne ults you every fight, Malphite Flash->Ults and Alistar follows up and Karthus ult.

Now, first of all, when you're playing AP Kog, you get Rylai's. It's not negotiable; it's the second core item aside from Tear. Without it, it's impossible to land a good sequence of shots without very forced movement lategame since champions are simply too fast. With it, just plain killing someone who gets hit once is easy.

Second of all, 3 items that give you only AP are not useful when your AP ratio is 0.3. Get defensive stuff. Get auras. Get penetration. Bloody hell, don't get flat AP. You die to Nocturne + Karthus? If only there was one item that does a ton against both. Did you say Hourglass? I sure did. Guardian Angel could be useful but at least get the damn Hourglass. Hell, it even has tons of AP. Sigh.


And this is how you lose a won game with a completely ridiculously strong composition; failbuild everything forever, end the game with 10k in bank and nothing to spend it on.

[Math_Mage]

Random Xin musings: Wriggle's, Spark, Brutalizer, tanky? Like, could it work?

In today's news: Scarra showcases how to fail everything forever at AP Kog'Maw.

So, starts well, gets 3 Gold/10s and Tear (since mite as well, AP Kog doesn't really need items outside mana). Rod of Ages second, ok, fine, you want even more mana and some tankiness. Then Morello's Evil Tome, Archangel's Staff and Deathcap. Now we have 3 items with no defensive stats nor any useful offensive stats aside from enough AP to give you about 100 damage per ult. Then Voidstaff. Your team is winning until enemy team's Nocturne ults you every fight, Malphite Flash->Ults and Alistar follows up and Karthus ult.

Now, first of all, when you're playing AP Kog, you get Rylai's. It's not negotiable; it's the second core item aside from Tear. Without it, it's impossible to land a good sequence of shots without very forced movement lategame since champions are simply too fast. With it, just plain killing someone who gets hit once is easy.

Second of all, 3 items that give you only AP are not useful when your AP ratio is 0.3. Get defensive stuff. Get auras. Get penetration. Bloody hell, don't get flat AP. You die to Nocturne + Karthus? If only there was one item that does a ton against both. Did you say Hourglass? I sure did. Guardian Angel could be useful but at least get the damn Hourglass. Hell, it even has tons of AP. Sigh.


And this is how you lose a won game with a completely ridiculously strong composition; failbuild everything forever, end the game with 10k in bank and nothing to spend it on.

Honestly, I wouldn't earlypick Kog precisely because of that kind of counterpicking. Tear, Rylai's, Zhonya's, Void Staff gives you a shot, but he just seems so vulnerable.