What is Nale's Plan?

[Kievan King]

Howdy, Playground

I'm actually a little bit surprised that this subject has (to my knowledge) not yet appeared on the boards, given the scope and breadth of the speculation that we like to get up to around here. That said, what is Nale's plan? For all of his villainous foibles, he is a pretty smart guy, so I'm curious where he sees himself fitting into this whole gates/possible apocalypse scenario. He knows the purpose of the gates, and he is also aware of all of the significant players, including team evil and their plan. Where does he see himself in the end-game? Surely he's smart enough to know he can't beat Xykon to take control of the gates. I've been speculating that he might have a plan to outsmart him, but it seems like an outside chance and I think Nale would probably realize that as well.

So I now open up the floor to speculation of any kind on the subject. Knowing that a vastly superior force of evil is pursuing essentially the same goal as him (and as we know, holding a preference for being the center of attention), what could Nale be planning to do regarding the gates?

[Steward]

I don't really get it either. I have this vague notion that he hopes to gain control of a gate somehow and use it as leverage to either team up with or extinguish Xykon.

I've heard speculation that Malack and Zz'tdri, being a divine and arcane caster, may be able to do the ritual on their own if they had it, but that can't be Nale's plan since he has no reason to think that Malack would want to help him rule the world or, until recently, even thought that he would have access to Malack under any circumstances.

[Math_Mage]

Howdy, Playground

I'm actually a little bit surprised that this subject has (to my knowledge) not yet appeared on the boards, given the scope and breadth of the speculation that we like to get up to around here. That said, what is Nale's plan? For all of his villainous foibles, he is a pretty smart guy, so I'm curious where he sees himself fitting into this whole gates/possible apocalypse scenario. He knows the purpose of the gates, and he is also aware of all of the significant players, including team evil and their plan. Where does he see himself in the end-game? Surely he's smart enough to know he can't beat Xykon to take control of the gates. I've been speculating that he might have a plan to outsmart him, but it seems like an outside chance and I think Nale would probably realize that as well.

So I now open up the floor to speculation of any kind on the subject. Knowing that a vastly superior force of evil is pursuing essentially the same goal as him (and as we know, holding a preference for being the center of attention), what could Nale be planning to do regarding the gates?

He knows the purpose of the gates, he knows who TE is, but he plainly isn't aware of TE's purpose for the gates. I'm also not certain he knows just how much TE outclasses him, unless OtOoPCs has something I don't know about.

I find it heavily ironic that Nale's about to get embroiled in a 3- or 4-way confrontation over the Gate, when he explicitly left Azure City in order to avoid that outcome. Given his complete failure on that front, I doubt he's really ready for Team Evil to show up. He probably hopes to get rid of Tarquin/Malack and the Order here, and probably hasn't planned past that.

[theNater]

Nale thinks that once he's on top of the gate, he can use it in the way Xykon plans to use it. After he has the Snarl at his beck and call, Xykon will be small potatoes.

[Peelee]

I think Nale's pretty much playing things by ear at the moment. His attack on the OotS in the Empire of Blood was pretty spur-of-the-moment and unplanned, and he's been in pretty deep since then. He turned invisible, tried to spy, got caught, and from there seems (to me, at least) that all the talk of the Gates and possibly controlling them was Nale simply verbally dancing for his life. The whole thing was a stall tactic to save his own butt, which happened to open up an opportunity to kill the Order as well.

As always, I could be completely wrong, but I'm very much of the impression that Nale has been flying by the seat of his pants for some time now.

[Steward]

I think Nale's pretty much playing things by ear at the moment. His attack on the OotS in the Empire of Blood was pretty spur-of-the-moment and unplanned, and he's been in pretty deep since then. He turned invisible, tried to spy, got caught, and from there seems (to me, at least) that all the talk of the Gates and possibly controlling them was Nale simply verbally dancing for his life. The whole thing was a stall tactic to save his own butt, which happened to open up an opportunity to kill the Order as well.

As always, I could be completely wrong, but I'm very much of the impression that Nale has been flying by the seat of his pants for some time now.

That's a good point. I forgot that nothing that happened since the ambush was desired by Nale. Again, in order to control the gates Nale knows he needs a ritual. I'm not sure if he knows about the arcane/divine thing.

[BaronOfHell]

I have no clue regarding Nale's yet unrevealed plans for accomplishing his goals, but I can list the goals as I understood them, chronologically, from Nale's perspective assuming the information from the comic is correct (such as Tarquin's story).

Goals:
Known ruler of a state (From Tarquin's story)
Overthrow Tarquin (From the Dungeons of Dorukan and Dorukan's Talisman story).
Destroy Elan (From Dungeons of Dorukan story)
Destroy OOTS (Can't remember where it changed, or maybe it was always this).
Take control over a gate

It's funny to think that if Nale had not decided to destroy Elan, his team might have been fighting along with the order when defeating Xykon in dungeons of Dorukan and had he survived the fight, he might had stopped Elan from touching the rune and could be in control of a gate by now. At least for the weeks Xykon regenerated.

[cloudland]

What I didn't get is why isn't Nale teleporting away already? He obviously is after the gate himself, but is not willing to have Xykon have his hand on it. And yet he can't do anything about it, and now if anyone who is not TE is going to take advantage of the gate, it's going to be Tarquin and he know it. So...could it be that Nale is planning to destroy the gate himself?

[Finagle]

Yeah, Nale's plan is "not get murdered by Malack." Do we remember when he was about *this close* to dying?

[Steward]

It's funny to think that if Nale had not decided to destroy Elan, his team might have been fighting along with the order when defeating Xykon in dungeons of Dorukan and had he survived the fight, he might had stopped Elan from touching the rune and could be in control of a gate by now. At least for the weeks Xykon regenerated.

That's true, but Nale never intended to help the Order vanquish Xykon. Xykon in fact hired Nale to kill the Order of the Stick, which he was only happy to do in any event after he obtained his Dorukan's talisman. He might have been willing to add Elan to his Linear Guild but not the rest of the Order, who he planned on eliminating, and he was never interested in fighting Xykon at all.

[Kievan King]

Another thought just occurred to me after reading these: maybe he just hopes to "point" Xykon at his father in the hopes that it will weaken the blood/sweat/tears axis and "hasten his inheritance." Maybe he just plans for something more small-scale like conquering a continent and seizing some serious (but not world-threatening power). Whatever the case may be, I would definitely agree that he has been forced to do too much improvising and is now in way over his head. It's more than possible that he's pursuing some fleeting advantage, but my gut tells me he has something bigger planned.

Also, is it just me, or are Tarquin and Malack definitely planning to kill Nale? (probably already a thread)

[Math_Mage]

Another thought just occurred to me after reading these: maybe he just hopes to "point" Xykon at his father in the hopes that it will weaken the blood/sweat/tears axis and "hasten his inheritance." Maybe he just plans for something more small-scale like conquering a continent and seizing some serious (but not world-threatening power). Whatever the case may be, I would definitely agree that he has been forced to do too much improvising and is now in way over his head. It's more than possible that he's pursuing some fleeting advantage, but my gut tells me he has something bigger planned.

Also, is it just me, or are Tarquin and Malack definitely planning to kill Nale? (probably already a thread)

Nale has no idea of the timing involved for Team Evil. That's a pie-in-the-sky plan if I ever heard one.

And yes, T+M definitely have an agreement that Nale's gonna meet a nasty end. Doesn't mean T's gonna strictly live up to it, though. If Tarquin lets Nale live, and lets Malack believe he genuinely tried to kill Nale, it's a win-win for him.

[Ron Miel]

That said, what is Nale's plan? ... he is a pretty smart guy, ...

Erm, no.

What gives you that idea?

[Math_Mage]

Erm, no.

What gives you that idea?

He's smart enough to engineer over-complicated plans to enact petty vengeance for imagined slights.

He's just not wise enough NOT to.

Let's be fair, his victories in the previous two arcs were averted by awful luck alone. (The fact that his second 'victory' probably would have gotten him killed aside.) For all his schemes were ludicrous, they worked. They were just too complicated to be airtight.

He doesn't have to be at Tarquin's level, or V's, to qualify as 'a pretty smart guy'.

[Gift Jeraff]

Erm, no.

What gives you that idea?

"Oh, he was intelligent, but some of the most intelligent otters I've ever known were completely lacking in common sense." ~The Wise One

[Forikroder]

Howdy, Playground

I'm actually a little bit surprised that this subject has (to my knowledge) not yet appeared on the boards, given the scope and breadth of the speculation that we like to get up to around here. That said, what is Nale's plan? For all of his villainous foibles, he is a pretty smart guy, so I'm curious where he sees himself fitting into this whole gates/possible apocalypse scenario. He knows the purpose of the gates, and he is also aware of all of the significant players, including team evil and their plan. Where does he see himself in the end-game? Surely he's smart enough to know he can't beat Xykon to take control of the gates. I've been speculating that he might have a plan to outsmart him, but it seems like an outside chance and I think Nale would probably realize that as well.

So I now open up the floor to speculation of any kind on the subject. Knowing that a vastly superior force of evil is pursuing essentially the same goal as him (and as we know, holding a preference for being the center of attention), what could Nale be planning to do regarding the gates?

pretty smart? all his plans have boiled down to "do a frontal assault" the msot complicated plan hes ever done is "make sure there split up then do a frontal assault"

all his plans can be summed up with one line from Roy
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0060.html
grab your bizaro twin and beat the living hell out of him

as for his immediate plan, well first hes gonna get the OoTS seperated (which they do by themselves anyway) and have his team grab there bizzaro twin and beat the living hell out of them

then using his "massive intellect" hell figure out how to control the snarl on his own cause he actually thinks hes that smart

He's smart enough to engineer over-complicated plans to enact petty vengeance for imagined slights.

i dont know how overly complicated his schemes really were, the OoTS pretty mcuh did it all for him by being completely willing to split up at cliffport and in the EoB, the only thing that was needlessly complicated was his plan to take Elans place and try to sneak attack some order members which again the OoTS pretty mcuh did for him by completeing ignoring everything he said

[coineineagh]

Ever since their first meeting, it has been clear that Nale and the LG were designed as 'evil opposites'. Nale has to be petty, vengeful and scheming in order for the animosity to remain plausible.
The OotS gets to play innocent, like Schwarzenegger and Jackie Chan do in so many movies: "Leave me alone!" [corresponding accent required]
Only after significant coaxing, will the innocent action heroes show their stuff.
Nale says it best: "I know that if you want them to do something, you need to prod them now and then. Otherwise, they'll just stand around talking until they fill up like eight pages with speech balloons."
I fear for Nale now... the comic is maturing a great deal, and the LG just seems out of place, with everything else being so serious and involved. Perhaps the Giant feels that Nale is a storytelling crutch that he hasn't needed in a long time.. Tarquin is the new Nale

As for what will happen: who knows? Nale did work with Xykon in the past, so there's no reason TE and LG can't cooperate again. If that's so, OotS is not prepared for the battle, and will likely need rescuing. If it Lee, Nero and Cedrik coming to the rescue again, I'm gonna laugh!!

[Gift Jeraff]

all his plans can be summed up with one line from Roy
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0060.html
grab your bizaro twin and beat the living hell out of him

And yet, V never even met Pompey. And Sabine didn't fight Haley in Cliffport. And the Thog vs. Roy/Haley battle in Cliffport was irrelevant to his plan. And his first plan involved monsters fighting for him. And Yukyuk was trying to kill V, not Belkar...

[veti]

As for what will happen: who knows? Nale did work with Xykon in the past, so there's no reason TE and LG can't cooperate again.

That's a good point - I'd forgotten that Nale has actually met, spoken to and dealt with Xykon in the past.

So one possible plan would be for him to try to team up with Xykon again (if and when he shows up), in the hopes that Xykon will take out Tarquin, Malack, and the OOTS.

[Math_Mage]

pretty smart? all his plans have boiled down to "do a frontal assault" the msot complicated plan hes ever done is "make sure there split up then do a frontal assault"

all his plans can be summed up with one line from Roy
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0060.html
grab your bizaro twin and beat the living hell out of him

as for his immediate plan, well first hes gonna get the OoTS seperated (which they do by themselves anyway) and have his team grab there bizzaro twin and beat the living hell out of them

then using his "massive intellect" hell figure out how to control the snarl on his own cause he actually thinks hes that smart

There was no frontal assault plan in the first confrontation. That was forced after the lucky arrow ruined his plan, which involved deception followed by backstabbing (frontstabbing, rather) followed by a hasty retreat. As you say, it was ROY'S idea to match the bizarro twins against each other. Nale even takes pains to switch away from fighting Elan.

There was no frontal assault plan in the second confrontation. There was a diversion that served as cover for Nale to frame Elan and take his place, following weeks of serial murder as a setup, and an overly complicated kidnapping as setup for the diversion.

I'm puzzled as to how you reach the conclusion that frontal assault is even an important part of Nale's strategy, let alone the ONLY part.

[DBear]

Why do you all think Nale HAS a plan? Nale's not doing anything except taking orders from Sabine, and Sabine's taking orders from the IFCC. Nale's a sock puppet, nothing more.

[ti'esar]

Why do you all think Nale HAS a plan? Nale's not doing anything except taking orders from Sabine, and Sabine's taking orders from the IFCC. Nale's a sock puppet, nothing more.

Nale thinks he's his own man, though (and he isn't exactly taking direct orders from Sabine). So obviously he has a plan of his own. And for that matter, the IFCC, from what we know, has no real plan for Nale except using him to stir up chaos, so I'm not sure what they have to do with it either.

[Math_Mage]

Why do you all think Nale HAS a plan? Nale's not doing anything except taking orders from Sabine, and Sabine's taking orders from the IFCC. Nale's a sock puppet, nothing more.

Nale doesn't take orders from Sabine--she's the one who always asks HIM what they're doing next. And Sabine doesn't take orders from the IFCC anymore, per her conversation with Qarr. So, I really have no idea where you got this from.

[Forikroder]

And yet, V never even met Pompey. And Sabine didn't fight Haley in Cliffport. And the Thog vs. Roy/Haley battle in Cliffport was irrelevant to his plan. And his first plan involved monsters fighting for him. And Yukyuk was trying to kill V, not Belkar...

okay its not quite like that then how about

"find whoever you can find first and kill him" would be more accurate but in general it is more often then not the evil opposite VS the... good opposite

There was no frontal assault plan in the second confrontation. There was a diversion that served as cover for Nale to frame Elan and take his place, following weeks of serial murder as a setup, and an overly complicated kidnapping as setup for the diversion.

and as soon as the OoTS were in cliffport it became a free for all where every member of the LG fought whoever they found first

Nale only has half decent plans up to the point where they actually meet there enemy then its just "do whatever you want"

[Math_Mage]

and as soon as the OoTS were in cliffport it became a free for all where every member of the LG fought whoever they found first

Uh huh.

[skaddix]

Nale is trying to stay alive. Although I am not sure Nale understands just how powerful Team Evil is in comparison to himself.

[BaronOfHell]

Nale has no idea of the timing involved for Team Evil. That's a pie-in-the-sky plan if I ever heard one.

I don't know for sure, but I think Nale is genre savy enough to realise if it comes to a point where T have conquered the gate, team Evil is bound to show up no matter what. So timing would never be a problem.

Though I didn't think about it, I like the suggested idea that maybe Nale didn't think he could take over a gate and in stead he used himself as bait. Made T think he was after something big (which is genuinely big) and thereby put a big "target me" on T.

The way it's proceeded so far though does not lent much credit to the idea, unless Nale has a lot lot lot lot more insight than what I give him credit for.

[Euodiachloris]

To be honest, I think Nale's plans right now are "don't get myself killed by Malack and show Dad up".

If he has any convoluted, longer-term plans, they're draughted in pencil, not inked, let alone coloured, at this point.

The one smart move he might try would actually be to *gasp* work with the Order. Never going to happen, as it seems Dad might be doing that, first. Maybe.

And, I think he'd rather be strangled by Malack than work with Elan.

[Killer Angel]

Nale doesn't take orders from Sabine--she's the one who always asks HIM what they're doing next. And Sabine doesn't take orders from the IFCC anymore, per her conversation with Qarr. So, I really have no idea where you got this from.

Uh... from here?
The actual situation (and the degree's control) may be uncertain, but it started with Nale & C. as pawns to the IFCC.

[Math_Mage]

Uh... from here?
The actual situation (and the degree's control) may be uncertain, but it started with Nale & C. as pawns to the IFCC.

Sabine may originally have taken orders from the IFCC, but Nale has never taken orders from Sabine. She may have SUGGESTIONS, but that's a very different arrangement that would in no way preclude Nale having plans. He's an UNKNOWING pawn, as was explicitly stated in the comic you cite. It's not like the IFCC is laying out his every move and handing instructions to him through Sabine; they're content to let him cause trouble, with an occasional nudge in the right direction.