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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    I ask, because in this comic, Elan says that armor interferes with his class abilities, but in the first comic, the upgrade gives him a chainmail shirt.

    Was it the Dashing Swordsman?

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    It was most likely the Dashing Swordsman, yes. Light armour doesn't interfere with any of the bard's abilities and he wore a chain shirt right until being imprisoned and subsequently becoming a Dashing Swordsman.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Lothston's Avatar

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It was most likely the Dashing Swordsman, yes. Light armour doesn't interfere with any of the bard's abilities and he wore a chain shirt right until being imprisoned and subsequently becoming a Dashing Swordsman.
    The chain shirt may simply be too restrictive on Dexterity and Dex-related skills. If Elan has a sky-high Dexterity - which becomes doubly important if Dashing Swordsman adds it to attack and/or damage - then even a magical chain shirt might be too restrictive, so he prefers to wear regular clothing and keep his full Dex bonus.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Doesn't the Dashing Swordsman have more to do with adding his charisma to his attack rolls? I'm not expert, but I think something along those lines was said.

    It may simply be that wearing armour is less "dramatic", after all, flair and drama are a big part of the Dashing Swordsman gimmick.

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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Dashing Swordsman is probably based on (or at least reminiscent of) the existing Duelist PRC with INT swapped for CHA and a few other alterations. Duelists may use most of their abilities only when they're not wearing armor, so that's probably why I never really questioned the fact that Elan ditched his chain shirt.
    Last edited by Agnostik; 2012-05-04 at 12:39 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    It was stated that the dashing swordsman adds charisma to damage. There still could be armour restrictions to the class. Maybe not wearing armour or light armour gives you a bonus to AC or something.

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by AutomatedTeller View Post
    Was it the Dashing Swordsman?
    Most likely. I think it would make sense for the PrC.
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    Forikroder's Avatar

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    how many heros wear armour? armour is for nameless soldiers and side kicks, all the good heros dont wear armour

    Edward Elric?
    Monkey D Luffy?
    main character in Princess Bride? (god how did i forget his name ><)
    Ichigo Kurosaki?
    Robin hood?
    Superman?
    Hulk?
    Spiderman?

    if you wear armour as a hero it has to be the most badass armour possible like Iron Man or Gatts it has to be such cool badass armour that everyone who sees it goes "woa whos the badass in that badass armour?"

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    how many heros wear armour? armour is for nameless soldiers and side kicks, all the good heros dont wear armour

    Edward Elric?
    Monkey D Luffy?
    main character in Princess Bride? (god how did i forget his name ><)
    Ichigo Kurosaki?
    Robin hood?
    Superman?
    Hulk?
    Spiderman?

    if you wear armour as a hero it has to be the most badass armour possible like Iron Man or Gatts it has to be such cool badass armour that everyone who sees it goes "woa whos the badass in that badass armour?"
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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    main character in Princess Bride? (god how did i forget his name ><)
    His name is Westley, or Dread Pirate Roberts if you prefer.

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    There are basically only four allowed looks for a Dashing Swordsman.

    The Masked Avenger
    Look: Small mask covering the eyes, but not the lower part of the face (and definitely not the obligatory pencil moustache), probably some kind of hat, wide cloth belt (black or red), wide poofy pants, knee-high boots.
    Known Masked Avengers: Dread Pirate Roberts, Zorro etc

    The Musketeer
    Look: Big cool hat (preferably with feather), thigh-high boots. Baldric. Add tabard as necessary. Otherwise swashbuckling shirt and vest (always buttoned)
    Known examples: The three musketeers, D'Artagnan, Puss-in-Boots

    The Pirate
    Look: Pirate hat, pirate longcoat, pirate boots. Swashbuckling shirt.
    Known Examples: Julio Scoundrél, Captain Jack Sparrow, Most pirates.

    The Swashbuckler (aka The Inigo Montoya)
    Look: Vest (mostly unbuttoned, can be buttoned at times but not through swashbucklers entire career), Swashbuckler shirt (preferably white), knee-high boots
    Known Examples: Elan, Inigo Montoya

    Some dashing swordsmen, like Will from Pirates of the Caribbean alternate between several of the allowed looks (in Wills case, Musketeer, Pirate and The Swashbuckler).


    P.S: Do not confuse with similar PrCs like Jedi or Samurai Sword Saint.

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonicbunny View Post
    The Swashbuckler (aka The Inigo Montoya)
    Look: Vest (mostly unbuttoned, can be buttoned at times but not through swashbucklers entire career), Swashbuckler shirt (preferably white), knee-high boots
    Known Examples: Elan, Inigo Montoya
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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No Han Solo? I am disappoint.
    Well, the list isn't exhaustive. But you know. No sword. Even if he does borrow heavily in terms of style and abilities.

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    Superman?
    Superman's skin is his armor.

    (Also there have been a few instances of Superman or an alternate version of Superman wearing armor.)

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    Murray's Avatar

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    While CHA is the primary damage modifier, I bet DEX is a lot more important with the acrobatic entrances that seem to be heavily associated with the prestige class. For all we know, a dramatic entrance boosts the Dashing Swordsman's abilities or lowers the abilities of the Dashing Swordsman's foes.

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    Forikroder's Avatar

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murray View Post
    While CHA is the primary damage modifier, I bet DEX is a lot more important with the acrobatic entrances that seem to be heavily associated with the prestige class. For all we know, a dramatic entrance boosts the Dashing Swordsman's abilities or lowers the abilities of the Dashing Swordsman's foes.
    getting a good dramatic entrance would be more about wis or cha then dex and since Elan was a bard he probably has terrible dex especially considering his terrible move silently

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    getting a good dramatic entrance would be more about wis or cha then dex and since Elan was a bard he probably has terrible dex especially considering his terrible move silently
    That's an interesting notion. With the direction his character development has been going, I've thought that Elan may have brought his WIS up high enough to eliminate negative modifiers, making him much more clever while still being INTellectually challenged. And looking at the armor stats again, unless Dashing Swordsman improves movement, there may not be any reason he can't still be wearing leather armor. So my excuse about DEX-based acrobatics may not be correct.

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyFoxfire View Post
    His name is Westley, or Dread Pirate Roberts if you prefer.
    On a related note, if it turns out that Westley wasn't the inspiration for the Dashing Swordsman class, then I will eat my hat. DISCLAIMER: I am not wearing a hat.
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Maybe it's because he already receives plot armor and looks way cooler whithout a chainshirt. Also, plot armor could be one of the abilities of the Dashing Swordsman.
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonicbunny View Post
    Well, the list isn't exhaustive. But you know. No sword. Even if he does borrow heavily in terms of style and abilities.
    Besides, he's pretty much a variant on the Swashbuckler with that vest, anyway.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    On a related note, if it turns out that Westley wasn't the inspiration for the Dashing Swordsman class, then I will eat my hat. DISCLAIMER: I am not wearing a hat.
    There have been Dashing Swordsman-alikes since a LONG time before Westley turned up--Errol Flynn's first role in "Captain Blood" (1935) was pretty much the archetype for this sort of thing!

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    There have been Dashing Swordsman-alikes since a LONG time before Westley turned up--Errol Flynn's first role in "Captain Blood" (1935) was pretty much the archetype for this sort of thing!
    very few singular heros show all the characteristics elan has demonstrated, the dashing swordsman is realyl taking parts from pretty much every hero and every thing they have in common and putting them all into one class

    i would be surprised if they did have an ability that added there Cha to there armour/resistances called plot armour though

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurenthal View Post
    Maybe it's because he already receives plot armor and looks way cooler whithout a chainshirt. Also, plot armor could be one of the abilities of the Dashing Swordsman.
    Do you even know what "plot armor" is?

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Do you even know what "plot armor" is?
    Actually, I can totally see "plot armor" as a Dashing Swordsman class feature that gives an AC bonus or something.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Actually, I can totally see "plot armor" as a Dashing Swordsman class feature that gives an AC bonus or something.
    I don't disagree that it would be a totally cool name for a Dashing Swordsman class feature and would fit a class that lives from being genre-savy, but in the end an AC bonus is not the same as the "plot armor" that some people like to throw at everything.

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Good thing too. He that lives by the plot armour dies by the sword of dramatic necessity, and will be remembered only by the continuity wraiths that haunt the foothills of narrative under the shadow of the of the mountains of authorial intent.

    It's not something you can rely on anyway. Unless the show/strip/book/movie is named after you.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    how many heros wear armour?
    Commander Shepard
    Gordon Freeman
    Aragorn
    Parson Gotti
    Balian (from Kingdom of Heaven)
    Ahmad Ibn Fadlān (from 13th Warrior)
    Almost every warrior-like protagonist in video games (too many to list)

    Generally people wear armor when it makes sense to do so. There are only few cases were armor is not worn for stylistic purposes. And those stories tend to verge on the more unserious side.
    So yes, its perfectly plausible that the Dashing Swordman has some class features that dont work well with armor.

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonicbunny View Post
    There are basically only four allowed looks for a Dashing Swordsman.

    The Masked Avenger
    Look: Small mask covering the eyes, but not the lower part of the face (and definitely not the obligatory pencil moustache), probably some kind of hat, wide cloth belt (black or red), wide poofy pants, knee-high boots.
    Known Masked Avengers: Dread Pirate Roberts, Zorro etc

    The Musketeer
    Look: Big cool hat (preferably with feather), thigh-high boots. Baldric. Add tabard as necessary. Otherwise swashbuckling shirt and vest (always buttoned)
    Known examples: The three musketeers, D'Artagnan, Puss-in-Boots

    The Pirate
    Look: Pirate hat, pirate longcoat, pirate boots. Swashbuckling shirt.
    Known Examples: Julio Scoundrél, Captain Jack Sparrow, Most pirates.

    The Swashbuckler (aka The Inigo Montoya)
    Look: Vest (mostly unbuttoned, can be buttoned at times but not through swashbucklers entire career), Swashbuckler shirt (preferably white), knee-high boots
    Known Examples: Elan, Inigo Montoya

    Some dashing swordsmen, like Will from Pirates of the Caribbean alternate between several of the allowed looks (in Wills case, Musketeer, Pirate and The Swashbuckler).


    P.S: Do not confuse with similar PrCs like Jedi or Samurai Sword Saint.
    You forgot the Errol Flynn (no mask, no boots, just a simple hat and a belt to hang a sword from... a tendency to swing from thing during battle ever present. eg Errol Flynn, Peter Pan, etc)

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    Commander Shepard
    Gordon Freeman
    Aragorn
    Parson Gotti
    Balian (from Kingdom of Heaven)
    Ahmad Ibn Fadlān (from 13th Warrior)
    Almost every warrior-like protagonist in video games (too many to list)

    Generally people wear armor when it makes sense to do so. There are only few cases were armor is not worn for stylistic purposes. And those stories tend to verge on the more unserious side.
    So yes, its perfectly plausible that the Dashing Swordman has some class features that dont work well with armor.
    know what all those people have in common? absolutely nothing with the dashing swordsman at all there are jsut generic warriors who ascend to be a hero due to being badass warriors not a hero that shows hes a badass warrior, theres a difference

    the Hero from the start has his job to do and normally leaves a normal life to do the job he takes the initiative

    the badass warrior who becomes a hero is a part of an army or organization who sends him into battle and is just following orders

    when link leaves Kokiri village to save the world thats him being a hero noone ever ordered him to do it he did it because hes a badass

    when Master Chief slaughters covenant forces, hes not doing it because hes a badass hero who saw what was wrong with the world and did his whole one man army deal he did it because he was a soldier and that was his job

    thats the difference between a badass hero and a badass who becomes a hero

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    Imp

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    Default Re: When did Elan stop being able to wear armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    Ahmad Ibn Fadlān (from 13th Warrior)
    I was beginning to think I was the only person who watched that movie. What a relief.
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