Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition - Now your playing with Playtests!

[Oracle_Hunter]

Well, a quick read-through raises some questions, but mostly I'm glad that:

(1) It is elegant
(2) 3.Xers seem to like it
(3) WotC finally discovered the "fluid movement" school of combat moves

EDIT: Ability Scores as Saves. Good, but not quite what I thought it would be. By making all ability scores (theoretically) relevant to play you have less incentive to min/max on ability scores. This should lead to greater diversity of stat allocation which, IMHO, is a more interesting way to go.

[Scowling Dragon]

I said I didn't like anything I read. That's not being aggressive, that's stating my feelings.

I was just being general.

The Fighter, compared to ALL three of the other classes literally reads as if it is mentally deficient. Retarded is pretty fitting.

I would say that its too little of a slight.

Training was fine. And less messy.

I disagree. Training was way too simple, dumbed down and didn't actualy address the problem of at high levels skills being useless.

[EatAtEmrakuls]

I was just being general.


I would say that its too little of a slight.



I disagree. Training was way too simple, dumbed down and didn't actualy address the problem of at high levels skills being useless.

High level skills were never useless in my games. Only Arcana became trivialized due to a poorly thought-out epic destiny.

On conditions, they all seem very bleh. None of them really stand out, and some, like intoxicated, are just plain messy. Rolling 1d6 every time you take damage for reduction? That's a pain, and unnecessary.

Really these rules don't seem very streamlined at all compared to 4es approach. Maybe compared to 3.5s rules, yeah.

EDIT: And why doesn't blinded grant advantage when you're attacking the blind target?

[Textor44]

I don't like how they've taken away skills. It's a BIG step back.

I don't think they have. They've stated repeatedly that they are looking carefully at the skills system-- I'm thinking they haven't taken skills away, I think they simply haven't implemented them yet.

[Katana_Geldar]

I'd be happy if they made skills similar to SW Saga, make it scaleable to class, opportunity to train in more and the DCs didn't scale with level.

Have they taken away the last part?

[Scowling Dragon]

Oh yes. 4e Streamlined things way too much.

Again I disagree on skills. Jump becomes useless due to flying opponents and flight spells ect.

[EatAtEmrakuls]

Oh yes. 4e Streamlined things way too much.

Again I disagree on skills. Jump becomes useless due to flying opponents and flight spells ect.

Jump's useless now, in this play-test. At least, as your level went up, your jump length improved over time.

[Conundrum]

I don't think they have. They've stated repeatedly that they are looking carefully at the skills system-- I'm thinking they haven't taken skills away, I think they simply haven't implemented them yet.

This is the impression I got, too. The character sheets do say "Play without Backgrounds and Themes for a more old-school feel", implying that there is a character-creation method for boosting skills apart from the "+3 to four skills" that the backgrounds seem to give.

[Scowling Dragon]

It improved too little and never reached epic status (as in leap over buildings epic).

[J.Gellert]

I don't think they have. They've stated repeatedly that they are looking carefully at the skills system-- I'm thinking they haven't taken skills away, I think they simply haven't implemented them yet.

Exactly; at this point, it's a lot safer to talk about how things we see, than things we can't see.

[Yora]

..This is a sentiment I do not understand in the slightest.

3.5 already exists. It has more years of source material backing it.

Why would you ever want a new edition to resemble it almost exactly, even if you did like the prior version? You could easily houserule 3.5 at this point and it would be identical to this playtest.

Sure, but that would be messy with all the notes. Having it as a book is neater.

[Ziegander]

Ability Scores as Saves. Good, but not quite what I thought it would be. By making all ability scores (theoretically) relevant to play you have less incentive to min/max on ability scores. This should lead to greater diversity of stat allocation which, IMHO, is a more interesting way to go.

It's seriously going to make gameplay almost impossible without a daunting amount of effort on the part of the DM or without running pregenerating modules (which assumes that the module designers even know that there is a problem and try to mitigate it). Why? Because if save-or-dies and save-or-get-f***ed effects can target all six of the ability scores, then at nearly every turn at least one member of the party WILL face a monster that can severely screw that member over. That is, as I mentioned earlier, unless the DM (or module designer) goes to great lengths to pit his party against monsters that ONLY have attacks that target the party's strengths (which will be highly variable and thus almost impossible to do).

[Scowling Dragon]

Again, in the whole playtest we have seen only 1 save or die effect and even its by-passable.

[Craft (Cheese)]

I do wonder what happened to hit point thresholds though...

[Yora]

What do you mean by that?

[Bayonet Priest]

This is the impression I got, too. The character sheets do say "Play without Backgrounds and Themes for a more old-school feel", implying that there is a character-creation method for boosting skills apart from the "+3 to four skills" that the backgrounds seem to give.

Maybe but I always thought that "old school" often meant no skills period except for rogues, that is what dumping backgrounds would do here.

It's seriously going to make gameplay almost impossible without a daunting amount of effort on the part of the DM or without running pregenerating modules (which assumes that the module designers even know that there is a problem and try to mitigate it). Why? Because if save-or-dies and save-or-get-f***ed effects can target all six of the ability scores, then at nearly every turn at least one member of the party WILL face a monster that can severely screw that member over. That is, as I mentioned earlier, unless the DM (or module designer) goes to great lengths to pit his party against monsters that ONLY have attacks that target the party's strengths (which will be highly variable and thus almost impossible to do).

I don't know. What if most effects just target Dex, Con, and Wis anyway? Then it's the same as it ever was. I've only skimmed the materials so far but I don't think I saw any saves targeted against anything else except for one that targeted Cha.

[Craft (Cheese)]

I do wonder what happened to hit point thresholds though...

[Scots Dragon]

This is the game that created the Tome of Horrors. If you *can't* get screwed over in one of many major areas, the game isn't working properly.

[Oracle_Hunter]

It's seriously going to make gameplay almost impossible without a daunting amount of effort on the part of the DM or without running pregenerating modules (which assumes that the module designers even know that there is a problem and try to mitigate it). Why? Because if save-or-dies and save-or-get-f***ed effects can target all six of the ability scores, then at nearly every turn at least one member of the party WILL face a monster that can severely screw that member over. That is, as I mentioned earlier, unless the DM (or module designer) goes to great lengths to pit his party against monsters that ONLY have attacks that target the party's strengths (which will be highly variable and thus almost impossible to do).

...or the DM doesn't use those abilities unless he actually wants to kill a PC that adventure.

IMHO, SoS/D are a sometimes food

[Bayonet Priest]

I do wonder what happened to hit point thresholds though...

Sleep had one. Creatures above 10 hp get drowsy and get there speeds halved. Creatures 10 hp or below have to make a Wisdom save or fall unconcious until someone wakes them.

[Seerow]

I'm still having trouble accessing the material. The email link I got was broken, and the blog that was referenced upthread seems to have had its material removed (at least the rapidshare link in the blog was broken).

[Ziegander]

Again, in the whole playtest we have seen only 1 save or die effect and even its by-passable.

I am not optimistic that this is a trend that will continue. Do you honestly believe that most monsters will just attack against AC or have abilities that are "easily" bypassed? Even if you did believe that, does that even sound like an interesting game to play?

What if most effects just target Dex, Con, and Wis anyway? Then it's the same as it ever was. I've only skimmed the materials so far but I don't think I saw any saves targeted against anything else except for one that targeted Cha.

If that is the case, then what the heck is the point of using ability scores as saving throws?

[Craft (Cheese)]

Sleep had one. Creatures above 10 hp get drowsy and get there speeds halved. Creatures 10 hp or below have to make a Wisdom save or fall unconcious until someone wakes them.

Ah, I missed that, thanks. Though still, I thought the medusa's gaze was one of the specific examples of something that would have a hit point threshold?


Also... why is the pregen fighter using chainmail instead of a chain shirt? Same result, but it'd save him 25 GP.

[EatAtEmrakuls]

On wealth and items:

Electrum pieces are useless. Being worth half of one gold piece is pointless, and will never see use.

The point about Ring Mail vs. Studded Leather stands. Most armor is, frankly, pointless, but Ring Mail takes the cake in that category. Chain Mail is close to useless, especially since it seems every stat matters now.

Removing heavy armor: Why is a die roll necessary there?

Ladders/Ten-Foot Poles: .... Now I'm convinced they're trolling us.

Healer's Kits seemed hairbrained, I foresee houseruling them as unnecessary to spend healing surges...I'm sorry..."hit dice" in between encounters.

[Scowling Dragon]

I like the healers kit. Makes more sense at least.

[EatAtEmrakuls]

I like the healers kit. Makes more sense at least.

We're already treating hit points as abstract, so why are we utilizing a medical kit as the only ability to regain hit points aside from magic?

Why is catching your breath for 10 minutes any less realistic than herbs and band-aids after being skewered by a spear?

We aren't even achieving verisimilitude at this point.

[Bayonet Priest]

If that is the case, then what the heck is the point of using ability scores as saving throws?

Well it offers a more unified mechanic and cuts out one step of figuring saving throws.

Ah, I missed that, thanks. Though still, I thought the medusa's gaze was one of the specific examples of something that would have a hit point threshold?


Also... why is the pregen fighter using chainmail instead of a chain shirt? Same result, but it'd save him 25 GP.

Yeah the armor seems out of wack, hell if the rogue spent even close to as much on armor as the fighter did he'd have a chain shirt and be sitting pretty at 17 AC compared to the fighter's 15.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Ladders/Ten-Foot Poles: .... Now I'm convinced they're trolling us.

HA! I mostly skipped over the adventuring gear table. I can't believe they made that mistake again.

Anyway, I'll try to get a playtest run, but I'm not excited for it. There's just nothing that grabs me and says "Hey you! Play this!"

[bokodasu]

Yay, change of plans, I get to look at it now! Printing right now, but pardon me for just a moment, I just realized what the included adventure is.

SQUEEEEEEEEE!

Ahem. Now I will go and formally analyze this product based on its quantifiable merits, giving it the sober and thoughtful consideration it deserves.

Squee!

[Yora]

Caves of Chaos is a bad module!

"And you should feel bad!"

But yeah, it's all not that exiting right now. It's like "Here are my house rules, do you think they are okay?" To which I say "yeah, looks fine to me."