'Shrooms & Squids (3.5, two races, PEACHes please)

[Baphomet]

Two races that might need tweaking here. They need LA, too, but I am not sure how much--my initial reaction is +2, +1, but I'm probably underestimating. These are currently in use in a comic project but it would be neat to have them be adaptable to an actual game.

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Myconad
Medium Plant
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, +4 Charisma
Move speed: 30 ft.
Abilities:Low-light vision, Darkvision 60 ft.
Plant traits (Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, polymorphing, critical hits, and mind-affecting effects)
For all effects and requirements related to type, a Myconad is considered a Fey creature and a plant creature.
Natural armor: +2
Skills: +4 racial bonus to bluff and sense motive, and +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently. +8 bonus to disguise checks, but only when trying to disguise as another Myconad, a Dryad, or a Myconid.
spell-like abilities: at-will- speak with plants, tree shape (form of a large mushroom); 3/day- entangle, charm person; 1/day- suggestion. Save DCs are charisma-based, CL 4th.
Automatic languages: Sylvan, Undercommon. Bonus languages: Common, Elven, Terran
Favored class: Druid or Rogue
Alignment: Usually Neutral
level adjustment: +2

These mushroom-based humanoid creatures are the result of interbreeding between myconids and any number of plant-based Fey creatures, usually dryads. They span a great range of shapes and sizes, but are usually between 4 and 7 feet, with the average being about 5. Their colors also vary, and most seem to share some visual similarity with another species of mushroom. The most common varieties are blue-grey, tan, or red with white freckles. The combination of bodies made primarily of plant material (actually fungus, but Fey magic doesn't distinguish) and the Fey's magical affinity for plants grants them some degree of control over their own appearance, but not enough to completely disguise their heritage.

Myconads generally tend to favor honesty to a fault. They are quick to trust those that are honest with them, and quick to shun those that lie. They often form strong connections with those they know to be trustworthy in the long term. Oddly, most do not hold themselves to the same standards.

Myconads, like other fungi, do not require sunlight to live, and are usually found underground living amongst communities of other creatures. Often, they cultivate a small garden of other fungi or somehow otherwise "personalize" a specific area. Some may grow attached to this area in the way that a dryad becomes attached to a specific tree, and defend this area from creatures that it does not trust in the same way a dryad defends its forest from attackers. However, this attachment is purely mental, and does not limit the Myconad's ability to travel.

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Undine
Medium Outsider (extraplanar, water)
Undines have 4 outsider racial hit dice, granting them 3d8+8+(4*Con bonus) HP, 2 feats, 7*(8+Int bonus) skill points, +4 BAB, and +4 fort, will, and reflex saves.
+4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma
Move speed: 20 ft., swim 60 ft.
Abilities: Aquatic Adaptation, vulnerability to fire, moist skin, Spellcasting Affinity
Ousider traits (60-ft darkvision, cannot be raised or resurrected except by limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection)
Natural armor: +4
Skills: +4 spellcraft, +4 knowledge (arcana), Use Magic Device +4, +8 swim (can always take 10 on a swim check)
Spell-like abilities: at-will- create water
Automatic languages: Aquan, Common, Draconic; Bonus languages: any
Favored class: Wizard
Alignment: Usually Lawful Evil
Level adjustment: +0
Aquatic Adaptation: while immersed at least halfway in water, an Undine gains blindsight 200 ft. (seeing inside the water only), and the ability to use detect magic and read magic at-will (only on objects that are in the water as well)
Moist skin: Most armor or clothing leeches moisture from an Undine's skin, causing irritation and a -4 penalty on all saves, skill checks, and attacks. Most Undines wear clothing specially designed for their skin, but which confers no defensive bonus.
Spellcasting affinity: An Undine knows and can prepare and cast spells as a 4th level Wizard. The first time an Undine gains a level in an arcane spellcasting class, he may choose to lose this bonus. If he does so, he instead knows and can cast spells as a character in that class four levels higher than their class level. These levels stack with the Undine's base spellcasting ability for spells known, spells per day, and other effects dependent on caster level. Undines have a natural knack for memorizing spells, and need not add spells of 2nd level or lower to their spellbook (though they still must learn and prepare spells as normal).

Natives of the Elemental Plane of Water, Undines devote their lives to one cause or hobby, usually study and practice of the arcane arts. Their obsessive natures often leave them withdrawn and reclusive, and they typically shun the company of other creatures, seeing them as little more than distractions or obstacles to solitary study. Most dwell within a massive spherical coral palace ruled over by an Undine lich king. Many Undines who become adventurers do so in order to further his wealth of knowledge "in the field", and often are tasked with retrieving live specimens for vivisection and study.

The Undine lich king does not demand or compel the service of the other inhabitants of the coral palace, and his library and palace are open to all with a desire to study (though many decline as they find his practices unsavory). However, most Undines would carry out his will voluntarily, simply to add to the wealth of knowledge that the lich king has amassed over the centuries. Undines who leave the elemental plane of water voluntarily do so through the coral palace's series of unique stable portals, giving them an immunity to banishment effects.

Physically, their upper halves are mostly humanoid, but they sport six long tentacles instead of legs, arranged radially around their hips. These tentacles are not particularly strong or dexterous, and are mainly used for propulsion in water. They also have thick chitinous plates that extend along their backs, arms, and the upper portions of their tentacles. Their coloration varies from light blue to gray to pink, with typically pearlescent plating. They have hair that is normally orange, white, or green, and have black eyes with horizontal slit-like pupils.

[Baphomet]

Daaang, what's a guy gotta do to get some peaches around here?

[Grinner]

Well, some formatting would be nice. Presentation is key, after all.

Edit: Here's a start. Quote my post and copy the contents.

Myconad
Medium Fey
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, +4 Charisma
Move speed: 30 ft.
Low-light vision, Darkvision 60 ft.
While Myconads count as Fey, they have plant traits rather than Fey traits (so, for example, druids of 4th level or higher gain a +4 bonus against their SLAs, but a cleric with the plant domain could not turn or rebuke them).
Abilities: Plant traits (Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, polymorphing, critical hits, and mind-affecting effects)
natural armor +2
Skills: +4 racial bonus to bluff and sense motive, and +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently. +10 bonus to disguise checks, but only when trying to disguise as another Myconad, a Dryad, or a Myconid.
Spell-like Abilities: at-will- speak with plants, tree shape (form of a large mushroom); 3/day- entangle, charm person; 1/day- suggestion. Save DCs are charisma-based, CL 4th.
Automatic languages: Sylvan, Undercommon. Bonus languages: Common, Elven, Terran
Favored class: Druid or Rogue
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Level Adjustment: ?

These mushroom-based humanoid creatures are the result of interbreeding between myconids and any number of plant-based Fey creatures, usually dryads. They span a great range of shapes and sizes, but are usually between 4 and 7 feet, with the average being about 5. Their colors also vary, and most seem to share some visual similarity with another species of mushroom. The most common varieties are blue-grey, tan, or red with white freckles. The combination of bodies made primarily of plant material (actually fungus, but Fey magic doesn't distinguish) and the Fey's magical affinity for plants grants them some degree of control over their own appearance, but not enough to completely disguise their heritage.

Myconads generally tend to favor honesty to a fault. They are quick to trust those that are honest with them, and quick to shun those that lie. They often form strong connections with those they know to be trustworthy in the long term. Oddly, most do not hold themselves to the same standards.

Myconads, like other fungi, do not require sunlight to live, and are usually found underground living amongst communities of other creatures. Often, they cultivate a small garden of other fungi or somehow otherwise "personalize" a specific area. Some may grow attached to this area in the way that a dryad becomes attached to a specific tree, and defend this area from creatures that it does not trust in the same way a dryad defends its forest from attackers. However, this attachment is purely mental, and does not limit the Myconad's ability to travel.

[Baphomet]

Hrm. I guess I have to bump this again.

[Debihuman]

Myconads are terribly overpowered as a PC race. They probably have LA +4 making them very difficult to play.

Neither Plants nor Fey usually have Darkvision so perhaps you should leave the myconads with just low-light vision.

Also, why shouldn't clerics with the Plant domain be able to rebuke them? If you are going to give a creature all the benefits of benefits of the plant traits, you also should give them the drawbacks as well. It goes with the territory.

They have too many immunities and SLAs to be playable.

Changes I highly recommend you make:

• I recommend giving them a +2 racial bonus to saves against poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, polymorphing, critical hits, and mind-affecting effects rather than outright immunities. This acknowledges their plant ancestry but is less overpowering. This still is worth LA +1
  
• The racial bonus to Disguise to pretend to be a Myconid, Dryad or another Myconad should be +8 not +10.
  
• Giving them 3 good stats and one is +4 with no penalties is asking for +1 LA right there I recommend that they have +2 Wisdom and -2 Intelligence. They are too darn trustworthy for their own good, showing a lack of judgment.
  
• Since these are virtually guaranteed to be druids, giving them so many SLAs that stack with their druid spells is overpowered. Giving them just one At Will SLA and one 3/day SLA is sufficient. 1/day--speak with plants;3/day-- tree shape (form only as Large mushroom). CL 3. [that's 9 hours of tree shape a day instead of 12]. Most PC races do not have any SLAs unless they also have LA. This is a matter of balance more than anything else.
  
• PCs should have only one favored race. In this case, it should be Druid.

I'd have to see these written up again to judge appropriate LA.

Debby

[arguskos]

Myconads appear to be a +2. They're not really that amazing, since their SLAs are pretty meh (oooh, tree shape ). Good stat line though. I dislike the half and half typing. Make them plants and give them "Fey Blood", which functions like the Human Blood ability, etc.

Squiddys are fine at +0, thanks to those 4 RHD. If you absolutely MUST give them an LA, make it +1 at most.

[Debihuman]

Undines are probably fine, maybe LA +1 but they make for a lousy PC race. Once you start with racial Hit Dice and an evil alignment, I stop think thinking of them as a race and start thinking of them like a monster. PCs are supposed to the be the heroes not the villains.

Debby

[Answerer]

The Myconad seem like LA +2. The ability score bonuses are pretty high, and they get a lot of nice immunities. I'm... just not sure that LA +2 is going to be worth it outside of a high-level game with buy-off, or a gestalt game. Even though the abilities are pretty good, it just doesn't compare with losing two levels of progression.

For the Undine, first thing I thought of was GENZOMAN's Cecaelia:

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Which is awesome.

Anyway, they seem... problematic. 4 RHD, even Outsider RHD which are pretty good, is pretty miserable for anyone attempting to follow any sort of progression, particularly spellcasting which their description says they focus on.

Their ability scores are pretty bad, too, and their racial features are really minor. Swim speed, eh, whatever. Aquatic Adaptation is minor, and Moist Skin is actually a drawback.

Also, I think you might have some misconceptions about what the Native and Extraplanar subtypes mean. Just because there are stable portals from the palace to wherever does not mean they're native to that plane; they would still be extraplanar.

Anyway, I think you should reduce their RHD, improve their racial features, or both. Their LA, as it stands, should be +0, but even then they're still a really weak race.

[Baphomet]

Also, I think you might have some misconceptions about what the Native and Extraplanar subtypes mean. Just because there are stable portals from the palace to wherever does not mean they're native to that plane; they would still be extraplanar.

Oh, that may be the case. My intention when writing that was to just basically say "On the material plane, you can't banish things that come through these portals back to the EPoW, and on the EPoW you can't banish something that comes through these portals back to the material plane". The portals are basically just sitting there in pools on the material plane. They are pushing out a steady stream of water, and anyone that can deal with the current can freely swim through them in either direction. The world would flood if it were possible for the setting to have an ocean, but I won't get into that. How should I say that better?

Making Myconads plants with some kind of fey bloodline does make more sense. I'm confused in general where to draw the line there; dryads appear to be made entirely of wood but they're fey, treants have similar composition but are plants, myconids are fungi but still count as plants, etc. However, I'm confused about what you mean by the "fey blood" thing. What book is that from? I'm slapping on a "counts as having the fey heritage feat in terms of prerequisites" (in lieu of actually giving them the feat, a +3 against enchantments is redundant when they're already immune) unless I find a more elegant way to pull that off.

There's a comic thing that goes along with both of these guys, so a minor concern is not having anything in the stats that contradicts stuff seen in the comics. So far the only things I can think of are that the myconad can use suggestion once a day as a racial, is immune to mind-affecting things, and can see in the dark. The darkvision made sense to me for a race whose habitat is primarily subterranean, and I was assuming straight myconids had it as well for the same reasons, but on further inspection that seems to not be the case. Oops. I agree that the SLAs are mediocre (I intended them to be so), but once I slapped suggestion on there I felt obligated to continue with the dryad's fairly sizeable list of them and slap on a couple more. How far away is it as it stands now from being LA 1 or LA 3?

As for the Undines, what I'm hearing is that they're pretty weak for what they are. What if I took away one or two of the racial HD and gave them some automatic levels in wizard? Or possibly some spell slots and the ability to count as having a level or two in a spellcasting class of their choice at first class level plus an equal amount of LA; is there any precedence for that sort of thing? And yes, they are intended to generally be antagonistic forces, but there are exceptions to the "usually lawful evil" thing; the one in the image is a very misguided chaotic good.

In terms of things that have to be there for comic consistency, the only thing that comes to mind is the "can't wear normal armor or clothes" thing.

[Answerer]

Oh, that may be the case. My intention when writing that was to just basically say "On the material plane, you can't banish things that come through these portals back to the EPoW, and on the EPoW you can't banish something that comes through these portals back to the material plane". The portals are basically just sitting there in pools on the material plane. They are pushing out a steady stream of water, and anyone that can deal with the current can freely swim through them in either direction. The world would flood if it were possible for the setting to have an ocean, but I won't get into that. How should I say that better?

Well, then, you could say that creatures native to the EPoW are also native to the Material plane, and vice versa, but I think it would be easier to just have the EPoW count as a part of the Material Plane in general, albeit one disconnected from the rest of the Material Plane.

Making Myconads plants with some kind of fey bloodline does make more sense. I'm confused in general where to draw the line there; dryads appear to be made entirely of wood but they're fey, treants have similar composition but are plants, myconids are fungi but still count as plants, etc. However, I'm confused about what you mean by the "fey blood" thing. What book is that from? I'm slapping on a "counts as having the fey heritage feat in terms of prerequisites" (in lieu of actually giving them the feat, a +3 against enchantments is redundant when they're already immune) unless I find a more elegant way to pull that off.

I'd use Plant type (since those are the traits they actually have), and yes, a Fey Blood thing a la the Half-Elves Elven Blood feature or the Half-Orcs Orc Blood feature (e.g. "Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf," so "Fey Blood: For all effects and requirements related to type, a myconad is considered a fey creature and a planet creature." Or something. Maybe specify "whichever is most beneficial.")

There's a comic thing that goes along with both of these guys, so a minor concern is not having anything in the stats that contradicts stuff seen in the comics. So far the only things I can think of are that the myconad can use suggestion once a day as a racial, is immune to mind-affecting things, and can see in the dark. The darkvision made sense to me for a race whose habitat is primarily subterranean, and I was assuming straight myconids had it as well for the same reasons, but on further inspection that seems to not be the case. Oops. I agree that the SLAs are mediocre (I intended them to be so), but once I slapped suggestion on there I felt obligated to continue with the dryad's fairly sizeable list of them and slap on a couple more. How far away is it as it stands now from being LA 1 or LA 3?

The Myconads are probably fine with LA +2... is there a reason you want LA +1 or +3 specifically? Darkvision does make sense (all Plants, by the way, have Low-Light Vision), and frankly LLS/DV are just not major balance concerns.

Between the ability scores, the substantial Plant immunities, and Suggestion 1/day, they're probably not really valid as LA +1. LA +3 is edging into the "untenable" category as far as I'm concerned.

As for the Undines, what I'm hearing is that they're pretty weak for what they are. What if I took away one or two of the racial HD and gave them some automatic levels in wizard? Or possibly some spell slots and the ability to count as having a level or two in a spellcasting class of their choice at first class level plus an equal amount of LA; is there any precedence for that sort of thing?

There are! Most Dragons, for instance, cast spells as a Sorcerer of some level would. You could easily give the Undine the ability to cast spells as a Wizard... honestly, as a Wizard 4 would. I'd probably ditch the Fast Healing 5 in that case (Fast Healing is often inappropriate for PCs anyway, for whatever that's worth), but with Fast Healing 5 they're still not really worth a spellcasting level.

Defense of the full-casting: The +4 Int helps a lot, and the -4 Cha doesn't hurt as much (though Cha is not a bad ability to use as a Wizard), but frankly if I compare an Undine Wizard 1 to a Human Wizard 5, two feats are an awful lot better than +4 Int in my opinion. You'd also get the benefit of a lot more skill points and better HD since Outsider RHD are pretty good, and the skill bonuses, swim speed, and the freebie Detect and Read Magic, but whatever; I'd probably still want the feats. And I definitely would want the feats and full spellcasting progression over all those things and a lost spellcasting level...

And yes, they are intended to generally be antagonistic forces, but there are exceptions to the "usually lawful evil" thing; the one in the image is a very misguided chaotic good.

Even "always {alignment X}" doesn't actually mean "always" in D&D; IIRC one of the books even says "always" means "more than 99%" which still leaves up to 1% of the population straying away from that.

In terms of things that have to be there for comic consistency, the only thing that comes to mind is the "can't wear normal armor or clothes" thing.

That's a really minor thing; it's a drawback but not a major one most of the time.

[Baphomet]

The resistance to banishment is a property of the portals, not of the creatures or the planar cosmology, so I'll just label it as such.

You're right, that myconad type thing sounds better. I can't think of any situations where someone would have to make a choice, and I'm afraid players might abuse any "whichever is most beneficial" line to mean they're immune to things that specifically target fey and things that specifically target plants.

I didn't mean I wanted the LA to be 1 or 3, I was just trying to gauge whether it was high or low for a 2.

The concern I had with the way dragons have their spellcasting set up is that if they then took levels in sorcerer, unless I'm misunderstanding, they'd still be a sorcerer 1. Dragons gain spells as they advance separately, they're not really set up to gain character levels. Likewise, even if I add the spells of a level X wizard, wouldn't they still be a wizard 1 when they start? And there are other arcane spellcasting classes...I was looking more for a solution like "they count as having X levels in an arcane spellcasting class of their choice at level 1 and have the spells known of a member of that class at that level" but I really don't see any way to make that work, or any way to justify doing that over just dropping some of the racial HD and letting them take the levels themselves.

I also have to deal with the spellbook issue; obviously they're not born with a spellbook in their hands. I could do something where they know the spells of a sorcerer but base it on int instead of cha, or I could do what I have written where they don't actually have to write down spells below third level. I'm not sure which of those is more elegant, or how to solve the wizard levels problem, but in either case don't you think with the extra skills and BAB and HP and natural armor and stuff they should count as wizard level 3 at max?

A third solution would just be to leave it as is, and then they'd take their first level in wizard and forever have some bonus 0th-2nd level spells but still be 4 levels behind in the class progression.

[Answerer]

Hmm... I'm not quite certain of strict RAW on Dragons, but I've always assumed that their Sorcerer spellcasting stacks with Sorcerer class levels and/or PrCs that advance (arcane) spellcasting. That was my intention, at any rate. The idea is to allow the Undine to have options that are level-appropriate after they already have their RHD. Starting out with 1st-level Wizard spellcasting at ECL 5 does not inspire much confidence in their spellcasting ability for me.

At any rate, I don't think a static array of SLAs can be balanced against being 4 spellcasting levels behind. Either the SLAs are way too good for level 5, or useless by level 10-ish. You could do some weird HD-scaling thing I guess, but that just strikes me as awkward and more work than it's worth.

You could give them the equivalent of the Eidetic Wizard ACF, perhaps, to deal with the spellbook thing. Or they could have the (usually fairly minor) benefit of "knowing" certain spells so well they can prepare them without a spellbook (a la Read Magic, or the Innate Spell feat), while still having Wizard-esque casting. Assuming that's what you want. An Intelligence-based Sorcerer could also work (note that the Beguiler has almost-Sorcerer spellcasting that is already Int-based, if you want).

[Baphomet]

Okay, I made some revisions to the way Undine spellcasting works. So now, they will still be 4 levels behind in class features, but up to par in spells known. I'm not sure how the way I've phrased it will interact with PrCs that grant +1 level of existing spellcasting class, though. Another side effect is that there's no point in them going straight wizard beyond level 16, as they won't be gaining any additional spells. But at that point, they'd be ECL 20 anyway, so that makes sense. Does this solution work? I've got a feeling there's some way to exploit this terribly, but I am not sure what it is yet.

EDIT: I just happened to run across the proper way to phrase the spellcasting thing, from the Rakshasa entry. I tweaked its phrasing a bit to allow it to work for any arcane spellcasting class, but this should be more correct than how I had it.